Twink, Munchkin: Definitions?

[Agent 537]

I have been on the periphery of the roleplaying world for a long time, with occasional forays into it. I've been into online (occasional) roleplaying for almost four years. In all this time, I've seen terms thrown about that I've never been able to have fully defined to my satisfaction. Knowing what a savvy lot the folks at these forums are, I'm betting that you all will be able to help me.

What is a twink?

What is a munchkin?

Do objective definitions of the above terms exist? Or does everyone have their own subjective definition? Do the two overlap, such that a twink to one person is a munchkin to another? Are they really different words for the same type of behavior?

While I'm at it, what's a rules rapist? How is this different (and IS it different) from a rules lawyer?

I certainly wouldn't mind anecdotes to illustrate various definitions or points of view. I look forward to your responses.

Agent 537

[Jhamin]

When tring to wade through various gaming slang terms, your first stop should be:
http://www.gamerjargon.com/

That being said. Many of these terms are used somewhat interchangably. Depending on where you live the slang changes. When we all get on to the internet together it blends together. You can probably define fine shades of distinction, but most people probably mean similar things when they talk about munchkins and twinks. (for example)

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Agent 537
I have been on the periphery of the roleplaying world for a long time, with occasional forays into it. I've been into online (occasional) roleplaying for almost four years. In all this time, I've seen terms thrown about that I've never been able to have fully defined to my satisfaction. Knowing what a savvy lot the folks at these forums are, I'm betting that you all will be able to help me.

What is a twink?

What is a munchkin?

Do objective definitions of the above terms exist? Or does everyone have their own subjective definition? Do the two overlap, such that a twink to one person is a munchkin to another? Are they really different words for the same type of behavior?

While I'm at it, what's a rules rapist? How is this different (and IS it different) from a rules lawyer?

I certainly wouldn't mind anecdotes to illustrate various definitions or points of view. I look forward to your responses.

Agent 537

The accepted difinition of a Munchkin is a young powergamer that doesn't bother to learn the rules and tends to only remember the rules that work in his/her favor...

Twinks know the rules just fine and bend then every which way to get what they want... Guys who play their dead character's son and inherit all his stuff are classic Twinks.

Munchkins you can fix... Twinks should know better.

[Evil Steve]

MisterVimes, thanks for the simple definitions. While I disagree on some small points (purely semantics), I think you hit that one pretty square on.

Yes, I am hoping this doesn't re-awaken the munchkin debate of an earlier board.

Rules Rapists are those who examine the rules for the sole purpose of creating a character who gets the most for the least in all situations. This is more that efficiant character design, it frequently causes one to stop dead in your mental tracks as the full cosmic horror of what has been done sinks in.

The Rules Lawyers use the rules to support their possition on any call made by the GM. They can ususally quote rules sections like, well, lawyers.

The Rules Rapist, dispite the horrible connotations of the name, may not be overtly disruptive to the game or the GM. The Rules Lawyer usually is.

In fact, the Rules Lawyer is the only one I have not (and personally cannot) seen being argued as not intrinsically disruptive to a game.

[Agent 537]

Thanks for your replies, folks. And a special thanks to Jhamin. That link you gave me has been quite helpful, and is both an entertaining read and an excellent resource.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Evil Steve
MisterVimes, thanks for the simple definitions. While I disagree on some small points (purely semantics), I think you hit that one pretty square on.

Yes, I am hoping this doesn't re-awaken the munchkin debate of an earlier board.

Rules Rapists are those who examine the rules for the sole purpose of creating a character who gets the most for the least in all situations. This is more that efficiant character design, it frequently causes one to stop dead in your mental tracks as the full cosmic horror of what has been done sinks in.

The Rules Lawyers use the rules to support their possition on any call made by the GM. They can ususally quote rules sections like, well, lawyers.

The Rules Rapist, dispite the horrible connotations of the name, may not be overtly disruptive to the game or the GM. The Rules Lawyer usually is.

In fact, the Rules Lawyer is the only one I have not (and personally cannot) seen being argued as not intrinsically disruptive to a game.
I was kinda curious about the definition of a munchkin myself, even though I've gamed off and on for about 16 years. Evil Steve, thanx for the clarification on the rapist/lawyer thing. I've used both terms to mean the same thing, but I like your definitions better.
Side note: Even though I have yet to get my first game in several years started, I've made a list of house rules. Near the top of that currently short list is;
"Rules Rapists/Rules Lawyers WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. You know if you are one. The goal of the game is to have fun, and I will not exclude anyone from participating UNLESS you start to exhibit Rules Rapist behavior."

[Evil Steve]

Are you still intending to ban rules rapists given that the definition may have changed for you?

I am, of course, biased as I do make the rules thank me for the privilage after I'm done with them :)

[TheEmerged]

For the record, both of those terms have ENTIRELY different meanings in the world of MMORPG's (like DAoC, EQ, etc.).

A twink (noun) is a character that has gear far out of league with the character's level/ability to hunt and/or afford to buy. Usually, a twink is either an "alternate" of a high-level character or the friend of a high-level player.

To twink (verb) is to arrange or facillitate in the creation of a twink (noun, above). In some older MMORPG's (and MUD's, and MUSH's) the term also applies to higher-power characters allowing lower-power characters to "help" them kill something far above their power so they can loot it or get out-of-whack experience. This is more commonly called "power leveling" these days.

Munchkin in MMORPG's either refers to "shortie" races (like gnomes in EQ), or to players who openly abuse the unrealities of MMORPG life or strange oddities of the character system to get ahead. Munchkin's are most commonly noted for the ferocity of their whining when the inevitable happens and the people behind the MMORPG close the loopholes. Joke about MMORPG's if you've never played them goes like this -- rules in MMORPG's are like Cincinnati weather: don't get used to it, it's going to change.

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
For the record, both of those terms have ENTIRELY different meanings in the world of MMORPG's (like DAoC, EQ, etc.).

A twink (noun) is a character that has gear far out of league with the character's level/ability to hunt and/or afford to buy. Usually, a twink is either an "alternate" of a high-level character or the friend of a high-level player.


[/i]

And to expand upon this, some twinks are Ebay twinks (although Ebay doesn't allow the sales of EQ stuff anymore) where they have played real currency for virtual property. Now folks have to run over to playerauctions.com to do this type of twinking.

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Syberdwarf2

"Rules Rapists/Rules Lawyers WILL NOT BE TOLERATED."

Oops. I meant to say Rules Lawyers (not rules rapists). Sorry, EvilSteve.

[Peregrine]

I define 'munchkin' as 'anyone who disrupts others' enjoyment of the game'. Thus, you can have munchkin GMs as well as munchkin players; often, you also have munchkin kibbitzers, those folks who insist vehemently that YOU are playing the game WRONG, and that THEIR way of playing is the ONE TRUE WAY. They usually sling the term 'munchkin' at those whom they say are WRONG.

So, my 'munchkin alarm' goes off whenever I see someone accusing someone else (personally or generally) of being a 'munchkin'. (Yes, it's somewhat recursive.)

And I've always seen 'twink' as a shorthand for 'munchkin'; the above commentary applies.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

"Don't feed the munchkins," eh?

[Evil Steve]

No apology nessessary, Syberdwarf2. After all, its your game :). I was just curious.

Peregrine, your addition of GMs in the Twink/Munchkin definition is a requirement, as they can be as disruptive, if not more so.

[Peregrine]

Evil Steve,

Yup. Of course, of even more relevance (I think) is the kibbitzer, who wants to enforce their ONE TRUE WAY to game on everyone else, and slings the 'm' word at anyone who plays differently. (DEX/NCM wars, anyone?)

[Agent X]

What annoys me are the guys who want to rewrite their character week to week. What do you call them anyway?

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by Agent X
What annoys me are the guys who want to rewrite their character week to week. What do you call them anyway?

Sounds like a Mini-Maxer. Always trying to squeeze that extra point out or cover up some previously unseen weakness.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Law Dog
Sounds like a Mini-Maxer. Always trying to squeeze that extra point out or cover up some previously unseen weakness. Well, I don't know, we've got this anxious/nervous guy who plays with us and sometimes he would weaken his characters. We are less tolerant of the constant character sheet changes than we used to be.

[Boll Weevil]

Originally posted by Agent X
What annoys me are the guys who want to rewrite their character week to week. What do you call them anyway?

Casualties :D

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by Agent X
What annoys me are the guys who want to rewrite their character week to week. What do you call them anyway?

Addicted to being a uber-geek

[Syberdwarf2]

Originally posted by Agent X
What annoys me are the guys who want to rewrite their character week to week. What do you call them anyway?

NPC writeup assistant/ walking rulebook.

[Chaosliege]

Lawful Good Rules Lawyer, n.
a player who informs the GM of game rules that would be determinental to the player or the party; see rules lawyer, alignment. [FSG]

GM: "Okay Sara, your critical hit will destroy the vampire."
Sara: "Um...undead are immune to critical hits. He only takes a third of that damage."
GM: "Thanks for reminding me! The vampire turns into mist and disappears behind the crack under the door."
Bob: "Why the hell did you tell him that for?! Whose side are you on anyway?!"
Sara: "I'm on the side of truth. What side are you on?"
Bob: "%@#$ Lawful Good Rules Lawyer!"


I can't count how many times I've donr that. It's always inadvertant, and sometimes it's just a look. I'll sit there looking confused and the GM will ask what is wrong. Before I know it we're getting our asses kicked again.. :D