Attacking from Behind

[Menexenus]

This isn't really a rules question. It's more of a request for help.

My character has bought Defense Maneuver I which says that the character is no longer vulnerable to penalties from attacks from behind when the Defense Maneuver is activated. According to a table in the Combat section, we noticed that the penalty for being attacked from behind is that the target is at 1/2 DCV. (However, I couldn't find anything more about how to adjudicate when an attack is coming "from behind.")

So I tried to get behind the villain we were fighting so that I could impose the Attacking from Behind penalty on my foe. But when I got there and announced that my target was now at 1/2 DCV, the GM said that he didn't want to have to bother with "facing" in his game. And since he couldn't think of any simple way to deal with "attacking from behind" without facing, he basically threw that rule out. When I pointed out that this made Defense Maneuver I effectively useless, he said that it was still useful because you need it to buy Defense Maneuver II.

So I guess what I'm asking for is how you guys handle attacking from behind in your games. I want my Defense Maneuver I to be useful, so I'd like to find some way of incorporating attacks from behind into our game. Does anyone have a suggestion about how we could handle it without facing in a way that wouldn't be too complicated?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

[fbdaury]

If the GM is not going to be using those rules, just petition to get back the points spent on Defense Maneuver, did you get lvl II? If not, ask for those 3 points back to spend on something else, like a combat skill level :rolleyes:

[Champsguy]

It doesn't come up unless someone is obviously facing a certain direction.

Ex:
Bob is crouched over the computer, studying the monitor. Tom sneaks up behind him and attacks. 1/2 DCV.
Bob is haymakering his EB to hit Steve, who is standing 10 hexes away. After Bob has declared his haymaker, but before it lands, Tom walks up behind Bob, so that Bob is directly between Tom and Steve. 1/2 DCV (in addition to the haymaker penalty).
Bob is surrounded by half a dozen guys. Someone will be behind him. Bob's choice who. 1/2 DCV.
Bob's psych lim "stares at beautiful women" goes off. Bob watches Jane walk past wearing a low-cut top. Tom sneaks up behind Bob and attacks him (Jane is Tom's girlfriend). 1/2 DCV.

[Blue]

Again, how I do it: You get the attack from behind bonus if...
1)There's reason for the target to be surprised (such as maybe you teleported behind him or acrobatic flipped to that spot)
2)The character is flanked by opponents, in which case only the one behind him is getting the benefit.

I had to clarify for my players this way because otherwise they were going to constantly be running around to behind their foe to get that momentary bonus, which meant the villains would do it, and it would get really annoying in a hurry.

[Trebuchet]

This isn't really a rules question. It's more of a request for help.

My character has bought Defense Maneuver I which says that the character is no longer vulnerable to penalties from attacks from behind when the Defense Maneuver is activated. According to a table in the Combat section, we noticed that the penalty for being attacked from behind is that the target is at 1/2 DCV. (However, I couldn't find anything more about how to adjudicate when an attack is coming "from behind.")

So I tried to get behind the villain we were fighting so that I could impose the Attacking from Behind penalty on my foe. But when I got there and announced that my target was now at 1/2 DCV, the GM said that he didn't want to have to bother with "facing" in his game. And since he couldn't think of any simple way to deal with "attacking from behind" without facing, he basically threw that rule out. When I pointed out that this made Defense Maneuver I effectively useless, he said that it was still useful because you need it to buy Defense Maneuver II.

So I guess what I'm asking for is how you guys handle attacking from behind in your games. I want my Defense Maneuver I to be useful, so I'd like to find some way of incorporating attacks from behind into our game. Does anyone have a suggestion about how we could handle it without facing in a way that wouldn't be too complicated?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!I can't see how this requires any sort of "facing" decisions on the part of your GM. Isn't it generally pretty obvious which way each character is facing in combat? You generally are facing the opponent you're fighting; whether someone is behind you should be pretty self-evident.

This is another reason I'm coming to prefer fighting on maps more and more. It really takes away these type of little niggling problems. "Can I see him?" or "What size is the room?" becomes self evident. Lately I've been using 1/8" = 1" hex grids and erasable markers to manage our combats and it's really made combat run much more smoothly.

[Talon]

I have a house rule for Attacking From Behind in heroic games which basically boils down to "your opponent has to choose to turn his back on you in order for you to get the bonus." Thus, if you start the Phase in front of someone, you can't get the modifier regardless of your movement. If you start the Phase behind them, you can get it.

In superheroic games I pretty much play as above, where you don't get it unless you surprise or surround someone.

[MikeyMitchell]

This isn't really a rules question. It's more of a request for help.

My character has bought Defense Maneuver I which says that the character is no longer vulnerable to penalties from attacks from behind when the Defense Maneuver is activated. According to a table in the Combat section, we noticed that the penalty for being attacked from behind is that the target is at 1/2 DCV. (However, I couldn't find anything more about how to adjudicate when an attack is coming "from behind.")

So I tried to get behind the villain we were fighting so that I could impose the Attacking from Behind penalty on my foe. But when I got there and announced that my target was now at 1/2 DCV, the GM said that he didn't want to have to bother with "facing" in his game. And since he couldn't think of any simple way to deal with "attacking from behind" without facing, he basically threw that rule out. When I pointed out that this made Defense Maneuver I effectively useless, he said that it was still useful because you need it to buy Defense Maneuver II.

So I guess what I'm asking for is how you guys handle attacking from behind in your games. I want my Defense Maneuver I to be useful, so I'd like to find some way of incorporating attacks from behind into our game. Does anyone have a suggestion about how we could handle it without facing in a way that wouldn't be too complicated?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

By default, all characters have a facing. Since normal senses view in a 120-degree arc around that facing (i.e. one hex side left and one hex side right), any attack originating from outside that area is "from behind", because you can't see it coming. (Your GM may choose to use a 180-degree arc instead, to reflect peripheral vision.) The same rules apply to being Flashed or otherwise unable to perceive the source of an attack.

If the GM doesn't want to "bother" with facing, he's got a whole kettle of fish besides Defense Maneuver to deal with. Turn modes for movement, attacking "from behind" in general, PER rolls in combat (he's basically giving everyone 360-degree vision by saying "no facing"), being Flashed works regardless of which way the target is looking, and so forth. To my mind, he's got a whole lot more trouble on his hands avoiding facing than he would if he just used it.<BR><BR>

[Dust Raven]

When figuring out whether or not someone's "behind" someone else, I use the Arc of Perception rules...kinda.

Basically, if the attack starts his Phase within the field of perception of one of the target's targeting senses, you aren't attacking from behind. If you start your Phase outside that, you might get the bonus. If you are in the target's peripheral (which I define as being outside the arc of perception, but inside the next higher up level for arc is perception; i.e. out to 240 for a 120 field, or a full 360 for a 240 field), the target gets a PER roll with a targeting sense to notice you. If the roll fails, you are attacking from behind. And obviously, if you are outside the target's peripheral perception (in that 120 degree field behind a target with only 120 arc of perception), you automatically are attacking from behind.

As far as what penalties/bonuses are applied, I don't differentiate between "from behind", "invisible" or otherwise not perceived. It's all the same penalty (though it differs somewhat between HTH and Ranged combat).

[Hyper-Man]

Another thing to remember is that being attacked from behind is just a specific example of being suprised. Out of combat suprises don't necessarily need to be from behind.

I'm guessing that your GM does not use visual aids for combat and instead has a mental picture of combat that he describes to the players verbaly? I have played in such games and it can be cool as long as other aspects of the game make up for it. I agree that he should give you a refund on the points spent and probably discount the rest of Defense Manuever if he refuses to track facings in any way at all.

HM