Pulp Hero Cometh

[Super Squirrel]

I'm really psyched about Pulp Hero. It didn't occur to me until recently. Last night we rented Sky Captain and the World of Tommorrow. I just sort of realized, how much I love the pulp genre. Now I can't wait for the new book to come out.

I have a million questions I want to get answered for this Hero Genre. But I will refrain from asking 999,998 of them. The second question is of greater importance because it will allow me to begin preparing early. :)

1. Will you be creating a Pulp Forum when the book is released?



2. Can you share any recommmended books and movies that you plan on mentioning in the book?

[Steve Long]

First off, I've moved this to the "Other Genres" forum, just to keep things consistent. ;) Now, on to the questions....

1. Probably. If it doesn't get enough traffic, we can always merge it back into Other Genres.

2. Well, beyond the obvious (reading actual pulp stories), I've come across a wide variety of interesting books on the subject of the pulps themselves, or discussing the time period, such as:

--just about anything by Robert Sampson, including his exhaustive 6-volume Yesterday's Faces series about the early pulps

--Richard Halliburton's travelogues

--Pulp Fictions, a Barnes & Noble collection of hardboiled detective stories (most from the pulp era)

--The Great Pulp Heroes, by Don Burleson

Feel free to ask more questions if you like; I am really looking forward to the project and don't mind answering 'em. If I don't have the time, they'll just sit here until I do. ;)

[Dr. Anomaly]

I really love Pulp stuff, too, and am VERY much looking forward to this project! :D

[shadowcat1313]

and with lots of inspiration on pulpish movies, such as Sky Captain and League of Extraondinary Gentlemen, can we avoid the Doc Savage movie with Ron Ely which is best forgotten?

heres another reference work I found in a bargain bin

"Pulp Art" by Robert Lesser, original cover paintings from the classic american pulp magazines. the section on SF pulp art was written by Forrest J Ackerman whos probably the worlds biggest SF fan, and leading expert on the era and SF in general... Forrest is an amazing font of knowledge on a lot of things from this era and fandom in general... I met him at a con years ago, and I understand hes been in failing health... is he still with us?
heres a website for Forrest
http://4forry.best.vwh.net/


its been a rough year already for SF, Jack Chalker and Frank Kelly Freas have are already gone.

[Starwolf]

By all means avoid the Doc Savage movie like the plague, but any discussion of the pulp era must include Doc and the Fab 5 from the novels/magazines. IRRC there were a couple of really bad Captain America movies before marvel got it right.

Sorry but I had to jump on this, I am an unadulterated Doc Fanboy -- and regrettably old enough to own a couple of original first print Doc novels, that I bought when they were new :idjit:

[Koshka]

I just double-checked at Amazon, and both the 1940 serial "The Green Hornet" and the 1941 serial "The Green Hornet Strikes Again!" are still available on VHS. I have both; they're a little late for the true pulp era, and there's some scenes (especially on the first serial) where you can tell the tape was not made from a mint-condition original, but they would still be good references.

(Oh, and if anyone else has them -- is that a genuine licence plate on the Black Beauty, or just a licence plate holder? I can't picture Britt driving down to the Department of Motor Vehicles to license his alter-ego's car ....)

[shadowcat1313]

we have a local used book store that has a lot of the newer priintings of the Doc Savage novels for a couple of bucks each, there just reading copies, but not bad for the price

do the Perry Rhodan novels count as pulp? there newer but seem to be written in the same style

[Greatwyrm]

Anybody know if there's a more firm release date for PulpHERO yet? Last I heard was "mid 2005".

[specks]

I think Steve said it would be a GenCon release. :)

[GamePhil]

Anybody know if there's a more firm release date for PulpHERO yet? Last I heard was "mid 2005".

Now it's mid-2006.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28307

[Steve Long]

GamePhil, either you're confused about something or I've misposted.

Pulp Hero is our GenCon 2005 release -- which is to say, it'll be out about six months from now. It wasn't moved to the 2006 schedule; that was never even contemplated. If we've intimated otherwise, please point me to where so I can correct it. ;)

[specks]

Now it's mid-2006.
GamePhil,

What Steve said! :thumbup:

[GamePhil]

I see my reading comprehension skills are still up to snuff. I was looking at the Resource Guide. At least the link is right! I get credit for that, right?

except of course that Pulp is a 2005 release, so the link is not right, either.

[Sketchpad]

I really love Pulp stuff, too, and am VERY much looking forward to this project! :D

I completely agree Doc ... in fact, I'm so interested in this that I'm contemplating running a regular Pulp Hero In Character Chat if there's enough interest :)

[Curufea]

Hmm, there's a thought-

Is "The Shadow" a Pulp Hero character, a Dark Champions character, or both?

[Captain Obvious]

There's a lot of overlap. The pulps had a large number of masked mystery men who fought crime and/or Nazis. Masks, crime-fighting, and odd powers make a lot of pulp guys fit the superhero genre, whereas the lower power level combined with a heavy reliance on real world tech makes a lot of them (probably most) fit the street-level supers genre, but simply having guns, fists, and the will to use them puts nearly all pulp heroes into the 5th Ed Dark Champions genre.

To my way of thinking, pulp heroes, superheroes, and masked vigilantes are all at least first cousins. Many are functionally twins....

[Steve Long]

I was looking at the Resource Guide. At least the link is right! I get credit for that, right?

Yes, credit has been awarded. ;)


Is "The Shadow" a Pulp Hero character, a Dark Champions character, or both?

Well, to my mind, he's unquestionably a Pulp Hero character. He appeared in the pulps, he acts like a pulp hero, he has the abilities and "feel" of a pulp character. The underworld the Shadow moves through is a relatively light-hearted and simple thing compared to that of the typical modern-day Dark Champions character -- the cruelest and most sadistic of the Shadow's foes pales in comparison to things like serial killers, Uzi-wielding 14-year-old gangstas curb-stomping their rivals, sadistic freaks dousing subway attendants with gasoline from spray bottles and setting them on fire for fun, rapists and stalkers, prostitutes turning tricks to earn just enough for some more heroin, and the other sorts of cruelties and tragedies that occur so often in modern metropoli.

You might have a better case arguing for the Spider, who was downright ruthless and murderous compared to the Shadow, but even he definitely falls in the Pulp camp, IMO.

[SAVeira]

For anyone looking to read the Doc Savage or Shadow stories, go here: http://www.blackmask.com/cgi-bin/newlinks/page.cgi?g=Pulp_Fiction%2Findex.html&d=1

Every single Doc Savage and Shadow story is available in a number of different formats. Plus, it is FREE. :rockon:

[Super Squirrel]

*cracks his knuckles*

Well, I tried to get some stuff but I didn't have much luck. I bought a copy of Lost World by Sir Arther Conan Doyle. I went to the library and picked up the Non-Fiction book The Curse of the Pharaohs by Philipp Vandenberg and King Solomon's Mines by H. Rider Haggard.

There was so much more I was after that I could get but I'll use what I have now. I'm already beginning to form the ideas behind two adventures and I have some of my campaign rules lined up. I'm going to require all players to put at least 25 points towards contacts. "I know this guy in..."

Oh, I need access to some good Nazi Pulp stories. If someone has some recommendations for those, I'd love to hear it.

[Agent 13]

The Pulp Heroes (http://www.geocities.com/jjnevins/pulpsintro.html)
Pulp Magazine Heroes (http://www.cs.uku.fi/%7Evaisala/Pulp.htm)
The Thrilling Detective Web Site (http://www.thrillingdetective.com/)
Jaap van Deijk 's Pulp Art Palace (http://vandeijk.fateback.com/index.html)
Doc Comics (http://www.geocities.com/doccomics/)
The Holloway Pages: Pulp Heroes (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ecjh5801a/Pulp.htm)

[CorPse]

You might have a better case arguing for the Spider, who was downright ruthless and murderous compared to the Shadow...

Where do I meet this Spider fella? Sounds like CorPse owes him a beer.

Seriously - does anyone have web links leading to more info on this intriguing sounding pulp era personage?

RIP,
CorPse

[Steve Long]

I don't have any links offhand, CorPse, other than

http://www.vintagelibrary.com

but just run a search for "spider richard wentworth" and I expect you'll pull up plenty of sites.

The difference I was alluding to was that compared to the Shadow stories (or just about any other crimebusting pulp stories), the Spider stories tend to be violent, bloody, and even overtly sexual. During the course of a Spider story, it's not uncommon for the villain to kill thousands of innocent people, for the Spider himself to gun down dozens of underworld thugs, and for female characters to get captured, stripped naked, and tortured.

[CorPse]

During the course of a Spider story, it's not uncommon for the villain to kill thousands of innocent people, for the Spider himself to gun down dozens of underworld thugs, and for female characters to get captured, stripped naked, and tortured.

And people thought old CorPsey was naughty.

Well, everybody needs something to aspire to... even the dearly departed.

Thanks for the (severed) heads-up!

CorPse :eg:

[Old Man]

Indiana Jones DUH..maybe that's why nobody said it.

The Rocketeer

The Land That Time Forgot

I think even Planet of the Apes qualifies on some level.

The book Dydeetown World is sci fi but still kinda pulp.

[GamePhil]

While I think it could have been quite a bit better, Sky Captain And The World Of Tomorrow made a game attempt, although it is rather at the "over the top" end of things.

The Doc Savage movie might be worth looking at: it seems an adequate portrail of "camp pulp" in much the same way as the 60's Batman series is "camp superhero". Not something that really gives you a good look at the genre, but might be useful if you want more comedy in it, or want a break from your normal game.

I hope I used enough qualifiers with that...

Radio shows can be gotten these days, including the Green Hornet (I think) and the Shadow.

[Curufea]

The key searchword to use is "OTR" for old time radio.

There are enough Shadow episodes available in mp3 format to confortably fill two CDs.

Although I prefer X-Minus One and Nero Wolfe :)

[Agent 13]

Earth Station 1 (http://www.earthstation1.com/Merchant/merchant.mv)
Old-Time Radio 'Program Guide' (http://www.old-time.com/toc.html)
Randy's Old Time Radio Programs (http://www.n8elq.com/)
Radio Theater on the Web (http://www.greatnorthernaudio.com/audio_theater/radio_theater.html)
The Cobalt Club (http://testbox.cob.rit.edu/)
Old Time Radio (OTR) - Radio Days: A Soundbite History (http://www.otr.com/index.shtml)
The OTR Vault (http://www.oldtimeradiovault.com/)
Radio 1710 Antioch OTR (http://radio.macinmind.com/)

[GamePhil]

Thanks, that'll be really handy.

[Super Squirrel]

Here is what I have drafted so far for my Pulp Hero campaign rules:


The Pulp Campaign will consist of a group of characters going on adventures. Each adventure will last between three to five sessions known as Chapters. Each Chapter will usually take place completely in one setting.

75 Points + 75 Points
25 Points must be spent on Contacts

1 XP per Pulp Adventure
+1 XP per Chapter
+1 XP if Adventure was Difficult

Players are encouraged to keep notes and an outline history of each session as key events and names are likely to come up again in future sessions. This also will make it easier for me to draft up Chapter summaries.

One interesting element in many pulp stories is naming a chapter after a quote said by one of the characters in that chapter. The quote is usually one to seven words long. For the purposes of this campaign, longer quotes are accepted. In the session notes, jot down one or two quotes that caught your attention and you feel might fit that night's session best.

For every quote that a player recommends that is used, a reward to the entire group will be considered. This reward could be a free, useful contact or could be an extra batch of experience points at the end of the adventure.

[Rubric]

Edgar Rice Burroughs was the king of pulp writers in the early part of the last century. He created:

Tarzan
Pellucidar (sort of a Land of the Lost setting)
John Carter, Warlord of Mars (blend of sci-fi and fantasy, but no magic)

as well as countless other stuff.

Also, there is a lot of material in other genres that owes a lot to the pulp era. Most people think of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon as sci-fi, but those are both clear pulp heroes if you ask me.

Likewise, a lot of stories that look superficially like they belong in the horror genre are actually pulp: The Mummy, Frankenstein, even Dracula. The recent Van Helsing movie was a good example of pulp horror. It didn't do well at the box office, but I liked it. Same with Sky Captain -- if you go into it expecting a totally serious movie, you might be disappointed, but if you alter your perspective they're both very entertaining.

I love this genre, but have never tried it as an RPG (although I did enjoy reading the old Justice Inc. stuff.) If I ran a pulp campaign, I would probably go with a "monster hunting" theme, as in Van Helsing or in that early '70s TV series about the reporter named Kolchak who killed vampires, zombies, etc. Can't think of the name right now, Night Stalkers I think.

[Curufea]

Earth Station 1 (http://www.earthstation1.com/Merchant/merchant.mv)
Old-Time Radio 'Program Guide' (http://www.old-time.com/toc.html)
Randy's Old Time Radio Programs (http://www.n8elq.com/)
Radio Theater on the Web (http://www.greatnorthernaudio.com/audio_theater/radio_theater.html)
The Cobalt Club (http://testbox.cob.rit.edu/)
Old Time Radio (OTR) - Radio Days: A Soundbite History (http://www.otr.com/index.shtml)
The OTR Vault (http://www.oldtimeradiovault.com/)
Radio 1710 Antioch OTR (http://radio.macinmind.com/)

Great stuff!

I used to get The Shadow from The Cobalt Club - but they've stopped their FTP service now.

[Starwolf]

For a more modern movie with a kind of Pulp/Horror/DC feel to it try Van Helsing.

[John T]

...or in that early '70s TV series about the reporter named Kolchak who killed vampires, zombies, etc. Can't think of the name right now, Night Stalkers I think.
Kolchak: The Night Stalker, IIRC.

Another show I enjoyed for the strong pulp-like influence, even if, like Kolchak, it didn't fall into the right time period was the original Johnny Quest cartoon.

Also, anything by H.P. Lovecraft (another "Duh" addition to the list :)).

John T

[Sketchpad]

Here's some more Pulpy goodness:
Cast a Deadly Spell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6302233941/qid=1109724758/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2974426-7357716?v=glance&s=video&n=507846)
King Solomon's Mines (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000YEETY/ref=pd_sim_dv_1/102-2974426-7357716?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846)
The Librarian: Quest for the Spear (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412915/)
Tales of the Gold Monkey (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083488/) Bring'em Back Alive! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083391/)

[Lamrok]

And people thought old CorPsey was naughty.

Well, everybody needs something to aspire to... even the dearly departed.

Thanks for the (severed) heads-up!

CorPse :eg:

The Spider is my avatar. He embodies the essential essence of the crazed psycho avenger.

[CorPse]

The Spider is my avatar. He embodies the essential essence of the crazed psycho avenger.

It's like I always say...

If something's worth avenging, it's worth avenging psychotically.

Love & Kisses,
CorPse

[Super Squirrel]

In the Lost World, the characters get up to the top of the ledge and cross over this great chasm with a fallen tree. Once they start exploring they hear this loud noise. The rush back to discover that two of the Indians they had been travelling with have pushed the tree bridge down the ledge. It turns out that one of the main characters had shot the brother some five years ago and now finally he has gotten his revenge.

So I did a write-up for that hunted as it is very pulp:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Val&#160;&#160;</b></td><td><b>Disadvantages</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15&#160;&#160;</td><td>Hunted: Assorted Enemies from Previous Adventures 8- (As Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)&#160;</td></tr></table>

[Beetle]

Hmm, there's a thought-

Is "The Shadow" a Pulp Hero character, a Dark Champions character, or both?I think the Shadow (both the radio and stories versions) qualify more as Pulp than DC, if for no other reason than the "tone" of the adventures (though I haven't read that many of the stories).

Speaking of the Shadow, some public libraries have pretty good collections of old radio programs. It'd be worth a look to see if you can find some from the Shadow (especially the Orson Wells era). But resist the urge to send for your complementary ton of Blue Coal (Pennsylvania's Finest Anthracite!). The movie (w/Alec Baldwin) isn't horrible, but it isn't very good, either. It does an interesting job blending the radio character with the one from the stories, but it doesn't know if it wants to be serious or tongue-in-cheek.

[Curufea]

I liked the movie - which is why I have it on DVD :)

[Super Squirrel]

We just got it in from Blockbuster Movie Pass today. We plan on watching it tommorrow night.

[Curufea]

They're all great in this movie - especially Tim Curry.

[Captain Obvious]

My wife picked up the The Shadow on VHS years ago at a yardsale, along with Spaceballs and a couple others. Maybe I'll drag it out this weekend and watch it with the kids....

[austenandrews]

I picked up the Sky Captain DVD last week and my kids have already watched it three times. I adore that movie. Someday I will run a very similar campaign.

I didn't realize Pulp Hero is coming out this year. Coolness. :)

[Supreme Serpent]

IRRC there were a couple of really bad Captain America movies before marvel got it right.



Not to derail the thread, but when did Marvel get it right? Surely you aren't referring to the one where the Red Skull was Italian?

[shem_whistler]

Not to derail the thread, but when did Marvel get it right? Surely you aren't referring to the one where the Red Skull was Italian?

I'm hoping that he's refering to Marvel films in general, they've been of a higher quality lately, with the exception of a few like Punisher and Hulk.

[Starwolf]

Definately I am refering to the Marvel films in general. I am holding out hope that they will re-do Cap with the same care they put into Daredevil and the X-Men.

[Beetle]

Not to derail the thread, but when did Marvel get it right? Surely you aren't referring to the one where the Red Skull was Italian?AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!! Do you have any idea how much therapy I went through to try and forget about that abomination!!!!

And now, to get us back on the rails - another helpful old radio program to get the feel of pulp would be Sam Spade. Sure, he doesn't have any freaky or wierd powers, he's just a San Francisco gumshoe. But the programs were really well done (if you can get past Effie, the secretary who's dumber than a post ... some women I know won't listen to Sam because of that).

[austenandrews]

To show my ignorance, I didn't realize Sam Spade had appeared anywhere outside of The Maltese Falcon.

But his secretary was dumb? In the movie she was "a good man, sister!"

[Agent 13]

To show my ignorance, I didn't realize Sam Spade had appeared anywhere outside of The Maltese Falcon.

Oh, yes, Sam had quite the career (http://www.thrillingdetective.com/spade_sam.html) in radio. You can listen to a couple of the shows here (http://www.otrfan.com/otr/series/spade.html).

[Agent 13]

Wold Newton book contents - and a second Wold Newton Universe book (http://www.livejournal.com/users/woldnewton_win/977.html)

[st barbara]

Well paint me green and call me "the hulk" "Lamrock". Here I was thinking that your avatar was "The Shadow" and it was that nasty "Spider" person all along ! If I can convince anyone in my gaming group to play I will run a Pulp campaign as soon as I can get my hands on a copy of "Pulp Hero" after it comes out !

[KA.]

Well paint me green and call me "the hulk" "Lamrock". Here I was thinking that your avatar was "The Shadow" . . .

No, that would be me. :)

KA.

[Koshka]

Speaking of the Shadow, some public libraries have pretty good collections of old radio programs. It'd be worth a look to see if you can find some from the Shadow (especially the Orson Wells era).

If you have a CD burner for your computer, there's a couple groups that trade old radio programs. The one I'm part of is OTRDAYS, over at Yahoo Groups -- you've got to be willing to burn copies of the discs for other people, but when you can get 100 CD-Rs for 19.99 it's not that much of a monetary outlay.


But resist the urge to send for your complementary ton of Blue Coal (Pennsylvania's Finest Anthracite!).

You mean I can't get a set of Goodrich Safety Silvertowns With The Lifesaver Tread for my car?!?! :D

[Agent 13]

Then I suggest you get a good policy from the Equitable Life Insurance Society of America...

[st barbara]

Never mind "I want my MTV" or "I want my Foxtel" ! "St Barbara" wants her "Pulp Hero" ! Pretty please ! Otherwise buddy I got a fireball right here with YOUR name on it !

[Rover]

Hi All,

Hi Super Squirrel,


Last night we rented Sky Captain and the World of Tommorrow. I just sort of realized, how much I love the pulp genre.

You may want to check out Michael Moorcock's 'The Warlord of the Air'.


Regards,

Rover.

[st barbara]

To "Rover" While not normally a great fan of Moorcock I DID enjoy his "Warlord of The Air". "The Land Leviathan" would go well as background for a Pulp game as well.

[stu2000]

Maybe this is a duplicate, but Adventure House (301) 754-1589, www.adventurehouse.com, has a great pulp catalog, including The Compleat Adventures of Jules De Grandin, a 3 vol HB set. $250. (ouch--maybe I'll browse e-bay) Not the first occult detective, but the fiestiest, and the most French. Sacre blue!