Putting extra "oomph" into a spell

[Michael Hopcroft]

Do you allow mages to push their spells when they need an extra-special effect? Not just for more damage with attacks, but also to go places faster (pushing a Movement Power) or go farther than they normally would (Pushing a teleport spell), to make Transforms that last longer, etc.

[arcady]

I have a couple schemes for pushing.

I allow for pushing using the Champions rules and not Hero setup - but side effects become more harsh under these circumstances.

I also allow a mage to then lower the effects of that by pushing the cost onto the world around them - causing even harsher effects to change the world in unknown ways.

Ritual magic in Fahla is structured to let mages boost each other, and create spells far beyond the normal limits of mortal mages, but the cost of doing such can be lethal.


In Fahla, you can always get more power, but the more you push into the world, the harder it burns on you. In the setting, 90% of all mages die in adolesence from an inability to deal with this.

http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/fahla/Gaming/magic_Hero.html

[Foxx!]

Michael Hopcroft!

For a year I have been experimenting with a way to let mages push spells. So far there have been no big problems that couldn’t be settled.

1: Decide how many AP you want to push.
2: Make an EGO roll.
3: Take 5 AP of Side Effects for every 5 AP in the push.

If you make the EGO roll, you push the spell. If you don’t, you still take the Side Effects.

The Side Effects are decided by the GM. The player cannot know in advance what is going to happen, but the Side Effects should be related to the spell. There is no defence or way to avoid the Side Effects.

Players rarely push because they don’t know what the Side Effects will be, and they take the Side Effects even if the push doesn’t succeed. The more you push, the more you get hurt. If a mage pushes too often, start using Side Effects with long lasting effects: Transform, Drain with reduced recovery rate, etc. Less damaging Side Effects are also interesting: Cosmetic Transform, COM Drain, Disadvantages, etc.

Another option I am trying is letting players have +1 OCV, or +1 to the skill roll if they have one, in place of 5 AP. A mage can push for 20 AP and use 10 AP to get +2 OCV and 10 AP to add 2 DC.

Cheers!

[Chris Goodwin]

How about this. Let them Push using the full Pushing rules, but let them use their Magic or Power Skill instead of an EGO Roll.

[Yesman]

I've never had any problems letting mages push per the normal pushing rules.

[Foxx!]

How about this. Let them Push using the full Pushing rules, but let them use their Magic or Power Skill instead of an EGO Roll.
Archer!

That's a cool idea. I think a Power Skill roll seems more appropriate than an EGO roll. And mentalist mages won't get a discount bonus for pushing.

Cheers!

[Michael Hopcroft]

Archer!

That's a cool idea. I think a Power Skill roll seems more appropriate than an EGO roll. And mentalist mages won't get a discount bonus for pushing.

Cheers!
But wouldn't that cause characters with high Skill to push more often than usual because they can avoid the worst effects simply by making their Skill rolls, no matter what ther willpower?

This may be the effect you're looking for. This may be a reward for taking the Magic skill at high level that you want to build into your magic system. I wonder if this is what you want to do, though, if you want to keep Pushing as a rare option that is used mainly in life-or-death situations.

[Trencher]

Yes I allow the players to push spells, it is heroic and appropriate for the style of play I am going for. (Epic slaughterfest)
Only once per ten games though (give and take)

[Foxx!]

But wouldn't that cause characters with high Skill to push more often than usual because they can avoid the worst effects simply by making their Skill rolls, no matter what ther willpower?

This may be the effect you're looking for. This may be a reward for taking the Magic skill at high level that you want to build into your magic system. I wonder if this is what you want to do, though, if you want to keep Pushing as a rare option that is used mainly in life-or-death situations.
Michael Hopcroft!

In my system, there is no way to avoid the Side Effects for pushing, even if you succeed a roll. As a result, players rarely push.

But your point about willpower makes me think I should stay with an EGO roll. That's what the Hero rules use for STR.

Cheers!

[arcady]

What I have on pushing and 'wilding' (a method that goes even further).

<ilayer src="http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/fahla/Gaming/magic_Hero.html#pushing" height=300 width=100%></ilayer><iframe src="http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/fahla/Gaming/magic_Hero.html#pushing" height=300 width=100%></iframe>

This might make the skill roll impossible, so mages can then force the spell - doubling the side effect for an automatic skill roll success:

Forcing a Spell:
If a spell fails a mage can choose to force it anyway. This must be declared -before- the Side Effect dice are rolled. Forcing a spell causes it to be cast despite the failed spell roll but doubles the Damage Class (active cost) of side effect. For a Wild Mage, the doubling explodes out of them as well - but cannot harm any mage directly opposing them or that mage's direct and clear subordinates (non subordinate allies however, are another matter).