Magic field names

[Zeropoint]

It seems common to take "magic with foo as the subject" and call it "<Greek for 'foo'>mancy" (if you'll pardon the use of metasyntactic variables). For example, magic dealing with death gets called "necromancy". However, the -mancy suffix originally referred specifically to divination: necromancy = divination by consulting the dead, cartomancy = divination with cards, etc.

Does anyone know what the "properly" derived term for "magic relating to foo" would be? Or is this a case where there isn't one, and whatever is commonly used is correct?

I'm just wondering.

Zeropoint

[KA.]

It seems common to take "magic with foo as the subject" and call it "<Greek for 'foo'>mancy" (if you'll pardon the use of metasyntactic variables). For example, magic dealing with death gets called "necromancy". However, the -mancy suffix originally referred specifically to divination: necromancy = divination by consulting the dead, cartomancy = divination with cards, etc.

Does anyone know what the "properly" derived term for "magic relating to foo" would be? Or is this a case where there isn't one, and whatever is commonly used is correct?

I'm just wondering.

Zeropoint

Zeropoint,
Let me begin by saying that I know nothing about "magic" in the manner of people who actually believe in it, so I don't want to offend anyone who does.
That being said, let me stick my nose in and try to help.;)
You could go with -urgy
From Dictionary.com
-urgy
suffix

Technique or process for working with. ex: zymurgy.

The word thaumaturgy means "The working of miracles or magic feats."

However, if you are just looking for something reasonable, as opposed to textbook correctness, I think this would suffice. It also seems like if you end up with two vowels stuck together, you put a "t" in between them.

So, by our new standard,
Necromancy is divination that involves the dead.
Necroturgy is a technique or process for working with the dead (in the magical sense, or course, not what an undertaker does ;) )

Well, there you go.

I am sure you could have pulled something just as good out of your own hat, but, for what it's worth, that is what I came up with.

KA.

[AlHazred]

I think the ancients who first started using the words in English were pretty fearful and didn't want to make out like they knew more than they actually did. )("Wait, you called it foomancy! The Inquisitors will want to know where you learned of the powers of the foo!") Necromancy has a certain cachet because it was an activity that seemed particularly gruesome, but it wasn't a "field" of magic as I think you mean the term. Rather, it was a form of activity you could perform inside of your particular field of magic. So, witches and voudoun both practice necromancy, but they do it in remarkably different ways.

Really, the practitioners of foomancy, or better yet the chroniclers of the persecution of the practitioners of foomancy, will get to name it for posterity. Sadly enough.

[Curufea]

So, by our new standard,
Necromancy is divination that involves the dead.
Necroturgy is a technique or process for working with the dead (in the magical sense, or course, not what an undertaker does ;) )

KA.

There is an often mistaken belief that necro- means dead. It doesn't. It means "to be killed violently, to be murdered". From the root form "Neco"

neco : to kill, slay, put to death.
(from http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Latin/ )

Necromancy is divination through killing. You could easily see the Roman rituals of divination would be classed as necromancy - they investigated the guts of animals.

Magic dealling with death should be called Morturgy (meaning dead). Or with re-animation, Recroturgy (to revive)

[Zeropoint]

Actually, necro- comes from the Greek "nekros" meaning corpse.

Zeropoint

[Curufea]

I stand corrected :)

But am I right in assuming that -ology comes from logus beaning "book" for words that are "a study of"?

The study of magic could be thaumatology.

[Zeropoint]

Well, that's probably the best bet from a lilnguistic standpoint. That would give us fields like necrology, pyrology, demonology, etc. The only drawback I can see, and it's pretty minor, is that in many cases the appropriate combination is already going to be in use meaning the scientific study of the subject matter.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. In a world with magic, "oceanology" becomes the study of ocean-based magic, because people naturally turn to magic when they start studying things.

Hmm. This could stand further thought.

Zeropoint

[Zeropoint]

But am I right in assuming that -ology comes from logus beaning "book" for words that are "a study of"?

The study of magic could be thaumatology.

Beats me. I have to use the web to back me up on this stuff. :)

Zeropoint

[Curufea]

Science and magic are pretty much exact opposites. They both provide explanations as to why things happen, magic being the most nebulous and least understood, of course :) But then, that's what magic is...

However, steampunky type games that mix science and magic, could still use science-type classifciations. It's just that within the field you have the people more inclined to study the science side, and people more inclined to study the magic side. They may not even realise the difference. There may not even be a difference (if you look at Mage, for example - science and magic are the same thing, both just variant worldviews).

[Lightray]

For example, magic dealing with death gets called "necromancy". However, the -mancy suffix originally referred specifically to divination: necromancy = divination by consulting the dead, cartomancy = divination with cards, etc.
Of course, the whole point of most magical systems was to tell you what was going on with your life. You didn't visit your local haruspex because you wanted him to cast a fireball -- you went because you wanted to know if you'd offended the gods somehow.

(or maybe you just wanted some chicken cutlets).

So, sure, aereomancy may have started because someone was divining the future by reading the clouds and winds and weather and such. But after those basics, the magic system probably got more complex and advanced. Your local aereomancer probably spends most of her time reading the omens in the clouds, but if you forget to pay her for doing so, the winds might just blow your house down.

But, really, no one is going to know the difference between ornithomancy or orniscopy or augury. I play with a linguist, and even he rolls his eyes at me when I pull out the pedantry mojo like that.

[Lightray]

hee. While googling to check my pedantry at this site (http://skepdic.com/divinati.html) I noticed this form of divination:

urim v'tumim (reading sacred stones attached to the breastplate of the high priest in ancient Judaism)

which just cries out to be used in a game, but danged if I can figure out how...

[Curufea]

Isn't there some kind of modern religion that relied on messages being read with the aid of sacred stones (given by god to one person, then taken back immediately afterwards)?

[Houston GM]

Here are some possible fields (in addition to the ones you suggested)...

Anthromancy: Men's magics.

Cerebromancy: Mind magics.

Chromamancy: Magic based on the spiritual affiliations of colors.

Chronomancy: Time magics.

Dracomancy: Dragon magics.

Geomancy: Earth magics, or magic based on the spiritual affiliations of gems & precious stones.

Gynomancy: Women's magics.

Hedomancy: Pleasure-based magics.

Heliomancy: Sun magics.

Hydromancy: Water magics.

Lunamancy: Moon magics.

Phlebotomancy: Blood magics.

Photomancy: Light-based magics.

Technomancy: Technology-based magics.

Zoomancy: Beast magics.


Some of these magics could be broken down into subtypes. A red chromamancer and a yellow chromamancer would have drastically different powers. The same situation would apply to a jade geomancer & diamond geomancer, or a stag zoomancer & tiger zoomancer.

[Curufea]

Some of the names are a bit unimpressive though ;-p
How about Sanguinomancy for blood magic?

[Rapier]

Some of the names are a bit unimpressive though ;-p
How about Sanguinomancy for blood magic?
Flabotomancy? Magic of bodily fluids?

What about -matics? 'The Study of,' IIRC.

[Houston GM]

Some of the names are a bit unimpressive though
How about Sanguinomancy for blood magic?
If you want them to sound impressive, don't "mancy" them. Call it Blood Magic. Call it Death Magic. Call it Fire Magic.

Call it Phlebotomancy or Sanguinomancy when you're trying to tell the city watch that your not practicing forbidden arts. Really, you aren't.

[Curufea]

Forbidden depends on the setting :)
There should be a subgenre like Dark Champions, for dark fantasy settings - such as Perdido Street Station, or Sword of Truth, or Thomas Covenant, or Dark Tower.

Anyhow, back on topic - using medival spellings of things is a nice setting-enhancement for names. And if you read history, you'll discover how close magic and superstition (and religion) was to science in those days, leading to some of the interesting names for things we have today (ie doctor relating to 'leach master')

[Lightray]

Presumably, people would only be using a system of nomenclature to classify different fields of magical study in an academic setting. Professors at the Universitas Carcassone will call your magic "haimoscopy" when directing you to the correct shelves in the library.

The peasant mob, however, will be quite happy to shout "blood magic!" as they're lynching you.


There should be a subgenre like Dark Champions, for dark fantasy settings - such as Perdido Street Station, or Sword of Truth, or Thomas Covenant, or Dark Tower.
[pedant]The Thomas Covenant books, being as they are about hope and redemption, should hardly be considered "dark". Bad things happen in them, but things can get better.

And I'd call the Bas-Lur books more "gritty" than "dark".

[Curufea]

I disagree - the whole second chronicle of Thomas Covenant, the use of blood magic, the sun, and Vain are all fairly dark...
While it ends on a high note, it starts low...

[PhilFleischmann]

-mancy = divination, generally. IIRC, necromancy originally refered to speaking with the dead, i.e., gaining information from dead souls who know something, not from reading signs in dead bodies.

-ology = "to speak, law" Astrology literally means "laws of the stars" or "speaking about the stars" or perhaps "what the stars speak," to put a more mystical spin on it.

-ography = "to write" Geography = writing about the earth

-onomy = "law, proportion, division" Astronomy means "the way the stars are distributed, apportioned." This sometimes blends with:

-onymy = "names, naming" Sometimes in various languages nomy and nymy have their spelling confused, so sometimes "nom" means "name" and sometimes it means "law." For years, I thought these were the same root, but I looked it up recently and found out they aren't.

-urgy = "work" Directly related to words like "work" and "energy" Theurgy = "god working" Thaumaturgy = "miracle working"

jur = "to swear, to make an oath" like "jury" "jurisprudence" Abjure = "to swear against." Conjure = "to swear together"

voc = "to call" hence "voice" "vocal" "vocation" Invoke = "to call in." Evoke = "to call out"

-magy (magic) also makes a good suffix for magic types.

I love etymology!
:cool: :cheers: :rockon: :D :thumbup: :love: :bounce:

How 'bout "Numismomancy" for predicting the future by flipping a coin?

[Curufea]

If it's predicting lives with dice - you could call it roleplayingomancy :)

[Zeropoint]

Hey, that's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!

So, "pyromagy" would be the general study of fire magic, with "pyromancy" being divination through fire (stare into the fire and see visions among the dancing flames?), "pyrology/pyronomy" being the more theoretical side, "pyrurgy" (I don't really know how to combine these roots) being the practical side of making fire DO something, etc.

Zeropoint

[Basil]

If it's predicting lives with dice - you could call it roleplayingomancy :)

You could. ;)
Or, if you had a copy of The Insomniac's Dictionary you could check the chapter "'-Omancy' Fancy" and find out divination my dice is Astragalomancy.
:D

If folks are interested, I could give the list of the other 155 words listed, all ending in -mancy (all but 13 end in -omancy, BTW).

[Savinien]

Sword of Truth seems more of a high magic setting to me...

Besides, we already esteblish sub-genres withing Fantasy. It isn't called Dark Fantasy, but High or Low, or Sword and Sorcery.

I'm down with Phil's list, btw. That's cool.

[Greg]

Isn't there some kind of modern religion that relied on messages being read with the aid of sacred stones (given by god to one person, then taken back immediately afterwards)?

That'd be Joseph Smith with Mormonism.

[PhilFleischmann]

Hey, that's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!

So, "pyromagy" would be the general study of fire magic, with "pyromancy" being divination through fire (stare into the fire and see visions among the dancing flames?), "pyrology/pyronomy" being the more theoretical side, "pyrurgy" (I don't really know how to combine these roots) being the practical side of making fire DO something, etc.
An important disclaimer: You should realize that you're making up words now, but that's your right as a GM. After all, you're making up a whole world, nations, races, monsters, characters, gods, etc. Why not make up words too? At least they'll make more sense than some of the words they make up in that other game system. (Must...resist...temptation...to...bash... :hush: )

I made up a number of words for my FH campaign, various heraldic terms for charges and positions unique to my world.

Oh, and there's also -osophy = "knowledge, wisdom" but that might not be all that useful in this context.

[Curufea]

It's all sophistry :)

Anyhow, I find in fantasy novels - that the use of created words really helps create the world.

And if it was good enough for Shakespeare (ie quintessence) then it's good enough for me :)

I even like books that go a bit too far with made up words (ie Wormwood by Terry Dowling).

Language is representative of the culture it grows up in - if you are creating new cultures, you should create new languages...

[Zeropoint]

Yes, I realize that I am making up words. I'm just trying to make them out of pre-existing pieces, the same way we get words like "television" and "microscope".

Zeropoint

[Lightray]

Speaking of "microscope", there's also:

-oscopy = observation


As in horoscopy (observation of the hours/seasons)

[Zeropoint]

So necroscopy would be a really boring discipline, I would imagine.

Zeropoint

[Bucky]

So necroscopy would be a really boring discipline, I would imagine.

Well that kind of depends. I imagine in Haiti, it is a lot more exciting than we'd really want it to be.

[Curufea]

Not according to the Brian Lumley book :)
(called Necroscope BTW - the main character talks to the spirits of dead folk, yes, just like Sixth Sense)

[PhilFleischmann]

Yes, I realize that I am making up words. I'm just trying to make them out of pre-existing pieces, the same way we get words like "television" and "microscope".
And if you really want to be a stickler about it (stickler = pedantic nerd), you can even forbid "bastard words" like television, which was built from Greek "tele-" (far) and Latin "vision" (vision), as opposed to most historically established words that use either Greek or Latin roots, but never both.

If you really want to, you can find enough info on language rules to drive yourself completely insane! :ugly:

[Basil]

And if you really want to be a stickler about it (stickler = pedantic nerd), you can even forbid "bastard words" like television, which was built from Greek "tele-" (far) and Latin "vision" (vision), as opposed to most historically established words that use either Greek or Latin roots, but never both.Of course, we should be driving around in ipsomobiles ;)

If you really want to, you can find enough info on language rules to drive yourself completely insane! :ugly:Drive? Drive?? For some of us, it's a short stroll.

A very short stroll. :doi:

[Curufea]

Just reading Iron Council (China Mieville) and came across an interesting term-

A Sussurator : one who practices Subvocalurgy. A minor division of Thaumaturgy.

Which is basically mind control, indirect, incantation, invisible power effects. The sussurator whispers, and it is heard by the target at a distance (and no where else). The very powerful ones can reach miles. It does appear to come with side-effects, however (as all magic does in China's Perdido Street Station setting) - the Sussurator can only communicate through their whispers, and cannot therefore talk to more than one person at a time.