Poll: Hero Designer Thoughts

[Herolover]

I thought this would be a great way to give Dan and the other folks at DOJ some hard feedback on their program.

I am in the area that I wasn't sure, got it, had some problems, but now I love it. The great thing is with Dan's help the program will only get better.

[SAVeira]

Being a user of HeroMaker and then Hero Creator, that was never fully happy with either product, I was not sure that HD would be any better. I was never glad to be wrong. It is simply the best gaming resource program I have every used.


S.A. Veira

[Monolith]

I sort of fall in-between the top two. I always wanted it, and I like it quite a bit, but I also wish it were a little more flexible. There are work-arounds for most thing, but once in a while you just get stumped.

Overall I think it is an excellent program though. It's only real hang up is the amount of memory it requires. I feel sorry for the people with only 128mb who are using it.

[Starwolf]

I always wanted it, got it and love it, However....

I have struggled with minimum system requirements...my problem not the programs...

I would like a little more flexability as Monolith stated above. But when I compare it to other apps out there like CW, or (Ack!) E-Tools, HD is far and away the best app I have.

Good Job DAN!!!:D

[Jerry A!]

Didn't really think about getting it originally. Lots of reasons. The biggest of which being that I don't own a single computre that runs windows. So, it's easy to give gaming software in general a pass (since it's Win32-centric).

That, and most programs I've seen or used in the past just suck. It's sad that I know people who create characters in Baldur's Gate (or whatever the latest incarnation of that game line is) because it's better than E-Tools. :confused:

Anyway, saw the good feedback that people were giving on the software and that there was also a Linux version. On a lark, I dropped some coin.

It's now an indespensible part of my toolkit. This program freakin' rocks!

Now, if only HeroSphere would work under Linux. :(

[nblade]

Originally posted by Jerry A!
Didn't really think about getting it originally. Lots of reasons. The biggest of which being that I don't own a single computre that runs windows. So, it's easy to give gaming software in general a pass (since it's Win32-centric).

That, and most programs I've seen or used in the past just suck. It's sad that I know people who create characters in Baldur's Gate (or whatever the latest incarnation of that game line is) because it's better than E-Tools. :confused:

Anyway, saw the good feedback that people were giving on the software and that there was also a Linux version. On a lark, I dropped some coin.

It's now an indespensible part of my toolkit. This program freakin' rocks!

Now, if only HeroSphere would work under Linux. :(

I'm sort of like you, everything but my business/work/Ham Radio/personal laptop is a linux box. So I was happy to have a program that ran on the linux platform. I was a bit leary of the product, as I'm not a real big fan of Java. Most of the Java programs I've seen suck. This one really surprised me it didn't suck. (or at the very least sucked only a bit). There is some small issues with ability to have some house rule mods. That said, I will be real interested to see what Dan pulls out of his hat when he start to work on Version 2 later down the road. I'm sure that he will address some of these issues.

As a side note, I agree it would be intresting to see Herosphere work on a linux box, although I'm not sure if it is really worth using.

[Simon]

Originally posted by nblade
This one really surprised me it didn't suck. (or at the very least sucked only a bit).
[/B]

LOL! Now <b>there's</b> a quote for the back of the box....

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by dsimon
LOL! Now <b>there's</b> a quote for the back of the box....

HERO DESIGNER
from Hero Games
"WOW... I am so completely shocked that this didn't suck!" - Satisfied Customer
"A lot less terrible than I imagined." - Another Satisfied Customer
"Chocked full of Code!" - Dan Simon
"Two Thumbs ... somewhere in the middle" - Sissy and Eggbert

[nblade]

Originally posted by dsimon
LOL! Now <b>there's</b> a quote for the back of the box....

Glad (I think) to be of servuice :)

[Chaosliege]

When I first heard about HD I wasn't sure. I've used HC and Heromaker in the past and had issues with both. Then when I started the Beta testing, I realised this was he best character creation software out there. You can complain if you want, but I have yet to see anything even close.

BTW. wth regards to the 'didn't want it, got it and hate it' option.
Who would ever be in this category?
Maybe another quote for the box.

" I thought it would suck, and sure 'nuf it does"...

[Fitz]

Maybe "always wanted it" is a bit of an exagerration -- I used to use Creation Workshop (later Metacreator) and I suspected at first that Hero Designer would really just be reinventing the wheel because of somebody's business disagreements.

That attitude changed pretty much as soon as I downloaded the very first alpha test version; it was clear even then that the program had great potential, and that it was already more intuitive and easier to customize than CW.

The development process, involving end-users in the process almost right from the beginning, also gave me great encouragement, as Dan responded to bug reports and feature requests with a promptness which I have NEVER seen in any other development programme. Admittedly, some of Dan's responses to a few questions got a bit, shall we say "tetchy" at times, :) but considering that he must have been working his arse off I was (and am) prepared to cut him a little slack in this area. In my own personal opinion, I think that a lot of people are too thin-skinned and expect far too much to have their delicate sensibilities pandered to.... but that's a whole other rant. :)

Anyway, I think the program is great, I'm looking forward to seeing what Dan does with version 2, and I think he's done a great job. Congrats.

[Ghost Archer]

I wish you had added an extra selection like "Don't want it. Ain't gonna get it."
I started with HeroMaker and loved it and only reluctantly updated to HeroCreator. Then I moved on to HeroCreator and found it to be a far better product. Then came MetaCreator and I looked at it as a way to get more money out of me and resented it but I bought it and haven't regretted it for a moment.
Now Hero comes along and tells me I need this NEW and IMPROVED, LATEST and GREATEST...why do I hear George Carlin's voice when I say that? Again, I look at it as a way to drag some more bucks out of my pocket. Mind you, I am a major Hero fan, I have, over the years, purchased just about everything Hero has put out, even "Scourge from the Deep" *gag*...but this time, I need serious convincing.
Don't give me crap about it being easier to modify, I do just fine with MetaCreator. And what about this JAVA garbage? I have a program I use all the time that is JAVA based and it crashes regularly, is slow as hell and I wouldn't use it if I had an option. I tried the demo of Hero Designer and frankly, found it clunky and slow and far more difficult to get around in then MetaCreator. Though I haven't printed a character sheet with HD, I have been reading the boards and have noted the problems that have been reported with printing character sheets. With MetaCreator, I just hit print and perfect sheets every time, with pictures.
So, until someone can give me a concrete reason to give up a program I am happy with and shell out more bucks for a program I that might only marginally be an improvement, put me down for "Don't want it, ain't gonna get it."

[Simon]

Ghost Archer - Don't buy it. You'll just be pissed off when v2 comes out (which will be available for a fee) and will accuse Hero of trying to take more of your money.

I have dropped countless thousands of dollars keeping my computers up to date. Seemingly constantly upgrading the RAM, the processors, the drives, etc.

I have purchased BBB, only to find FREd released (which I purchased).

I buy software (often for very large sums of money), only to have to pay to have it upgraded a year later.

All of this is normal. It doesn't bother me one bit.

You bought HeroMaker. Great. You (hopefully) got to use it a fair bit. If you want, you could still use it.

When Hero Creator came out, the guy that made it spent a good deal of his time designing and developing it. He sold it so that he could make a little bit of money for his time. It was your choice to purchase it.

He then spent more time making Meta Creator. Again, selling it so that he could make some money for the time and effort that he had put into it. Again, it was your choice to purchase it.

I wrote Hero Designer. I can tell you that there is not a chance that I will make the money that I would normally charge for my time off of it, but, at the same time, I do hope to make at least _some_ money off of it. I don't expect everyone to buy it. I don't expect everyone to even <b>like</b> it.

If you tried it during the public beta test and didn't like it, then it would be truly foolish for you to purchase it.

It sounds as if you've already made your decision. I'm certainly not going to try to "talk you into" purchasing it....that would just be trouble for both you and me: you'd be unhappy with the product and I would (inevitably) hear about it from you.

I'm very gratified that the vast majority of the people who have tried Hero Designer seem to like it. I never expected that I would write "The One True Chargen" that the entire world would look upon and rejoice. I fully expect that there are plenty of folks of like mind to yours who don't want HD and wouldn't like it much anyway. I think that this is a very normal situation.

There were two parties that I was interested in making happy with HD: Hero Games and myself. I am very happy with the way HD turned out. There are some things that I'm looking to improve upon, but I think that for a version 1 app, it's far better than I had anticipated going into the project. Likewise, I have received nothing buy good comments from Hero Games. Across the board, they seem to be very happy with the app and its functionality. So, I have done exactly what I set out to do. Everything else from this point forward is gravy.

As stated, I'm very pleased that other folks are enjoying HD. I will continue to improve/modify the application based on their feedback. But I'm not at all surprised that there are some out there who see no need for the app and who don't like it when they use it.

[Graviton]

I never used Hero Maker nor Hero Creator. I saw a demo of one of them once, years ago, and didn't like it at all. In fact, none of the software I've seen in the past to support Hero stuff has been usable, IMO. I don't even like Herosphere, from what I've seen of the demo (admittedly I haven't played around with it much, but I am certainly never going to have my players huddled around a computer to game. Blech.)

But I abso-freakin-lutely LOVE Hero Designer. It's great, great stuff. It's cut my character creation time by 75% and it beats hell out of having reams and reams of characters sheets to store. I can easily print the sheets when I need 'em, in various formats or one of my own. I can easily track and spend XPs. I can easily email my PCs to my GM, and get his PCs. Best of all, it has enabled my kids to sit down and enjoy creating characters. They would watch me sit for hours with a couple of books open, scribbled notes, a calculator that kept getting lost, and they dreaded doing characters. Now they can sit down and just point and click their way to a character in an hour or so, without requiring an encyclopedic knowledge of the rulebook. Now they're brimming with ideas.

All of this, coinciding as it did with our upgrade to FREd, has given our campaign a big shot in the arm. As if that all weren't enough, Dan provides unprecedented customer service and maintenance releases. It's easily the best dollar value of any gaming expenditure I've ever made outside of the rulebook itself. :D

[Agent X]

Heromaker rocked! It was quick and dirty and to the point.

Hero Designer is a great program. I have played around with it on my friend's computer some. I don't care for having to switch windows quite so often and I don't care for the built-in rules enforcements that hinder my house rules. So, I don't intend to buy it or v2 unless I hear that I can customize the program more to my liking.

I use... Word. It takes a little longer but I find I think about the character construction more and get more creative characters.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Agent X
I use... Word.

MICROSOFT RUNNING-DOG! um... sorry... my Unix box bit me...

[zornwil]

Like Monolith, I wish there were a choice between "unsure" and "love", I also fall inbetween. It is useful, I like it, but I wish it were more customizable and won't really be moving over from using MetaCreator, at least not fully. But I think it will continue to get cooler and there are features in it that are quite useful, so I intend to stay up with the releases. Kudos to Dan SImon.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by zornwil
Like Monolith, I wish there were a choice between "unsure" and "love.

Perhaps, and I'm just Spit-balling here. the word *thumbs through thesaurus*... the word:
LIKE... yes... Like is good.

[archermoo]

I picked the "Didn't want it, got it and loved it". Not entirely true, as I got convinced of the value of the product before it was actually even in alpha testing, but closest to what I felt about it. I never really liked HeroMaker, but I was quite happy with Creation Workshop/MetaCreator, and was rather annoyed when I found out that HERO had decided to go with a new program rather than continuing to support CW/MC. However, the more I heard about HD, the better it sounded.

It isn't perfect, nothing is. Some house rules are harder to implement than others, but for the most part I consider the fact that it actually enforces the rules to be great, particularly for people that are new to the system. Lots of people make the assumption that the official chargen for a game won't let you break the rules, and therefor if the chargen lets you do it, it must be okay.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by archermoo
I picked the "Didn't want it, got it and loved it". Not entirely true, as I got convinced of the value of the product before it was actually even in alpha testing, but closest to what I felt about it. I never really liked HeroMaker, but I was quite happy with Creation Workshop/MetaCreator, and was rather annoyed when I found out that HERO had decided to go with a new program rather than continuing to support CW/MC. However, the more I heard about HD, the better it sounded.

It isn't perfect, nothing is. Some house rules are harder to implement than others, but for the most part I consider the fact that it actually enforces the rules to be great, particularly for people that are new to the system. Lots of people make the assumption that the official chargen for a game won't let you break the rules, and therefor if the chargen lets you do it, it must be okay.

Yeah. That's a real problem. I've seen quite a few new players who use the character designers as a crutch for building their characters. I tell them to READ A BOOK! :D

[Enforcer84]

Got Heromaker, I didn't like it, I couldn't print, my printer wasn't supported.
Got CW was intrigued but it was too complex for me to change anything. I was hoping to be able create my own chargen programs for any game and while I am sure you can with it I couldn't. Got Metacreator and liked it alot, the meta's were easier to manipulate and I liked that.
When I heard HD was coming I was saddened. One that ALter Ego was no longer in the picture, I really respected the effort Bruce had put into it. I also had 2000+ character files and I thoght that there was no way I would want to shell out another 30$ for a new program.
Then I joined the Beta test. As testing went on, I saw the potential. Somethings weren't to my liking, but I liked most of what I was seeing. Then came the HC to HD conversion script. Poof all 2000 plus characters transferred to the new program. Was it a perfect translation? Nope, but alot easier than puting them together from scratch.
Then came the word that they were selling packets of the various hero products for HD. Sure its more money to spend but dang, I love it.
This product is so much more value for the buck than say... another company's Chacacter creation TOOLS. :cool:

I think the product is well done, and more importantly well supported. It is obvious that Hero is behind it and it is an important product in their eyes, again unlike ....that other company.

To me, the honeymoon with DOJ is still going strong, I am glad I see Hero products coming out and that they are of good quality. I am glad that the company seems to be doing well. I'm just glad.... oh my. I am a psychophant now... darnit.....better wrap
this
up

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Enforcer84
Got Heromaker, I didn't like it, I couldn't print, my printer wasn't supported.
Got CW was intrigued but it was too complex for me to change anything. I was hoping to be able create my own chargen programs for any game and while I am sure you can with it I couldn't. Got Metacreator and liked it alot, the meta's were easier to manipulate and I liked that.
When I heard HD was coming I was saddened. One that ALter Ego was no longer in the picture, I really respected the effort Bruce had put into it. I also had 2000+ character files and I thoght that there was no way I would want to shell out another 30$ for a new program.
Then I joined the Beta test. As testing went on, I saw the potential. Somethings weren't to my liking, but I liked most of what I was seeing. Then came the HC to HD conversion script. Poof all 2000 plus characters transferred to the new program. Was it a perfect translation? Nope, but alot easier than puting them together from scratch.
Then came the word that they were selling packets of the various hero products for HD. Sure its more money to spend but dang, I love it.
This product is so much more value for the buck than say... another company's Chacacter creation TOOLS. :cool:

I think the product is well done, and more importantly well supported. It is obvious that Hero is behind it and it is an important product in their eyes, again unlike ....that other company.

To me, the honeymoon with DOJ is still going strong, I am glad I see Hero products coming out and that they are of good quality. I am glad that the company seems to be doing well. I'm just glad.... oh my. I am a psychophant now... darnit.....better wrap
this
up

I hadn't considered the utility of HD in having copies of published characters on file. You have won me completely over! (Nobody tell Zootsoot that my opinion can be changed)

Now if I can find a way to get rid of my E-Commerce phobia...

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Agent X
Now if I can find a way to get rid of my E-Commerce phobia...
Buy it off with some experience points. :)

[Simon]

Originally posted by Agent X
I hadn't considered the utility of HD in having copies of published characters on file. You have won me completely over! (Nobody tell Zootsoot that my opinion can be changed)


Heh....just wait'll you get a load of v2 ;)

One of the big "new features" that I'll be putting into v2 is going to be the Character Repository....you'll be able to upload characters that you create to the repository (which should be able to fully index them automatically).....more importantly, you'll be able to search the repository by any number of parameters and find characters that have been posted. Need a villain for your next session? Just search the repository....

I haven't fully spec'd it out yet, but I'll likely be working in some "protection" schemes as well for folks that want to use the repository but not make their characters freely available (like GMs sharing villains without letting the players see).

Of course, if you find a match, you'll be able to open the character directly from the repository....no need to save it to your drive first....

[majorvictory]

I was a user of Hero Creator, and I've been pleased so far with HD, but I'm still playing with it.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by archermoo
Lots of people make the assumption that the official chargen for a game won't let you break the rules, and therefor if the chargen lets you do it, it must be okay.

It is a strength that it tries to enforce the rules, but I do think strongly it should WARN rather than STOP altogether violations of things like points fitting properly into ECs/MPs and such. Then it could display some symbol, like Metacreator's "!", to indicate the points are amiss. This is in the spirit of empowering the GM while ensuring awareness of the rules.

[lensman]

I am a special case. I have severe visual impairment, and do not code at all. So I am waiting for a really good skin to pump up the contrast and font size, which I can work around.
But what I need is speed.
Not system resource speed but app speed.
i need not to have so many check boxes that exist to be modified by many buttons which lead to mods and adders.
I am confident in Dan's talent and Nearly divine devotion to this work that he will cut down on the amount of real estate that has to be traversed on screen and condense or add hot keys to allow more stream of conciousness creation.

[Dr. Anomaly]

I got HeroMaker back when it first came out. (In fact, I've still got the original floppy running around here somewhere, and a few disks of character files. Hmmm. That reminds me: I gotta redo ANZAC for 5th! Anyway...)

HeroMaker helped quite a bit, but was severely lacking in a number of areas. When HeroCreator (and then MetaCreator) came out, I never bothered to get them. If they were like HeroMaker, I figured: why bother? I'm not so overwhelmed by HeroMaker that I've just GOT to have the nextgen program. After all, I still do most of my initial designs on paper, then use the program to 'neaten' things up.

When I heard about Hero Designer, I was, shall we say, a bit skeptical, based on my previous experience. Also, I am a programmer myself (and do freelance and consulting work) and *I* didn't like the thought of having to try and code all the various interactions the HERO system makes possible...so that was another addition to my skepticism.

The early reviews of the testers, though, began to erode my skepticism and I thought, "Well, maybe I'll give it a try after all."

So I ordered it. What did I find?

Hmmm. Written in Java. Yup, runs a LOT slower than native applications. Why the heck did he do THAT? Then I thought about cross-platform use and said "Hmmm... y'know, that was a really SMART move!"

WHAT? No 'Print' function? I've got to export it as HTML and THEN use a BROWSER to print it? WHAT ON EARTH WAS HE SMOKING? Then I thought "Hmmm..."

1) Much simpler than trying to interface directly with various system's printer drivers. There's that cross-platform thing, again.

2) Super-easy to post your characters to a web page, which is one of the easiest ways in the world to let people see and/or use them.

3) No character creation program I've ever used (for any system) has had a printout that was EXACTLY to my liking. I've got my own ways of doing things, y'see, and of course no program that wasn't written by ME will do things that way. But with the editable export templates...and how easy it is to modify the resultant HTML if the template still won't do it EXACTLY right because of some non-optional things...wow.

The "export to HTML and then print" that was one of my initial dislikes has instead become one of my favorite things about the program. Finally, the character sheet produced by the program is ACTUALLY CUSTOMIZABLE BY THE END USER! WOW!

And to top it all off, the level of service and support by Dan has been... well. Do you know, I can't actually think of an adjective that's strong enough to properly express my high opinion? I'd use words like "Stellar", "Superlative", or "Incredible", but they just don't convey my feelings properly -- ESPECIALLY when compared to the 'support' given to ANY other program on the face of this planet!

So I guess I'll have to settle for saying, "Dan, you've done an absolutely wonderful job with this program. Your support and service of the program, both in fixing bugs in a manner that goes way beyond 'timely' and in adding small enhancements asked for by the end-users, is stellar. Phenomenal. Supreme. Adjective, Adjective, BIGGER Adjective, and REALLY SUPREME Adjective."

In other words, I like it. You're great. :cool:

I can't wait to see what you'll come up with next!

[Trebuchet]

The one feature I really wish HD had would be a character drawing routine similar to Hero Machine. Hero Machine is pretty lame, but it's better than nothing. I've heard a version 2 is coming out soon that will be a quantum jump in capabilities. Even as a separate character-drawing program from which HD could import the images it would be incredibly useful if you're "artisically challenged" like me and can't draw.

How about it, Dan? Can we hope to see "Hero Draw" somewhere down the line?

[Ghost Archer]

Originally posted by dsimon
Ghost Archer - Don't buy it. You'll just be pissed off when v2 comes out (which will be available for a fee) and will accuse Hero of trying to take more of your money.

I appreciate your advice, Dan. I had already come to that conclusion.


Originally posted by dsimon
You bought HeroMaker. Great. You (hopefully) got to use it a fair bit. If you want, you could still use it.

I used it for a long time, in fact it took years to decide changing over to Hero Creator was worth it.


Originally posted by dsimon
It sounds as if you've already made your decision. I'm certainly not going to try to "talk you into" purchasing it....that would just be trouble for both you and me: you'd be unhappy with the product and I would (inevitably) hear about it from you.

Actually, no, I haven't 'made my decision". That's the point. I guess what I want to know and why I read these boards, is HD better then MetaCreator? How is it better? Dan's support of the program is amazing, his response time to questions is nearly instant. He's done a tremendous amount of work on what must be more of a love of the hobby than a job. But then, so is Bruce's dedication to MC and his support for the program and his response speed on the CW/MC board.
Dan, I got a little pithy with the comments on money and might have given you the wrong impression. I understand the vicious upgrade cycle but this isn't an upgrade, and money is less of a concern then I indicated. Money is more a principle.


Originally posted by zornwil
It is a strength that it tries to enforce the rules, but I do think strongly it should WARN rather than STOP altogether violations of things like points fitting properly into ECs/MPs and such. Then it could display some symbol, like Metacreator's "!", to indicate the points are amiss. This is in the spirit of empowering the GM while ensuring awareness of the rules.

That's one of the things I want to know about. Is this hard coded or can I modify it? With MC it only takes me a few seconds to alter requirements to suit my campign.

I'll just keep reading the posts here and wait for v2.0 and see what it has to offer. Any idea when that might be?

[Herolover]

Originally posted by Agent X
I use... Word. It takes a little longer but I find I think about the character construction more and get more creative characters. [/B]

I was using Metacreator till 5e came out and then Metacreator just couldn't do the job well enough so I switched to just using Word. I liked using Word a lot because I was able to get my character sheets to look exactly like the ones in the books.

When HD came out I knew I would get it, but wasn't sure what I would think of it. When I did get it I thought is was nice though I had two problems with it, slow and no export template that made character sheets that looked like the ones in the book.

I posted my comments, now the program is faster, still a little slow though, and I have export templates that though not perfect get me 90% of the way there.

Now, I still use word and my character creation time is cut way down. I can't wait to see what Dan pulls out for Version 2

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Agent X
Now if I can find a way to get rid of my E-Commerce phobia...

How many points do you get for that?

[lemming]

I used HeroMaker when it was in Beta Test and for awhile afterwards. I went to college with almost everyone who was part of the Hero Software group. Played a lot of games with Steve Barnes.
The biggest problem they had was with printing. I always printed to text, imported into Wordperfect and customized.
I still have a ton of characters from the e-books for HeroMaker. I need to get the CW -> HD filter at some point and do the full conversion process

CW I got when it came out, but I never really liked it that much. I wanted to, but certain things annoyed me about it. Around then I decided to go fully Linux at home and had hellish problems running CW under Wine.

Then I heard HD was coming and would support Linux. That sold it for me. I'm wishing for more flexibilty, but it's a good product with excellent support. And for almost everything I wish it would do, there's a work around.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
IActually, no, I haven't 'made my decision". That's the point. I guess what I want to know and why I read these boards, is HD better then MetaCreator? How is it better?

That's one of the things I want to know about. Is this hard coded or can I modify it? With MC it only takes me a few seconds to alter requirements to suit my campign.

Ghost Archer, if you have specific questions on the customization, feel free to throw them out here, I have done a lot of customization in MC and dealt with some issues in HD. I still think MC is the better program (for now) overall although there are things in HD which I think are slick and in many cases easier to do in HD than in MC. It just depends on what your specific needs are. Oh, it also depends on what your group uses, and my group is using both. You probably saw my comments before on this if you read the listserv but if not I can email them to you specifically (I doubt everyone wants to hear them again, even though it would boost my super-status here, I'm still an incompetent normal as of this writing!).

[Ghost Archer]

Originally posted by zornwil
Ghost Archer, if you have specific questions on the customization, feel free to throw them out here, I have done a lot of customization in MC and dealt with some issues in HD. I still think MC is the better program (for now) overall although there are things in HD which I think are slick and in many cases easier to do in HD than in MC. It just depends on what your specific needs are. Oh, it also depends on what your group uses, and my group is using both. You probably saw my comments before on this if you read the listserv but if not I can email them to you specifically (I doubt everyone wants to hear them again, even though it would boost my super-status here, I'm still an incompetent normal as of this writing!).

Now that is what I am looking for. Someone that has used CW/MC. Like you, I have done a LOT of work with customizing MC, including converting 4th to 5th and while I don't understand everything I'd like, I am doing pretty good...Is HD as easy to figure out? Is it as easy to modify? How about the rest of you former CW/MC users? Can anyone else give me an opinion? Should I take this to it's own tropic?

[Ben Seeman]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
So, until someone can give me a concrete reason to give up a program I am happy with and shell out more bucks for a program I that might only marginally be an improvement, put me down for "Don't want it, ain't gonna get it."
Well, I would think that the fact that it adheres to the 5th Edition rules. If you're not using FREd then you should by no means buy this software. But it seems to me that if you ARE using the 5th Edition that this software is better than any other previous character creation software simply becaue it is the only one that supports the rules without having tso tweak it yourself.

[Ghost Archer]

Originally posted by Ben Seeman
Well, I would think that the fact that it adheres to the 5th Edition rules. If you're not using FREd then you should by no means buy this software. But it seems to me that if you ARE using the 5th Edition that this software is better than any other previous character creation software simply becaue it is the only one that supports the rules without having tso tweak it yourself.

Thanks for the advice, Ben, but I had already 'tweaked' MC to 5th before HD really got started. Now it would be a little redundant to buy it on that basis. :)

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by Starwolf

I would like a little more flexability as Monolith stated above.


This is being discussed on the Hero Central boards, but from my understanding there are only a few immutable rules in place right now, and even those can be worked around with custom adders and custom modifiers. Is there something specific that you (and Monolith)are trying to do and can't. If you ever have a problem you can't figure out how to do with HD Dan is always willing to help and there are others out there who've been messing with it for awhile now that might be able to help.

[Starhawk]

I guess those folks who want HD to be "more flexible" can always go back to the ultimate in character creators--Pencil and Paper like us old timers had to use long ago ;) Seriously though, I think this is a fantastic product and applaud Dan for not only creating a wonderful product, but being so accessible for the end users of his product. This was a "wanted it, loved" all the way!!!

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
Now that is what I am looking for. Someone that has used CW/MC. Like you, I have done a LOT of work with customizing MC, including converting 4th to 5th and while I don't understand everything I'd like, I am doing pretty good...Is HD as easy to figure out? Is it as easy to modify? How about the rest of you former CW/MC users? Can anyone else give me an opinion? Should I take this to it's own tropic?

I think HD is easy to figure out, yes. Easy to modify, yes. The issue really is the limits of modification and how much it bugs you as to how it enforces the rules. You can recost things. You can add things in certain areas, but in other areas, like characteristics (including derived) you have to "scavenge" (reuse) whatever attributes are there, which is rather awkward. You canNOT easily redo the "inner working" formulas like you could in MC, the best example being END. While you CAN set things to be 1 END/5, for example, you canNOT do something offbeat like base the cost on Base instead of Active. Yes, I do this, and in MC I could make it do it. Can't do it in HD. But I admit, that is a little out there.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Checkmate
This is being discussed on the Hero Central boards, but from my understanding there are only a few immutable rules in place right now, and even those can be worked around with custom adders and custom modifiers. Is there something specific that you (and Monolith)are trying to do and can't. If you ever have a problem you can't figure out how to do with HD Dan is always willing to help and there are others out there who've been messing with it for awhile now that might be able to help.

One good example, and yes I posted this elsewhere but in case you're getting notified of replies and not other things, is basing END on 1/5 base cost instead of 1/5 active. I am not complaining per se, just responding to your point. Dan was able to help me by adding base cost to export tags, and that was great as it provides some output workarounds, but it is an example of the sort of thing you can't manipulate internally. Also, you can't add more brand new characteristics/derived characteristics than what exists already; you can repurpose some, but you can't exceed the limit. Also, when you repurpose something like "Base Size" for example it looks pretty funky.

[Simon]

Again, as I said on this before, HD is meant to create characters according to the Hero System. It is not a generic chargen and was never intended to be one. Making changes like adding new characteristics (and you <b>can</b> add some) or changing END from being based off of Active Cost to being based off of Base Cost (or some other formula) are fundamental changes to the rules.

Is it wrong of you to do this? No. But you are no longer playing by the Hero System rules. You are playing by your own.

Even when I work in the additional customization for v2, you're not going to be able to do stuff like that. I don't view this as a "shortcoming" in any way.

[lemming]

Originally posted by dsimon
Is it wrong of you to do this? No. But you are no longer playing by the Hero System rules. You are playing by your own.

Well, I will have to say it's easier to use our own rules in HD than in HeroMaker. CW seemed to handle the flexibilty better.

The reasons I'm sticking with HD is because it runs on Linux and uses XML for its files.

[JohnOSpencer]

Always wanted it, got it, love it.
My only gripe is that I have to manually convert Hero Creator characters to Hero Designer. Oh well, lifes a beach.:D

John Spencer

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by JohnOSpencer
Always wanted it, got it, love it.
My only gripe is that I have to manually convert Hero Creator characters to Hero Designer. Oh well, lifes a beach.:D

John Spencer

HAven't tried it but I believe that you can import them into HD...there should be instructions in the Documentation...IE Manuel. Have to make small adjustments for 5th rules after that but I've been told its not that bad...and BETTER than redoing the characters.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
HAven't tried it but I believe that you can import them into HD...there should be instructions in the Documentation...IE Manuel. Have to make small adjustments for 5th rules after that but I've been told its not that bad...and BETTER than redoing the characters.
There is a built in conversion for CW and HD. I converted all the Enemies of San Angelo characters with one click (well there were several little clicks to select all the characters to be converted). I then just saved them all and done. I think it took me about 5 minutes to do the entire EoSA book. :)

[JohnOSpencer]

Wel, now you've done it. Now I have nothing in Hero Designer to complain about!!!!:D

Thanks.

John Spencer

[zornwil]

Originally posted by dsimon
Again, as I said on this before, HD is meant to create characters according to the Hero System. It is not a generic chargen and was never intended to be one. Making changes like adding new characteristics (and you <b>can</b> add some) or changing END from being based off of Active Cost to being based off of Base Cost (or some other formula) are fundamental changes to the rules.

Is it wrong of you to do this? No. But you are no longer playing by the Hero System rules. You are playing by your own.

Even when I work in the additional customization for v2, you're not going to be able to do stuff like that. I don't view this as a "shortcoming" in any way.

I was going back to this old thread just to see if Ghost Archer had any other specific questions on comparing CW/MC and HD, then saw this comment. Dan, I'm not sure why you thought you had to write this, but "let me be perfectly clear", the purpose of my post had nothing to do with saying HD was "wrong" or had "shortcomings", it was in response to specific questions about what can it do/not do. That's all. I even said in my post that I was not complaining per se, I was answering their question. As you know I've been generally quiet on the "customization" topic for some time now as I don't feel the need to repeat how I feel anymore, nor will I herein. In large part that's because, as I pointed out, you've been helpful and extremely responsive with workarounds. So I just answered the questions raised in specific terms, and did not say that the program was "right" or "wrong".

However, as to a specific point you've made, you indicate that people can "add" some characteristics. To be more specific, what you mean is that characteristics not being used in one template can be repurposed in another, correct? I ask because that is how I have answered the question in the past - including in this thread, wherein I referred to it as scavenging from elsewhere. If I have misunderstood, please correct me. Thanks.

[Ghost Archer]

I haven't looked in on this thread for a while and boy did I mess up big time in my requests for information on HD. First I must apologize to Dan and thank him for his patience. I have been barking up the wrong tree and not paying enough attention to all the good people posting here and trying to help. I didn't modify MetaCreator to alter the Hero System. I modified MetaCreator to comply with the 5th Edition Rules. I realize now that any modifications to HD are NOT required. I am sorry that my thick headedness has caused so many to waste time trying to provide me with info that was not required. Chemo apparently not only saps the strength and appetite but fogs the mind, a truly annoying side effect (is it what worth any limitation to my Conversation Skill?).
Now, with that hopefully cleared up, perhaps I can finally come to the question that is really at the heart of all my rambling. What does HD offer that MC doesn't?

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
<stuff snipped>...What does HD offer that MC doesn't?

Having the modifiers on characteristics as mentioned in a recent thread here is great. It allowed me to add in some oddities in how martial arts are based on STR (sort of like the old rules but a tad different) more easily than in any prior MC edition.

Overall, I'd say it's easier to customize HD for "simple" stuff than MC. Just my opinion.

Cross-platform capability.

Packaging up "prefabs" is a great way to share common power or other constructs.

Because it strictly enforces 5th ed. rules, you don't have to look as closely at your PCs and worry if they ignored a warning or are doing something otherwise not quite by the book.

More facile selec tion of powers/skills/etc. because they are in a window to the side instead of a dialogue box you have to close to do other things.