A question about Kaiju (Big Big Monstery things) [Archive]

proditor

Jan 19th, '05, 03:40 PM

In The HERO System Bestiary, they include a sample "Godzilla" style Monster. (Page 199). After looking at it, I can see how an "average" and archetypical group of 5-6 350 point PC's would have a good and difficult struggle bringing that sucker in. It would be a logical creature to fight and the PC's would be in for a tough but not unbeatable fight.

But....it would get annihilated by a couple of tanks. The National Guard would be able to kick it's butt up one side of the street and down the other.

So...on to my idea. Do you think it's "fair" to make true Giant Monsters? They are mentioned in CU after all (pg 94). And if I did, would the following seem reasonable?

rPD: Somewhere in the high 20's to high 30's
Resistant Physical Damage Reduction 75% (Stun Only...possibly only vs STUN from killing attacks. )

rED: Somewhere in the low 20's to mid 30's (Thematically, they always seem to be hurt more by Masers than by 120mm HE)
Resistant Energy Damage Reduction 25-50% (Stun Only, and only vs. killing attacks as above)

Breath weapons in the 5-8d6 RKA range, probably Armor Piercing, though NND is also possible.

STR over 80.

Tunneling of some sort to go right through office buildings.

Those are my first blush thoughts. If I'm really trying to convert true Kaiju, does this seem in line with what I want? And yes, there is a definite planned reason for this. ;)

pinecone

Jan 19th, '05, 03:50 PM

Sounds "OK" personally I feel that things like tanks were grossly "powered up" in 5 and 5+....if a tank does 8D6 kill then kryptonians need Huge defences rather than just "good" defenses etc...Giant radioactive monsters suffer the same fate, ultimately it needs to be based on your games levels and limits....maybe they get +X def,only vs "real" weapons (as opposed to the gun carried by a super,unless he took "real" as a lim) I used to like starting a game off with Godzilla attacking LA as a nice social mixer and intro session.....

OddHat

Jan 19th, '05, 03:57 PM

Fair? FAIR?!?

<table border=1><tr><td bgcolor="white">Sugoihentaimono, King of the Monsters 
<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">130  </td><td>STR</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>DEX</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">35  </td><td>CON</td><td>50</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50  </td><td>BODY</td><td>50</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>INT</td><td>-2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>EGO</td><td>-10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">70  </td><td>PRE</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>COM</td><td>-2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">61  </td><td>PD</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">42  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3  </td><td>SPD</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">33  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">70  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">135  </td><td>STUN</td><td>1</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">36"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">26"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 142
 <table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">131  </td><td>HA! YOU NO CUT MY IMPERVIOUS SCALES!: Armor (35 PD/35 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (131 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">150  </td><td>HA! MY ATOMIC BREATH MELT YOU HEAD!: Killing Attack - Ranged 10d6, Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (181" Cone; +1 1/2) (450 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">[3]</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">31  </td><td>Atomic Powered: Life Support (Eating Character does not eat; Longevity Immortal; Safe Environment: Zero Gravity; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping Character does not sleep) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>Me Know Where You Am!: +1 PER with All Sense Groups </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">40  </td><td>Me Know Where You AM NOW!: Spatial Awareness (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, Rapid (x10), Telescopic (+10 versus Range Modifier) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Tail: Extra Limbs , Inherent (+1/4) (6 Active Points); Limited Manipulation (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>Me Smell You Little Stinky Man!: (Total: 16 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) +3 PER with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 6) plus Tracking with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 10) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4  </td><td>Cyberears: +2 PER with Hearing Group </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">20  </td><td>Cybereyes: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 20 Real Cost) +3 PER with Sight Group (Real Cost: 6) plus Infrared Perception (Sight Group) (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) plus Ultraviolet Perception (Sight Group) (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) plus +4 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group (Real Cost: 4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Cyberradar: Radar (Radio Group) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>Enhanced Musculature: +10 STR </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Angry Lizard!: +15 STR </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>Hideousness: (Total: 20 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) +20 PRE (20 Active Points); Only For Fear-Based Presence Attacks Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1) (Real Cost: 10) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">60  </td><td>I'm Huge!: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">60  </td><td>I'm Really Huge!: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">60  </td><td>No Brain, No Effect: Mental Damage Reduction, 75% [Notes: No Brain, No Effect] </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">75  </td><td>Greater Strength: +75 STR </td><td valign="top" align="right">7</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">30  </td><td>Greater Mass: +15 BODY </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">30  </td><td>Heavy: Knockback Resistance -15" </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">25  </td><td>More Impressive: +25 PRE </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">60  </td><td>Long Legs: Running +30" (36" total) </td><td valign="top" align="right">6</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">68  </td><td>Reach: Stretching 16", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (120 Active Points); Always Direct (-1/4), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">145  </td><td>Big Giant Body Parts: Area Of Effect (up to 2" radius; +3/4) for up to 130 Active Points of Strength, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (145 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">32  </td><td>Atomic Powered: Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 130 Active Points of Strength (32 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">25  </td><td>Big Giant Monsters Never Die: Healing 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (70 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">37  </td><td>You No Defeat Me!: Power Defense (30 points), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">38  </td><td>Smart Like Rock: Mental Defense (31 points total), Hardened (+1/4) (38 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">0</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 1195
 <table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Giant Monster Kung Fu </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>1) Used with Natural Weapons Group: Default Element </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Avoid Harm: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>3) Holding Bite: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab One Limb, +10 STR </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>4) Pounce: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 30d6 / 4d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>5) Smash/Claw Slash: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 28d6 / 2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) Trip: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, 27d6 / 1d6 Strike, Target Falls </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 19
 <table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>PS: Giant Monster 15- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 6

 <table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Animal Intelligence Frequently, Greatly Impairing </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: The friend of Children (Uncommon, Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Very Limited Manipulation Frequently, Greatly Impairing </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Gargantuan, up to 32 times human size (64m, or 16.1-32"; -10 DCV, +10 to PER Rolls to perceive) Frequently, Greatly Impairing </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2x STUN Cold Common </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">45  </td><td>Enraged: Berserk Berserk in combat Very Common, go 14-, recover 8- </td></tr></table>Disadvantage Points: 120
<hr>
Cost Summary:
Base Points:75
Disadvantage Points: 120
Experience Required: 1167
Total Experience Available: 1082

Total Character Cost: 1362
<hr>
<table width="100%" valign="top"><tr valign="top"><td>Height: 50.00 m</td><td>Hair: Healthy Green Scales</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td>Weight: 440000.00 kg</td><td>Eyes: The Color Of Evil</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Appearance: Gigantic Cyborg Mutant Lizard with Kung-Fu Skills!</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Personality: Sugoihentaimono is the friend of children. OK, not really. Normal animal motivations, complicated by his huge size and a really bad temper.</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Quote:WRAUGHAUUUUUUUUUU!</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Background: On Gammura Island, a secret government project attempted to create the perfect monster, mixing cybertechnology and induced mutation. The project succeeded. On reflection, this was probably a mistake.</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Powers/Tactics: Crush, kill, destroy.</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2>Campaign Use: Death of nations. </td></tr></table>
</td></tr></table>

proditor

Jan 19th, '05, 04:15 PM

Fair? FAIR?!? :rofl: Those power names are awesome. I'll have a PM en route to you in a sec, got a couple of questions for you.

Susano

Jan 20th, '05, 05:30 AM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OddHat again.

Almost as much fun as Trogidor the Burninator.

Dr. MID-Nite

Jan 20th, '05, 11:16 AM

In The HERO System Bestiary, they include a sample "Godzilla" style Monster. (Page 199). After looking at it, I can see how an "average" and archetypical group of 5-6 350 point PC's would have a good and difficult struggle bringing that sucker in. It would be a logical creature to fight and the PC's would be in for a tough but not unbeatable fight.

But....it would get annihilated by a couple of tanks. The National Guard would be able to kick it's butt up one side of the street and down the other.

So...on to my idea. Do you think it's "fair" to make true Giant Monsters? They are mentioned in CU after all (pg 94). And if I did, would the following seem reasonable?

rPD: Somewhere in the high 20's to high 30's
Resistant Physical Damage Reduction 75% (Stun Only...possibly only vs STUN from killing attacks. )

rED: Somewhere in the low 20's to mid 30's (Thematically, they always seem to be hurt more by Masers than by 120mm HE)
Resistant Energy Damage Reduction 25-50% (Stun Only, and only vs. killing attacks as above)

Breath weapons in the 5-8d6 RKA range, probably Armor Piercing, though NND is also possible.

STR over 80.

Tunneling of some sort to go right through office buildings.

Those are my first blush thoughts. If I'm really trying to convert true Kaiju, does this seem in line with what I want? And yes, there is a definite planned reason for this. ;)

Well....as the current Godzilla seems more like an elemental force than a true living being, it is of course awe inspiringly powerful. He's almost in the realm of plot device these days in his power. I mean he's obviously got STR in excess of 100 area of effect, is darn near invulnerable(and can regen to boot), and his radioactive ray can shatter mountains. He's not versatile, but in terms of what he CAN do....he's pretty hard to stop. A staple of the genre is even mental powers can't control such primal forces for very long....so even psi abilities are a bust here. For your campaign, I'd honestly wing it. if an attack seems like it would hurt the big G....then let it. Otherwise, he shrugs it off without even noticing. In the old Marvel comic book version, not much seemed to hurt him beyond Thor's hammer and Yellowjacket and The wasp flying inside his inner ear and firing full power stings. Overall, if you want to maintain the true "feel" of kaiju....then it has to be made clear that even the best the heroes can do will only stop the beast on a temporary basis. Japanese films tend to favor man being weak compared to the monsters. We unleashed forces beyond our control and now we're paying for it.

Rob

Skaramine

Jan 20th, '05, 04:02 PM

The best way to handle such a menace is to add Missile Deflection - Only against tanks, missiles, grenades, and military aircraft (-1), can Missile Deflect Explosions (+1). If you want to make him heroic, make it Adjacent so he can shield small nations from enemy shelling. Then leave the other powers so that he'll give the PC's a hard time, unless they're for some reason using the weaponry of ordinary men.

OddHat

Jan 20th, '05, 04:27 PM

The best way to handle such a menace is to add Missile Deflection - Only against tanks, missiles, grenades, and military aircraft (-1), can Missile Deflect Explosions (+1). If you want to make him heroic, make it Adjacent so he can shield small nations from enemy shelling. Then leave the other powers so that he'll give the PC's a hard time, unless they're for some reason using the weaponry of ordinary men.

I can see this, and it works. Still, many of giant monsters are explicitly almost immune to anything short of the most powerful weaponry on Earth. I'd rather leave the greatest of them with that power level, and use them in less-than-cosmic campaigns as a menace that the heroes have to think their way out of. In a cosmic game, they can have a real Ultra-Man style punch up. :)

Skaramine

Jan 20th, '05, 04:42 PM

Monstersaurus - he needs the missile deflect.

Let me see where I put Godzilla...

I knew I had him. :) This it 4th ed, done with Heromaker, not herodesigner, so no cool names for powers.

The Godzilla Stats, as translated from the Kaiju Encyclopedias...
Name: Godzilla
Val Char Cost
65/150 STR 55
18 DEX 24
80 CON 140
30/44 BODY 40
8 INT -2
18 EGO 16
50 PRE 40
2 COM -4
17/20 PD 4
17/20 ED 1
3 SPD 2
30 REC 2
160 END 0
106/120 STUN 3
Characteristic Rolls: STR: 22/39-, DEX: 13-, CON: 25-, INT: 11-, EGO: 13-, PER: 11-
Run: 6/36", Swim: 2/20", Jump: 30", Lift: 200 ton/25600 kton
Cost Powers END/Roll
30 Massive Size (30-pt reserve)
a-120 Armor (50 PD/50 ED)
b-30 Physical Invulnerability (Physical, 75% Resistant)
c-30 Energy Invulnerability (Energy, 75% Resistant)
d-73 Growth-14 (×16000 mass, ×25.3 height); Mass: 0 kg/0.00 lbs; Height: 0 cm/0"; Extra STR: 70; Knockback Reduction: -14; Extra BODY: 14; Extra STUN: 14; DCV Penalty: -9; PER Penalty: +9; Always On: -½; Reduced END: Zero & Persistent, +1 0
e-73 Stretching (15", NC: 15"); Non-Combat Multiplier: ×1, +-5; Reduced END: Zero & Persistent, +1; Conditional Power: Frequently, -½ 0
f-30 Running (+30", 36", NC: 72"); Non-Combat Multiplier: ×2, +0 12
20 Density Increase-3 (×8 mass); Mass: 0 kg/0.00 lbs; Extra PD: +3; Extra ED: +3; Extra STR: +15; Knockback: -3"; Always On: -½; Reduced END: Zero & Persistent, +1 0
5 Extra Limbs (1); Number: 1
169 5d6 HKA (Total 9d6+1); Range: 0; Area Effect (One-hex): 8 hex(es), +½; Increased Area: ×8, +¾ 17
30 Life Support (total)
10 Regeneration (1 BODY/Turn); Regenerate: Standard, +0
200 6½d6 RKA; Range: 1000; Area Effect (Cone): 20" long, +1 20
18 Swimming (+18", 20", NC: 40"); Non-Combat Multiplier: ×2, +0 4
Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
15 +3 level w/HTH Combat
20 +4 level w/Ranged Combat
3 Survival 11-
3 Tracking 11-
150+ Disadvantages
25 Distinctive Features; Concealability: Not Concealable, 15; Reaction: Extreme, +10
20 Reputation (14-, Extreme)
20 Hunted: Ghidorah (11-); Capabilities: More Powerful, 15; Non-combat Influence: None, +0; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
20 Hunted: World Militaries (14-); Capabilities: Less Powerful, 5; Non-combat Influence: Extensive, +5; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
5 Rivalry: Other Monsters; Situation: Professional, 5; Position: Equal, +0; Rival: NPC, +0
10 Drains and Transfers (2× Effect); Attack: Uncommon, +5
10 DNPC: Baby Godzilla (Slightly Less Powerful, 11-); Skills: Normal, +0
10 DNPC: Minya (Slightly Less Powerful, 11-); Skills: Normal, +0
10 Distinctive Features:Radioactive; Concealability: Easily, 5; Reaction: Always noticed & major reaction, +5
10 Hunted: Kilaaaks (8-); Capabilities: As Powerful, 10; Non-combat Influence: None, +0; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
15 Hunted: Gigan (11-); Capabilities: As Powerful, 10; Non-combat Influence: None, +0; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Actions: Hunting, ×1; Punishment: Harsh, 0
15 Rivalry: Mothra; Situation: Professional, 5; Position: Superior, +5; Rival: PC, +5
15 Overconfidence (Very Common, Moderate)
10 Vengeful (Uncommon, Strong)
15 Hatred of Aliens (Common, Strong)
780 Godzilla Bonus
20 Territorial, Protective of HIS territory (Common, Total)
20 Berserk: In Combat (11-, 11-, Berserk); Circumstances: Common, +10
5 Phys. Lim.: Mute (Infrequently, Slightly)
15 Phys. Lim.:Must make Dex roll to use paws for fine work (Frequently, Greatly)
OCV: 6; DCV: 6 / 0; ECV: 6; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 4, 8, 12
PD/rPD: 70/50; ED/rED: 70/50
COSTS: Char.: 321 Disad.: 1050
Powers: + 879 Base: + 150
Total: = 1200 Total: = 1200
Anyone wanna call out Godzilla on being a Wimp?

Skaramine

Jan 20th, '05, 04:44 PM

I think the 15" stretching is his tail, and the conditional power is "Tail only."