Dragons on TV (#2)

[badger3k]

I posted this to the NGD as well, but just a reminder, Sunday the 20th, 8 eastern/ 7 central, Animal Planet (http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/dragons/dragons.html).

Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real.

I'll have my dvd burner ready for this one. Looks cool.

[tkdguy]

The bookmark has expired. Maybe this one will work:

http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/dragons/dragons.html

[badger3k]

The bookmark has expired. Maybe this one will work:

http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/dragons/dragons.html

Ok. That's odd. I just got that bookmark minutes before I posted. Thanks.

[badger3k]

Interesting, even though I need to watch it again (a couple of the comments sounded bizarre, even given the suspension of disbelief). I'd like to see the biology again. Even given the hydrogen sacks, the wings still look too fragile for the muscle mass needed (but then again, I say the same thing about birds, so who am I to judge). Other than that, I like the way they did them. Especially with the evolution into the water dragon then going back to a land-living creature.

[tkdguy]

Looking at the website last night, my best friends and I had this conversation. If dragons could be explained scientifically, what about elves and dwarves and orcs? Of course, we already know about previous hominids, so that's fairly easy. We just tried to figure out which branch would evolve into those races.

[Curufea]

We have dwarves already :)

Orcs could easily be Neanderthals.
Elves could easily be how Neanderthals viewed Homo Sapiens.

[keithcurtis]

I agree. The wings are far too small and the "hydrogen sacs" is just a huge handwave. For hydrogen to provide any kind of lift the sacs would have to be significanty larger than the dragon. It would look like a balloon.
That whole bit was just lifted from Peter Dickinson's "Flight of Dragons" anyway.

Keith "But the show did <i>look</i> cool" Curtis

[badger3k]

We have dwarves already :)

Orcs could easily be Neanderthals.
Elves could easily be how Neanderthals viewed Homo Sapiens.

Traditionally, elves and dwarves could be considered close/similar/the same - depending on the culture. The new-found Homo floresiensis can easily be conjectured to be the "little people" of many myths.

[tkdguy]

Traditionally, elves and dwarves could be considered close/similar/the same - depending on the culture. The new-found Homo floresiensis can easily be conjectured to be the "little people" of many myths.
Here's one way I can do this:

Let Flores Man be the elves of the world, while Neandertals are trolls. Dwarfs and giants are merely humans that are unusually small or large.

As for dragons, I'd base them on the Komodo Dragon, except with tougher scales. They wouldn't be able to fly. Likewise, they wouldn't breathe fire, but they'd spit out a hot liquid that burns flesh. They'd also be able to be more adaptable, so they can be found (although rarely) in colder climates.

[AlHazred]

In Michael Scott Rohan's Winter of the World (http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mike.scott.rohan/winter/winter_intro.htm) series, the dwarves are Neanderthals. They have an older culture than Homo sapiens sapiens, which has given them more time to advance technologically. Mind you, there's magic in the series, but it's a very toned-down, subtle variety. Due to the advance of the Ice Age, the dwarves constructed for themselves a wide-ranging kingdom in caverns and constructed shafts deep below the mountains. In other stories by other authors, the Neanderthals are the trolls. If you base it all on Scandinavian myths, then there's not much difference.

I would see trolls more as Gigantopithecus. I remember some speculation for a game, where I posited that Europe used to have it's share of sasquatches and yetis, and that they were the origin of troll/ogre/giant myths. Sadly, that one never got off the ground. But it would work, I tell you!

[tkdguy]

Definitely it would work. The problem is selling the idea to players who get freaked out when they veer away from cookie-cutter stereotypes.

[AlHazred]

Definitely it would work. The problem is selling the idea to players who get freaked out when they veer away from cookie-cutter stereotypes.
Then they are really in need of an out-of-the-box moment. The moment anyone becomes too complacent in their expectations is the moment when you have to shock them out of it. Challenge them. Otherwise their brains will begin getting smoother, and that's never a good thing. Makes them taste funny.

[tkdguy]

I can think of one group that may try it out, although one person doesn't care for fantasy genres. Other groups won't even touch it.

[AmadanNaBriona]

I may have to search around a bit, but this idea has been bantered about before. I really like the idea of doing a FH game in a Conan fashion using a bit of para science and cryptozoology in place of magic and monsters. Heres a thought I've had about the Neandertals... If they moved underground to avoid the ICe age and have subsequently evolved, isolated populations could easily account for the different underground races (Dwarves, Orcs, etc..) In addition... IIRC, Scandanavia is rich in rare earths and radioactive ores. Between background exposure increasing species mutation (Can you say Trolls?) and the possiblity that the "elder races" may have started incorporating some of these ores into their metalwork or crafts ("Wait...Excalibur was radioactive?") and you get all sort of neat options opening up. And I love the idea of cryptozoological monsters. Dragons as a living fossil species, like the colececanth (sp?), probably one of the crocodillians, with a venomous spit attack (like a spitting cobra) perhaps. Or even a regurgitation type "defence" ability (I serem to recall some other reptiles doing this...I don't know)

[tkdguy]

Here's one way I can do this:

Let Flores Man be the elves of the world, while Neandertals are trolls. Dwarfs and giants are merely humans that are unusually small or large.

As for dragons, I'd base them on the Komodo Dragon, except with tougher scales. They wouldn't be able to fly. Likewise, they wouldn't breathe fire, but they'd spit out a hot liquid that burns flesh. They'd also be able to be more adaptable, so they can be found (although rarely) in colder climates.
Quick follow-up: Instead of the traditional rpg terms (elves and trolls), let Flores Man = Pysk (from piskies/pixies) and Neanderthal = Trogs (from troglodytes).