My Purchases and Non

[Eodin]

Before I start, I really hope this doesn't turn into a flame war like my '5ER likes and dislikes' thread became. This is just my self-starter of what I have, and what I do and don't intend to buy. It's intended to give DOJ an idea of what one of their customers has and may or may not buy, period. Anyone who wants to tack their future purchases and non-purchases plans onto this is welcome. If you disagree with someone's reasons for purchasing or not purchasing a product, please take that to another thread.

Steve, et. al,
The HERO 5th edition products that I have are:

<b>Hero 5th</b> and <b>Hero 5th Rev.</b>
Like the material in 5ER, hate the paper. I come from the printing industry, I know it's durable. Hard on my eyes, texture is rough, not a fan. Been a HERO gamer since 1981-82, won't be buying <i>Sidekick</i> any time in the forseeable future as I just don't need it.

<hr>

<b>Star Hero</b>
I <b>love</b> Science fiction, especially <i>Star Trek</i> :) but I'm not an astronomy dweeb, so info about Dyson spheres, green/yellow/red zones, etc. was very useful. Just about any of the <i>Star Hero</i> stuff gets my purchase, as long as it's got stuff that's useful for me.

<b>Terran Empire</b>
I enjoyed it, but it lacks the flash of Decipher's Trek books. As a setting book, it could really use adventure supplements like the <i>Traveller's Digest</i> kind of thing. Of course, we've already heard that those don't make money, so my money can't go there. Also, no starship deck plans like in the Traveller supplements or the FASA Trek supplements, which for me is a detractor. Again, Steve's already commented on the time-to-cost ratio of those things, but still saddening.

<b>Alien Wars</b>
Got it, good military background stuff to borrow. I've never been in the military, though my dad was a navy CB during Korea, so it's useful. Beyond that, won't be using much of it, but glad I bought it.

<b>Spacer's Toolkit</b>
Got it, some good stuff, but pitifully lacking in layouts of vehicles and deck plans as above. If it had deckplans and such, I would have bought it right away, instead of waiting for a sale.

<hr>

<b>Fantasy Hero</b>
Overall, I liked Fantasy Hero, and was happy to get it. Some info I use, some I don't need, but to me it's like having an encyclopedia -- better to have it there and not need it than to need it and not be able to find it.
I'm a bit more picky in my Fantasy Hero purchases than my other purchases.

<b>FH Grimoire I</b>
Liked it, great source material. Don't know if I'll get FHG2 unless I see it on sale and I have the spare money.

<b>Hero System Bestiary</b>
Definitely glad I got it.

<b>Monsters, Minions, and Marauders</b>
Got it on sale, only somewhat useful since I don't run a TurAge campaign.

<b>Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds</b>
Got it on sale, great for ready-built maps and characters I can use. Don't care for the storyline that much (personal preferences - hate stories of demons and devils and such, like stories with goblins and dragons and such.)
Hoping there will be a <b>Star Hero Battlegrounds</b> to buy.

<hr>

<b>Dark Champions</b>
Loads of useful info, glad I bought it. Really wish there had been more info on 'Danger International' spies and mercs, less on Champions comic book.
I'll take a look at Hudson City, but probably won't get it (or Vibora Bay).


<b>The Ultimate Vehicle</b>
A definite had to have.

<b>The Ultimate Martial Artist</b>
A definite had to have.

<b>Ninja Hero</b>
Useful and glad I got it (and it has floorplans!)

<hr>

<b>Champions</b>
I won't be buying ANY Champions products...not my cup of tea these days, even though I played a LOT of Champions in college. I'm only interested in HEROic level games.

<b>Pulp Hero</b>
If the quality and information are as good as Dark Champions, I'll be getting that for sure.

<b>Western Hero</b>
It would have to be as good as Dark Champions, meaning it would have everything I needed to run <i>Bonanza</i> (four-color style), <i>El Dorado</i>, <i>Rawhide</i>, <i>Big Valley</i> as well as <i>Good, Bad, and Ugly</i>, <i>Mule for Sister Sara</i> styles of campaigns.

<b>Horror Hero</b>, <b>Cyber Hero</b>
Doubt it. Horror is not my thing (nor is Halloween), never been interested in Cyber. Played a couple of games with a GM who was into Cyber stories, just wasn't my cup of tea.

<hr>
2005 Scheduled Items.

Looking at the 2005 Schedule, I only see half a dozen books that hold any interest for me, and not all of those are definite purchases.
<b>The Ultimate Metamorph</b>
If it's as good as I hope, a definite buy.

<b>Everyman</b>
Depends on the price.

<b>Worlds of Empire</b>
If the detail is good, a definite buy.

<b>Pulp Hero</b> and <b>Astounding Hero Tales</b> and <b>Masterminds and Madment</b>
If as good as Dark Champions, definite buys.

<b>Asian Bestiary</b> and <b>Enchanted Items</b>
Susano's stuff is always high caliber, but I'm not sure how much of it I'd use, so it's a definite maybe.
Enchanted items would have to equal or exceed the material in FHG1 and the stuff I've posted on the boards here to be a buy for me.

Steve,
Hope this kind of input helps.

[Mark Taylor]

I'm not generally a Superheroes roleplayer. I have everything that isn't Champions, and I don't see anything that isn't Champions on the release schedule right now that I won't buy.

I also have USPD and The Mystic World even though they're Champions books because they're useful in the genres I play. Likewise, I'm likely to buy future Champions books which come out if I consider them directly relevant to other genres for whatever reason.

In contrast to Eodin, I really hope that DOJ release both Cyber HERO and Horror HERO, and will definitely buy both of them and any supplementary material for them. To be honest, if HERO System seeks to be truly universal, these two are an essential part of the family of genre books. Without them the coverage of core RPG genres would be incomplete.

[Enforcer84]

Hmm. I actually buy some stuff I don't need or use. It's habit. I really am not into Star HERO at all but I bought most of it when I had the desposible cash mostly for aliens to populate my Champions Universe.
I don't get to play much Fantasy Hero, but I love the genre and the books are really really good. I bought them all and plan to use them for fun stuff even if I never get to play
Champions is my cup of tea and the only one I get to play regularly. I have all the champions items save for Battlegrounds and I am still planning on that one when I have more disposable income.

As far as other Genres, I'll pretty much avoid, Western, Horror, and maybe Cyber. I gots what I wants. Pulp HERO on the other hand will help tremendously spend my off time.

And as long as there are HD packs for the books I will be happy.

[Alric]

For starship, and other, deck plans you might want to check out RPG Now. Several companies are making scaled tiles for various terrain and some starship sets have started showing up.

Most are square grid but a few are hex based. I find the square grid still works ok for GURPS and Hero.

[Koshka]

Let's see ...

I have 5th and 5ER -- not selling my 5th, I got Steve and Darren to autograph it :) . Plus one copy of Sidekick and a few plans to convert a con game or two over to Sidekick rules.

I don't have Ultimate Mystic yet, it wasn't in last time I was at my FLGS. I have the other Ultimate books, and will be getting Ultimate Mystic. If other Ultimate books stay as useful, I'll be getting them.

Champions: if I don't have everything, I'm pretty close.

Dark Champions: well, with only one book in the line so far, it's easy to be complete ;) . Hudson City and DC:TAS will be definite buys. The other books are tempting, but unless we see an upswing at work in 2005 I may have to hold off unless I actually get into or start a DC game.

Star Hero: have the core book, both setting books, and Spacer's Toolkit. I don't know about Worlds of Empire -- with no SH game in the foreseeable future, it's hard to justify it when I could just use what's in the setting books leavened with a certain amount of swiping from fiction.

Fantasy Hero: have the core book and Turakian Age. Also picked up Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds because I like adventures and wanted to put my vote in. With no FH game on the horizon, I can't justify buying the rest of the line -- but I will continue to buy setting books, because they're good reads and can be used for other purposes.

Ninja Hero: have it.

Pulp Hero: will definitely buy this and Astounding Hero Tales. Will probably get Masterminds and Madmen, since it looks like I could slot them into my Golden Age game with a little tweaking.

Horror Hero/Cyber Hero/Western Hero: I'd have to take a look. Cyber Hero is probably the least likely, since I'm not that familiar with the cyberpunk genre -- oh, I've read Neuromancer, but not much more.

[Susano]

<b>Asian Bestiary</b> and <b>Enchanted Items</b>
Susano's stuff is always high caliber, but I'm not sure how much of it I'd use, so it's a definite maybe.


The HERO SYSTEM ASIAN BESTIARY is more than a fantasy suppliment (IMO). I think it can be used by people running FH games (natch), NH games (natch squared), and also pulp era games (a lot of the stuff in the book makes for good "lost world" inhabitents). You could also adapt some of the creatures to modern day urban magic and/or horror settings, and a few creatures could challenge a super hero (and even a whole team).

Oh course, as the writer, I might be a tad biased. :)

[MadKestrel]

It's easy to see from this thread that there are many different interests among Hero players. We have two Hero GMs at our house -- my husband does super-heroic and I do herioc level games.

We both like to create our own worlds though, so many of the worldbooks don't see much use at our house, if we bother to purchase them. Until a few years ago, we owned everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) ever published for Champions or Hero System. We had to clear out much weight in order to move, so most of the really old stuff went away. (Thank-you eBay.)

Now, since our collection is no longer complete, we're more selective. We try to buy only the products we will use. If it gets read for inspiration, that counts as use.

Current HERO stuff we own:

5th Ed.
Resource Kit
Bestiary
Designer (both versions)
Sidekick (six copies so far and building!)
[Note: we won't buy 5thER because we don't like the paper. It is too big and too hard to read. None of our Hero player friends want it either.]

Champions (doesn't really get used, found it in his closet a few weeks back, didn't even remember buying it)
Millenium City (bought on a lark, collects dust)
UNTIL Database (Used all of the time!!!)
Conquerors, Killer & Crooks
Ultimate Martial Artist (used regularly)
Ultimate Brick (haven't used yet)
Ultimate Vehicle (just got -- will be used semi-regularly)

We don't own Star Hero products and probably won't. We like sci-fi, but have never played a sci-fi related RPG that we enjoyed.

Fantasy Hero -- bought it. Hated it. Lots of little nit-noy things about it bothered me, but it just wasn't as good as 4th ed was, so I got rid of it out of disappointment.

I just bought Grimoire this week. It's pretty good. I will consider buying the second Grimoire, but at this time, I can't see us ever purchasing any world settings for FH.

Dark Champions (Want to use extensively)

As for future purchases, we'll definitely pick up: Ultimate Mystic and Gadgets & Gear of those that are out.

Future releases: We'll definitely purchase DC: TAS, UNTIL Database II, Everyman, Ultimate Mentalist, and probably Masterminds & Madmen.

We may purchase for our own use: Predators, Underworld and Pulp Hero.

Future probable gift purchases: Ninja Hero, Teen Champions, TUV, Bestiary & Grimoire.

We're very anxious to see the Ultimate Gadgeteer and the Ultimate Mentalist on the shelves and will likely buy both. (husband still uses his 4th ed copy of Mentalist all of the time).

[mudpyr8]

At this point I own nearly all Hero books, except for:

Not running supers now so don't really need them:
Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth
Galactic Champs (beyond my scope of play)
UNTIL
Vibora Bay
Shades of Black
Alien Wars

Future Purchases:
Mystic World
Villainy Amok: handy for cons and quick ideas for classic champs
Dark Champions: The Animated Series
UNTIL Superpowers Database II
Predators
The Ultimate Metamorph
The Underworld Sourcebook
Villains, Vandals, And Vermin
The HERO System Equipment Guide
The HERO System Combat Handbook
The Ultimate Speedster
Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers
The Ultimate Mentalist
Enchanted Items - As long as it isn't a Gadgets & Gear redux

Maybe - Wait and See:
Everyman
Teen Champions: Hopefull this will have a solid treatment of Buffy/Angel style games.
Hidden Lands: I hope this will not be a topical treatment of these areas (already have GURPS Atlantis and GURPS Places of Mystery which are generic enough) but will have good, gamable information.
The Asian Bestiary

No Purchase Necessary:
Champions Worldwide: books about heroes don't interest me because my stories are about heroes. Villains are great however, and I might pick it up to use them as villains.
Pulp Hero: No interest whatsoever
Masterminds And Madmen

What are you thinking - Please help me understand:
Astounding Hero Tales: I don't get it. There are so many books out there. Why publish this?

What I would like to see:
Horror Hero:

Fun, gamable rules on sanity and terror
Stock horror powers that can be added to any creature
Ritual magic (which may be in Mystic Worlds) - just a good treatment of instanity inducing cthulhian magic
Genre review from splatterpunk to psychological horror - and how to game them out
Treatment of monster characters to support a Hudson City by Night game (players as vamps, werewolves, shades, demons, etc.)
How to run a monster hunting game (ala Buffy, Angel, Hunter the Reckoning, Blade)
How to incorporate these rules into another setting - since this book wouldn't be presented with its own setting (like Cthulhu)
Cyber Hero:

complete lists of cyberwear, vehicles, and near future arms
gamable, unexclusive rules on netrunning (so you don't ignore the rest of the group)
cash based system for purchasing gear and cyberware - Cyberpunk is all about the money and what you do with it
which books to use that dovetail nicely (e.g. Underworld Sourcebook & Predators)

I would certainly rather see either of these before Pulp Hero. There is a hole in the market for good treatments of these genres, but I recognize that hole may exist because there is no business case to fill it.

[AlHazred]

I took the opportunity of the Christmas break to buy or order all the Hero stuff I'm missing (which isn't much). I find that even books I'm unlikely to use as-is tend to inspire me in ways helpful to games I do run.

Given that, I'm looking forward to Hero Designer 3, Pulp Hero and supplements, Fantasy Hero supplements (both Valdorian and Turakian), and other books in the Ultimate/generic lines.

I felt that the original Horror Hero was weak, but I'd love to buy a really tight Hero supplement on the horror genre. I thought DEMON was tightly-written, for instance, and would love to see a similar serious treatment.

[Mark Taylor]

...with the news about Guardians of Order hitting the financial wall...

Got any links on that? I haven't seen anything about it yet.

[AlHazred]

My understanding of GoO is that they hit the financial wall due to the low value of the US dollar (they're Canadian and do most of their business in the US), not that they couldn't sell enough product (they claim their sales have consistently gone up significantly every year).

[Mark Taylor]

The company will supposedly be making a formal press release shortly.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=165593

www.iguardians.net/boards/showthread.php?p=29921#post29921

Thanks.

[Lord Mhoram]

My understanding of GoO is that they hit the financial wall due to the low value of the US dollar (they're Canadian and do most of their business in the US), not that they couldn't sell enough product (they claim their sales have consistently gone up significantly every year).

Yeah. First Goldrush going into re-orginization mode, and then this. I hope GoO pulls it off. The SAS stuff for setting was great and I loved thier world.

I saw the threads but I didn't want to say anything until Mark had put out the formal press release.

[rjcurrie]

I really don't care about the "hows and whys" for their failure. If it was something foolish like exchange rates then the company deserves to fail [and I only say this because you can adjust the cost of the books for the exchange rate, and if sales volumes are really as high as they stated there would have been no loss of profit]. Downsizing and possibly going out of business are my concerns if those issues are also effecting Hero Games.

Guardians of Order appears to be on the verge of becoming a one man staff. Gold Rush Games has been at that point for some time. When I see posts from the people in charge of Hero Games about poor sales and marketing surveys I of course get a little concerned. No one wants to see Hero Games experience downsizing or worse, which is why I made the post about possibly refocusing their efforts into things of greater fan interest.
The problem with just raising prices to make up for the exchange rates is that often prices need to be set months in advance in order to accomodate distributors and allow substantial pre-ordering time. And since US-based distributors only want to deal in American money, those prices need to be set in American dollars. And once a product is out in the retail chain, I'm not sure how easy it is to change its suggested price -- I think this also takes several months. You also face the risk of pricing yourself too high for the market -- especially when you're already towards the high end like GoO -- and thus, selling even less books.

Trust me, the falling America dollar is causing a lot of problems for Canadian companies that do most of their business in the U.S.

[rjcurrie]

I'm not saying that the exchange rate was the sole cause of GoO's problems. I suspect it wasn't. But I do really think you are underestimating how much of a difference even a few percentage points of profit can make to a company's bottom line -- especially in an industry like adventure gaming where companies are often existing on very thin margins because there appears to be a very real upper limit on what people will pay for games.

[MadKestrel]

The company will supposedly be making a formal press release shortly.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=165593

www.iguardians.net/boards/showthread.php?p=29921#post29921

GoO has made an annoucement that they are NOT going out of business.

http://www.iguardians.net/

The actual announcement is a pop-up and I was too lazy to go fishing for the link.

[GestaltBennie]

Compared to two years ago, my income as a freelancer is down 30-35% on the Canadian dollar's exchange rate alone.

Imagine yourself taking a 30% paycut. Now ask Darren how the market's slumped in the last two years and place that on top of the exchange rate slump. That should bring home GOO's financial problems to anyone who has problems understanding them.

[Blue]

There's little to no chance of me running a sci-fi game. Much as I like them, if my team wants to play them, they'll play in another player's campaign (that is not HERO based). This is my first ever concession to "not buying a hero product", as up til now I have them all. So anything new for Star Hero I won't be going for.

There are already 5 fantasy campaigns going, with no room for a new one. So I won't be doing FH anytime in the next few years. I have all the current FH supplements. I probably won't buy new ones.

I will continue to buy all of the Ultimate line, the Gadget, Superpower, and other books. I will buy all organization sourcebooks. I'll buy any more adventures that come out (though those are rare as standalone products). I'll buy anything DC related, even though ther's a snowball's chance of getting a chance to run it.

[The Gecko]

As I recently got back into Hero after a long hiatus, my collection is rather scant at the moment.

5e, don't have revised yet and probably won't get it until after I'ved buffed up my collection a bit more.

Beastiary. the only book I'm a little disappointed with, many of the animal stats fail reality checks and could use some rewriting.

Ultimate Martial Artist, frickin' awesome. Makes me want to play a Martial Artist in any genre.

Ultimate Mystic, haven't had much of a chance to plumb it in better depth, but looks pretty good.

Star Hero, awesome. Rekindled my love for sci-fi.

Terran Empire and Alien Wars, both very well done and quite good, but the exceptional quality of The Turkian Age puts both to shame.

The Turakian Age, what a setting book ought to be like.

The Spacer's Toolkit, just plain useful.

Fantasy Hero, awesome.

My next purchase will probably be The Ultimate Vehicle. After that I don't know. This year I'm definitely getting The Ultimate Mentalist, Worlds of the Empire, and Pulp Hero.


Craig

[Wanderer]

Stating our personal Hero buying lists ? Fancy, let's see. I'm mostly interested into Bronze/Iron Age cinematic superheroic stuff, high fantasy, and cinematic martial arts: pretty much any Champions stuff (more so for rules stuff, and cosmic/mystical superheroics, slightly less setting, only peripherally cities, adventures and street level stuff), Ninja Hero, all the Fantasy Hero stuff that may be useful for Champions (I prefer other systems/settings for fantasy, such as Ars Magica and Mage), maybe the Star Hero stuff that may be useful for Galactic Champions (I'm not much interested in Space Opera SF RPGs, a bit more in Cyberpunk). I'm not much interested in "modern" action/adventure stuff, either, but I'll get what may be useful for Iron Age superheroics.

Already bought stuff

Hero 5th
Hero 5th Revised (still in shipping)
Champions
UNTIL Superpowers Database
Champions Universe
Conquerers, Killers & Crooks
Ninja Hero
Millennium City
Ultimate Vehicle
Fantasy Hero
VIPER
Fantasy Grimoire I & II
Champions Battlegrounds
UNTIL
Gadgets & Gear
Ultimate Brick
Reality Storm
Galactic Champions
Mystic World
Dark Champions
Arcane Adversaries
DEMON
Ultimate Mystic
Ultimate Martial Artist

Stuff I'm considering to buy if I get a good price
Star Hero
Vibora Bay
Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds (very cheap)
Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth
Terran Empire (very cheap)
Alien Wars (very cheap)
Spacer's Toolkit (very cheap)
Turakian Age (very cheap)
Monsters Minions & Marauders (very cheap)


Upcoming Stuff That I will get in any case
Villainity Amok
Hidden Lands
UNTIL Superpowers Database II
Teen Champions
Villains Vandals & Vermin
Hero System Equipment Guide
Hero System Combat Handbook
Champions Worldwide
Ultimate Speedster
Ultimate Metamorph
Ultimate Mentalist
(maybe) Enchanted Items

Plus, if SL ever decides to do them:
Ultimate Energy Projector
Ultimate Skill
Bronze Age Champions
Iron Age Champions
Cyber Hero
Golden Age Champions
Silver Age Champions
Ultimate Armor
Ultimate Automaton
Ultimate Base
Ultimate Gadgeteer


Upcoming Stuff That I will buy if I get a good price
Dark Champions: the Animated Series
Everyman
Underworld
Valdorian Age (very cheap)
Nobles Knights & Marauders (very cheap)
Asian Bestiary (very cheap)
Hudson City (very cheap)
Predators (very cheap)

[buzz]

I own every single printed product for 5E. I will buy all forthcoming printed products for5E/5ER, barring personal financial catastrophe. I am a HERO whore. I'm even starting to get into the digital products.

All is as is for more, and all efforts to be made to maintain or increase the quality of the content and the physical product. Go HERO!

[Just A Guy Name]

It's more beneficial for Hero Games to produce books which will be used, and so bought, by more fans than it is for them to produce books that will mostly be purchased by completists and then sit on a shelf unused. So my dollars are not as good as those of someone who actually uses all the books they buy? :( [chagrin]

[Just A Guy Name]

Heh, I think I understand that you are speaking from a marketing perspective. Natch, as a business, they want to produce products that appeal to the widest possible audience. As a completist myself, I am reluctant to interpret your post as meaning that my purchases are somehow harming the company. ;) I rather doubt that they care overmuch what I do with a book, once I have bought it, nor should they. And even if they did, so what? What're they going to do, send the GamersInBlack to my house? :)

Wait, there's someone at the door...

[buzz]

It's much better for the company to understand that the fans really don't want Slingshot Hero then for Hero Games to produce it, waste months in production, and end up only breaking even.
I'm not entirely sure how to respond to your post because I don't think that DOJ does anything that you're saying they do. I can't think of a single HERO book released for 5E that is simply "for completists". I can't point to a single one that would count as an example of a "Slingshot HERO".

I don't think your examples of Star HERO products match history, either. DOJ facing the sad fact of SH sales tapering off, and thus cutting back on their SH releases, doesn't support the idea that they were putting out products simply for the sake of putting out products. They were all stellar (pardon the pun) supplements; it just happened that they did not sell well enough to justify a heavy SH release schedule. So, like any good company, DOJ shifted gears and focused on other products.

There are plenty of companies you could point to that put out products with either no regard for the market or solely becasue they know completists will buy them. DOJ is not one of those companies.