Question regarding transform power... [Archive]

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error10

Apr 7th, '03, 11:26 AM

I'm trying to hash out my latest character concept for an iron-age champions game. (think X-Men)

The character I'm going to play is a cross between Thing and the Hulk. I'd like him to have a normal identity, but when angered or enraged he should transform into an earth elemental type. Basically built of rock and dirt with various forms of vegetation growing off of him. I'd like his attacks to be HTH mostly, with maybe 1/2d6 HKA to account for sharp rocks jutting out of his knuckles, etc.

The problem I'm having is with the transform. I'm not sure how much it should cost, since I'm buying the density increase and stat increases as independant powers. The density increase I gave the 'extra time' limitation to, and the others are "only in hero ID".

Help please!

-E

This is what I have thus far...

Rockslide

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12/42  </td><td>STR</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>DEX</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12/20  </td><td>CON</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14/24  </td><td>BODY</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>EGO</td><td>16</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>PRE</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>COM</td><td>-2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/27  </td><td>PD</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/27  </td><td>ED</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4/6  </td><td>SPD</td><td>16</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>REC</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">24  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">26  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"/8"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 73

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">13  </td><td>+2 SPD (20 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Linked to Density Increase (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">40  </td><td>Armor (20 PD/20 ED) (60 Active Points); Linked to Density Increase (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>+8 CON (16 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Linked to Density Increase (-1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">11  </td><td>+10 BODY (20 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Linked to Density Increase (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2  </td><td>+10 PRE (10 Active Points); Linked to Density Increase (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Rockslide - Hero ID - Earth: Elemental Control, 10-point powers </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>1) Density Increase (400 kg mass, +10 STR, +2 PD/ED, -2" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>2) +20 STR (20 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Linked to Density Increase (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 93

Total Character Cost: 166

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Tom McCarthy

Apr 7th, '03, 11:43 AM

I don't want to sound harsh, but you've made some errors.

1) Characteristics in a framework usually MUST take No Figured Characteristics as (-0), not -1/2. (see EC slot 2)
2) An attack of 8D6 is either very small for this campaign, or 27 defence is very high. If 8D6 is about right (for 40 STR), then 20 defence should be your max. If 27 defence is right, you need at least 9D6 to have a meaningful attack, and possibly 11D6.
3) Perhaps you should rethink the overall OIHID structure. It might be easiest to buy the character unpowered, then buy all the heroic add ons with OIHID only (no linking).
4) Characteristics in an EC are usually frowned upon, but the GM may allow it.
5) Your EC, as it is, could have a 7 point base, since slot 1 is 15 active points.
6) Consider taking a size and weight physical limitation for hero ID, and then not using the density increase power. There's a real point efficiency gain (though small at 2 levels of DI).

error10

Apr 7th, '03, 01:08 PM

Okay...I made some changes you suggested, but I'm still confused how to handle the transformation.

Here's what I've got so far.

-E

Rockslide
<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12/40  </td><td>STR</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>DEX</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12/22  </td><td>CON</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14/24  </td><td>BODY</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>EGO</td><td>16</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>PRE</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6/16  </td><td>COM</td><td>-2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/21  </td><td>PD</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/17  </td><td>ED</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4/6  </td><td>SPD</td><td>16</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8/14  </td><td>REC</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">24/44  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">26/50  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"/10"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"/18 1/2"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 73

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>+2 SPD (20 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">27  </td><td>Armor (10 PD/8 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (34 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>+10 CON (20 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>+10 BODY (20 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>+10 PRE (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>Density Increase (400 kg mass, +10 STR, +2 PD/ED, -2" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">14  </td><td>+18 STR (18 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">13  </td><td>Leaping +11" (2"/18 1/2" forward, 1"/9" upward) (Accurate) (16 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>Running +4" (8 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4  </td><td>+10 COM (5 Active Points); Only In Normal Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 128

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Crush: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +4d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Choke Hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 18

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Driving 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Gambling (Blackjack, Dice Games, Poker) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Mechanics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Streetwise 11- (13-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Survival 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Large Planes, Small Planes, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">8  </td><td>+2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 31

Total Character Cost: 250

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Rivalry: Professional, Other bricks, Rival is As Powerful, Seek to Harm or Kill Rival, Rival Unaware of Rivalry </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Accidental Change: When angry or hurt 8- (Uncommon) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Social Limitation: Mutant (Occasionally; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Never backs down from a fight (Common; Strong) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 50

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Fuzzy Gnome

Apr 7th, '03, 04:00 PM

My critique: I don't think you want Only In Hero ID on your Presence to affect the Base Characteristic; that means you have 0 PRE in civilian ID.
You don't need to do anything further to represent his transformation; that he needs to get angry to power up is part of the SFX of the Only In Hero ID limitation.
By concept your Accidental Change doesn't limit you in Hero ID; maybe you should have an equal valued disad such as Distinctive Features and use one in civilian ID and the other in hero ID.
Rivalry with everybody and wants to beat them to a pulp?? If I was a not-very-powerful brick that had trouble powering up, I wouldn't go around picking serious fights with the likes of the Hulk. But then, I'm not overconfident, either. :p

Kaladur

Apr 8th, '03, 01:15 PM

Hello

I would like to know how some people would make this Character .

250 pts.

If there is anyone out there that has a good write up on a Earth/Rock Super that has a secret ID in normal form. ie. Human form.

Thank you for the Help

Kaladur

Asperion

Apr 8th, '03, 07:59 PM

I think that this character is going to be a great character. However it seems to me as though there are two completely distinctly different forms here. One form would be that of a normal, although highly skilled, normal person. This person would get only skills and characteristics that a normal person could obtain. If there is anything exceptional about Rockslide's human form it would be in the form of superbly high skills levels. He might even possess combat-oriented skills but powers would at most be super-skills, not power-powers. The other form would be the earth elemental. This form would have all the powers at the expense of those skills the normal form possesses. Physical characteristics would be greater than normal people have the ability to obtain. Mental characteristics would be normal to sub-normal. If Rockslide were to possess any skills, they would mostly be centered around combat. There would be little to no adventure-type skills on the elemental's sheet.

Tom McCarthy

Apr 9th, '03, 04:52 AM

If I was trying to work Rockslide in for a mere 250 points, I would definitely look hard at multiform. Build the human form as the base form, but give it the power Multiform to 250 point Earth Elemental (50 active points), Costs END (-1/2; see special rules under Multiform) and Reversion (-1/2) (25 real points).

With 225 points left, the human form can be quite flexible and capable. With a full 250 points, Rockslide can be even more impressive, ignoring investigatory skills in favour of sheer combat ability (or drop back slightly form 250 and give Rockslide very few disadvantages). With multiform, the two can have very different power sets, capabilities, and even personalities.

Tom McCarthy

Apr 9th, '03, 08:43 AM

Rockslide (the multiform)
Val Char Cost
50 STR 40
14 DEX 12
23 CON 26
20 BODY 20
13 INT 3
18 EGO 16
20 PRE 10
16 COM 3
23 PD 13
19 ED 14
6 SPD 36
15 REC 0
46 END 0
57 STUN 0

10" RUN 0
0" SWIM 0
19" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 193

Cost Power END
-2 Doesn't swim: -2" swimming
10 Hardened defences for 23 PD and 19 ED
11 Damage Resistance (10 PD/8 ED), Hardened (+1/4)
4 Heavy: -2" KB
14 Leaping +9" (Accurate)
8 Running +4" (8 Active Points)
Powers Cost: 45

Cost Skill
5 +1 with HTH Combat
3 +1 with Punch, Grab, Haymaker
4 +2 with Punch
Skills Cost: 12

Total Character Cost: 250

Val Disadvantages
15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common; Strong)
5 Rivalry: Professional, Other bricks, Rival is As Powerful, Seek to Harm or Kill Rival, Rival Unaware of Rivalry
10 Social Limitation: Mutant (Occasionally; Major)
15 Psychological Limitation: Never backs down from a fight (Common; Strong)
5 Physical Limitation: Large and Heavy (400kg)(Infrequently, Slightly)

Disadvantage Points: 50

Tom McCarthy

Apr 9th, '03, 08:58 AM

OK, this one strayed quite a bit off concept, but there's just so many points to work with here, and so many crunchy good things to add.

Val Char Cost
15 STR 5
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
14 BODY 8
13 INT 3
18 EGO 16
15 PRE 5
6 COM -2

9 PD 6
9 ED 5
4 SPD 12
8 REC 2
36 END 0
31 STUN 0

9" RUN 0
7" SWIM 0
3" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 100

Cost Power END
22 Multiform to 250 point Earth Elemental (50 active points), Costs END (-1/2), Reversion (-1/2), Extra Time to activate only (Full Phase, -1/4)
6 Fast Runner: +3" Running
5 Fast Swimmer: +5" swimming
4 Quarterstaff: +2D6 HA, HA limitation (-1/2), OAF staff (-1)
Powers Cost: 37

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver
4 Crush: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +4d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab
3 Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on
3 Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls
4 Choke Hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND
4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4 Martial Strike
12 +3 DCs
1 Usable with quarterstaff
Martial Arts Cost: 35

Cost Skill
3 Combat Driving 12-
3 Combat Piloting 12-
4 Gambling (Blackjack, Dice Games, Poker) 12-
3 Mechanics 12-
3 Streetwise 11- (13-)
2 Survival 12-
5 TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Large Planes, Small Planes, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles
55 more points in skill levels and skills
Skills Cost: 78
Total Character Cost: 250

Val Disadvantages
15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common; Strong)
5 Rivalry: Professional, Other bricks, Rival is As Powerful, Seek to Harm or Kill Rival, Rival Unaware of Rivalry
5 Accidental Change: When angry or hurt 8- (Uncommon)
10 Social Limitation: Mutant (Occasionally; Major)
15 Psychological Limitation: Never backs down from a fight (Common; Strong)

Disadvantage Points: 50