Can I get a list please?

[Katherine]

Would anyone with long term experience on these boards give me a list of the Hot Topics that just turn sour? I want to avoid wandering stupidly into mindfeilds in the future.

[Deejmeister]

Pretty much the usual for any message boards: Religion, Politics, and House Rules.

Oh, and anything involving hot lesbian gamers! :D

[Katherine]

Yeah, just a bit of frustration boiling over combined with a too quick finger on the "Submit Post" Button. Its been a bad day at work.

[Deejmeister]

Feel free to vent...

[Blue]

"Flame sense" tingling! (Took it long enough)

We're off!...

[Katherine]

No more flames from me.

Nope.

*eye twitches*

No more.

*Hand spasms*

I'm fine. Really.

*grinds teeth*

:)

[Blue]

Aw, those weren't flames! Go to the NGD forum and post something about IRAQ.
All ya gots is a wee candle.

[TheEmerged]

In terms of the system?

"Kryptonite Man". I brought this one up once before because I thought it was an interesting theoretical question: should the Kryptonite Man have to pay points for the fact that he emits Green-K radiation, if the only thing this does is trigger Superman's limitations/disadvantages? If so, does Banana Man have to pay points to be immune to Green Lantern? I was amazed at how flammable the post turned, and how quickly.

"Linked Debate". Not a debate anymore -- 5th Edition finally answered it, although there are of course holdouts (I started out as one until I saw the restrictions in play). But this is the Grandaddy of hot topics, dead or otherwise.

"Damage Shield". I'm going to try and say this without being editorial. Probably the least popular change in 5th Edition (although not the worst, in my opinion -- making Suppress cumulative wins that one), at least for some people (myself included) this has a way of coming up anytime Mr. Long makes a ruling the individual disagrees with -- and I've been guilty of being that person more than once.

"Batman's DEX score". Some people say it's a 20 or 23 because of where 'Normal Characteristic Maxima' kicks in. Others say he is clearly depicted as someone with a borderline if-not-actually superhuman DEX and SPD and that's how he should be written up, and that "maximum unaltered human" thing is should be treated as just a line on his press release. My own writeup, for example, clocks him in at 30 DEX and 8 SPD and he doesn't have NCM.

"Equipment". I've seen a couple of discussions about paying points for equipment turn nasty. YMMV, naturally, as I've seen a few that didn't.

"Absolutes". HERO is a scaling system, and as such 'absolutes' like an attack that always hits or being totally immune to something simply don't function the way one demographic wants it to. That's a feature as far as I'm concerned, but mine is not the only opinion and some people feel very strongly about it.

[Katherine]

The first one intrigues me because my gut reaction is "No, don't be silly" but if I recall my comic book trivia. K Man should by a small, 1 pip Transform (Creature into Creature with Radiation Poisoning/cancer) with SCADS of extra time and Cumulative since Kryptonite does have a bad affect on Terrestrial creatures it just takes awhile. His Special effect would then affect Superman. Bannana Man? I have no idea.

[TheEmerged]

The first one intrigues me because my gut reaction is "No, don't be silly" but if I recall my comic book trivia. K Man should by a small, 1 pip Transform (Creature into Creature with Radiation Poisoning/cancer) with SCADS of extra time and Cumulative since Kryptonite does have a bad affect on Terrestrial creatures it just takes awhile. His Special effect would then affect Superman. Bannana Man? I have no idea.

I thought it was intriguing too, which is why it surprised me when it turned flammable.

BTW, obviously it should cost points if he glows enough to read by, is harder to hurt because he has the density of rock, or can hurt normals (and pre-Crisis, GK-radiation didn't hurt normals).

[Dust Raven]

Would anyone with long term experience on these boards give me a list of the Hot Topics that just turn sour? I want to avoid wandering stupidly into mindfeilds in the future.

It varies from board to board.

Here (Hero System Discussion), the hottest rules debates would be anything regarding balance issues relating to STR or CON, and occasionally bits about Damage Shield or DEX. Oddly enough, the hottest topics I've noticed lately have revolved around making stand-alone products (either for publication by DOJ or for free on someone's web site) or deciding what to rename some part of the rules.

In the Champions board: just about anything titled [character] vs. [character] get interesting real fast. I'm not as versed in comic book lore as anyone who would post to those threads, and tend not to care if one is better or not, so I avoid them.

I rarely visit anyplace else. Just about anything can go anywhere in the NGD, but you never can tell with that place. The best advice I can give you is to asume everything there is flamable by default. If you use HDv2, be polite to Simon and try not to come across as condescending or insulting, as he'll take it personally and rip your head off before he realises it ;)(he's not a people person, but he does know what he's doing).

Anything else you'll just to explore on your own.

[CourtFool]

I just do not take myself too seriously and poop...er...I mean post wherever I please.

[zornwil]

Elemental Controls and Damage Shield can get contentious.

[Hugh Neilson]

Any thread that accumulates more pages in new posts than hours you've been away from the Board is a good bet to be contentious.

[JmOz]

There is one other issue, and I am reluctant to bring it up as I am one of the few people who are constantly involved in it so keeping my bias out of it is hard. But it has to do with how a certain individual behaves on the boards and his connection with Hero Games. I really do not want to get it going here, but that is another topic that gets "hot" quickly...

[zornwil]

Katherine may have no clue, I'll just say it - Katherine, if you engage in discussions in regard to Hero Designer and Dan Simon annoys or angers you, and if you wish to discuss this publicly, it is a major hot button, and, yes, DOJ is well aware there are, let's say, varying opinions and contention around the manner. If you wish more info please PM me or otherwise if a public discussion I guarantee a flame-out as this thread goes on.

[prestidigitator]

.... Oh, and anything involving hot lesbian gamers! :D
Damn it! I have nothing left to talk about. ;)

[Supreme Serpent]

Hmmm...maybe the board software can scan posts for such things and include appropriate "magnifying glass" and "Stop" icons by the threads to warn folks. ;)

[lemming]

Hmmm...maybe the board software can scan posts for such things and include appropriate "magnifying glass" and "Stop" icons by the threads to warn folks. ;)
Maybe instead of Rate this thread we could vote for those icons.

[Constantine]

Come on! What fun are lists, or warning signs? Don'tcha just wanna stumble into the pain??? :)

[zornwil]

Come on! What fun are lists, or warning signs? Don'tcha just wanna stumble into the pain??? :)
Her post-fu is weak and she is finding her way. Begrudge not the shade shielding one from the sun! The foolish man ignores suntan lotion at his own peril! One day her post-fu will shield her as yours does you.

Now go and post more, o brave warrior unscathed by the flames of outrageous miscommunication.

[prestidigitator]

Her post-fu is weak and she is finding her way. Begrudge not the shade shielding one from the sun! The foolish man ignores suntan lotion at his own peril! One day her post-fu will shield her as yours does you.

Now go and post more, o brave warrior unscathed by the flames of outrageous miscommunication.
Soliloquy! Soliloquy! Woot! Honk!

[JmOz]

Oh wise lizard master, I would give you proper respect, so that your mighty reputation may grow, but alas I have done so too recently...

[BobGreenwade]

Pretty much the usual for any message boards: Religion, Politics, and House Rules. And pizza toppings... don't forget pizza toppings. ;)

[Vondy]

Flammable. An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning "combustible" is inflammable, but some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means "not combustible." For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline of explosives are now marked FLAMMABLE. Unless you are operating such a truck and are hence concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable.

Of course, on the boards, flammable may be the better choice.

[Blue]

Oooh, Burn!!!

Sorry

[Vondy]

As opposed to wandering intelligently into minefields?

1. Anything in the abyss of the non-gaming discussion boards, especially... no, best to avoid it altogether. Its the only way.
2. House rules.
3. Normal Characteristic Maxima. AKA my style of play is better than yours is.
4. So-and-So verus So-and-So.
5. Actually, don't log on. Its safest that way.

[Herolover]

You know, this post brings something up. How about a "Hot Topics" thread that could be stickied to the top of the forum. It would be like a FAQ thread of topics that are always coming up in the forums and that many people have very heated opinions on.

For example one of the topics that could be touched upon is the Damage shield debate and we could get a knowledgable person from each side to state his opinion.

As new "Hot Topics" come up or opinions about previous ones change the thread could be edited as needed.

[Constantine]

Her post-fu is weak and she is finding her way. Begrudge not the shade shielding one from the sun! The foolish man ignores suntan lotion at his own peril! One day her post-fu will shield her as yours does you.

Now go and post more, o brave warrior unscathed by the flames of outrageous miscommunication.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lemming]

You know, this post brings something up. How about a "Hot Topics" thread that could be stickied to the top of the forum. It would be like a FAQ thread of topics that are always coming up in the forums and that many people have very heated opinions on.

For example one of the topics that could be touched upon is the Damage shield debate and we could get a knowledgable person from each side to state his opinion.

As new "Hot Topics" come up or opinions about previous ones change the thread could be edited as needed.
Yea. But that's semi subjective and would put additional work on people who really could be doing something more productive.

[RDU Neil]

Whatever! Flame on!

[lemming]

Whatever! Flame on!
Actually I think your avatar fits perfectly with the theme. ;)

[zornwil]

Oh wise lizard master, I would give you proper respect, so that your mighty reputation may grow, but alas I have done so too recently...
I will benefit most if you go and post more, so I, too, may respond and thus post more. This way we will grow together. So go, be fruitful and post.

Heh, thanks for the thought!

[zornwil]

As opposed to wandering intelligently into minefields?

1. Anything in the abyss of the non-gaming discussion boards, especially... no, best to avoid it altogether. Its the only way.
2. House rules.
3. Normal Characteristic Maxima. AKA my style of play is better than yours is.
4. So-and-So verus So-and-So.
5. Actually, don't log on. Its safest that way.
Wait - re #3, are you saying that there is still disagreement, and not everyone has agreed that my way of playing is in fact better than all others?

WHY #@*%&*!!!!

Katherine, I can't believe you triggered this! I blame you even more than VDM!

(to be clear... :D )

[zornwil]

Yea. But that's semi subjective and would put additional work on people who really could be doing something more productive.
Yeah, and no offense, HeroLover, but I don't think it would really help anyway. Flame wars are most often due to people being simply unable to conduct themselves rationally. While perhaps such a sticky might prevent a few flames on a few topics, I think people would bust out in other ways. I don't think topics cause flame wars, I think people cause flame wars.

Also, frankly, I don't like the idea anyway of trying to limit new spins on these skeletal old dead horses, you never know when a newbie will come up with something amazing. Or even us old-timers...we've been kicking around HERO toolkit ideas for a LONG time and only recently have we come up with some interesting new takes on analyzing and executing the toolkit. So things do change!

[Dust Raven]

Wait - re #3, are you saying that there is still disagreement, and not everyone has agreed that my way of playing is in fact better than all others?

But, we did. We all said that your style was better...for you. And my style is better for me, because my style allows for this and that and the other thing that your style doesn't but whatever makes you happy man.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Mantis]

For example one of the topics that could be touched upon is the Damage shield debate and we could get a knowledgable person from each side to state his opinion.
I can see a flame-war starting over who, exactly, is a knowledgable person in the debate.

[CourtFool]

Stating your intelligent and obviously well-thought out opinion that D&D sucks always starts flame wars.

[Constantine]

Stating your intelligent and obviously well-thought out opinion that D&D sucks always starts flame wars.

Bad llama/troll! No biscuit!!! :)

[Hugh Neilson]

Perhaps we should put asking for a list of hot topics on the "probationary" list for hot topics? :nonp:

[zornwil]

Maybe we just need the list of safe topics, that should be pretty short...I think Energy Blast isn't controversial...no wait, the name incites some acrimony... :D

[Blue]

So right now in this forum there's a post about how STR is too wimpy because a guy swinging a +2D6 board is equivalent to 4 of the same guy attacking bare-handed (which is an amusing counter to the typical "STR costs to litlte for what you get" posts). Instead of the usual "How do I make my guy totally invulnerable" question that spawns responses about there being no absolutes, we've got a post with an advantage for hitting every time you attack. There's a post about how you should have to pay extra for what is essentially "collateral damage"... picking someone up and dropping them for damgae you should, I guess, pay for the cost of both lifting them AND dropping them. And there's at least two posts about paying for equipment with money v. paying for them with points.

We crack me up :). And I suppose that's why I keep coming back.

[Dust Raven]

Stating your intelligent and obviously well-thought out opinion that D&D sucks always starts flame wars.

Heh, so does stating your intellient and obviously well-thought out optinion that D&D rocks.

[prestidigitator]

So right now in this forum there's a post about how STR is too wimpy because a guy swinging a +2D6 board is equivalent to 4 of the same guy attacking bare-handed (which is an amusing counter to the typical "STR costs to litlte for what you get" posts). Instead of the usual "How do I make my guy totally invulnerable" question that spawns responses about there being no absolutes, we've got a post with an advantage for hitting every time you attack. There's a post about how you should have to pay extra for what is essentially "collateral damage"... picking someone up and dropping them for damgae you should, I guess, pay for the cost of both lifting them AND dropping them. And there's at least two posts about paying for equipment with money v. paying for them with points.

We crack me up :). And I suppose that's why I keep coming back.
:rofl: Go geekdom!

[TheEmerged]

RE: STR Lay that one at the feet of the bit about doubling one thing for 5 points while increasing a second thing linearly...

[CourtFool]

Heh, so does stating your intellient and obviously well-thought out optinion that D&D rocks.

You are wrong, you nazi! And I should know because I am a game developer. Welcome to my ignore list!

[Dust Raven]

You are wrong, you nazi! And I should know because I am a game developer. Welcome to my ignore list!

Just because all game developers are facists doesn't make them nazis...

...and what's an ignore list?

[Hugh Neilson]

You are wrong, you nazi! And I should know because I am a game developer.

So are the authors of D&D. :)

[zornwil]

So are the authors of D&D. :)
No, the authors of D&D are definitely not game developers!

:D

[prestidigitator]

No, the authors of D&D are definitely not game developers!

:D
Hah! Good one! :rofl:

[Dust Raven]

No, the authors of D&D are definitely not game developers!

:D

I hope your are referring to the WotC authors.... Gygax and company were definatly game developers... just not developers of good games.

:)

[zornwil]

I hope your are referring to the WotC authors.... Gygax and company were definatly game developers... just not developers of good games.

:)
It was just a joke anyway. :) I've heard a number of good things about it lately, actually and, besides, I really don't know enough to properly criticize anyway, at least not re the whole core system.

[Fox1]

It was just a joke anyway. :)

Obviously jokes should be on the list of things to avoid.

[TheEmerged]

RE: DnD Criticism. Goes back to my favorite joke -- the biggest problem with d20 is the d20 itself. Use 2d10 instead and it's not bad. It's still usually level-based (I've heard there's some decent levelless d20 stuff out there) and there are a host of other minor issues -- usually because there are some aspects that got grandfathered without adequate testing (like the idea of 9 spell levels). There are also a couple of aspects that *obviously* didn't get anything other than cursory testing (3.0 Psionic rules, especially psionic combat), and then were pointlessly defended and desperately shoehorned (insert the FSBNNR arguments on the DnDPsi boards...)

[Dr. Anomaly]

(insert the FSBNNR arguments on the DnDPsi boards...)FSBNNR?

[zornwil]

RE: DnD Criticism. Goes back to my favorite joke -- the biggest problem with d20 is the d20 itself. Use 2d10 instead and it's not bad. It's still usually level-based (I've heard there's some decent levelless d20 stuff out there) and there are a host of other minor issues -- usually because there are some aspects that got grandfathered without adequate testing (like the idea of 9 spell levels). There are also a couple of aspects that *obviously* didn't get anything other than cursory testing (3.0 Psionic rules, especially psionic combat), and then were pointlessly defended and desperately shoehorned (insert the FSBNNR arguments on the DnDPsi boards...)
Um, you know that grandfathering and improper testing for a few things is the same criticism that can be levelled at some aspects of HERO, right?

[TheEmerged]

FSBNNR = Feats Should Be Nice Not Required. During 3.0, WotC's reaction to the (sometimes glaring) flaws with the psionic rules was to create feats -- feats that in a couple of cases were effectively required by any psion. They were effectively requiring you to either take certain feats or accept a hole in the rules -- so naturally the result was that everyone that was serious about the psionic rules basically created their own psionic house rules, and as a result it wasn't long before we could barely hold a conversation on the boards without diverging into discussing them.

RE: Grandfathering and HERO. Um, I've made that very argument, more than once. In particular about figured attributes. I understand why the decision to grandfather this was made, I just feel that was the poorer decision.

RE: Insufficient testing. This one I've got to disagree with, after making the caveat that I've adopted a policy of basically ignoring Steve's question board. I haven't seen *anything* from HERO/DoJ that can compare to the bad joke that was 3.0 Psionic Combat rules. Which isn't to say there aren't some things I disagree with, sometimes strongly -- making Suppress cumulative and the Damage Shield requirement of Continuous come to mind -- but rather that there isn't the total disconnect from the realities of gameplay that I've run into with some parts of 3.0

And I specify 3.0 because I've done little more than glance at 3.5, except for the 3.5Psi

[Dr. Anomaly]

FSBNNR = Feats Should Be Nice Not Required. During 3.0, WotC's reaction to the (sometimes glaring) flaws with the psionic rules was to create feats -- feats that in a couple of cases were effectively required by any psion.
Thanks. ;)

[zornwil]

FSBNNR = Feats Should Be Nice Not Required. During 3.0, WotC's reaction to the (sometimes glaring) flaws with the psionic rules was to create feats -- feats that in a couple of cases were effectively required by any psion. They were effectively requiring you to either take certain feats or accept a hole in the rules -- so naturally the result was that everyone that was serious about the psionic rules basically created their own psionic house rules, and as a result it wasn't long before we could barely hold a conversation on the boards without diverging into discussing them.

RE: Grandfathering and HERO. Um, I've made that very argument, more than once. In particular about figured attributes. I understand why the decision to grandfather this was made, I just feel that was the poorer decision.

RE: Insufficient testing. This one I've got to disagree with, after making the caveat that I've adopted a policy of basically ignoring Steve's question board. I haven't seen *anything* from HERO/DoJ that can compare to the bad joke that was 3.0 Psionic Combat rules. Which isn't to say there aren't some things I disagree with, sometimes strongly -- making Suppress cumulative and the Damage Shield requirement of Continuous come to mind -- but rather that there isn't the total disconnect from the realities of gameplay that I've run into with some parts of 3.0

And I specify 3.0 because I've done little more than glance at 3.5, except for the 3.5Psi
From what I heard 3.5 fixed the psionic issues. But that's only what I heard.

[Vondy]

From what I heard 3.5 fixed the psionic issues. But that's only what I heard.

Are you trying to tell us you aren't clairvoyant?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Are you trying to tell us you aren't clairvoyant?
I knew you were going to say that. :)

[zornwil]

I can neither confirm nor deny - same answer to your next question, too.

[TheEmerged]

RE: 3.5 DnD Psionic Tangent. Depends on your definition of "fixed". They "fixed" psionic combat by effectively eliminating it (technically they made the combat modes powers). They "fixed" the fact that many of the feats were of wildly different usefulness by creating a new complication (the "focus"). They "fixed" the fact that psions didn't measure up to wizards or sorcerors by effectively requiring everyone to rewrite all their characters.

They fixed -- no scare quotes -- the power redundancy problem by doing what many of us on the psionic board clamored for, by replacing the absurd "power chain" mechanic with the mechanic used for Call Weaponry in 3.0 (insert crack about how they had the right mechanic in 3.0 and didn't use it).