The Science of Magic and the Evolution of Gods

[Curufea]

This is what I based my olde Western Shores campaign on :-

The Science of Magic and the Evolution of Gods

Magical Energies
Magic is the interface between energy and matter. It allows one to affect the other. Magic is entropy. In any reaction when conversion between matter and energy occurs and the results are not equal, the remainder is magical energy.

Human events that affect magical energies directly:-
Major
Miracles, Spells
Minor
Birth, Death, Sex, Worship
Trivial
Life, Thought

Magical Tectonics Timeline
Big Bang
Universe splits into Physical, Energy and Magical in equal proportions.
Pre-Life
Energy and Matter concentrate into planetary systems as does Magic
Life
The concentrated Magic engenders life as a non-entropic user of matter and energy.
Plants
Evolution #1 of Magic - essentially non-dynamic and with little affect.
Animals
Evolution #2 of Magic - Instincts, killing for food, births and deaths have a greater affect on the 3 forces.
Intelligent Life
Evolution #3 of Magic - Many more uses.
Magical Beings and Users
Evolution #4 of Magic - Almost pure use of Magic.
Gods
Evolution #5 of Magic - Embodiments of pure Magic.
Post-Matter and Energy
The other two forces are gradually converted over time into Entropy/Magic.
Pre-Big Bang
The universe of Magic once more condenses ready to split again.

Ley Lines
Origins.
Before intelligent life, magic covered the world in eddies and flows with occasional concentrated pools at important events. Much like the sea.
Some lines are formed temporarily along tidal waves or earthquake fronts.
As the tectonic plates stabilised, lines formed at their edges becoming more permanent. These lines are clased as Static.
Intelligent life began worship of natural forces - especially destructive and localised ones. Creating larger pools of Magic around natural events. As these religions spread to other areas, so too did the pool of magic. Creating another line.
In general all lines of Magic prefer to connect to other lines rather than to end abruptly. This stabilises the flow somewhat, like the currents of an ocean.
The invention of churches and temples over sacred areas led to Dynamic Ley Lines. As Holy Days, rituals and events were introduced, these changed to Variable Ley Lines.
Currently the only Dynamic lines are linked to natural events, magical unique artefacts and cults/sacrificial altars.

Types of Ley Line
Static - The amount of Magic along the length of the line remains relatively constant and does not vary by much over very long periods of time.
Variable - The Magic varies in a uniform manner along its length. Usually increasing around Holy Days and festivals.
Dynamic - The Magic varies in pulses along its length. A sine wave oscillation.

Where they occur-
Dynamic -
Permanent: between sacrificial altars, magical artefacts
Temporary: between battlefields, natural events
Static -
Permanent: between shrines and places of power
Temporary: between mages casting the same spell
Variable -
Permanent: between churches
Temporary: between festivals and holiday celebrations.

When do they change-
Dynamic - A new pulse is generated each sacrifice and travels the line until it is used.
Static - Never
Variable - Every service or special ceremony.

Gods
Gods are personifications of Magic given religiously significant form and function. They find it easiest to perform miracles along the Ley lines they control (those of their religion).

Technology in a non-tech world
A mechanical "wondrous" device subtracts from the sum total of Magic available to everyone by trapping it in a physical form (usually a golem or artefact). Devices need to obey consistent rules in order to tap into the correct Ley Line - much the same way as religions need to be consistent to maintain power (a heretical split will create a new, lesser Ley Line which will need to be increased before being useful).

Magic Users
Do not believe in religion and are therefore not restricted to using a specific Ley Line. They use Magic from all sources including Technology. In general Magic Users are Jack-of-all-trades when it comes to magic but cannot perform Miracle-class spells, which require Godlike quantities of magic. Magic Users personify Gods as they have no religion and each individual is too different to form a Ley Line.

Clerics
In general all minor spells and miracles must be performed in close proximity to a Line or Church of their religion. Pantheistic clerics may also use allied God's Ley Lines (dependant on the politics of the time). Major Miracles require Godlike intervention - depending on the size of the religion, more than one manifestation may take place at the same time - it's dependant on resources available.

The Afterlife and Reincarnation
Intelligence/Mind/Soul are all manifestations of magic. Upon death they are reabsorbed into the universe. An intelligent being's personality will disperse over time unless it is found and used. Or stored.

The Supernatural
Ghosts are pockets of Magic still maintaining some small part of personality, that have worked out a way to manipulate energy (usually light, sometimes kinetic for poltergeists). Usually they are obsessive - it is the obsession that keeps them whole, with a stable lock on their ego. Resolution /relief of their stress will enable them to be dispersed. As will Magical rituals.
Skeletons and Zombies are magically created and motivated much like Golems. Any created being may have a personality attached to it if a sufficiently strong one can be found.
Vampires and Liches are strong willed individuals capable of manipulating their own bodies after death - or have had a magical spell cast upon them to allow them to do so. The act of a Vampire's Embrace is a magical spell that requires the ritual imbibing of blood.

[AlHazred]

Just so's I'm clear, Dynamic Ley Lines pulse at a completely random rate and intensity, whereas Variable Ley Lines pulse at a predictable rate and intensity. Did I get that right?

[Curufea]

Kinda.

More like Dynamic lines have high and low points at the same time. Variable lines are either all high, or all low along its entire length. I also envision lines more like a web, than a single line around the circumference of the world.


Location A B
_ _ _ _
Dynamic = _/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/

Variable= ------------------
or (at a different time)
Variable= __________________

Static is like Variable, but doesn't change over time

[tkdguy]

Interesting. I need to to take a closer look at this.

[Curufea]

I haven't written the rules up yet, but basically to tap a ley line there are various considerations-

Clerics only tap lines of their god, but are better at it (it's a specialisation)
Mages can do any.
Elves are better than mages (in my campaign).

Distance to the line, and how close it is to the spell you want to cast. I envision an End Reserve and an Aid for some types of spells..

Dynamic I wouldn't keep track of in a campaign, just roll randomly if tapped to find out what level it's at.
Variable would depend on the religions - so I'd keep a calendar (ie there are more fireballs thrown around on the High Holy Day of the God of Fire for example).
Static are the easiest to book keep - they remain the same. And generally are used to power petty magics.

[Curufea]

More on tapping magic-

There can be a branch of learning (possibly restricted to Elves only) called metamagic, which deals with how magic functions.
It would have spells specifically geared to manipulating how ley lines are tapped - and stopping others from tapping them.

It would lead to interesting tactical magic combats, as various "supply lines" were cut off from the use of enemy magicians and they are forced to fall back on secondary lines, that are less appropriate or further away.

Possibly this could be seen as an ECM/ECCM combat (TCM- Tapping Counter Measures?)

Which also leads to the number of supportable users of a ley line. For each additional user of a particular line, its overall strength should diminish.

[Curufea]

Currently I'm thinking of a table with different strengths of ley lines. You go up or down on the table according to season/festival, what type of ley line it is, and what type of user you are (religious, irreligious, Elven).

The general high level ley line will probably be-
END Reserve (100) 10pt, Recovery (10) 10pt, Ranged, Usuable simultaneously, x64 targets (Active cost 70), Slow Recovery 1/minute (-1 on recovery cost only), independent, reduced by range, IIF immobile, requires skill roll, no active point penalty & subject to skill vs skill (Real cost of 13)
+
2D6 Aid 20pts, Variable effect (relevent faith/area) (Active cost 60), Linked, independent, reduced by range, IIF immobile, requires skill roll, no active point penalty & subject to skill vs skill (Real cost of 11)

(possibly a usable by others as well for the Aid, but not sure about that)

There is a caveat that all magic must use ambient energy if it wishes to be persistent (or any other constant), and to use your own character's endurance should be extra tiring (increased endurance)

[sbarron]

This is an interesting system. Within the past 2 weeks I started working on a magic system with similar ideas (specifically Ley lines and nexus points). I was even considering creating charts and such. Ultimatley, I settled on very different approach. I'm interested to see how this all works out. Great job, Curufea.

[Curufea]

I like the idea of magic being integral to life, but separate. This system also makes astral perception useful - and magically aware characters never have problems with navigation. Unless you introduce Mana Storms :)

Although If you do, I'd be inclined to make the mana weather system non-random, otherwise PC mages would regard magic as fickle. Things like God's intervening, or massive ritual magic, or the use of very powerful artifacts may cause tides or ripples. Possibly even temporary dead zones.

The opening of the Demon Rift caused the largest chaotic storm, with the massive extradimensional invasion. Lies were warped, broken, or moved. Effectively over-written, or 'invaded' by otherworldly magic, creating chaos at the edges (and, incidentally, wiping out any advantages the Elven empire had). Mind you, I kinda rewrote the Western Shores history - there was an alternate timeline where the PCs were Elven princes/heirs in a magic Elven golden age - their first mission they are tricked into doing by an evil grand-vizier-type was the retrieval of a magic item necessary for a ritual magic spell that effectively causes their ancestors to have never been born. They themselves wear devices that protect them from the item so they can retrieve it - which also incidentally protects them from the paradox of existing. So you have PCs of a different history, wandering around in the book's normal example history (1st ed Fantasy Hero that is) wearing devices that if removed, cause them to cease existing :) There were a number of ways to get around the devices eventually, but we didn't get that far. I'm not really sure why I went that route ten years ago - normally I find time trave quite abhorrent. Oh well...

The magic system is a little bit of "The Force" in Starwars, meets Animism, meets "Gaia" in Final Fantasy :)

Although one of the campaigns was heavily influenced by Kabbalism as well (too much Evangelian watching I guess) :)

[Curufea]

<TABLE BORDER="1"><TBODY><TR><TD COLSPAN="7"><H2>Endurance Reserve</H2></TD><TD COLSPAN="3"><H2>Aid</H2></TD><TD COLSPAN="2"><H2>Total </H2></TD></TR><TR><TH>End</TH><TH>Rec</TH><TH>Class</TH><TH>Type</TH><TH>Event</TH><TH>Active</TH><TH>Real</TH><TH>Aid </TH><TH>Active</TH><TH>Real</TH><TH>Active</TH><TH>Real</TH></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">200</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD ROWSPAN="3" BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Major </TD><TD ROWSPAN="3" BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Dynamic </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Artifact Destruction, Mass slaughter, Major sacrificial festivals, Natural disasters</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">131.25</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">25</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">150</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">29</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">281</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">54</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">150</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Holy days</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">113.75</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">22</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">150</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">29</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">264</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">51</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">100</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Normal</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">96.25</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">18</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">5D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">150</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">29</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">246</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">47</TD></TR><TR><TD>100</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD ROWSPAN="3">Minor </TD><TD ROWSPAN="3">Dynamic </TD><TD>Artifact Destruction, Mass slaughter, Major sacrificial festivals, Natural disasters</TD><TD>84</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>204</TD><TD>39</TD></TR><TR><TD>50</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD>Holy days</TD><TD>66.5</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>187</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>40</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD>Normal</TD><TD>63</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>4D6</TD><TD>120</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>183</TD><TD>34</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">120</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">100</TD><TD ROWSPAN="3" BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Major </TD><TD ROWSPAN="3" BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Variable </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Major Holy days and rituals, Manifestations</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">392</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">70</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">3D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">90</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">17</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">482</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">87</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">100</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">20</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Holy days</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">105</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">20</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">3D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">90</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">17</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">195</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">37</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">80</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">10</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Normal</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">63</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">12</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">3D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">90</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">17</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">153</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">29</TD></TR><TR><TD>60</TD><TD>50</TD><TD ROWSPAN="3">Minor </TD><TD ROWSPAN="3">Variable </TD><TD>Major Holy days and rituals, Manifestations</TD><TD>196</TD><TD>35</TD><TD>2D6</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>256</TD><TD>46</TD></TR><TR><TD>50</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>Holy days</TD><TD>52.5</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>2D6</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>21</TD></TR><TR><TD>40</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>Normal</TD><TD>31.5</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2D6</TD><TD>60</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>92</TD><TD>17</TD></TR><TR><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">40</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">40</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Major</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Static</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">Normal</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">154</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">27</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">1D6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">30</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">6</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">184</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#C0C0C0">33</TD></TR><TR><TD>20</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>Minor</TD><TD>Static</TD><TD>Normal</TD><TD>77</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>1D6</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>107</TD><TD>20</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P><STRONG>Major</STRONG> lines are between major temples, shrines or artifacts and usually represent the dominant religions and beliefs.</P><P>The variable recovery for Dynamic lines costs are based on average roll of a D6 (3.5)</P><TABLE BORDER="1"><TBODY><TR><TD COLSPAN="3"><H2>Other Endurance Reserves </H2> </TD></TR><TR><TH>END</TH><TH>Rec</TH><TH>Name</TH></TR><TR><TD>As creature</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>Birth</TD></TR><TR><TD>As creature</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>Death</TD></TR><TR><TD>20</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>Sex</TD></TR><TR><TD>10</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>Worship</TD></TR><TR><TD>As artifact</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>Artifacts</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P>Note - all artifacts should not have recoverable endurance reserves, but some may be able to recharge themselves if in proximity to an appropriate ley line
</P><P>Normal race PCs should not have reserves either, unless they are magical beings of some sort. Recovery of the reserve is the same as artifacts.
</P><P>
The END of the "Other Endurance Reserves" can be used to recharge magical beings and artifacts - if it is appropriate (ie a vampire cannot recharge from births, an angel of the god of healing cannot recharge from deaths)
</P>

[Curufea]

Recommended for ley-line using packages-

Clerics:
Psych lim - can only use ley lines of their deity for magic.
Psych lim - Belief/faith/code of conduct/honour
Skills - Theology: equivalent to a magic skill roll for casting spells of their faith AND a tapping skill roll for accessing their deity's ley lines.


Mages:
Psych lim - cannot recharge END reserves with worship (all Mages are athiests)
Skills - College/School: magic skill rolls for casting particular classes of spells
- Tap College/school:: tapping skill roll for using a type of ley line

Elves:
Skills - Racial Magic: magic skill roll for a particular category of spells
- Tap Racial Magic: tapping skill roll for using a category of ley lines
e.g. Dark Elves - Evil, Sea Elves - Chaos, Wood Elves - Good, Elven Council - Order, High Elves - Entropy

The setting is pantheistic/pantheurgic for all the users of magic. So each of the three types listed above should have a main type of magic bought at 3/2 and if they want more it costs a larger amount for the secondary beliefs/colleges/racial magics.
Note - High Elven Entropy covers all forms of magic.

This ties in to the pyramid structure of the Elven religion.

Next, I'll probably do a list of the tier structure of magic, and suggestions of which colleges/spells/gods belong to which branch of the Elven religion. This is my version of Western Shores though - so you would need your own for whatever campaign setting you are using.

If you make gods the source of power, rather than a manifestation of it, as it is in my world - you should rewrite clerics and make them more powerful than other type of magic user.

[tkdguy]

Another idea you can do is have just one source of magic. It's just that the clerics believe it comes from the gods. If they have a lot of political power, they can make life hard on the mages for "stealing the gods' magic."

[Curufea]

That is the general idea. The church is powerful - afterall, the gods occasionally walk the earth, miracles happen, and prayer really does make a difference.
And both Mages and Elves are classed as 'soulless'
So they should also have social limitations of being vilified.

However, the church is only powerful in the current age - the altered timeline with the previous "golden age of elves" had the Elven empire dominant, and while the church still hated them, they only whispered behind their backs :)

[tkdguy]

If the elves still have their own kingdoms, they'd be in a good position to fight back. Even if they don't, they can still have a resistance movement of sorts. Mages, being lumped in with the elves, would most likely be their allies. They would be a force to be reckoned with, despite the power of the church.

[Curufea]

Kinda possible if it was a different history. Post time-paradox, the elves are reduced a single city in the forest (Moondeep) and humanity has taken over. While powerful magic is one thing - a high birthrate and a willingness to explore at the hazard of dieing makes up for a lot...

Mages aren't organised into guilds in my world. And while I refer to colleges and schools of spells - that's only because that's the way it is organised in 1st ed Fantasy Hero and the Companion books. While magic is fairly common - it is very low powered (at least now it is - the Demon Cleft reduced the overall magic level).

[Adam Kadmon]

Recommended for ley-line using packages-

Clerics: Psych lim - can only use ley lines of their deity for magic.

Mages: Psych lim - cannot recharge END reserves with worship (all Mages are athiests).


Is this meant to be a psych lim? Shouldn't it be a physical limit?
At the moment mages and clerics only believe that they cant use other lay lines.
Having it as a physical limit means they cant use the lay lines.

[Curufea]

No, I'm in favour of psych lim :-

If a Mage finds faith, they become a cleric.
If a Cleric loses faith, they become a mage.

The magic is still there, but the method of obtaining changes. It allows for more character development, and epiphanies.

You can't actual "buy off" the psych lim disad, you can only change it from one to the other. As it's a point of world view that changes.

I toss the terms "mage" and "cleric" about a lot, but that's because everyone is familiar with the class structure of D&D. Personally, I much prefer skill based systems without defined classes. In this case it's "world view".

Possibly there could be a transition period of self-doubt where they have difficulty getting in touch with magic at all.

[Markdoc]

Actually I'd agree with Adam - a Phys. Lim is most appropriate. Don't get hung up special effects - a Phys. Lim. can be mental or mystic in origin.

The reason for this is that a Psych. Lim can be overcome with an Ego roll - so if you choose a Psych Lim., then a mage who made an Ego roll could recharge from worshipping and a Cleric could tap ley lines.

If that's what you want: that the two styles of magic can recharge at each other's sources with an effort of will, then go with a Psych. Lim. If not, go with a Phys Lim.

cheers, Mark

[Curufea]

True.

I was kinda thinking "alignment shifts" from D&D for acting out of character on this..

Change in faith is possible- either there could be a house rule that attempting an EGO roll means the character is "wavering on the edge" - which will be a GM warning. If they make more than a certain number of rolls, they have a "crisis of faith" and all magical powers acquire an activation roll (or possible fail entirely, and then over time, perhaps get an activation roll), before they get a skill roll, until the character completes a spiritual quest of some sort.

If it's a phys lim - then it can be worked out with the GM if they want to develop their character along alternate line

[Curufea]

I'll just clarify the bit about organised magic - Each kingdom has different forms of magic use-
The human kingdoms vary between Church dominated, and tharl/shaman for the Noric-types.
The feline empire (Kartar) has mainly combat-oriented mage schools and a structured system.
The lizardman empire (Zylastra) has mainly Church dominated. But their church is quite different from the human's. On a subspecies note - the warmblooded lizards are more intelligent,and rule. The coldblooded are slaves (who, incidentally would grow up to be dragons if left in peace)..

Anyhow, back OT-

Mages SHOULD have some form of special sense to see magic. For Elves, it's a requirement. But for mages, and clerics it depends on how you access magic. Wild mages and the average cleric will just know that some places and times are better than others for magic/miracles. Those that can sense 'astral space' (still thinking of a better name), will know why, and can chart/navigate and map ley lines. Possibly also detect magical beings.

I could well imagine some of the more fundamentalist sub-religions using mana-sight to track down mages and their use of magic, as a form of witch-hunting.

Another note on range for ley lines - I've listed it as a power of the line itself, which doesn't account for the highly skilled mages being able to tap into lines at a greater distance.
This could be represented as a kind of clairsentience/telepresence. But I haven't worked out how, yet....

There is an alternative to mapping ley lines for campaigns as well - just use statistics.
Most vilages will have a shrine of some sort depending on how devout they are. Most will have a graveyard, animals and people are born and die all the time. This should set an ambient mana level that will be good enough to power all persistent spells/miracles/magical traits.
There are magic-null areas where this is not the case. These are areas hiding great artifacts or magical beings that consume the ambient mana - or areas that have been invaded by non-terrestrial mana (such as the area around the Daemon Cleft in WS).
Some form of table should be designed for your campaign setting based on the following factors-
Nearness to a settlement
Size of the settlement
Types of gods worshipped there (or other beliefs) - which flavour the Ley Lines and change what powers they aid
Time of year (affects how powerful the domain of a god is for the Line)
Local weirdness (are there artifacts, dungeons, battles or cults nearby)