Accusations of "cheating" by HERO at RPG.Net...

[Yamo]

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43787

It's a long, sad thread. :(

[Agent Escafarc]

What drives me nuts is that this argument between HERO Fans and HERO Haters has been going on almost 20 years:(

[keithcurtis]

I'd like to read th thread, but Stupid rpg.net can never remember when I am logged in. It keeps telling me I don't have access to view the second page. This is not a unique occurence on their website.

Keith "sigh..." Curtis

[rjcurrie]

I believe the thread may have been killed by the moderators because of the ugliness that it descended into.

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by rjcurrie
I believe the thread may have been killed by the moderators because of the ugliness that it descended into.

That bad?
No wonder I couldn't find it by searching.

Keith "we may be contrary round these parts, but at least we're civil" Curtis

[Trebuchet]

What exactly are they considering HERO to be cheating in regard to? If they say having a superior game system is somehow "cheating", then I guess they've got us cold. ;)

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by Trebuchet
What exactly are they considering HERO to be cheating in regard to? If they say having a superior game system is somehow "cheating", then I guess they've got us cold. ;)

They were claiming we were stuffing the ballet box by getting non-gamers to vote.

[TheEmerged]

Love to hear their definition of a gamer, then :D

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Love to hear their definition of a gamer, then :D

Someone who doesn't play Hero, obviously.

[lemming]

Ack. So I did a quick search, wound up reading a different thread on the ballots. Someone posted a picture of "Doom of Odin" by Avalanche Press. Oh my. so I checked out the Avalanche Press website. They seem to be going for a certain demographic. I'm pretty certain that the Aztec wore different outfits. :rolleyes:

[Blue]

LoL, yeh those Nordic chicks didn't care much about the elements I guess. And if they all looked like that, what viking man would find time to go pillage?

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by lemming
Ack. So I did a quick search, wound up reading a different thread on the ballots. Someone posted a picture of "Doom of Odin" by Avalanche Press. Oh my. so I checked out the Avalanche Press website. They seem to be going for a certain demographic. I'm pretty certain that the Aztec wore different outfits. :rolleyes:

I agree...

Cheesecake at its "finest."
::running for his fork:: :D

[Harvester]

I have played GURPS several years now and I bought Hero System 5th Edition about 8 months ago. I like both systems. Both have good points and I like to use GURPS for realistic campaigns and someday I use Hero for not so realistic campaign :). I don't get it, why people can't like both system. There is enough room for generic systems and everybody can pick up system which he likes the best. It doesn't change anything to argue about stupid things.

- Harvester -

[Bartman]

I'm with you Harvester. The RPG holy warriors get a bit on my nerves as well.

[nHammer]

Personally, I think non-gamers shouldn't vote (or shouldn't be encouraged to vote). If you have no idea what the games are, you shouldn't vote.

[Blue]

Even at that, the problem with things like this is that in most cases folks haven't played ALL of the games.

I looked at the list and wound up voting in only the suggested HERO related categories because those were the only ones for which I had any frame of reference. For example, I don't play CCGs and didn't recognize most of the ones listed. I think most people voting tend to pick something in each category that "sounds good", same way that people at home watching the oscars have typically only seen one or two out of the five nominees so they vote for the one they know and like.

Solution: GAMA should give us copies of everything. To review of course :D

[Steve Long]

Actually, one of the benefits to being a member of the Academy is that companies with lots of money (e.g., Kenzer & Co.) or with low cost-of-goods products (e.g., Looney Labs) often send out copies of their games to Academy members to drum up votes. I probably received at least $200 in review product of that sort this year, for example.

[SuperPheemy]

Nothing like a couple of unsolicited bribes to fill out one's game library, eh? I might have to get me one o' dem Acadamy memberships.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, that scam's hard to beat. How do I sign up again?

[Blue]

I think I looked at the application a year or two ago. I think you had to meet a publishing requirement (Something like two items published in gaming products, to prove you are an industry pro or semi-pro). Alas, I remain an enthusiastic amature.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by nHammer
Personally, I think non-gamers shouldn't vote (or shouldn't be encouraged to vote). If you have no idea what the games are, you shouldn't vote.
agreed.

[Killer Shrike]

ignore--double post

[nHammer]

Originally posted by Blue
Even at that, the problem with things like this is that in most cases folks haven't played ALL of the games.

I looked at the list and wound up voting in only the suggested HERO related categories because those were the only ones for which I had any frame of reference. For example, I don't play CCGs and didn't recognize most of the ones listed. I think most people voting tend to pick something in each category that "sounds good", same way that people at home watching the oscars have typically only seen one or two out of the five nominees so they vote for the one they know and like.

Solution: GAMA should give us copies of everything. To review of course :D

You at least have an understanding of gaming, whether it be roleplaying, wargaming, or CCGs, you've played.

Getting people to vote for gaming awards if they have never gamed is wrong.(IMO)

[Starcorp Man]

And how was this supposedly done?

[Blue]

I think nHammer is referring to getting family/friends who don't play to vote just because you want more votes.

I tend to agree, much as I'd still like to see Hero/DOJ overcome the obstacle put in front of them. And isn't that what being a superhero is all about? :D

But I'm saying in my earlier post that Technically voting in a category where you haven't seen all of the games would be wrong, because you're voting under a supposition about all the other games that you haven't played. It's really the same thing.

Not that I'm talking anyone out of voting. Pleae do. I'm just saying that NONE of the public voters are innocent, because chances are slim that they've played all of the nominees in each category. Just making a semantics argument folks.

[Tclynch]

The rules call for open voting, so.....

[Starcorp Man]

Funny, so only Hero/DOJ does that too, the guy is probably ticked because he didn't have enough family members to help him :)

Rock the Vote.

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Blue
Not that I'm talking anyone out of voting. Pleae do. I'm just saying that NONE of the public voters are innocent, because chances are slim that they've played all of the nominees in each category. Just making a semantics argument folks.

But by that criterion, you would invalidate the votes of practically every election or public poll on earth. Few people take the time to <i>really</i> research whatever they vote on. For example, has anybody (besides Academy members) bothered to look up the requirements for each category to make sure even one game on the list qualifies? What points are the Academy judging by? And so on.

A public vote (especially of this nature) is a popularity contest. If your game has been heard of enough for someone to vote for it, you deserve the vote. If someone is voting in a category about which they are <i>totally</i> clueless, ie.e flipping a coin, then that's wrong. That's probably why they have separate voting for Academy members and the general public.

Keith "Only voted for games I've played" Curtis

[Super Squirrel]

I'll be honest. I hate votes. They really get down to "pi-" errr who can "uri-" errr, um, "who has the biggest gun" contests. I don't bother with most voting processes. In fact, I probably would have been lazy and not voted for Hero. But in this case it was wrong. This was as wrong as when Buffy's Musical Episode got "accidently" left off the ballot for the Emmy. No special apology or anything. So in this case I made it an acception to go in.

So those people at RPG.net that are whining can waste their time typing as far as I'm concerned. They need to take it up with Origins if they have a problem. Origins, as far as I'm concerned, is the one that cheated the vote system.

[Blue]

Originally posted by keithcurtis
But by that criterion, you would invalidate the votes of practically every election or public poll on earth.

Yes. I'd vote for Anarchy, but that would be acting within the system, man ;)

Don't mind me. I was just trying to be difficult. I'll have to make it a point not to post when I'm bored.

[tesuji]

for what its worth, i consider the accusation of cheating to be inappropriate.

Steve long personally encouraging his fans to get their spouses, children and coworkers in addition to their gaming group, involved in this voting is no more cheating than the various sleazy telephone scams where they use various means to encourage you to bring your "friends and family" over to their system. What was it that commercial said "So, you mean you want us all to work for the phone company."

Since the origins award is a fabulous marketing tool, it seems only reasonable for Long and HERO games to follow the sound and proven marketting strategies and techiques used by those very telephone coompanies campaigns we all are so fond of.

Why, heck, any day now, we may start getting cold calls during supper asking if we want to switch our DND game to fantasy HERO and how they can place the order for us right now.

heck, we may even...

crap, gotta go, the phone's ringing...

later

[Balok]

Votes in *national elections* are based on criteria such as "which political party I belong to", "who looks the best", and "which candidate my friend Bill likes".

The simple fact is, there are folks voting who understand games, and folks voting who don't. That's the drawback of an open voting system. But since there's a level playing field -- the folks over at RPG.NET can also organize a campaign to get people to vote for their favorites -- it's hardly cheating.

Perhaps if they selected grapes from a different part of the vineyard, their whine wouldn't be so sour.