Weighing in on 5ER

[buzz]

I finaly got my copy of FRED Jr., so I can now join the ranting. :)

Overall, I am impressed with the added content, improved art, and enhanced layout. The appendix with size templates also totally rocks. This is a worthy revision, guys!

However... I do feel a (probably perverse) desire to talk about the printing issues.


The book is thick enough that, when opened, the pages need to make a pronounced curve near the spine; the text at these inner edges is close enough that they sort of disappear into the curve, making it a bit harder to read.
The paper is "less than white" enough that it stands out from other books in the HERO line, and other books on my shelf; while it doesn't hamper my readability, it does make an impression.
The consistentcy of the ink bleed varies thoughout my copy; it's never unreadable, but some pages are very dark (say, obscuring the warning icons in the Power descriptions) and some are very light. Areas of solid black also tend to be splotchy.
The binding near the endpapers looks a bit dodgy.
There's a big blotch of ink that obscures pages 588-589 in my copy (I emailed info@ but the email was bounced; would it be possible to get PDFs of these two pages? Or can I exchange my book?).


The book "works" just fine, mind you (save for the blotch), and I am sure it will serve me well in my games. However, I can't help but feel that the impression the printing gives is a somewhat shoddy one. I can't help but think that this is not the impression DOJ wants to present in its flagship product.

I think that, for future editions of the game, DOJ should seriously consider either finding a way to make the book shorter (be it via merciless editing, streamlining, or just taking the font size down a point) so as to alleviate the compromises in the printing process, or else give very, very serious thought to splitting the core rules into two books. Say "HERO: Character Creation" and "HERO: Combat & Adventuring". Personally, I would happily pay $60-$80 for two high-quality core books instead of $50 for one in which there was a seeming need for compromise.

I'm sorry to be yet another person bringing this up. I'm very much a drooling HERO superfan and am not looking to bash it in any way. Nonetheless, I figured I'd offer my input.

[Hugh Neilson]

I finaly got my copy of FRED Jr., so I can now join the ranting. :)

Finally got mine, but have only leafed through it.


Overall, I am impressed with the added content, improved art, and enhanced layout. The appendix with size templates also totally rocks. This is a worthy revision, guys!

Lots of good stuff from my limited scan - agreed.


However... I do feel a (probably perverse) desire to talk about the printing issues.


The book is thick enough that, when opened, the pages need to make a pronounced curve near the spine; the text at these inner edges is close enough that they sort of disappear into the curve, making it a bit harder to read.

The thickness creates a binding fear, even though I've seen nothing wrong to date.


The paper is "less than white" enough that it stands out from other books in the HERO line, and other books on my shelf; while it doesn't hamper my readability, it does make an impression.

Agreed - the paper isn't creating a readability problem for me, but it does look a bit "off".


The consistentcy of the ink bleed varies thoughout my copy; it's never unreadable, but some pages are very dark (say, obscuring the warning icons in the Power descriptions) and some are very light. Areas of solid black also tend to be splotchy.

I didn't consider this earlier, but the warning icons do seem a lot less obvious in 5er.


The binding near the endpapers looks a bit dodgy.
There's a big blotch of ink that obscures pages 588-589 in my copy (I emailed info@ but the email was bounced; would it be possible to get PDFs of these two pages? Or can I exchange my book?).


No similar issues noted in my perusal, but I certainly haven't looked at every page.

I do agree with your comments that the flagship product should have production values to match the quality of the content (or at least get as close as possible in this imperfect world). I'd be OK with a two volume approach as well.

[Steve Long]

There's no reason at all that mail should be bouncing from info@herogames.com -- I get hundreds of mails there every day. You can try again if you like. To shortcut that process, what I'd suggest is that you take the book back to wherever you purchased it and exchange it. It will then make its way back to us through the usual channels.

If for some reason that's not feasible, contact Tina and we'll see what we can do.

[AlHazred]

The consistentcy of the ink bleed varies thoughout my copy; it's never unreadable, but some pages are very dark (say, obscuring the warning icons in the Power descriptions) and some are very light. Areas of solid black also tend to be splotchy.I didn't consider this earlier, but the warning icons do seem a lot less obvious in 5er.
I've sat down and given my copy a thorough page-through, to try to figure out how bad this problem is in mine. Although the print is noticably lighter on individual pages in the first part, it is only when I get to page 303 that I notice a real problem with the lightness of the text. The problem occurs again on 330, 335, 373, 413, 469, 483, 533, and 559. The worst of the print quality issues seem to occur closer to the center of the book.

Really, all the other issues you mention don't bother me much. It's just the print quality that bothers me.

[buzz]

There's no reason at all that mail should be bouncing from info@herogames.com -- I get hundreds of mails there every day.

Okeydoke. Here's the bounce message I received, FYI:



From MAILER-DAEMON@dans.servlets.net Sun Jan 9 01:59:58 2005
Return-Path: <>
Delivered-To: buzz@buzzmo.user
Received: (qmail 21255 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 07:56:21 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO dans.servlets.net) (209.162.192.252)
by station182.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 07:56:21 -0000
Received: from localhost (localhost)
by dans.servlets.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) id j097tvtr001497;
Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:57 -0800
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:57 -0800
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@dans.servlets.net>
Message-Id: <200501090755.j097tvtr001497@dans.servlets.net>
To: <buzz@buzzmo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary="j097tvtr001497.1105257357/dans.servlets.net"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)



This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--j097tvtr001497.1105257357/dans.servlets.net

The original message was received at Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:55 -0800
from station182.com [203.194.198.131]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/bin/vacation -a info heroinfo"
(reason: Service unavailable)
(expanded from: <info@herogames.com>)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
smrsh: "vacation" not available for sendmail programs (stat failed)
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

--j097tvtr001497.1105257357/dans.servlets.net
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; dans.servlets.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; station182.com
Arrival-Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:55 -0800

Final-Recipient: RFC822; info@herogames.com
X-Actual-Recipient: X-Unix; |/usr/bin/vacation -a info heroinfo
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Unix; 69
Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:56 -0800

--j097tvtr001497.1105257357/dans.servlets.net
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <buzz@buzzmo.com>
Received: from station182.com (station182.com [203.194.198.131])
by dans.servlets.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id j097totr001482
for <info@herogames.com>; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:55:55 -0800
Received: (qmail 23012 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 07:56:06 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.1.2?) (67.184.141.35)
by station182.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 07:56:06 -0000
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <DC5E4296-6213-11D9-A861-00050209E58C@buzzmo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
To: info@herogames.com
From: Buzz <buzz@buzzmo.com>
Subject: Printing glitch in my copy of FRED Jr.
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:55:42 -0600
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619)

Hey HERO team,

I just got my copy of the revised HERO core book and p588-p589 are
marred with a big blotch of black ink. Should I go to my retailer to
replace this, or DOJ? Or would it possible to just send me PDFs of
those two pages? Since it's just the index, it's not a total
deal-killer; I figured I'd ask.

Thanks!
Buzz


--j097tvtr001497.1105257357/dans.servlets.net--



To shortcut that process, what I'd suggest is that you take the book back to wherever you purchased it and exchange it.
I've contacted my "retailer", i.e., my buddy's mail-order business. I'll let you know if there's a problem; I doubt it.

Thanks!

[buzz]

I'd be OK with a two volume approach as well.
I don't remember what I said when the subject was originally brought up on the forum, but I firmly believe now that, should the size of the HERO book not decrease, a two-volume approach is the way to go.

[etherio]

The binding near the endpapers looks a bit dodgy.


I just got a copy of 5ER for Xmas, and I'm glad to have it, but I'm also a little worried about the binding. It's awesome that so much new material and clarification made it into the new book, but I can see the binding straining at the endpages in my copy. The binding falling apart wouldn't be anything especially new for an rpg product, and if it does we'll probably just take it to Kinko's for rebinding, but I figgered I might as well chime in. It might be something that can be avoided in future print runs.