Effective Concepts Your GM WON'T Allow.

[Dust Raven]

I was talking with a friend recently about his new character, and we came up with a few character concepts that I would definately forbid. Mostly because they were campaign breakers or went against the genre. Here's a few of them:

The Philanthropist: The Power of Money. He's bought 15 points of Money and lots of contacts. Basically, when a villain robbs the museum, he shows up and shouts "STOP Villain! You havn't paid for that! Allow me..." Then it finds the curator, offers whatever amount of money he wants and pays for the items being stolen, then "there you go... here's your receipt. Have a nice day!" We figure after about a session or two he'd find a team of VIPER agents knocking on his door. "Hi, we're from the Nest downtown. We're planning on robbing the City Bank around 2pm, thought we might get away with about three and a half mil..." and hold out there hands expectantly.

The Voice: This guy has bought PRE up to the campaign Limit of Active Points, and might even have Cost END on it to make it an actual Power. All he does is show up and tell everybody he encounters to surrender. For added effect, he has a FF that glows like holy fire and some Images for added ominous effects during his PRE Attacks.

So are there any similar concepts any of you have seen or come up with?

[Hermit]

Mister Nicely- Everyone owes Mr. Nicely, you see, he spent almost all his points on contacts and favors....especially with super villains. Should Dr. Destroyer be ready to release the deadly toxin upon Campaign City, Mr. Nicely will politely remind the Doctor of the time he found that replacement for his lost teddy bear on E-bay for him, and could they call it even by sparing the city? Of course they can, everyone loves Nicely... or at least owes the smiling moron too much to say no.

;)

[levi]

...The Voice: This guy has bought PRE up to the campaign Limit of Active Points, and might even have Cost END on it to make it an actual Power. All he does is show up and tell everybody he encounters to surrender. For added effect, he has a FF that glows like holy fire and some Images for added ominous effects during his PRE Attacks...

Along the same lines come every adolescent boy's fantasy...
Flasher: Much like The Voice above, she has the highest PRE possible as well as the highest COM and of course a lack of clothing beneath her trenchcoat. Even the women have to stop and say "Damn she's hot!"

[nightbringer256]

Sexual induendo Man
his powers: turning everything into a sexual induendo. embarasses people to the point of hemeraging in there brain. poof they die of a popped vessel and one less
villian.
*sigh* too bad my GM said it was too power an idea.
i have to go get mind scrubed now.

they will find you

[John Desmarais]

The Voice: This guy has bought PRE up to the campaign Limit of Active Points, and might even have Cost END on it to make it an actual Power. All he does is show up and tell everybody he encounters to surrender. For added effect, he has a FF that glows like holy fire and some Images for added ominous effects during his PRE Attacks.


I actually played with someone who ran a character similar to this. Called Tiger (we called him Paper Tiger) his only real power was a mosterous amount of PRE bought through a focus (a big honkin' gun). He'd show up, point the gun at someone, demand that he surrender, and PRE attack the poor twit.

Later, he spent some experience to make the gun a Multipower with the second slot being a humungous RKA usuable once. Then he'd show up, point the gun at something, blow it to kingdom come, then point the gun at someone, demand that he surrender, and then PRE attack the poor twit (thereby getting the bonus for just having performed an incredibly violent action).

As a rarely used character it was cute and amusing. If it had been used frequently it would have been a nuisance.

[Lightray]

Along the same lines come every adolescent boy's fantasy...
Flasher: Much like The Voice above, she has the highest PRE possible as well as the highest COM and of course a lack of clothing beneath her trenchcoat. Even the women have to stop and say "Damn she's hot!"
You could also add something like this (which I used for a Zatanna/Black Canary type character):

Legs Up To There: Change Environment 2" radius, -2 : OCV, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (34 Active Points); Only Affects Those Who Would Notice These Things (-1), No Range (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Always On (-1/4). Real Cost: 10 points.

Boost it up high enough, and watch everybody's CV drop to 0!

[Blue]

You could also add something like this (which I used for a Zatanna/Black Canary type character):

Legs Up To There: Change Environment 2" radius, -2 : OCV, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (34 Active Points); Only Affects Those Who Would Notice These Things (-1), No Range (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Always On (-1/4). Real Cost: 10 points.

Boost it up high enough, and watch everybody's CV drop to 0!
Also raises the temperature a bit. Or is it just me ;)

[Trebuchet]

Along the same lines come every adolescent boy's fantasy...!I deeply resent that implication. I haven't been an adolescent boy for decades. :winkgrin:

[teh bunneh]

The Voice: This guy has bought PRE up to the campaign Limit of Active Points, and might even have Cost END on it to make it an actual Power. All he does is show up and tell everybody he encounters to surrender. For added effect, he has a FF that glows like holy fire and some Images for added ominous effects during his PRE Attacks.

I have a pre-gen like that for when I run convention games (she's also in Digital Hero #26, on sale now!). Phantom is a ghost with an effective PRE of 60 (if she spends the END), only to cause and resist fear. She has abilities apart from that of course, but that's one of her more effective offensive powers... :D

Bill.

[Corven_Ren]

While I have never had this happen I will relate a character I played. I created him on a bet from a buddy of mine who said make a character called The Belcher.

He was a sonic based mutant who's main sonic eb was a huge burp. Part of his story is he was an alcoholic who because of his metabolism could not get drunk. He had a dependace on alcohol and watched by M.A.D.D. as disadvantages. He also carried a micro keg on his back. Led to alot of comedic moments, and was alot of fun.

[Angry Gumby]

It's not so much an effectiveness issue as a fun issue. The only characters I would ever disallow are ones that would ruin the fun for all the other players, and the Voice would probably be one of them. What fun is it for the other players to never really get to use their powers against the bad guys, because Voice makes everyone surrender?

[Crimson Arrow]

You could also add something like this (which I used for a Zatanna/Black Canary type character):

Legs Up To There: Change Environment 2" radius, -2 : OCV, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (34 Active Points); Only Affects Those Who Would Notice These Things (-1), No Range (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Always On (-1/4). Real Cost: 10 points.

Boost it up high enough, and watch everybody's CV drop to 0!

I have a similar construct in mind for a character, except it's built as DCV levels.

For 10 Active Points, you get the +2 DCV (functionally the same as applying -2 OCV to everyone). It applies to people outside the area, doesn't cost any END and you can still apply the Limitation to it that it only affects people who'd care to drop the Real Cost to 5 points.

Your one would work even if the person were unconscious, I suppose, but then how tough is it to hit someone who's out cold, even with a -2 OCV? Another advantage is that it wouldn't strictly count towards the maximum DCV in the campaign, but that would be a bit of a munchkin point.

I don't think The Voice is such a terrible character, because people would start using automata, or take him out up front, before he makes his PRE PRE Attack. I wouldn't allow him because he's a one-trick pony and not in an interesting way. He'd make an interesting villain, perhaps. There was, of course, a villain called just this in the 60s, except his was more Mind Control than a PRE Attack.

[Lightray]

Your one would work even if the person were unconscious, I suppose, but then how tough is it to hit someone who's out cold, even with a -2 OCV? Another advantage is that it wouldn't strictly count towards the maximum DCV in the campaign, but that would be a bit of a munchkin point.
I built it that way because Black Swan isn't the one affected by her Legs Up To There -- the people around her are. She's not any more difficult to hit, and the people around her have a more difficult time hitting anything.

Her Legs Up To There also would affect her teammates -- assuming they would Notice These Things. Not too munchkinish if all the guys on her team are bobbling their attacks, too.

Getting around any DCV limits in a campaign isn't too difficult, and Black Swan actually has a few ways of boosting her CV. It's the combination of CV and DEF and attack values that'd be worrisome, and she's really not that twinked out. You can see here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=564126&postcount=560) from OddHat's New Circle thread (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23376).

Bringing this back to the topic at hand: I wouldn't ban this (or Flasher) as a character concept because of the potential abuse of the character's powers. I think you can build a set of powers to be balanced in play, with a little care.

I would ban a Flasher because the concept is too juvenile for any campaign I would run. But it would be a fun character in a goofy enough game.

[Crimson Arrow]

I built it that way because Black Swan isn't the one affected by her Legs Up To There -- the people around her are. She's not any more difficult to hit, and the people around her have a more difficult time hitting anything.

Yes, quite so. My character was a little different, in intention (people would be subconsciously reluctant to hit her), but your way is good. Bet her teammates try to keep their distance, though (unless they are robots, aliens, etc).



I would ban a Flasher because the concept is too juvenile for any campaign I would run. But it would be a fun character in a goofy enough game.

I agree. She could be good in a 'Mystery Men' campaign, for example.

[Dust Raven]

Wow... Maybe PRE is too cheep.

Hey! I have PRE ammo now next time Gary goes off on a STR tirade! :)

:D:D:D

P.S.: Sorry Gary ;)

[Hermit]

Side track
(Forgive)
Exactly where do you guys cap PRE in your campaigns?

[WhammeWhamme]

Side track
(Forgive)
Exactly where do you guys cap PRE in your campaigns?

Well, in the campaigns I've had sole leadership on, no one has tried to exploit PRE... but I'd have gone with "up to campaign DC", I guess.

A lot cap it at 25 or 30, just by capping most characteristics there. More than 40 is starting to get really risky.

[BNakagawa]

Martial arts with ranged attacks.

No love for the blasters -_-

[Blue]

Side track
(Forgive)
Exactly where do you guys cap PRE in your campaigns?
I haven't. But it hasn't been an issue.

[CrosshairCollie]

As a random sidenote, I really want to make a character with the 'Impressive As All Get Out' power (Presence, Does Knockback) someday ... but I can't think of a way to do it and get away with it.

[pinecone]

I've never seen a character with a pres higher than 40, the highest Pre I've ever had as a player was 50....I mostly used it for "agent busting" "Flee now! before I burn you like toast!" (good old Plasma man....)

[lemming]

Side track
(Forgive)
Exactly where do you guys cap PRE in your campaigns?
We capped at 40 in a past campaign to avoid some sillyness of having a hero just go BOO!. Made people actually think thru their PRE attacks to get some modifiers.

[WhammeWhamme]

As a random sidenote, I really want to make a character with the 'Impressive As All Get Out' power (Presence, Does Knockback) someday ... but I can't think of a way to do it and get away with it.

Buy it as a naked advantage that "just happens" to apply to the increased PRE?

Play in a game where someone like me sets the ground rules? (I find that power funny, yet not horribly broken... it's the classic roar that blows you over...)

[Lightray]

As a random sidenote, I really want to make a character with the 'Impressive As All Get Out' power (Presence, Does Knockback) someday ... but I can't think of a way to do it and get away with it.
There's all kinds of fun advantages to put on PRE: Invisible Power Effects (don't have to say anything, just intimidate by being there), Transdimensional (scare those ghosts away), Sticky (panic that spreads by contact), Line Of Sight (hey! you on the horizon! boo!), Area of Effect + Megascale (intimidate everyone in the city at once), Indirect (people in the next room who don't even know you're there are inexplicably worried), even Variable Special Effects might be fun.

Probably the easiest choice for a PRE character is to buy a Naked Variable Advantage on PRE. Sort of a "Yes, I'm That Badass" power.

[Brandi]

I liked PRE that does Knockback, myself... very much a Stupefyin' Jones effect.

[OddHat]

Master Thespian (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=105918&postcount=342) got some play in one of my games, and while he was very effective against normal thugs and weak-willed villains he was almost helpless against Master Villain types. He worked out well.

[Jeghis]

Jacques Rambeau: once, long ago, we sat around abusing the hero rules to make stupid characters as we waited for the rest of our group to show up for the session of Danger International i was going to run. one of the 'characters' was Jacques Rambeau. he was a very, very, very good assassin. he could pick off a robin's head at 1/2 a mile using a blunderbuss. we all thought he was too silly to play, until Knob looked at it and exclaimed, "Hey! This is a good character. I'll play it just like it is."

the reason that no one else wanted to play this charcater was not that he had an atrocious french accent. we never heard his accent. he had a common, total psych limitation: Must Mime.

after a few days in one place, somebody would notice the mime with the gun case and shout out, "AAAAAH! It's the Killer Mime!" but he did a great job offing bad guys and Knob did a great job playing him.

that convinced me that there are no bad characters, just better or worse roleplayers.

Tarzan of the Concrete Jungle: this should have died, i know it, but my very first hero character (Champions, plain and simple) was Tarzan. problem was that we were in a city and there weren't no lions, tigers or bears. not even with kneepads or helmets. his big attack 'power' was a summon animals [with a mighty yell, of course].

once we were cornered beneath the city and Tarzan summoned... rats. lots of rats. too many rats. they attacked. they rolled a 3. they ate the thugs. it was gross. i really wish we had read the rules thoroughly.

[levi]

Achilles, Aegis...Punching Bag This character has max DEF for the Campaign as well as max REC and BODY & STUN. He also has every DEF and Full Life Support. Of course he has NO Attack Power whatsoever, not even enough movement for a decent move through. This guy spends most of any fight insulting people, drawing fire, even Diving for Cover (into the line of fire) if necessary to soak up all the damage thrown around. For the sake of completeness let me also mention Force Wall Joe who uses max DEF FWs to accomplish much the same thing, but at range.

[Aryanun]

Flatulence Man: AoE NND. He can clear a room in seconds. :nonp:


The following have made appearances in my games as a lighthearted adventure after some serious drama adventures.

Captain Hairdryer: Out to save the world from Bad Hair Days.
Bruce the Towel Boy and Trixie the Gel Girl: Captain Hairdryer's sidekicks.

The Lonely Hearts Club: The Walrus, Sgt. Pepper, Mean Mr. Mustard, Polyurethane Pam, and Silver Hammer - real name Maxwell (yes, I can have a sense of humor when so desired ... the players hated this group, especially after they got defeated by them the first time they went against them).

[Crimson Arrow]

Flatulence Man: AoE NND. He can clear a room in seconds. :nonp:

I hope he's got Personal Immunity (or No Sense Of Smell).


The Lonely Hearts Club: The Walrus, Sgt. Pepper, Mean Mr. Mustard, Polyurethane Pam, and Silver Hammer - real name Maxwell (yes, I can have a sense of humor when so desired ... the players hated this group, especially after they got defeated by them the first time they went against them).

What, no Eggman?

Did they get by with a little help from their friends?

Sounds like a fun group, a little reminiscent of the Crazy Gang from Excalibur.

[Dust Raven]

What, no Eggman?

Did they get by with a little help from their friends?

Sounds like a fun group, a little reminiscent of the Crazy Gang from Excalibur.
Naw... all they need is love.

[Captain Obvious]

Achilles, Aegis...Punching Bag This character has max DEF for the Campaign as well as max REC and BODY & STUN. He also has every DEF and Full Life Support. Of course he has NO Attack Power whatsoever, not even enough movement for a decent move through. This guy spends most of any fight insulting people, drawing fire, even Diving for Cover (into the line of fire) if necessary to soak up all the damage thrown around. For the sake of completeness let me also mention Force Wall Joe who uses max DEF FWs to accomplish much the same thing, but at range.

Well, of course, a living wall is not much fun, but I had planned to make a character who was unkillable, but still felt pain. There's quite a bit of roleplaying potential in a character who is undeniably super, but feels inadequate because his main power is the ability to get his clock cleaned again and again.

[zornwil]

Well, of course, a living wall is not much fun, but I had planned to make a character who was unkillable, but still felt pain. There's quite a bit of roleplaying potential in a character who is undeniably super, but feels inadequate because his main power is the ability to get his clock cleaned again and again.One of our PCs is a guy who started out able to turn into heavy stone that hurt if you used him to hit people with. He could not move but was basically invulnerable almost. It was great! Oh, and in his normal human form he could transform others to stone.

[Bengal]

One of our PCs is a guy who started out able to turn into heavy stone that hurt if you used him to hit people with. He could not move but was basically invulnerable almost. It was great!


Stone Boy from the LOSH had this as his main power. I don't see how this would be fun, but it sure would be funny.

[Bengal]

I learned this the hard way:

I had a player who couldn't see color, but could see shapes very well. He also had the ability to see the moral character of souls- good versus evil.

He had a sword which would harm evildoers, but heal the good.

He also had a high level of absorption with linked armor, only against attacks from an evil source.


If he fought against "bad guys", he was unbeatable, but if he fought automata or animals, he was useless. Fun for nobody!

[WhammeWhamme]

Stone Boy from the LOSH had this as his main power. I don't see how this would be fun, but it sure would be funny.

Depends on the level of power and/or control. If you can do things like a 'leap-through' and turn into stone midway, or turn into a statue with your foot on the accelerator while driving...

Let's just say that enough invulnerability IS a weapon. :yes:

[BNakagawa]

One of our PCs is a guy who started out able to turn into heavy stone that hurt if you used him to hit people with. He could not move but was basically invulnerable almost. It was great! Oh, and in his normal human form he could transform others to stone.

One of the first Champions characters ever (first edition playtest group) was a powered armor suit named Force.

Force's armor locked into an 'at attention' pose whenever it detected that the wearer went unconscious. This led to Force being used as a club by the team's growing brick whenever Force was KOed...

[Metaphysician]

Depends on the level of power and/or control. If you can do things like a 'leap-through' and turn into stone midway, or turn into a statue with your foot on the accelerator while driving...

Let's just say that enough invulnerability IS a weapon. :yes:

There's also teamwork: an invulnerable teammate makes for a great fastball special. . .

[Kirby]

I had a player once that wanted a judo expert with "desolidification, useable against others" so that he could throw them into the ground (literally) and turn the power off the next phase. :tsk:

He also wanted an invisible martial artist ("you can't block what you can't see"), but luckily he went with something else.

[Dust Raven]

Well, of course, a living wall is not much fun, but I had planned to make a character who was unkillable, but still felt pain. There's quite a bit of roleplaying potential in a character who is undeniably super, but feels inadequate because his main power is the ability to get his clock cleaned again and again.
I made a character like this once. He wasn't truly invulnerable, but had gobs and gobs of Regeneration (with Ressurection). A little bit of Martial Arts make him playable, but for the most part he was a damage sponge who tried to take hits meant for his allies.

[Hawksmoor]

We called the Invulnerable character the Crash Test Dummy after those lovable characters in the public service announcements. They take a licking and keep on ticking.

Hawksmoor