Tell Me A Story

[Thrakazog]

I visited my FLGS for the first time, being new to the neighborhood, just this past weekend. The store had no HERO material, but was willing to order what I needed. They also left me with this parting quote:

"Let me know if you ever want to run a game here."

That got me wondering about doing exactly that, which led to me wondering about what resources HERO games provides for such things, which led me to the LoH part of the website.

I was wondering if any of the LoH members might be willing to share a story or two to give me a feel for how things go or what to expect. I've run many FTF games, but never in a formal atmosphere.

[Steve Long]

We have an adventure or two posted, and we sometimes arrange prizes for demos and things like that. And we've found that Legionnaires are often willing to share their own ideas and resources. ;)

[Thrakazog]

::cricket...cricket...cricket...cricket...cricket. ..::


Maybe none of them are forum members? :)

[teh bunneh]

What sort of story are you looking for? I've run LoH games at my FLGS and local cons for a while. One of the adventures that I use is up in the LoH Library.

If I'm running a game at the store, here's what I do: I put up a color poster on the store's bulletin board and near the door (I made a poster from one of the pics available from the Free Stuff page; I use the one with all the Champions). I just add the time and date, put a big colorful "SUPERHEROES!" banner at the top, and then print it on a color printer.

The last couple demos I've done got 4-5 players; I always plan for 8 and then scale it back. One year at a con I got 10 players! :D

I plan for a 4-hour game; if everybody wants to keep playing after that I can keep going. I use pre-gen characters (you could use The Champions from the Champs book, but I like to create my own -- if you're really interested, they're the Crusaders from Digital Hero #26). Bring a copy of the LoH form with you and have your players (and the shop's manager) sign it (although I've forgotten to do that in the last few sessions).

If you want to form a regular group, this is a good way to cherry-pick some good players. :D After the game is over, just pull the ones you like aside and ask if they're interested, then get their name/number. Don't wait too long to call them back, though, else they might have found someone else to game with already! ;)

Joining the Legion is quick and painless. I've never gotten prizes or anything form Hero, but then again I never asked.

(And if you do happen to run "Catch Me If You Can," let me know how it goes! :yes:

Is this what you're looking for, Thrak?

Bill.

[Thrakazog]

Is this what you're looking for, Thrak?

Bill.

Yes, exactly - stories about how people go about running games, what they like to do, unexpected things which may have happened to them, etc. Thanks, Bill.

[GreyGuardian]

Yes, exactly - stories about how people go about running games, what they like to do, unexpected things which may have happened to them, etc. Thanks, Bill.

have you ever been to a gaming convention? It's a very different setup than a comfy home game. store demos are similar but usually not as time pressured.

[Thrakazog]

have you ever been to a gaming convention? It's a very different setup than a comfy home game. store demos are similar but usually not as time pressured.

I went to and played AD&D at a convention some 17 years ago. I haven't been to a convention since. How "different" are we talking about? I mean, other than just playing with strangers.

Am I asking stupid or ignorant questions? If so, please ignore me. I just realized that my questions might be taken that way by convention veterans.

[teh bunneh]

Am I asking stupid or ignorant questions? If so, please ignore me. I just realized that my questions might be taken that way by convention veterans.

Nah, we were all newbies once. ;) Here are some things I've learned from running and playing in demos/con games. Others probably have different experiences, so take everything I say with as much salt as it may need.

One of the things to remember about con/demo games is that you have absolutely no control over who joins your game. You can get people who want to hack 'n' slash, people who want a cerebral role-playing experience, people just there because their friends are there, people who've never played before, and people who are really into the game. So as GM, you gotta learn to roll with it; follow the players' lead.

When you're running a Hero game, you want to showcase the system to get people interested in it. Don't get bogged down in the mechanics. Don't create really complicated characters. If you've got people who've never played the system before, give them the basics before you begin -- "It's a 3d6 Roll Under system. Baseline human stats are 10; maximum human stats are 20. Initiative is determined by order of SPD. Mr. Fireball, you've got two attacks -- a big one that affects a single target, and a smaller one that fills the whole room with flame. Madam Frost, you can encase someone in ice so they can't move or shoot razor-sharp ice shards at them. If anyone has any questions about their character or the game, I'll answer; otherwise, let's play!"

Try to do all the math beforehand (for instance, I never tell people "11+OCV-roll=DCV hit." I tell them "Your Offense is 20. Roll 3d6 and tell me how much you made it by; I'll tell you if you hit or not." I've had players tell me after the game that they thought the math was going to be hard, and they were surprised that it wasn't. This is the kind of image we want Hero to have. ;)

Ask the store manager to order an extra copy of Sidekick or two, and if the players enjoy the game suggest they pick it up. Heck, at only $10 a copy, you might just buy them and give them to your players. :)

Like GreyGuardian mentioned, Con games have a time-pressure. Demo games are a little more relaxed. If everyone is cool about it, you can slow the game down to talk about the mechanics, or answer players' questions, or offer alternate tactical advice ("Would you like to try a Move Through? It's sort of like a flying tackle -- you run as fast as you can and slam into him; it's harder to hit, but with your STR you'll probably do lots of damage.")

My personal philosophy is that Con/demo games, being one-shots, should have lots of action mixed with a little bit of thinking. 2-3 fights works well for me -- usually two small fights and one big one. I stick a puzzle or a simple mystery in the middle to make it interesting and keep it from seeming like a wargame. I always start with a fight -- assume the heroes are already together, assume they already know and trust one another, and assume they're already at the bank when the robbery occurs. It's too much hassle (in a one-shot con game) to try to get a bunch of strangers to work together. ;) However, YMMV. I've played con games where there were no fights, only role-playing and puzzle solving and those are fun too. :D

Never, ever make one particular character central to the plot. Invariably, either no one will want to play that character, or the guy playing him will have to leave halfway through the game. Don't ever put the players in a situation where they need Madam Frost to make an ice-bridge to cross the chasm. Let there be alternate ways across. Trust me!

When I run, I have a stable of 12 characters for the players to choose from. That way, no one is ever left with a character they have no interest in playing: "I really wanted to play Dr. Invincible, and Mr. Fire looked interesting too, but the others picked them before me. So I guess I'm stuck with Doofus the Sidekick." :( But then again, I love making characters.

IMHO, pre-gen characters should be instantly recognizable and iconic. An unflappable Patriot, a super-brainy Powered Armor guy, a dumb-but-good-hearted Brick, a hot-headed Blaster, an inscrutable Super-Mage, a hyperactive Speedster... they are iconic for a reason. Funky power builds, personalities, and origins are great in a campaign, but in a one-shot you want your players to be able to get into character instantly.

Avoid over-complicated character builds. Unless it's important to the plot, demo characters don't need "KS: Flower Arranging"-type skills. As long as everyone can dish out and absorb roughly the same amount of damage in a fight, you're good. I played in a con game once where the characters had so many skills, backgrounds, etc, that it was impossible to read the friggin' character sheet -- and 90% of those skills/perks/talents never came up in play! :frustration:

I'm starting to run out of ideas. If you've got any more questions, ask away! :)

Bill.

[Steve Long]

Keyes_bill is definitely firing on all cylinders here in my experience. His advice is dead-on.

As someone who's run games at many different conventions, I think his point about "you don't know who you'll get" should be stressed. It's often difficult enough to roleplay with a group of people you know and like; at a convention you have no idea what types of players will be at the table with you. Even if your adventure description provides specific guidelines (e.g., "Experienced players only"), people signing up for the game may overlook or ignore those guidelines.

I've seen some of these groups really coalesce and do well together, and others just get nowhere because no one was willing to take the initiative or really work as a group. The key, as Bill points out, is GM flexibility -- you've got to be ready to roll with the punches in case they come up with something really off the wall. ;)

For newcomer games, don't forget we've got some stuff on the Free Stuff page, like the two-page Combat Summary, to help players learn the ropes.

[GreyGuardian]

You are most certainly NOT asking stupid questions. Actually they are pretty good ones.

There is room for ks:flower arranging but organize the character sheet so that a new player can see what their options are without getting lost. Generally it's like a good film script - everything that gets show to the players should have some use during the game. Never hinge events on one skill or one character, but you can have knowledge checks etc that make something later a little easier. I like to give the players background notes on the personality of a pre-gen and relationship to the other characters. But you have to Keep it brief.

Good luck!

[Thrakazog]

Great stuff, guys. I appreciate it. I'm going to take a look at my calendar back home and see what kind of time I have to maybe do this.

[map]

I have also posted a Champions adventure in the LoH files section, for others run run. Feel free to email me if you want to run it and need help with the adventure.

phillips@cfl.rr.com



-map

[teh bunneh]

Hey Thrak -- have you done this yet? How'd it go? Inquiring minds and all that... :D

Bill.

[tancred]

Hey, Steve, is your Artifacts of Malice adventure in the LOH list?
That was a wicked cool adventure that you ran at MACE. I'd like to use it myself, at a demo at my local FLGS.

If you don't want to give it all away ('cause you're planning on using it again) I totally understand. (But can you tell me who the villains were for Act 3? I forgot to write their names down.) :)

[Karmakaze]

One of the things to remember about con/demo games is that you have absolutely no control over who joins your game. You can get people who want to hack 'n' slash, people who want a cerebral role-playing experience, people just there because their friends are there, people who've never played before, and people who are really into the game. So as GM, you gotta learn to roll with it; follow the players' lead.

Ah yes, I will never forget the time that the players who showed up for "Attack of the Beautiful Princesses" game were angry and offended that they were expected to play female PCs. ("Who did you think the Princesses in the title and description were?" I asked, "We thought... maybe we were supposed to rescue them.") They proceeded to introduce thier PCs by character class rather than name. I scrapped the role-playing intense slightly silly plot and made it into a hack and riddle-solving game. (And the next year, added "Role-playing stressed, PC princesses provided" to the description.)

When you're running a Hero game, you want to showcase the system to get people interested in it. Don't get bogged down in the mechanics. Don't create really complicated characters. If you've got people who've never played the system before, give them the basics before you begin -- "It's a 3d6 Roll Under system. Baseline human stats are 10; maximum human stats are 20. Initiative is determined by order of SPD. Mr. Fireball, you've got two attacks -- a big one that affects a single target, and a smaller one that fills the whole room with flame. Madam Frost, you can encase someone in ice so they can't move or shoot razor-sharp ice shards at them. If anyone has any questions about their character or the game, I'll answer; otherwise, let's play!"

Agreed. My Hellenback games are deliberately novice friendly. When I get a mix of experienced expert and novice players I gently let the experts know I'm running rules-light (no hit locations, etc) and encourage them to help their novice neighbors with the rolls (watching for 'know-it-all' syndrome, of course). If I get all novices, I start early on telling the players how many dice to roll. A little later, I have them total up the rolls themselves. After that, I name the rolls and explain what skill/power it represents. After four hours, they're usually pretty fluent.

My personal philosophy is that Con/demo games, being one-shots, should have lots of action mixed with a little bit of thinking. 2-3 fights works well for me -- usually two small fights and one big one. I stick a puzzle or a simple mystery in the middle to make it interesting and keep it from seeming like a wargame. I always start with a fight -- assume the heroes are already together, assume they already know and trust one another, and assume they're already at the bank when the robbery occurs. It's too much hassle (in a one-shot con game) to try to get a bunch of strangers to work together. ;) However, YMMV. I've played con games where there were no fights, only role-playing and puzzle solving and those are fun too. :D

I'm really not that crazy about big fights at con games. They can really bog things down (in any system). I'll usually plan at least one small fight early on (to get the PCs used to one another and their abilities) and a larger climactic fight near the end which can be worked around or downgraded (or expanded, I suppose) depending on time constraints and what that particular group of players seem to enjoy.

Never, ever make one particular character central to the plot. Invariably, either no one will want to play that character, or the guy playing him will have to leave halfway through the game. Don't ever put the players in a situation where they need Madam Frost to make an ice-bridge to cross the chasm. Let there be alternate ways across. Trust me!

That's good advice for any game! For any required plot point, give a 'seed' for it to at least two (and three or four is better) of the PCs. They don't need to be the same seed (one character could know a fact from the internet, another has a contact, and a third just took a class on that...). It's also a good idea to have other ways of dropping anything necessary into the game in case you get too few PCs or a couple of lumps who sit on plot points.

When I run, I have a stable of 12 characters for the players to choose from. That way, no one is ever left with a character they have no interest in playing: "I really wanted to play Dr. Invincible, and Mr. Fire looked interesting too, but the others picked them before me. So I guess I'm stuck with Doofus the Sidekick." :( But then again, I love making characters.

Heh. I win. The University of Hellenback modules have 17, and I keep meaning to make more.

IMHO, pre-gen characters should be instantly recognizable and iconic. An unflappable Patriot, a super-brainy Powered Armor guy, a dumb-but-good-hearted Brick, a hot-headed Blaster, an inscrutable Super-Mage, a hyperactive Speedster... they are iconic for a reason. Funky power builds, personalities, and origins are great in a campaign, but in a one-shot you want your players to be able to get into character instantly.

Absolutely. Four hours (at a con) or an evening (at a gaming store) isn't enough time to really grok subtleties.

[AlHazred]

Ah yes, I will never forget the time that the players who showed up for "Attack of the Beautiful Princesses" game were angry and offended that they were expected to play female PCs. ("Who did you think the Princesses in the title and description were?" I asked, "We thought... maybe we were supposed to rescue them.") They proceeded to introduce thier PCs by character class rather than name. I scrapped the role-playing intense slightly silly plot and made it into a hack and riddle-solving game. (And the next year, added "Role-playing stressed, PC princesses provided" to the description.)

Personally, I thought the guy who showed up at the "Beautiful Princesses" session at GenCon (last year?) definitely "got it". The guy with the tiaras.

I've never run a demo at a store. I've posted elsewhere on the boards my ideas for running games at Cons, which are slightly different in focus - you are under stronger time pressure, and are competing with other games for your players. I try to schedule my games accordingly; if possible, I schedule things so that Hero System is the most interesting-looking game for the slot, and I never want to run Hero System in the same slot as another GM (which is why, for instance, I'll try to call Karmakaze ahead of time). New Jersey Cons do not generate enough players for us to share them.

So far, all my Con games have been pretty positive. Maybe I'll have a story for you after DexCon.

[teh bunneh]

I'm really not that crazy about big fights at con games. They can really bog things down (in any system). I'll usually plan at least one small fight early on (to get the PCs used to one another and their abilities) and a larger climactic fight near the end which can be worked around or downgraded (or expanded, I suppose) depending on time constraints and what that particular group of players seem to enjoy.

Yes, perhaps I should have said "climactic" rather than "big." A big fight with 47 agents, 12 supervillains, and 63 robots will certainly bog down a game. ;)

Heh. I win. The University of Hellenback modules have 17, and I keep meaning to make more.

One thing about us Champions players/GMs... we loves making us some characters, don't we? ;)

So, Thrak, any updates on this?

Bill.