Fun with luck points - Refine my powers

[Funksaw]

Power Examples:

"Dramatic Serendipity/Plot Twist"

A staple of many genres of fiction is the Deus Ex Machina - the fortunate turn of events which extracts a character from harm. Unlike other powers, Dramatic Serendipity is not something that a character in the game is aware, but which the player uses to twist insignificant events in his character's favor - provided the player can provide a reasonable rationale as to why the event took place.

For example, a handcuffed character could have a pair of handcuff keys on him, with the rationale that "my character, reasonably expected to be in danger, would have thought to take them with them for just such a situation" or a character trapped in a burning building might say that a neighbor saw the flames and called the police.

Alternately, this could be used to pick up a clue or a "hint" that would have otherwise gone unnoticed.

[30] Extra-Dimensional Movement to a universe where something lucky happened... (Okay, it's a stretch.) (Requires Luck Point Expenditure -1)
Actual cost, 15

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"I Think I'm Okay"
[60] 50% Damage Resistance, Physical & Energy, Resistant, (Requires Luck Point Expenditure -1)
Actual Cost: 30

Options:
"Action Movie Protagonist Fortitude"
[30] 3d6 Healing (Requires Luck Point Expenditure -1) (Gradual Effect, 5 minutes or 1 new scene -3/4) END 3
Actual Cost: 11

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"Righteous Fury"
[105] 6d6 Aid. (More Time 20 min/5AP +3/4) (No Conscious Control/Major tragedy -2) (Self Only-1/2) (Require Two Luck Point Expenditures-1 1/2)
Actual Cost: 21

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"Death Defiance"
[100] 3d6 Resurrection Healing (Prevention: Make SURE he's dead...) (0 END +1/2) (Persistant +1/2) (Resurrection Only -1/2) (Requires Three luck Point Expenditures -2,) (Extra Time 1 month/story -5)
Actual Cost: 12

[Phil]

[30] Extra-Dimensional Movement to a universe where something lucky happened... (Okay, it's a stretch.) (Requires Luck Point Expenditure -1)
Actual cost, 15

Yes, it is a stretch. Yes, it makes EDM the ultimate do-anything power. No, I'd never allow it in my game. BUT....

"Other such uses [of EDM] include stopping time (the character 'travels to the dimension' where he is the only thing not frozen in time); granting wishes (the character travels to a dimension where he has received whatever he has wished for)...and the like"

FREd, p111, emphasis my own. Offical rule. Official load of cack. IMHO of course!

Phil

[Sean Waters]

Had you thought of just using luck straight out of the box?

I don't like the EDM model: this always plays through my head when I see it:


The Patriot: Forward, Defenders of Freedom, we most stop the monstrous Gorgo from flattening New York! I will use my Baton of Justice!

The Bald Eagle: ...and I will use my Call of Freedom!

The Winner: ...and I will use my EDM serendipity power.

The Patriot: ...The Winner! He just vanished - LOOK OUT BALD EAGLE!

The Bald Eagle: SPLAT!

The Patriot: If only The Winner were here, he would turn the tide of battle..oh nO!!! SPLAT!

...meanwhile, elsewhere, where somethin lucky happened...

The Winner: That was lucky, guys, Gorgo has vanished and I found a quarter! Guys...er....guys...?

On a more serious note, so long as no one suggests having a luck based VPP, I'm cool with whatever you want to do. Of course it all depends on how you want to play luck: if you roll it at the start or as you go along, and the level of the limitation may well depend on how many luck dice you have. Assuming you have lots it is less of a limitation than if you only have a few, but all the powers (except EDM) you suggested seem very reasonable.

[Funksaw]

Had you thought of just using luck straight out of the box?

I don't like the EDM model: this always plays through my head when I see it:



On a more serious note, so long as no one suggests having a luck based VPP, I'm cool with whatever you want to do. Of course it all depends on how you want to play luck: if you roll it at the start or as you go along, and the level of the limitation may well depend on how many luck dice you have. Assuming you have lots it is less of a limitation than if you only have a few, but all the powers (except EDM) you suggested seem very reasonable.

The problem is that I'm trying to reason from effects. In a number of games - even picked up in Mutants and Masterminds, there's Dramatic Editing," "Drama Points," "Drama Dice," and "Heroic Editing" -- basically a metagame mechanic where players assume control of small, insignificant events in order to move the plot along. In some games, it can very much allow for improbable events (Adventure! calls it "Obvious Continuity Violations" and charges points out the wazoo.) Others, such as Buffy are a bit more restrained - things along the lines of leaving clues, "remembering" that Old Man Margraves (before he was a zombie) used to keep a key to his shed under his potted plants, because you used to do babysitting for him, or even "Luckily, the car door was unlocked as you seek shelter from the zombies."

This *really* should be a separate power -- OR a separate application of the power under Luck, and would suggest it for 6th Edition, but EDM seems to be the only thing going there.

[Lord Liaden]

This *really* should be a separate power -- OR a separate application of the power under Luck, and would suggest it for 6th Edition, but EDM seems to be the only thing going there.

Well, if you look strictly at "official" rules, you're probably right. This is a subject that a number of HERO gamers have given thought to, though, and several have created their own approaches to luck/fate/karma, attempting to add the flexibility of the other games you cite while still tying them into standard HERO mechanics.

If you look under this thread (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22714) you'll find most of them, including the most fully developed ones. For the most part they involve additions to the standard ruleset which don't invalidate any official writeups.

[AmadanNaBriona]

If you look under this thread (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22714) you'll find most of them, including the most fully developed ones. For the most part they involve additions to the standard ruleset which don't invalidate any official writeups.
I confess to not having read this thread, but have always liked the whole basic idea of "fate points" or whatever you want to call them. I've used several different variations of the idea, but the one I finally settled on for my Justice Inc. game was in the realm of an optional rule...
Pushing your Luck
Heros are favored by fate, and often have luck on their side. But Lady Luck is a fickle mistress and her price is high.
Any player can alter game events in ways very similar to luck, but at a cost. They tell the GM that they wish to avoid or alter a situation for dramatic purposes. If the GM agrees, then he or she will determine how many levels of luck are needed to acheive the effect. A simple reroll would usually take 1 level of luck. Changing sucess to failure, or vice versa, could be one level or more, depending on the situation. Generally, the earlier in a sequence of events a character pushes his luck, the less levels of effect will be needed. Thus, its easier to "happen" to grab a stray bush after failing a climbing roll than it is to "happen" to find a soft landing spot while falling from a sheer cliff.
After the GM has determined the appropriate effect level, for the duration of the session, or chapter, or other dramatic time interval that seems appropriate, the character looses any luck that was used while pushing. There is no requirement, however, that the character have luck in the first place. if the effect of the push goes negative, the character gains temporary unluck dice till his balance is restored.
As an example....
Our Stong Jawed Hero, in classic "Harrison Ford-type character" is built with say, 3D6 Luck and 2D6 unluck. He's running away from several hundred enraged natives. He goes sprinting across a rickety bridge over a chasm. The GM decides this is a good time to check luck. His luck comes up naught, but both unluck dice hit. The bridge breaks. The players tries to leap for the far portion of the broken bridge and grab ahold so he can swing across and then climb to saftey. He leaps, grabs the bridge, swings across and is stunned by the impact with the wall. He fails a roll to hang on while stunned, and finds himself falling 500 feet to the bottom of the chasm and probably his doom. At this point, the GM checks his luck again, as he's REALLY in trouble, but has been keeping in the spirit of the genre. No dice. So the player pushes his luck.
The GM decides that it'd take 2 levels of luck to take half damage on impact (say, falling trough tree branches) or 3 to manage to hit a deep pool in the winding river below. The character hits the pool. Having pushed his luck 3 levels, he now has to deal with the next scene with NO functiong dice of luck, and 2 dice of unluck. If he winds up having to do something similar, to ofset his bad luck, he'll find the rest of the scene being played out with his new temporary 5D6 of unluck. Eventually, a players luck will run out. I usually cap this at a max of 5 dice unluck. This mechanic also works well for characters bought with Luck as a main portion of the charater, as it allows them the option of spending some of their short term potential luck to pull of the Longshot type effects that, say 10D6, luck should allow for without always having to make their luck rolls.

[Sean Waters]

I still think luck is the very thing. Luck is inherently unpredictable: you have to be sure you don't turn it into a get out of jail free card. Having said that AmadanNaBriona's idea has a lot to recommend it. I like the free flowing mechanics.

I prefer using up unspent XP though. With GM permission you can buy, when ever you like, for 1 point of XP 1d6 of luck with the limitations '1 charge: never recovers' (-4), and you have to roll it there and then. The cost works out and everything at 1 point and when it is gone it is gone - it never recovers! You can buy as much as you like, but you can only buy it once for one 'event' (so the Harrison Ford in ANBs example would have to guess how many XP to blow to save himself from the fall. He could get it wrong, or he could wind up with more luck points than he needs and have blown XP unnecessarily. Them's the breaks.).

This encourages people to save some points rather than spend them immediately, and can slow character progression, but then if you look at comics/films, charatcers aren't developing new powers every few weeks. I don't mind that. You might.

You might call it dicing with death...

[AmadanNaBriona]

That mechanic is quite similar to the one I use for my FH and Champs campaigns, which are a little less cinematic than my pulp games. We play with fairly strong starting chracters, which when combined with an "instant" XP luck system can encourage XP hoarding. Which I like. I tend to prefer "radiation accident/ retraining" types of XP expenditures, where players save up a chunk of XP then use them to alter part of the focus of the character...
The Viking warrior is laid up for 6 months with a major slow healing injury, so starts studying with a Galdor-Vitki and learns runecraft spells.
the rogue gets caught on the front lines of a war, narrowly manages to survive, and decides to go to the local blademaster to learn how to defend herself.
The power armor hero decides he needs to be able to add some modular attachments to his armor to deal with special situations, so he buys a VPP for said attachments.
But I'm going off topic...

[Sean Waters]

That mechanic is quite similar to the one I use for my FH and Champs campaigns, which are a little less cinematic than my pulp games. We play with fairly strong starting chracters, which when combined with an "instant" XP luck system can encourage XP hoarding. Which I like. I tend to prefer "radiation accident/ retraining" types of XP expenditures, where players save up a chunk of XP then use them to alter part of the focus of the character...
The Viking warrior is laid up for 6 months with a major slow healing injury, so starts studying with a Galdor-Vitki and learns runecraft spells.
the rogue gets caught on the front lines of a war, narrowly manages to survive, and decides to go to the local blademaster to learn how to defend herself.
The power armor hero decides he needs to be able to add some modular attachments to his armor to deal with special situations, so he buys a VPP for said attachments.
But I'm going off topic...

It's good to have a game mechanic that can allow characters to 'push their luck' but not make doing so a dead cert (so to speak). We have a really odd approach to XP, but I quite agree with your sentiments!