Who's the most nearly-invulnerable...

[tinman]

...character in your campaign world (PC or NPC) and how were their defenses built?

I'll go first: Adam Gray (NPC antagonist, Silver-Surfer personality with Superman powers set), 40 hardened resistent PD and ED, 50% resistent Damage Reduction. He also has 20 BODY and 60 STUN.

The PC's in the campaign started out at as standard 4th ed. 250-point characters but are now up around 600 points (almost 5 years later).

[Chuckg]

Horus-Re, Champion of the Unconquered Sun, and our world's Superman-equivalent. (Also a PC, and team leader of the New Sentinels -- hey, 750-point game)

The last I knew, his defenses were...

Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened

25% Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant
25% Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant

+50% Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant (not vs. black magic w/ darkness special effects, -1/4) (we gave him a kryptonite equivalent to make life for the DM easier, and as he's a sun god, Darkforce-type stuff was considered appropriately thematic)
+50% Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, (not vs. black magic w/ darkness special effects, -1/4)

4d6 Absorption vs. Physical, Standard Effect, (adds to 4 things simultaneously), adds to Stun, Body, END, and Absorption maximum, can add adders, (not vs. black magic w/ darkness special effects, -1/4)
4d6 Absorption vs. Energy, Standard Effect, (adds to 4 things simultaneously), adds to Stun, Body, END, and Absorption maximum, can add adders, (not vs. black magic w/ darkness special effects, -1/4)

Oh, and

25 points Mental Defense, Hardened (on top of a 30 EGO)
10 points Power Defense, Hardened


PS -- although we came up with it independently before the UNTIL supplement came out, we still point to Quasar's own Damage Reduction/Absorption to STUN, etc. combo as vindication... if it's legal for him, it should be legal for us.

You can see how it works. First, you take off the certain minimum damage that just won't hurt him at all. Then, you cut whatever's left by 3/4ths. And /then/, you slap back 6 BODY, 12 STUN, 24 END, and 12 character points' worth of increasing the Absorption cap (IOW, allowing the Absorption to pretty much run forever). Since we used Standard Effect, we don't have to roll for it, this is just what happens.

What this means is, in order to damage Horus-Re at all, you have to do more than 48 STUN and/or 24 BODY to him.

After defenses.

And even then, you're losing 4 for 1.

Example:

Doctor Destroyer fires his 30d6 EB smasher at him. Let's assume he rolled the average of 3.5, and did 30 BODY and 70 STUN.

1) Subtract Armor. 20 BODY, 60 STUN

2) Apply Damage Reduction. He takes 5 BODY, 15 STUN

3) Apply Absorption. He is now down a total 0 BODY(*), 3 STUN

(*) Horus takes the limitation that his Absorption will not put his BODY or his STUN over their normal max value.

This is after taking 30d6 in the kisser, mind you.


So, let's escalate. Horus-Re: vs. a Nuclear Space Missile

25d6 RKA. We'll Standard Effect this one. 75 BODY, and 225 STUN

a) Apply Defenses. 65 BODY, 215 STUN

b) Apply Damage Reduction. 16 BODY, 54 STUN

c) Apply Absorption. He has taken 10 BODY, and 42 STUN. (Note: Horus has a 60 CON.)

Wow. At this rate, two more of those and he'll be Knocked Out. But he's not Con Stunned yet!

And note, this is from an attack that will have vaporized the entire city he is standing in.

We consider this to be a close approximation of the Byrne "Man of Steel" era Superman. Small arms? Bwa-ha-ha. Artillery? OK, now he's actually feeling a sting. Standard megavillain attacks? Bring a Snickers bar. Multiple hits from multi-megaton blockbusters? OK, now we're starting to actually hurt. Starting. Planet-vaporizing attack? OK, /now/ we're dead. But, the fact that you needed to haul out the Death Star in the first place...


Of course, this assumes that you're not using his own particular equivalent of Kryptonite. (Darkforce-style black magic effects, IOW). If you /are/... his total defenses are the 10 PD/ED Armor (Hardened) and 25% of the Damage Reduction. And the Absorption isn't online at all. So... ow, ow, ow. /Within/ his weakness, people with 15d6 attacks make him bleed. /Outside/ of it, you start needing ICBM rocket ripples.

[Chuckg]

Note -- if you're wondering how the hell Firewing fought this to a standstill in the first session of our game, the answer is, this happened /before/ Horus' defenses underwent a retcon / radiation accident. Horus-Re 1.0 had "only" a straight 40 PD/40 ED, Hardened, which was doable for Firewing with some good rolls.

Now? Let's just say that come the rematch, I plan to indulge in some major-league giggling and snorting at Firewing's expense, as I watch from the sidelines. :)

[tinman]

Wouldn't the 25% and 50% reductions be applied seperately? So that if an attack got 40 stun past his PD or ED it would then be reduced by 25% to 30 and then by 50% to 15 (after which the absorption kicks in...)? If he had 75% reduction he would only take 10 stun before absorption. In order for two seperate reductions to equal 75% they would have to both be at 50%, right?

Or am I totally out to lunch on this?

Seriously impressive any way you slice it though.

[Chuckg]

No, we bought it as +50%, not 50%.

IOW, the limitations were applied to the # of points that made up the difference between the costs for 25% Resistant and 75% Resistant, not the listed cost for 50% Resistant.

Maybe it's not standard, but how the heck else do you characters who are mega-invulnerable to one thing but partly vulnerable to another thing? It's like buying Armor, and then buying more Armor, Only Vs.

[JmOz]

Vanguard (German Brick) is the leader of the Lunar squad of Centurians, He has a MP that combines Defencive ability with movement powers, here he is:

PD/ED: 20/20
50% Resistant Physical/Energy Damage Reduction
10 MD
10 LoW
Various LS

No resistant defences outside of his MP

Uber Field I: Multipower, 130-point reserve, (130 Active Points); all slots Not while in the radiation X or while in the presence of Proto Matter (-1/2)
6u 1) Uber Defence I: (Total: 100 Active Cost, 61 Real Cost) Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (x2; +1/2) (45 Active Points) (Real Cost: 30) plus Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Linked (Armor; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 21) plus PowD (10 points), Hardened (+1/4) (12 Active Points); Linked (Armor; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 7) plus Damage Resistance (10 Power Def.), Hardened (+1/4) (6 Active Points); Linked (Armor; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 3) 0
7u 2) Uber Defence II: (Total: 100 Active Cost, 67 Real Cost) FF (20 PD/20 ED/10 Power Defense) (Protect Carried Items), Hardened (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (90 Active Points) (Real Cost: 60) plus Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED) (10 Active Points) (Real Cost: 7) 3
5u 3) Uber Defence III: Desolidification (affected by Magic), Trigger (+1/4), Trigger 0 Phase Action (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (100 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) 0
2u 4) Standing Firm: Knockback Resistance -15" (30 Active Points) 0
2u 5) Uber-Running: Running +9" (6"/15" total), x8 Noncombat (28 Active Points) 3
2u 6) Uber Flight I: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (30 Active Points) 3
2u 7) Uber Flight II: Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) (30 Active Points) 3
1u 8) Uber Flight III: FTL Travel (10 Active Points)

[Kristopher]

Candidates from my NPC list:

Slugfest, villain brick with 20/20 Hardened PD/ED, 50% resistant reduction, and 4d6 of the "Absorbtion to STUN/BODY/Absorbtion Max" trick detailed above.

Omega Girl (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24896), who can fit a lot of specialized defense into that 140-point Cosmic VPP, on top of her already world-class defenses.

[Arkham]

The Paladine - An NPC Hero with the personality of the Tick.

He has Armor 10/10 OIF as Medieval looking armor made of space-age materials. ( ceramics, titanium, etc, etc )
But that is just his costume.
His own flesh is 50 PD 50 ED Resistant Hardened x2
Energy Damage Reduction 75%
Physical Damage Reduction 75%
25 Power Defense Resistant, Hardened

Plus a 'Divine Touch' as a Lay on Hands kind of thing with 8d6 Simplified Healing, can heal limbs.
AND 3 BODY of Regeneration

And a multipower of Invulnerability Tricks including Desolid, invisible to touch group, and 'I Block it with my Body!' as Missile Deflection.

His helmet has a bit of (5 points) Sight and Hearing flash defense.

And 0, None, Zip, Not a point of mental defense.
and Psych Lim: Easily Distracted and given to Non Sequitors ( Very Common, Strong )

[Moody Loner]

Huh.

I was going to talk about Paladine but I didn't know what his defenses were.

I would say that would put him on the "don't piss off" list if he weren't already on it :)

[Enforcer84]

I think Atlas, 60 PD/ED and 50% DR was my biggest baddest fellow.

[sinanju]

...character in your campaign world (PC or NPC) and how were their defenses built?

Mr. Invulnerable. He's not a superhero or a supervillain, just a minor celebrity (he's been on various talk shows demonstrating his schtick). He's an NPC who is simply invulnerable (GM fiat is the mechanism). NOTHING (including lack of air, food, etc) can harm him, but otherwise he's a normal man. No superhuman strength, no insanely high CON or BOD or PD, no defenses, no particular combat skills.

Just a regular guy with 100% Damage Reduction. Bury him under the rubble of a collapsed building and he can't move until someone digs him out, but he won't be harmed in the least. Set off a nuke under his chair and he'll be flung high in the air...but he won't be hurt.

[Publius]

No, we bought it as +50%, not 50%.

IOW, the limitations were applied to the # of points that made up the difference between the costs for 25% Resistant and 75% Resistant, not the listed cost for 50% Resistant.

Maybe it's not standard, but how the heck else do you characters who are mega-invulnerable to one thing but partly vulnerable to another thing? It's like buying Armor, and then buying more Armor, Only Vs.My only "problem" is the fact hat doing this way is 15 points cheaper. I'm not certain what you mean by "limitations", a custom adder possibly?

Were I using your 25% and "+50%" route, I would possibly try using a custom adder to make the combination of the 25% and 50% point-equivalent to a 75% R. Now, the only sticky wickett is which one (25% or 50%) to apply to adder to: if you apply it to the 25% you do not get the -1/4 limitation, if you apply it to the 50% you would then take the -1/4 off. As the difference is only 3 points it might not seem consequential, but that might be another power in the powerpool or something. Not having been in the situation, I have no idea what I might do when you ask me flat-footed.

Another possibility is to take 75% Resistant Damage Reduction with the -1/4 disadvantage "Doesn't Apply to Dark Matter", and then take a 25% resistant Damage Reduction that applies "Only to Dark Matter" for a what? say -1... Depending on how you add the 15 point adder from the above, the two methods (each using both energy and physical) come out only a few points different (only 2 if you do not take the -1/4 limit on the 15 point adder, 8 if you do). Throw another limitation (or assess more than a -1) on the "only to Dark Matter" side of the equation and the number would probably balance out completely.

[MechaGM]

Example:

Doctor Destroyer fires his 30d6 EB smasher at him. Let's assume he rolled the average of 3.5, and did 30 BODY and 70 STUN.

1) Subtract Armor. 20 BODY, 60 STUN

2) Apply Damage Reduction. He takes 5 BODY, 15 STUN

3) Apply Absorption. He is now down a total 0 BODY(*), 3 STUN

(*) Horus takes the limitation that his Absorption will not put his BODY or his STUN over their normal max value.

This is after taking 30d6 in the kisser, mind you.


Minor quibble... the average Stun on a 30d6 attack is 105, not 70. ;) (70 Stun is average for a 20d6 attack) Which would leave Horus-Re down 12 stun by my math.

Mind you, that still pretty darn good considering it's a 150 AP attack. ;)

The toughest guy in the last campaign I ran (which is on hiatus atm) was Anvil. 30PD(10rPD)/30ED(10rED) with 75% resistant Physical Damage Reduction and 75% Energy Damage Reduction (not vs. Electrical attacks). He has 30 con and a boatload of stun. (and 10" of KB resistance) Oh, and he regens 1 body an hour. Sanakht, a mage played by one of my players, could do similar defenses using his Spell Pool, but he didn't usually do that, as he couldn't do much else. (this was after he re-wrote him... his original build was able to do that and throw up some of the biggest attacks in the campaign... he and I both decided that Sanakht was over the top at that point and toned him down a fair bit)

[megaplayboy]

Horus-Re would hate a 12d6 double penetrating "stun only" AF 5 attack(150 AP), but then again, so would anybody else ;)

my current campaign is fully cosmic-level, with folks having defenses appropriate for a 20-30 DC game.
The one shtick I came up with for invulnerability? DCV levels, bought "fully invisible". If they hit your "normal" DCV, but not your adjusted DCV, the sfx is that "you hit him with your best shot, to no discernible effect". Waaaay more demoralizing that way.

[Chuckg]

Horus-Re would hate a 12d6 double penetrating "stun only" AF 5 attack(150 AP), but then again, so would anybody else ;)

Damage Reduction and Absorption don't give a damn if you're Penetrating. :)

[megaplayboy]

Damage Reduction and Absorption don't give a damn if you're Penetrating. :)

Pg.95 of FRED, IIRC. The DR doesn't reduce the minimum stun done.
So, on average, 12 stun per hit. Give the guy a gimmicky level bonus with attack, and he hits all five times.
5 x 12 = 60 stun. minus an average roll of 14 on absorption, equals 46 stun on a 5-hit combo.
And I'm not sure whether you can absorb body from a stun-only attack. Probably, but not 100% on that.

He's still darn tough to put down, though. :)

[lemming]

Mr. Invulnerable. He's not a superhero or a supervillain, just a minor celebrity (he's been on various talk shows demonstrating his schtick). He's an NPC who is simply invulnerable (GM fiat is the mechanism). NOTHING (including lack of air, food, etc) can harm him, but otherwise he's a normal man. No superhuman strength, no insanely high CON or BOD or PD, no defenses, no particular combat skills.

Just a regular guy with 100% Damage Reduction. Bury him under the rubble of a collapsed building and he can't move until someone digs him out, but he won't be harmed in the least. Set off a nuke under his chair and he'll be flung high in the air...but he won't be hurt.

Similar to my Mr. Impervious, though mine was also a martial artist with gun skills. I think he was 125 defenses with damage reduction vs NNDs that somehow got by his special def.

Scales was my former tough one. A super strong brick with the ability to shrug off most damage in the campaign. Base 65 def, doubly hardnened with 75% damage reduction. And then a power pool for extra defenses.

[Chuckg]

Pg.95 of FRED, IIRC. The DR doesn't reduce the minimum stun done.

*looks*

Point.

But you might have noticed that we hardened Horus' Armor. So unless you're using a 22-die penetrating attack, no way you're doing 12 STUN.

Remember also that the Absorption is still putting 12 STUN back every time he takes as much as 12 points worth of damage before defenses.

[MechaGM]

*looks*

Point.

But you might have noticed that we hardened Horus' Armor. So unless you're using a 22-die penetrating attack, no way you're doing 12 STUN.

Well, the attack, as listed, has two levels of Penetrating on it, so it will get 12 stun through per hit.


Remember also that the Absorption is still putting 12 STUN back every time he takes as much as 12 points worth of damage before defenses.

I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, but to be clear the amount you roll on your Absorption is how much you can Absorb per Phase, not per hit.

Still, Horus-Re is one tough guy. :)

[Metaphysician]

12d6 Pen x2 AF5 is 150 active point attack, IIRC. Something that big is no mere minor workaround.

And its not that dangerous, seeing as the autofire bit has to hit. Now, if you added 1-Hex Accurate. . .

[TheEmerged]

RE: Penetrating and Damage Reduction Of course, the GM is free to rule that Damage Reduction may be bought with the Hardened advantage to negate Penetrating as an optional rule...

[OddHat]

With the Uber-Invulnerable types, it's best to just go to Adjustment powers and other work-arounds. If the GM allowed them to take enough defences to get past those, he wanted them absolutely invulnerable to everything anyway.

[MechaGM]

12d6 Pen x2 AF5 is 150 active point attack, IIRC. Something that big is no mere minor workaround.

Well, Horus-Re was shown to shrug off a 30d6 EB from the Dr. Destroyer, which is also a 150 AP attack. So, seeing what a different attack at the same AP isn't totally unjustified. ;)


And its not that dangerous, seeing as the autofire bit has to hit. Now, if you added 1-Hex Accurate. . .

Well, yeah, kicking it up another 30 APs would, in fact, make it pretty godawful. :) So would handing that attack to someone with very good CVs.


RE: Penetrating and Damage Reduction Of course, the GM is free to rule that Damage Reduction may be bought with the Hardened advantage to negate Penetrating as an optional rule...

Technically, as near as I can tell, you can make Damage Reduction Hardened... it is a defensive power, and Hardened can be bought for any defensive power. However, I'm not sure it would actually *do* anything by the rules. As you say, a GM can houserule it, but I really don't think its necessary. As has been pointed out, Horus-Re, as is, is one tough hombre... its only a 2x penetrating attack (with autofire 5 hitting with all 5 shots) that is doing a noticable number on him.

[keithcurtis]

"Brute" had a cheesy power I would never allow to a PC (well, once, but with special requiirements).
I bought him Desolid, fully invisible, always on. Then bought his strength "Affects solid world".
Players went crazy trying pushed movethroughs haymakers and other maneuvers. Nothing fazed him. Of course, he was extremely vulnerable to mental powers and could also be taken out with a gas grenade.
The SFX was that he had an aura that shunted energy (including kinetic) into another dimension. The inertia of a punch just never reached him. He never even took knockback, though he could be moved and carried.

Keith "Münchkin Cheese" Curtis

[OddHat]

"Brute" had a cheesy power I would never allow to a PC (well, once, but with special requiirements).
I bought him Desolid, fully invisible, always on. Then bought his strength "Affects solid world".
Players went crazy trying pushed movethroughs haymakers and other maneuvers. Nothing fazed him. Of course, he was extremely vulnerable to mental powers and could also be taken out with a gas grenade.
The SFX was that he had an aura that shunted energy (including kinetic) into another dimension. The inertia of a punch just never reached him. He never even took knockback, though he could be moved and carried.

Keith "Münchkin Cheese" Curtis

The Morigu is in another dimension, using transdimensional images, clairsentience, and a bunch of Transdimensional powers BOECV, all with IPE Hide Source, to play world shaking menace. The Images are the most expensive part. 750 point character, insanely effective, built as a joke and now used as a Phantom Stranger type advisor half the time. Munchkin beyond munchin. ;)

[CrosshairCollie]

I once made a villain team that were all in the 'we have powers that are kinda nifty but have this odd thing that really screws us up sometimes' category. One of them was Savage. 100 STR brick, low DEX/SPD, 50PD, 50ED, 75% Resistant Physical/Mental/Energy Dmg Reduction, about 50 points, double-hardened of every exotic defense (except Mental). What were his drawbacks?

None of his natural defenses were Resistant, and the Damage Reduction was Stun Only. You could beat on him all day long, but he was pretty easily killed. He was also very slow; basically, his power was to be ridiculously musclebound, but not 'armored', so his ridiculous physique robbed him of any flexibility or limberness.

[Pendaran]

just a quick clarify on Horus, the weakness is against darkness/shadow powers, not black magic with the darkness special effect, and the effect of the weakness is that his absorptions don't work and his DR falls to 50%, not 25%.

He can also use the VPP to counteract the weakness on his DR, though that means his STR is fairly limited in fights like that for what he can do with it (no added effects to it, stays at 80, etc.). Among other things his VPP is good for is buffing existing powers with things, like his defenses, which is potentially relevant against the penetrating thing. If for some reason he was just going to burn the VPP to pure defense raising/enhancing (though that reaaaallly, reaaallllly limits his capabilities overall), he'd probably be a bit tougher than usual at that.

[Snake Gandhi]

According to my GM, my PC "Ubermech' is the toughest in the game when is comes to straight physical damage. I posted him in the "Show me a PC' Thread up the page a bit.

[Niles]

Horus-Re would hate a 12d6 double penetrating "stun only" AF 5 attack(150 AP), but then again, so would anybody else ;)
I get 210 AP (autofire is an additional +1 advantage on a power that bypasses normal defences) and that attack wouldn't do one stun to Bulletproof of the Galactic Champions.

[CrosshairCollie]

I get 210 AP (autofire is an additional +1 advantage on a power that bypasses normal defences) and that attack wouldn't do one stun to Bulletproof of the Galactic Champions.

That attack still works against normal defenses ... attacks that bypass normal defenses are things like NNDs, Drains or Ego Attacks. It's still just +1/2.

[gewing]

I forget the characters real name, Ivan maybe? but we called him Bodyman.

He was not the first of the type, but...

75 % PD and ED DR, Resistant.

40+ body

Regen about 3/turn.

He survived LICKING a Hellbore Grenade. :nonp: We took out TANKS with them.

[gewing]

One I might play next chance I get is SORT of like this, natural DR, but a suit of armor because bullets HURT! ;)



The Paladine - An NPC Hero with the personality of the Tick.

He has Armor 10/10 OIF as Medieval looking armor made of space-age materials. ( ceramics, titanium, etc, etc )
But that is just his costume.
His own flesh is 50 PD 50 ED Resistant Hardened x2
Energy Damage Reduction 75%
Physical Damage Reduction 75%
25 Power Defense Resistant, Hardened

Plus a 'Divine Touch' as a Lay on Hands kind of thing with 8d6 Simplified Healing, can heal limbs.
AND 3 BODY of Regeneration

And a multipower of Invulnerability Tricks including Desolid, invisible to touch group, and 'I Block it with my Body!' as Missile Deflection.

His helmet has a bit of (5 points) Sight and Hearing flash defense.

And 0, None, Zip, Not a point of mental defense.
and Psych Lim: Easily Distracted and given to Non Sequitors ( Very Common, Strong )

[Niles]

That attack still works against normal defenses ... attacks that bypass normal defenses are things like NNDs, Drains or Ego Attacks. It's still just +1/2.
Includes but is not limited too... The whole point of that power constuct is to bypass normal defenses.

[MechaGM]

Includes but is not limited too... The whole point of that power constuct is to bypass normal defenses.

Well, I just ran it through Hero Designer and it comes out to 150 AP (whereas an NND Autofire comes out to 210). Now, I'm not positive that Hero Designer has it totally right, but they're pretty good about getting this sort of thing right in my experience.

*shrug*

[D?M]

I like reading these sorts of threads...honest.
Posting fave characters that are like nigh-invulnerable, broken, whatever.

IN all of of the readers that solicit these forums, there are always some party-pooper to state negativity: "People that build these types shouldnt play" or "Whats the use of building them, no fun in able to destroy everything."

Got a 350-pt character up once for opinion and got nothing but rudeness and attitude. COSMIC was her name.

Keep at it, guys and gals...its coll see your stuff. :)

[Hawksmoor]

The Morigu is in another dimension, using transdimensional images, clairsentience, and a bunch of Transdimensional powers BOECV, all with IPE Hide Source, to play world shaking menace. The Images are the most expensive part. 750 point character, insanely effective, built as a joke and now used as a Phantom Stranger type advisor half the time. Munchkin beyond munchin. ;)

Not Frickin Funny!

Our group Vanguard was *dissected* by a guy built like this called Ryder. The only way we won was he got bored gutting PCs and wandered off. After about 6 months of the player characters hiding in remote parts of the world we regrouped and in about a year of Real Time took ole Ryder on in his home dimension. Which promptly imploded.

But that was a Moses game. And Moses Games have Points! Vanguard's Point was Heroes don't always win...which meant we never really won anything, anytime, or anywhere.

Hawksmoor