Shapeshift/Multiform and transitional forms

[feywulf]

I've got a werewolf character who can be in human form, werewolf form, and any number of transitional inbetween forms.

In the beastiary werewolves are built with multiform. I tend to build them with shapeshift(with the adder for a limited group of shapes to represent inbetween forms) and powers only in "hero id". Some powers can be turned on partially, while some are either all the way on, or all the way off.

So my question for the hero community is this: As a GM would you allow shapeshift or multiform to be turned partially on to represent inbetween forms, or would you make the player buy an adder or advantage to get that benefit?

Given that the Transform power causes partial appearance changes without an adder, and partial stats/powers changes with an advantage, i would probably have multiform work in a similar way, but shapeshift doesn't cause stat changes, so it might be different.

[Aroooo]

I'd have to err on the side of simplicity and not allow it on the multipower, but allow it on the shapeshift with the appropriate advantages/adders.

Aroooo

[TheEmerged]

Generally, I wouldn't allow a "partial multiform". What you're talking about sounds a lot more like a Multipower with Variable slots instead of Ultra slots to me.

[feywulf]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Generally, I wouldn't allow a "partial multiform". What you're talking about sounds a lot more like a Multipower with Variable slots instead of Ultra slots to me.

Multipower? Generally multiform isn't allowed within multipowers, and multiform has a built in method of representing different forms so a multipower with a number of multiform powers bought in it would probably not be the way to go.

Inbetween forms could be represented by buying extra forms, but having 3 inbetween states isn't as valuable as having 3 additional totally different unique forms with different powers. Having a dozen incrementally different inbetween forms would cost alot if bought as 12 extra forms, and wouldn't provide much advantage over having 3 inbetween forms.

Multiform is probably a discrete on or off power, but i think shapeshift should be a power that can be partially on. If shapeshift is ruled by a GM to be a discrete all the way on or totally turned off power, then to get transitional forms you could buy the adders for up to 4 different forms(+5) or limited group(+10). Its not a huge deal as far as price goes, but i was curious as to who thinks transitional forms should be a default feature or not for shapeshift.

[Agent Escafarc]

There is no rule against Multiform in a Multipower. Only Special Powers need GM's permission and it's a Standard Power.

[Zaratustra]

For that sort of stuff, I made a power called Change Form, which is a kind of superset of Growth, Shrinking and Density Increase powers. It is bought in levels, where each level's cost varies depending on the bonus it gives:



Ability Cost
Characteristics Normal
-1 KB 2
-1 PER to notice 3
+1 DCV 5
x2 Reach 5

+1 KB -2
+1 PER to notice -3
-1 DCV -5


Each level must cost at least 1 point. Mass and size increase and decrease are purely special effects.

With these costs, Growth goes to 5 points, Shrinking to 10 and DI to 11 points.

[TheEmerged]

I didn't explain myself sufficiently, let me try again.

If I understand what the original poster is asking, it's for something akin to the ability of some Marvel weres (I'm drawing a blank on the names here: Wolfbane or something like that?) to have two extreme forms with intermittent forms with advantages of each. I made the (possibly inaccurate) assumption that there is a reason to be in either extreme form. One (failed) example of what I *think* is being asked for is the Sir Galahad writeup in European Enemies.

What I was suggesting was a Multipower that uses variable slots instead of the usual "ulta" slots -- like the following

60 pt Pool (60)
12m +60 STR (60 active)
12m +20 DEX (60 active)

A character with such a pool would have two extreme forms -- one with +60 STR, and one with +20 DEX. The character could also "mingle" the forms by assigning the points in a less than absolute fashion -- +30 STR +10 DEX for example.

[Bullseye]

I like the multipower idea. With it, you don't need shapeshift or multiform (with the GM's permission of course.) Remember that physical changes can be part of power activation and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with intermediate forms from various combinations of powers in variable multipower slots, alone or in combination with powers outside the slot.

[feywulf]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
I didn't explain myself sufficiently, let me try again.

If I understand what the original poster is asking, it's for something akin to the ability of some Marvel weres (I'm drawing a blank on the names here: Wolfbane or something like that?) to have two extreme forms with intermittent forms with advantages of each.


Wolfsbane does have that abbility with her shapeshifting.

My question wasn't specific to cases where the alternate form has different powers. If there was a mutant named Mr Blue with one "super power" which makes his skin blue, and he bought it at the basic level 1 form visual change, could he partially turn his power on and be 50% blue, or would he have to pay more to get the option of intermediate shapeshifting?

An example with abbilities linked to alternate forms, would be if She Hulk could partially hulk out, or just hulk out part of her body.



I made the (possibly inaccurate) assumption that there is a reason to be in either extreme form. One (failed) example of what I *think* is being asked for is the Sir Galahad writeup in European Enemies.

What I was suggesting was a Multipower that uses variable slots instead of the usual "ulta" slots -- like the following

60 pt Pool (60)
12m +60 STR (60 active)
12m +20 DEX (60 active)

A character with such a pool would have two extreme forms -- one with +60 STR, and one with +20 DEX. The character could also "mingle" the forms by assigning the points in a less than absolute fashion -- +30 STR +10 DEX for example.

Would those slots be linked to shapeshift(one linked ot when shapeshift is turned on, and the other linked to shapeshift being turned off), or do you agree with Bullseye's statement that physical changes can be part of power activation?

[TheEmerged]

Yeah, I could see linking this to shapeshift IF there were some limitation involved with shapeshifting itself.

Again, the multiform suggestion assumes there are advantages to both extremes -- something that isn't true for She Hulk, if I recall her properly.

[feywulf]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Yeah, I could see linking this to shapeshift IF there were some limitation involved with shapeshifting itself.

A limitation such as most people who see you in a non-human form having a gut reaction to grab a burning torch or pitchfork and run you out of town and/or kill you. The shapeshifting could also have extratime, and increased endurance cost and/or limited charges per day.

For my weres i have their powers bought with only in "hero id", "hero id" being defined as shapeshifted into were-form.


Again, the multiform suggestion assumes there are advantages to both extremes -- something that isn't true for She Hulk, if I recall her properly.

With multiform, there doesn't have to be an advantage to each form, though there usually is. For She Hulk, there are the social advantages of not being an undisguisable 7ft tall green amazon some of the time. Its easier to hide or blend in if you look like an ordinary person.