PULP HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

All right, it's that time again -- time to give us your thoughts on our upcoming RPG opus! We'd like to get your input on what you want to see in Pulp Hero.

Before you comment, PLEASE READ THE OUTLINE AND DESCRIPTION I'VE POSTED BELOW. Every time I do one of these posts, I get a lot of suggestions for things that I've already explicitly stated are going to be in the book. Please, save yourself some time by checking out the description first. ;)

Along the same lines, please limit your comments to textual content only. I don't want to talk about art at this time; we'll get to that later if necessary.

Please also keep in mind that I don't have time to do immense amounts of research on every conceivable pulp-related topic. I'm fast and skilled, but there are limits to what I can accomplish, so asking for more-more-more isn't helpful or productive. This is going to be the best, most thorough gaming book for the pulp genre ever published, but even at that there's only so much I can do. So yes, I'll be telling you something about what London's like in the pulp era... but I won't be giving you in-depth details or street maps. Those will simply have to wait for supplements. ;)

So, with all that aside, here's a short outline of what I think the book's going to look like as of today:

Chapter 1 -- The Genre: similar to the first chapters in our other genre books. It will discuss the history of the pulps (briefly), what the "pulp genre" is, the various subgenres (crimebusting, weird menace, air adventure, etc.), pulp and metagenres/other genres, important elements of the genre, and so on.

Chapter 2 -- History of the Pulp Era: This is mostly a big-ass timeline arranged in columns by topic (War & Politics, Science & Technology, and so on). It will also have sections discussing important organizations, people, daily life, travel, and so on (unless I decide to move that stuff to Chap. 3).

Chapter 3 -- The World of the Pulp Era: You, too, can learn what the Transjordan and French Equatorial Africa are. It's a fine and glorious world where women are women, men wear hats, vast chunks of the world remain essentially unexplored by Westerners, and adventure lurks around every corner! Expect copious sidebars with nuggets of useful information.

Chapter 4 -- Pulp Character Creation: A big honkin' pile of Package Deals, discussion of how various game elements work in PH (e.g., how to change technology-oriented Skills to reflect the tech of the times; what the standards for Money are in the pulp era), a bunch of nifty pulp abilities/super-skills/whatever I call 'em, and so on.

Chapter 5 -- Pulp Equipment: Weapons, vehicles, weird science gadgetry, price lists, and so on, along with discussion of the tech standards of the era, what's common/rare/yet to be invented, etc.

Chapter 7 -- Pulp GMing: Similar to our other GMing chapters. Will probably include some sort of rules for "dramatic editing" and suchlike. Part of this chapter is being written by SJohn Ross, whose excellent work I'm sure many of you are familiar with.

Chapter 8 -- Sample Characters: Randall Irons, Hamilton Cross, and their friends... as well as a few sample adversaries.

And of course there'll be a big ol' Bibliography and Filmography at the end. (I've started another thread on this topic, if you're interested.)

So, with all that in mind -- what would you like to see in the book?

[Tim]

A bit about the differences and similarities between the Pulps and Low level supers. (The Shadow is a pulp hero not a super)

[Starwolf]

1) Orgaizations in the pulp era like organized crime groups, law enforcement groups, bad guy gangs/clubs, gentlemens/adventurers clubs, etc.

2) Maps approriate to the era along with geographic/political nuggets of info.

3) A primer on the lingo/jargon of the time.

4) Oh yeah and did I mention MAPS. :yes:

[specks]

Perhaps a detailed look into the Yengtao Temple as well as the martial art training (which include super abilities and stunts) for the PCs. It would be nice if it were included in Chapter 3.

How about some deathtraps for the PCs to encounter and tackle.

A set of rules and mechanics to run a pulplike setting (to be included in Chapter 7).

[Lord Liaden]

3) A primer on the lingo/jargon of the time.

Strongly agree with this. The pulp-era slang dictionary from Justice Inc. was wonderful for adding period color to character interactions. I know of a couple of good online sources for this sort of thing, in addition to JI.

For the weapon listings in the book, it would be enormously helpful if you could include a brief text description of the appearance of each firearm, in addition to the game stats. (Illustrations would be even better, but I'd understand if that was impractical.) A few notes on the background origin and use of the gun would also help. This kind of thing adds a lot to descriptions of the visuals of a scene in-game, especially for period weapons that are harder to look up info about.

[Steve Long]

Trust me, folx, there'll be a generous selection of lingo and slang. ;)

Sorry, LL, but textual descriptions of guns is generally something I regard as a waste of space in time in a project already cramped on both. ;) I'll include as many illos as I can, believe me, but that's the best I can do.

[Old Man]

Dare I suggest--a sample adventure? One that includes a lot of globetrotting, as opposed to being a dungeon crawl with more guns and less armor?

Illustrate everything--equipment, characters, jungles, The Forgotten Temple of the White Ape.

Might want to touch on voodoo, hypnotism, poisons, and other low-level magic.

Quit using cookie-cutter layouts. Give Pulp Hero an interior layout that looks like Pulp Hero and not like Champions. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

[Sketchpad]

Lingo would be quite cool :) I wouldn't mind seeing some expanded rules for the Inventor skill during the period ... maybe even some sample "weird science" gadgets :D Any chance that we could have a few clubs briefly detailed in the book? I'd also like to throw my chips in for maps ;)

[Super Squirrel]

For your resources section, I recommending including the site: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

My friend Ted gave that me two nights ago. It is really useful for getting a feel for the currency value for the different time periods one might play in.


For the Pulp Character Creation, I really think some time needs to be spent on Contacts. Contacts are, IMHO, one of the most important elements of Pulp. I've already set the character creation guideline for my campaign that at least 30 points must be spent on contacts.

Along that lines, I think both the GM section and the Character Creation section could use some emphasis on Hunteds. I noticed this when I was reading the Lost World. The group has three people assisting them until they get to the actual Lost World when one of the assistances reveals himself to be a vengeful enemy of one of the characters. I don't know what to call it, maybe the "Oh yeah! I remember him!" Hunted. No matter how many "Oh yeah! I remember him!" Hunteds you dispatch and defeat, you always will encounter others. It would also be nice to have a GM section on ways to bring this up.

Information on the structure of a Pulp trap would be nice. (e.g. Indiana Jones tosses up the relic to his assistant and asks him to toss him down the rope. The rope is tossed down, but still coiled. Then the assistant closes off the exit leaving him to his impending doom.)

Pulp poisons, from my experience are also more lethal than normal and convieniently based on verbal triggers instead of delayed onset.

Okay, that's a good start for me. I'm going to let someone else post what they would like to see now. :D

[BishopofB&W]

Suggestions on how to deal with the unfortunate realities of race relations in the period. For example, WW's Adventure! pointed out that if you have a black man and a white woman as PCs and they are traveling cross-country together, they're going to get hassled. People assumed that The Avenger's mechanical engineer was just dumb muscle, but how do you get the guy some respect if you don't want to play him that way?

Lots of Mcguffins. What do you call your valuable artifact when the Maltese Falcon name is already taken? What were common names for people, places, and things back then, meaning how do you take something from now and fix it in the pulp style?

[BishopofB&W]

Trust me, folx, there'll be a generous selection of lingo and slang. ;)

Sorry, LL, but textual descriptions of guns is generally something I regard as a waste of space in time in a project already cramped on both. ;) I'll include as many illos as I can, believe me, but that's the best I can do.

Just give me names, general stats, and a few illos, please. :)

[starblaze]

This is just an aside, maybe just one page, but how about a conversion page in case we want to convert characters and/or adventure from other game systems? Call of Cthulu comes to mind as well as Adventure! and Daredevils.

[Tim]

I'd like to see
A write-up of your average Mob Thug
A write-up of your average Nazi soldier of the 30s.
A write-up of the standard cutist.

[TheQuestionMan]

Key points on the differences between Pulp and Other Genres.

At least 5 different Sub Genres Adventures, but all within the Pulp Genre. Make sure the Writting style fits the Genre. Creating that feeling of authenticity.

The differences between Pulp and Noir.

I really really like the work you folks have done so far and look foreward to buying your quality products in the future.

Chow

QM

[Barton]

I'd like to see
A write-up of your average Mob Thug
A write-up of your average Nazi soldier of the 30s.
A write-up of the standard cutist.

I second this, and add Italian soldier, British soldier from the 1930's also.

Steve Long: I already have a write up of the Italian solider/officer if you are interested?

[Starwolf]

Evil Cults and samples of Artifacts as plot hooks like the Spear of Destiny, the Philosophers Stone, Arc of the Covenant, Holy Grail, etc...

OOH OH and Lost Cities.

And have I mentioned MAPS :)

[Lamrok]

I think the most important thing a book like this could cover would be the various forms of travel avalable. In a typical globe-travelling pulp game, the players spend a lot of time lookiung for airplane rides, riding in zepplins, and being cooped up on luxury liners. All of these factors are great adventure opportunities.

It would be nice to have a sidebar on the state of zepplin travel at the time, on what it would be like to travel aboard a zepplin, and any special things a GM should consider when setting an advanture there.

A section on appropriate airplanes of the time almost goes without mentioning. Some of the larger planes of the time were slow-moving behemoths that make for excellent opportunites to scramble out on to the wing in order to do mid-flight repairs.

Many groups will likely spend some amount of time cooped up on passenger liners, and these make truely excellent places to set adventures. Some discussion of the limitations of communications with shore and about typical resources found aboard such ships would be nice.

It would be very good to see a detailed table with travel times to major cities of the world based on mode of travel. It would be even better to discuss how exceptionally skilled characters might alter these.

I like the inclusion of Tech differences. I think the biggest, most unfamiliar difference to modern players is the way telephones worked (operators, switchboards, having to wait to have calls "put through" etc.) A sidebar about telegraphs (and perhaps telegraph codes) might also be nice.

[Agemegos]

As always, technology is very important to genre, and the four aspects of technology that impinge most on the progress of RPG adventures are personal weapons, personal armour, transportation, and communications. I'm sure you will cover weapons and armour as always. I'd just like to suggest that it might be worth half a page or even a page to explain to the folk of this age of jet planes and cell phones how different the world was in the '20s and '30s, and how different adventures where when:

* cars, and especially fast cars, were rare, so 'most everyone travelled by scheduled transport;

* telephones were rare and fixed, so people were usually out of touch, especially if they were doing anything out of the way;

* low telephonic fidelity made it easy to impersonate someone on the phone, and a wide reliance on leaving messages at home or the office, or on sending cables or telegrams made it very easy to forge a message;

* telephone and telegraph cables could easily be cut and spliced to cut off a house or outpost, or to send a false signal;

* Morse code was in wide use for long-distance radio and telegraph signals.

[Agemegos]

I'd like to add that one of the things I used to love about Justice, Inc was the rules for weapon size and carry affecting concealment. I said before that I wanted them back, and you said to remind you when you were doing Pulp HERO. You're doing Pulp HERO, so I'm reminding you.

[Agemegos]

By the way, I am suddenly reminded that it is an outrage that anyone on these boards should have more rep than Steve Long. I've done my bit for today. I suggest that on the occasion of Pulp HERO being adumbrated it behoves anyone else who loves pulp adventuring to make a similar gesture of appreciation and esteem.

We don't get to vote with our wallets until the book comes out.

[Super Squirrel]

I'm going to second Starwolf and say that it would be nice to see a write-up of a Mcguffin Artifact such as the Holy Grail.

Hmm, is there such a thing as a Femme Fatal Martial Art?

[Lamrok]

Suggestions on how to deal with the unfortunate realities of race relations in the period. For example, WW's Adventure! pointed out that if you have a black man and a white woman as PCs and they are traveling cross-country together, they're going to get hassled. People assumed that The Avenger's mechanical engineer was just dumb muscle, but how do you get the guy some respect if you don't want to play him that way?


I agree that some attention should be paid to ways of dealing with the issues of racism, sexism, and xenophobia. Things in the pulp era were a lot different than they are today, and you can approach it in different ways, whether fighting against it, acting purposely anachronistic, or in bowlderizing the past to make it a bit more acceptable to modern players. This is a potentially ugly issue for anyone who wants to use a lot of original sources, and I think it would be nice if the book could deal with it in a classy way.

[Super Squirrel]

It could just be covered under Social Limitations.

[Old Man]

Well, it should also be optional. Pulp is supposed to be heroic and fictional; I don't know if including real-life hot button topics like racism is absolutely necessary. Now, if you have an evil proto-Nazi mad scientist type who's developing a private army of ape-men, that's something else entirely.

[FenrisUlf]

Under sample villains, will we get to see a Fiendish Oriental mastermind like Doctor Yin Wu? (A lower-powered version of him would fit in perfectly, I think; and the Champs Universe /did/ have a 'Pulp Age'.)

Some ideas on how to handle high-powered Pulp characters/low-powered 'supers' like the Spider and Doc Savage would also be nice.

I am eagerly awaiting this book!

[Koshka]

I'm not sure which section it would fit best in, but some examples for the players on how different the economy was would probably help. The bit in Justice Inc. on converting modern currency to pulp currency (divide by 10) was handy, but didn't give a solid feel for what the cost of living was. For instance, my grandparents got engaged during the Depression -- Grandpa had just gotten a raise at his job, and he and Grandma decided if they watched their budget, they could afford to start a life together. His raise was to $18 a week.

One more vote for a section on racism/sexism and how to deal with them. Though some of the pulp heroes were open-minded -- I recall The Shadow always speaking in Chinese to one of his Chinatown contacts out of courtesy, even though the person in question spoke fluent English.

Of course, the main thing I want in my copy of Pulp Hero is an autograph -- don't sell out at GenCon till I get to the booth :D .

[The Owl]

Some notes and stats on car choices other that the Model T would be nice. Especially some cars of very period makes, like Stutz and Pierce Arrow.

[specks]

Something else I'd like to see is the use of "cinema points". Maybe a trade of experience points to do some life saving stunt, aid to help a skill, do a critical hit or task to help others.

You may want to look at some back issues of Haymaker for the use of the cinema rules.

Thanks Dave :thumbup:

[specks]

Also another vote for the expansion on the gadget rules and sample artifacts.

[Steve Long]

how about a conversion page

Sorry, but no way. We have no rights to do any such conversions.


I'd like to add that one of the things I used to love about Justice, Inc was the rules for weapon size and carry affecting concealment. I said before that I wanted them back, and you said to remind you when you were doing Pulp HERO.

I'm sorry, but I don't recall the conversation. In what way are the concealed objects rules in 5E/5ER insufficient?

[OddHat]

Clear examples of Pulp Supers, including homages to Gladiator, The Spider, Doc Savage, The Shadow, and G-8.

A section (or more) on alternate pulp settings, including Pulp Space Opera (from Barsoom to the Lensman books) and Victorian Fantastique (at least until we get Victorian Hero).

[Greatwyrm]

I'd like to see a few maps of the world during the pulp era. Countries had a way of being renamed or changing hands quickly or may not exist today.

Some examples of travel times would be neat. Like a table of average trip times between large cities by air travel available at the time or steamship or rail.

[Super Squirrel]

We need a random country name generator for those areas between Western Europe and China. :D

[00Machado]

Clear examples of Pulp Supers, including homages to Gladiator, The Spider, Doc Savage, The Shadow, and G-8.

A section (or more) on alternate pulp settings, including Pulp Space Opera (from Barsoom to the Lensman books) and Victorian Fantastique (at least until we get Victorian Hero).

Yes to the Victorian thing. I second the nomination. Though it may not fit the genre, I would find it a selling point, not a detraction.

[00Machado]

Some other ideas on what I'd like to see:
maps
travel times, costs, and even likelihood of delays and transit being delayed and/or suddenly canceled between areas, by vehicle type.

Prices and availability of goods and common leisure activities.

Tying your pulp heroes game to later Champions games, and vice verse. Kind of like, prequeling, or building sequels to, the other game, and also evolving heroes to fit in the supers genre over time. Didn't batman start around the pulp days?

Adventure ideas

Ways to deal with getting the mcguffin out of your players hands over and over again. I suppose how to build the logic into the campaign, such as "it belongs in a museum", or the government takes it away, or something, so that if you want the Indiana Jones feel, there aren't a bunch of mystic powered artifacts in the hands of players after a few adventures.

The criminal world. Art and antiquity theft and smuggling, tomb looting, underground auctions or "acquisitions", etc. How did the economy for all this stuff work, perhaps jazzed up for readability and playability of necessary. And corresponding law enforcement actions/info.

Neat-o sites around the world to use as set pieces in your adventures. By name, not so much maps. I'll look up nice glossy pictures in the library for reference.

Some elements of the scary pulp stories. Integrating horror. I don't mean HP Lovecraft so much as I mean if they had made Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom into a frightening movie, instead of a movie with scary trappings.

Bridging classic pulp bits into present day, and adapting them for the modern genre, i.e Michael Crichton's Congo (novel not film), Tomb Raider, and things of that nature.

Advice on pacing in the GM section. How to keep things moving at a brisk pace while at the gaming table without rushing the players through things too quickly, and giving breathers to allow for a build up to higher tension later, both in general, and specific to all the hero system game mechanics that both help and hinder the goal of pacing toward a cliff hanger ending

I'd like illustrtaions art to show representative fashions of the time. Costumed Hero, People dressed up to go out, dressed casually, on expedition, military uniforms, some non western types of dress, etc. A good smattering of pictures to show.

Info on the sensibilities of the time that we don't have today. How they were more conservative in some areas, less conservative in others, and social issues that we care about today, but which they didn't then, or vice versa.

A sidebar or small amount of info on the real archaeology of the time, instead of the fictionalized, so you could use it to run a more grounded in the realistic "feel" treasure hunt adventure.

Not only when technology was invented, but when was it realistically available, and where.

What was it like growing up in that day and age, especially from the point of view of coming to an adventuring aged adult in "prime pulp era"

A totally eye catching cover illustration that looks like the cover of some "astounding tales" short story compilation, instead of a comic book like cover. I'm thinking along the likes of Alex Ross painting, and other that I can't quite articulate right now.

Any notes on major geographical features that were different. Golden Gate bridge wasn't built until when? What did they use before it? Ferries? The sunset area in San Francisco was beach and sand dunes (too bad it's not still, it sounds neet the way grandma describes it). I know those are bay area specific, but they illustrate the idea.

New Orleans? Hey why not, it's a neat-o place.

I like the idea someone mentioned about the "oh yeah, i remember him villain"

Different world outlooks people might have based on where they come from.
How are an American and a Brit different?
What will a Chinese person (either from US/UK, or from China), think of them?
You can go on and on with a list of countries.

Tropical diseases. Rules for catching some, curing some, and maybe some cultist spells for inflicitng some.

Maps of places where the action might happen...
planes, boats, and trains, museums, cultist lairs, tombs, lots of stuff like that.

Maybe a rule mechanic for how early in an adventure the villains are hard to beat, and as the heroes persist, they have a greater chance of successding.

All I can think of right now.

[OddHat]

Yes to the Victorian thing. I second the nomination. Though it may not fit the genre, I would find it a selling point, not a detraction.

Allan Moore's interview in Heroes & Monsters (Nevins, 2003) sold me on the idea that Victorian Fantastic literature was the cradle of the pulps. Quatermaine, Nemo, Hyde, Griffin; none of them were (imo) true pulp characters, but they did lay the groundwork for what was to come. Pulp Hero would be a great place to give at least a teaser on how to build fantastic adventures in that period. :)

[teh bunneh]

Chapter 1 -- The Genre: similar to the first chapters in our other genre books. It will discuss the history of the pulps (briefly), what the "pulp genre" is, the various subgenres (crimebusting, weird menace, air adventure, etc.), pulp and metagenres/other genres, important elements of the genre, and so on.

I'd love to see some discussion of the Crime/Noir subgenre -- the stories of Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Mickey Spillane, Jim Thompson, and their ilk, and Bogart's Sam Spade and Frank McCloud movies (also flicks like Chinatown and The Road to Perdition). You know, dark, gritty stories featuring men of gray (frequently questionable) motives, where frequently the only thing separating the good guys from the bad guys is a murky code of honor, where violence is a means of communication, where a man is a man and a dame is a killer.

The famous line from The Maltese Falcon sums up the Noir subgenre for me: "When a man's partner is killed, he's supposed to do something about it. It doesn't matter what you thought of him, he was your partner and you're supposed to do something about it. And it happens we're in the detective business. Well, when one of your organization gets killed, it's bad business to let the killer get away with it; bad all around. Bad for every detective everywhere."

But then, you knew I'm biased toward Noir. ;)

Bill.

[David Blue]

You badly need a page at least of foreign names (preferably period names) for some typical exotic regions, sorted at least by sex, and ideally with a couple singled out as suitable for very high-class people like princesses. It's no good if whether your Zeppelin touches down in Trebizond or your autogyro lands in the Congo, everyone is called [the gamemaster holds up his hands and says] - "I'm sorry, I don't know any good native names. He's Fred, she's Ethel, OK?"


Please be sure to include the Webley-Fosbury zig-zag "automatic revolver" in any guns list. I hope the automatic pistol that shot wooden bullets will feature too. Player characters who hunt vampires (or worse, are hunted by them) instantly fall in love with it when they find out about that one.

You should also mention the problem with guns: there are many marvellous designs, but they mostly use oddball ammunition (the wooden bullets are an extreme example) so you either accept great difficulties with supply, or go to standard weapons, or go to multi-calibre weapons. But still, for any pulp hero who wants a gun that's a bit different, like the Nambu broadsword/automatic pistol combination, the answer is a big "Yes!" (Naturally villains also have such things, depending on their class and individuality.)

And if you want a really deadly weapon - the hat-pin! (needs stats - one line) I think that should be useable with:
Super Squirrel. "Hmm, is there such a thing as a Femme Fatal Martial Art?"
Considering the frequency with which appallingly expert knee lifts are applied, I think that would be something like "Even Dirtier Infighting".


Pulp animals - not just the classic spiders-'n-snakes, but for example, a sinister pet monkey, a sardonic camel that seems to know how much trouble he's causing (and relish it), wolves (shadowing an injured hero lost in the wilds) that seem not just crafty but advanced students of Sun Tsu, or a parrot with eidetic memory and superb timing in repeating its instantly memorised speeches* - are all highly suitable for pulp gaming. At least mention this, and ideally have a sinister pet host a few appropriate side-bars.

* ("Awk! Put down the gun, …. Awk! Put down the gun …"
"Dash it! There was a pause there. Twice. Put down the gun - who?"
"Awk! Polly wants a cracker!"
Pulp animals can go from very sinister indeed to pure comic relief.)

(Monkey reminds me - there'll need to be advice on the frequent use of poisons and exotic drugs.)

Are you going to do great white hunters and the endless (it seemed at the time) war on man-eaters (eg. The Ghost and the Darkness), evil witch-doctors and the like? If so, I think the gamemaster new to this needs a little advice. Sustaining the tension in a man-eater scenario calls for a repertoire of tricks - but not one too many. A leopard with a three-figure kill-list is unlikely to stun the hero, bind him, explain the master plan, put the hero in a death-trap (another common use for animals, especially enraged apes for some reason I've never understood), and then in effect give him another chance; so one bad call or bad roll can be - bad.


Seconding Old Man: make the interior look more like Justice Inc. than stock Champions. Art Nouveau and/or Art Deco - is it really possible to overdo these great styles? (Though I admit it is all too possible to mix them disastrously. Maybe just one or the other.)


I think you need to underline the extreme gaps in class you get between pulp villains - mere thugs, then soldiers, crooked masterminds and evil peers, leading up to the Celestial One himself. Your definitions of what kind of success the heroes should be rewarded for and encouraged to feel good about can very drastically depending on the class of villain in play.

Tim, man in black asked:
"I'd like to see
A write-up of your average Mob Thug
A write-up of your average Nazi soldier of the 30s.
A write-up of the standard cultist."

Smart.

I think an important thing to specify briefly is: what would they typically be found carrying after you knock one out? For cultists, after the obvious wallet, handkerchief and keys, the list might start with candles, a lighter and a knife - all good things for player characters to suddenly be in possession of.

And Tong goons - basic thugs, or up to alarmingly advanced martial artists and gang leaders.

Also, don't just give typical villain toughness, underline typical weaknesses that the heroes should be encouraged to use to their advantage. Nazis worship documentation and authority figures. (Professor Jones, in a zeppelin: "No ticket!")


Will you be touching on related stuff? How badly out of scope is Lara Croft, Tomb Raider, or Shang Chi in his long war against his father? I'm thinking you should at least mention that the octopus of Pulp style has many tentacles reaching into different eras.

If you had said just before The Mummy (with Arnold Vosloo as Imhotep) that there was no such thing as pulp romance/horror/comedy adventure you would have been right - but suddenly there it all was in one package, working harmoniously. You don't want to set the bounds of the possible too narrowly in pulps.

[Starwolf]

Maybe a page or sidebar about Vibora Bay and Hudson City in the pulp era. I'd say Millenium City but as wew all know that was Detroit back then....

[Sociotard]

Since there may be a lot of globetrotting, I might like a currency conversions sidebar. Or would that be a waste of time?

An essential for globe trotting is a basic transportation map. Show the main shipping lanes, air routes, railroads, and so forth. or some way for GM's to figure out how long it takes to get from New York to Timbuktu (Lets see, thats a plane ride to London, followed by a smaller plane to the Ivory Coast, take a railroad inland for a while, and then you have to find a guide and start walking . . . )

Expanded Language table. Include all those rare african languages and so forth. Oh yeah . . .

[Sociotard]

Oh! Under the Subtitle "White mans graveyard", include descriptions and writeups for malaria, dengue (sp?) and other crazy tropical diseases.

[Dr. Anomaly]

There were some "standard" areas where a lot of pulp adventures took place, so at the very least a list of the type of pulp adventures that took place in those areas. For example: Africa, South America, The Orient, The South Pacific. Those were all areas where a lot of pulp adventures took place, but the type usually varied with the location. You might go hunting for a dinosaur in Africa, but a Yeti in the mountains of the Orient.

Some sample "pulp locations" would be good: a speakeasy, an opium den, a European wayhouse, that sort of thing.

For the South Pacific, one wierd thing that makes a good pulp hook is a Cargo Cult involvement. Though the various Cargo Cults only hit their biggest period during World War II, the earliest versions of them started appearing in the late 1880s, so they're certainly in period.

If you're going to include various period cars, you must include my favorite, the Stutz Bearcat! :)

Something many people tend to forget is that though pulp heroes are heroes -- fighting evil masterminds, rescuing the girl, and so on -- very often these "heroes" committed crimes for a living, or as a matter of course. A great many pulp heroes regularly engaged in smuggling, trafficing in stolen artifacts, and the like. For some reason, this wasn't seen as "bad" when a pulp hero did them. A few guidelines about this, and how to GM it in a pulp campaign, may be helpful.

[David Blue]

PS: Will you have advice for air combat with unusual aircraft and pterosaurs, particularly as to employing the latter with Vickers medium machine-guns?

I believe I've seen that a couple of times. It certainly blew me away the first time I saw it.

Also, I remembered "the famous Pat Pike, the two-fisted archaeologist, adventurer ... grave robber" who adventured with the (very) super-powered Doctor Dare in her Penthouse Comix pornography/comedy/Golden Age Nazi-busting series "Doctor Dare and the Spear of Destiny", and his dog who wore a black eye-patch and played solitaire (on long plane flights) by turning the cards over with his tongue, "... and checkers, but he always beat me, so I stopped playing," his owner admitted.

Many genres can be mixed with success, and "over the top" can mean "over the top" with a vengeance!

[Lamrok]

You badly need a page at least of foreign names (preferably period names) for some typical exotic regions, sorted at least by sex, and ideally with a couple singled out as suitable for very high-class people like princesses. It's no good if whether your Zeppelin touches down in Trebizond or your autogyro lands in the Congo, everyone is called [the gamemaster holds up his hands and says] - "I'm sorry, I don't know any good native names. He's Fred, she's Ethel, OK?"

I'll second this. These kinds of lists would save a lot of GM prep time.

[BobGreenwade]

There are a handful of things I can think of, without reading all the way through this thread:

1) What's going on in Atlantis, Lemuria, and other places in the Hidden Lands during this period of the Hero Universe? Yes, I'm sure these are at least touched on on Hidden Lands, but such things are staples of pulp fiction (that's where superhero comics got them from) and so belong here.

2) Touch on "neo-pulp" adventures, such as Indiana Jones, TV's Relic Hunter, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and the like.

3) Mention where pulp adventures can push their way into closely resembling superhero adventures, such as with the Shadow, the Green Hornet, the LXG, and so forth.

4) This may go without saying, but be sure to include at least an honorable mention of pulp sci-fi, including H. G. Wells, Jules Verne, and other visionaries as well as the "cheesy sci-fi" of the 1950s.

That's it for the time being....

[Agemegos]

I'm sorry, but I don't recall the conversation. In what way are the concealed objects rules in 5E/5ER insufficient?

In Justice Inc the SIZ of pistols ranged from 0 (for a Kolibri auto) to (IIRC) 5 or 6 for a Peacemaker. That gave much finer resolution than the "Pistol +2 to +3" in 5th ed. There was also a substantial reason to carry a Beretta .25 (SIZ 1) or a Walther PPK (SIZ 2) rather than a Colt M1911 (SIZ 4).

These days, with SIZ not included on the weapons table, and with precious little difference between the largest and the smallest pistols, all players seem to choose weapons on the basis of combat effectiveness alone, and carry big military pistols.

[FenrisUlf]

Are you going to do great white hunters and the endless (it seemed at the time) war on man-eaters (eg. The Ghost and the Darkness), evil witch-doctors and the like? If so, I think the gamemaster new to this needs a little advice. Sustaining the tension in a man-eater scenario calls for a repertoire of tricks - but not one too many. A leopard with a three-figure kill-list is unlikely to stun the hero, bind him, explain the master plan, put the hero in a death-trap (another common use for animals, especially enraged apes for some reason I've never understood), and then in effect give him another chance; so one bad call or bad roll can be - bad.

I don't know if this is an option for everyone, but reading any of Jim Corbett's amazing books would giove you tons of ideas for the 'Great White Hunter'. Corbett was a British official in India in the first half of the 20th century, and he hunted down quite a few nastily clever man-eaters (his book on the leopard of Rudraprayang is creepier than a dozen horror novels -- no animal should be that smart, especially when you're on its menu!) and wrote quite a bit on life in India for both Europeans and locals.

Very fine books.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Considering how many threads there has been about The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, that kind of "Pulp Hero/Champions"-mix should almost been seen as a separate sub-genre. I was be a bit disappointed if "the League" wouldn't be mentioned.

Hidden lands has its own book, but I second the idea of touching on the subject in Pulp Hero too.

A discussion about the difference between Pulp Supers and Champion Supers, that goes a bit deeper than the one in the Champions book.

Pulp Sci-Fi in all its forms (aliens, flash gordon H. G. Wells, swamp monsters...). The more, the better. Don't forget super-technology.

I'm quite sure Noir Hero isn't on the schedule for 2007, so I would love something about Noir. Too be honest a text about every genre that often get "mixed up" with pulp fiction (for example, noir and camp) would be good. Something short about similarities and differences. Adventure! had something, but that text were to short.

Some construction ideas for amazing talents. That is super powers that are in genre with Pulp Hero.

[AlHazred]

I think it would be a great idea to cover Pulp archetypes; a lot of people don't really think about the differences between character archetypes then and today. So that, for instance, in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, several of the people I saw it with went, "What's up with the annoying woman reporter?" I had to explain to them the fact that the Annoying Female Reporter was a staple of the genre.

I don't think we really need names, since there are other sources for those. Just drop appropriate references in the reference section.

I will second the motion on Contacts; if there's ever a genre book for Hero System that should cover Contacts in more detail, Pulp Hero is it!

What really gave people in my year-long Pulp Heroes game trouble was coming up with appropriately "pulpish" powers. They could do superpowers, no problem, but "pulp hero powers" drew a blank. While I went through and showed them a few examples (by, for instance, statting out the Shadow, the Avenger, the Spider, Doc Savage, and the Phantom) they still didn't have enough range of examples from which to draw inspiration. Most of them ended up making Golden Age Superheroes instead, for precisely that reason.

[ArmlessTigerMan]

Chapter 2 -- History of the Pulp Era: ...
Chapter 3 -- The World of the Pulp Era: ...


I don't want a history book. The Pulp Era is fictional, so I would like the setting details to be as fantastic as possible. There are plenty of sources for the crunchy details on prohibition and the rise of Nazism for example. I'd be more interested in the state of tourism to Maple White Land, or whatever happened to King Kong's body after he died. Setting and history based on the source material, not on the real world.

[00Machado]

I don't want a history book. The Pulp Era is fictional, so I would like the setting details to be as fantastic as possible. There are plenty of sources for the crunchy details on prohibition and the rise of Nazism for example. I'd be more interested in the state of tourism to Maple White Land, or whatever happened to King Kong's body after he died. Setting and history based on the source material, not on the real world.

This approach hadn't occured to me. I like the idea. Maybe as sidebars in the historical timeline, or maybe as a sub-section. I'd even pay for it as a separate setting book for the Pulp genre.

[Agemegos]

I'm sorry, but I don't recall the conversation.

My most abject apologies. Checking on the messages I posted last April I see that it was not you who suggested that I wait for Pulp HERO, but one of the other board members who suggested that you would probably be covering these issues in Dark Champions and Pulp HERO.

I'm still pushing my barrow, though. I want substantial reasons other than style for characters to use small .32 automatics, derringers, etc. rather than big military 9mms and .45s.

[fredrik_nilsson]

I don't want a history book. The Pulp Era is fictional, so I would like the setting details to be as fantastic as possible. There are plenty of sources for the crunchy details on prohibition and the rise of Nazism for example. I'd be more interested in the state of tourism to Maple White Land, or whatever happened to King Kong's body after he died. Setting and history based on the source material, not on the real world.

I'm not sure if I'm mixing things up, but for me Pulp Fiction isn't an era at all. For me Pulp Fiction is more of an attitude. The reason why it often gets mixed up with a certain era is due to the fact that the genre was in print during that era.

As for which way to show the world I'm of mixed opinions. One hand this is genre book, not a setting book, so talking about King Kong (or similar stuff) seems a bit wrong. That kind of information would be better suited for "Thrilling Places" (scheduled for mid-2006). One the other hand, a fiction world is often more easy to base stories around. I liked the world presented in White Wolf’s Adventure!. I guess a good compromise would be to show the real world, but to have notes or sidebars with common twists (ideas, stories, and so on) of certain areas.

Speaking of areas, don’t forget to mention a few common fictional places, like habitable planets (Mars and Venus). A few "Thrilling Places" common in the genre could also make its way into the example setting at the end of the book.

I would also love a Pulp Fiction view on history (how the pulp fiction authors handle historical stories), or a more in depth view on Pulp Hero together with other genres. What I mean is that I want a more detailed view on how Pulp Hero affects other genres. Pulp Fiction has a more wide scope of what’s “in genre” than most other genres, and I would love to see that reflected in the meta-genre chapter.

[AnotherSkip]

or whatever happened to King Kong's body after he died.
part of my problem with this level of detail is King Kong might be a movie in your campaign, whilst it may be a "fact" in mine.

King Kongs body went the same place everything else went. Same warehouse as the Ark of the Covenant.......


Also Steve Just an FYI, you might want to look at the Mage the Ascension supplement for the Sons of Ether sold separately or bound together in the Songs of Science triple threat.

Getting my pulp addiction through WW rather than Hero....

tis a sad day....

[David Blue]

I'm still pushing my barrow, though. I want substantial reasons other than style for characters to use small .32 automatics, derringers, etc. rather than big military 9mms and .45s.(Shamelessly pushing Agemegos' barrow.)

As opposed to, Call of Cthulu, where players use the .45 cal automatic, the .45 cal Thompson submachinegun, the double-barrelled 12 gauge shotgun and the 30-06 rifle, because they'd be fools not to.

Sure there were great pulp heroes like the Spider who loved their blazing .45s. The big guns shouldn't be nerfed. But if a character likes, for example, the Walther Model 9 Pocket Pistol, they should be able to point to real game reasons for that preference other than considering it stylish to do less damage and have fewer shots available.

[CSgeekHero]

Wow. I've been looking over that outline and all I can say is WOW.

Your already packing quite a bit into that book.

I know I'm getting my copy as soon as it's available.

As far as wanting to see anything in particular two professional packages come to mind: The Gumshoe and The Archeologist.

Thanks for listening.

[Sociotard]

I am curious about one thing. Steve say's this will include a timeline to give everyone a historical feel. Is this a "real world" timeline or a "champions universe" timeline?

Oh, remember, not all of the Pulp action takes place in the savage wilds of the earth. Looking over the source material, a lot of it takes place in nightclubs and ballrooms. Is there a chance on going into detail on the "High Society" skill? I know "The Ultimate Skill" will do this as well, but some consideration is due here. On a related note, mention PS: Dancing. It's a good way to both stand out in a crowd or to blend into one, depending on how you do it. Mention the popular styles of the time, like ballroom, east coast swing, charleston, lindy hop, etc.

[st barbara]

To "David Blue" one reason for using a "lighter" or smaller calibre pistol is the size of the character. If you are playing a lightly built teenager you are more likely to use a Walther PPK in 7.65 mm than a Colt 1911 a1 .45. Remember that only "weak" types used a pistol in two hands in those days and it was usually a sign that you wern't confident if you used a pistol in two hands ! Perhaps some simple rules for recoil of firearms could help simulate this ?

[st barbara]

To "Sociotard" I agree about the "High society" type skills. An interesting class to play could be the "Dilettante"; the person (male or female) who has enough money to do whatever they want and would HAVE to have a "high society" skill. It would be an excuse for a player to have weird skills (such as "Knowledge : rare coins" ) which the referee could build an adventure around !

[David Blue]

To "David Blue" one reason for using a "lighter" or smaller calibre pistol is the size of the character. If you are playing a lightly built teenager you are more likely to use a Walther PPK in 7.65 mm than a Colt 1911 a1 .45. Remember that only "weak" types used a pistol in two hands in those days and it was usually a sign that you wern't confident if you used a pistol in two hands ! Perhaps some simple rules for recoil of firearms could help simulate this ?I like the "bang for your buck" that strength gives you in Hero. I don't want it reduced. But I don't want it increased either. If the main reason characters can't use more effective pistols is not the attactive ease of concealment or swiftness of draw of smaller, smoother pistols but lack of brawn, then strength in effect is giving you more "bang" in a new way.

[st barbara]

Sure if you want to have a hero who runs around with a .45 automatic in each hand by all means construct your character that way. Like any character it becomes a trade off as to where you want to put the points and, if some sort of recoil rules for pistols are included it forces the characters to decide between a hero with greater strength who uses a larger gun (but therefore has less points in other areas of his character) or a person of lower strength who carries a lighter firearm but has more points in other characteristics. It all depends on what sort of character you are trying to create. If I want to create a dashing two fisted adventurer he will have high strength ( and possibly less academic skills), but if I want a brilliant lady librarian (like Evie out of "The Mummy") I will have a character who sacrifices strength for intelligence. If I am constructing my librarian I probably WON'T give her a Colt 1911 .45 automatic, but I might equip her with a Browning .32 auto, just because she knows that she might need it (and it fits neatly in a handbag !)

[TheImperialKhan]

What would I like to see?

Well to start off with I want to see the classic stereotypes explored: the Strong-Jawed Hero, the Stalwart Lieutenant, the Great White Hunter, the Gumshoe Private Eye, etc., etc., etc.

On the weapons tables don't forget to list the year that they became available. It might also be useful to list a price for them as well.

Speaking of prices I definately want to see a fairly substantial price list for the era, at least a full page bur preferably 2 or even 3. I know that you'll have to list two prices (pre and post Black Tuesday) but I think that this will actually drive home the impact of the Great Depression better.

Also it might be a good idea to increase the cost of Wealth during the 30s. It took a lot more work to be rich then than it had in the 20s. Don't want to pay the increased cost? Oh well, your wealth has just dropped to what you've paid for. Thus if you have 0 points in wealth when the Market crashes you go from Middle income to Poor, likewise if your character was Poor he became Destitute, and so on.

On the subject of a timeline, I'd suggest having two running parallel along the page with one showing the events of the real world and the other showing where the Champions Universe diverges from it. Sort of like was done with the one from 4th Edition Golden Age Champions. The timeline should dovetail nicely with the one that will be in the 5E GAC.

Although this really isn't for the Pulp Hero genre book, please have a talk with Aaron Allston. He has a ton of material that was planned for JI which never made it out when JI's sales weren't as big as they'd expected. I'd buy the stuff as an e-book if that were the only way you could publish it, and I hate e-books but for this I'll buy them.

I may have more later but that's it for now.

And Thank you, Steve, I've been waiting a long time for this. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Steve Long]

As far as wanting to see anything in particular two professional packages come to mind: The Gumshoe and The Archeologist.

Already taken care of. I've been doing work out of order, whipping up some Package Deals this weekend so they'll be ready for a soon-to-start PH campaign 'round here.


I am curious about one thing. Steve say's this will include a timeline to give everyone a historical feel. Is this a "real world" timeline or a "champions universe" timeline?

Real world, and nothing but, for two reasons. First, the CU can't even be said to exist until very late in the pulp era. Second, this is a genre book, not a fictional setting book. To properly get across the nature, feel, and adventure opportunities of the period, I have to explain what the world was really like back then -- the history, the daily life, and so on. I'm not going to write a textbook on the subject, but it's got to be covered in sufficient detail that people not well-versed in the era can at least make a stab at pretending to be. ;)

Fictional Pulp Hero settings will get coverage in our supplements. Thrilling Places certainly has some setting material, though it's more of a "cool locations" book than a setting book like CU, MC, or HC. Similarly, Masterminds And Madmen will have character sheets for a couple of pulp-era villains who've been mentioned in both Champions and Dark Champions supplements, such as Dr. Fang and his Legion of Evil. For a thoroughly fleshed-out Pulp setting, you'll have to wait until I can muster the energy to write Hudson City 1935. :hex:

[David Blue]

On the weapons tables don't forget to list the year that they became available. It might also be useful to list a price for them as well.Vehicles too.


Although this really isn't for the Pulp Hero genre book, please have a talk with Aaron Allston. He has a ton of material that was planned for JI which never made it out when JI's sales weren't as big as they'd expected.Aaron Allston's Lands of Mystery is a masterpiece. If there's more where that came from, it's of interest.

[Koshka]

Perhaps some simple rules for recoil of firearms could help simulate this ?

I think STR Minimums for firearms already cover this to some extent. :: since Dark Champs was already on my computer desk, flips to those weapon charts :: The Thompson M-1928 has a STR Min of 14, but only weighs about 5 kilos. No way it takes a 14 STR to carry the thing ... but controlling it in use, that's different.

[TheImperialKhan]

For a thoroughly fleshed-out Pulp setting, you'll have to wait until I can muster the energy to write Hudson City 1935. :hex:

If HC:TUA is any indication it's sure to be fantastic.

I don't gush praise very often but I really think this is the best setting book I've ever seen by far.

The downside is that other material just doesn't seem so good in comparison. (Sorry, Darren, but HC blows MC completely away.) And of course there is now that extremely high level of quality and completeness to attain in future sourcebooks.

So, Steve, about when do you think you're gonna get to Hudson City 1935?

I did a quick and dirty adaptation of Justice, Not Law some years back but it was more or less a stand alone. Follow the link and scroll down towards the bottom of the page for a look:

http://www.geocities.com/blademaster01757/dochawkstar.html

[TheImperialKhan]

Vehicles too.

Yes, absolutely


Aaron Allston's Lands of Mystery is a masterpiece. If there's more where that came from, it's of interest.

He had about 7 or 8 supplements planned. It's a crying shame that they never saw the light of day. :(

[Steve Long]

So, Steve, about when do you think you're gonna get to Hudson City 1935?

Well, it isn't on the 2006 schedule, so it'd be 2007 at the earliest. It's all a question of how well the PH line does. If the genre book and initial supplements sell well, then we'll plan others for 2007; chief among the titles under consideration would be a new Lands Of Mystery (which I've already discussed, albeit ultra-briefly, with Aaron) and HC1935.

[TheImperialKhan]

I can handle that. Of course I will do my part to insure that the PH line sells well. I'll be buying everything that you put out for it. And I won't be waiting for the "damaged" copies either. :)

[yamamura]

Victorian Fantastique (at least until we get Victorian Hero).

Hear hear!

G

[st barbara]

To "Koshka" Using strength minimums would work. However I was thinking of the sort of thing that happenned in "The Mummy" when Evie picked up and fired Rick's large shotgun, and was knocked flat on her back by the recoil ! It might be fun to be able to simulate that with a dice roll .

[Tim]

To "Koshka" Using strength minimums would work. However I was thinking of the sort of thing that happenned in "The Mummy" when Evie picked up and fired Rick's large shotgun, and was knocked flat on her back by the recoil ! It might be fun to be able to simulate that with a dice roll .

I took that to be her unluck in action.

[Super Squirrel]

I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but I'd like to see some discussion into pulp inventions. You have your big and clunky inventions that have important pieces that unscrew and fit in your pocket. You have the fancy potions that have nasty side-effects. You have complex chemical labs with complex chemical and electronic dohickeys.

And don't forget pulp critters. Any chance in the history, the Titanic was sunk by a sea serpent? :)

[Dr. Anomaly]

chief among the titles under consideration would be a new Lands Of Mystery (which I've already discussed, albeit ultra-briefly, with Aaron)Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease!!!!!!

[JmOz]

Have not read all the comments yet BUT:

To me Pulp can almost be considered a meta genre effecting all other genre's:

Pulp Sci Fi get's you Flash Gordon
Pulp Supers gets you the shadow
Pulp westerns
Pulp Action
etc...

As such a sizeable chunk seems to me should be dedicated to combining pulp with other genres, probably not a real section but a theme running through the book...

[Agemegos]

Sure if you want to have a hero who runs around with a .45 automatic in each hand by all means construct your character that way. Like any character it becomes a trade off as to where you want to put the points and, if some sort of recoil rules for pistols are included it forces the characters to decide between a hero with greater strength who uses a larger gun (but therefore has less points in other areas of his character) or a person of lower strength who carries a lighter firearm but has more points in other characteristics.

Just so. Strength minima (or other recoil rules) support a decision to play a weak character who chooses a gun with small recoil: such as a Webley .445 revolver.

I want concealment rules to support a decision to play a strong character who carries a Walther PPK rather than a Colt .45 on those occasions when he needs to conceal his firearm under a tuxedo. Rule that affect only weak charcters, or that do not provide an appropriate incentive to choose a different gun in a casino than on a battlefield will not achieve the effect I am searching for.

[CourtFool]

The Ultimate Skill

[st barbara]

To "Agemagos" Well a Webley .455 certainly has a lower recoil than its American near equivalents, but as you suggest it isn't a small weapon. By all means include a "size" factor for firearms. A Webley Mk VI is 111/4 " long overall and weighs 38 ounces (Source:"The Book Of Pistols and Revolvers" -W H B Smith 1977 edition). If some sort of size factor or "concealability" or something is included it will give the players who don't perhaps know a lot about guns some idea of how big they are. Certainly if my (female) character was going undercover she might pack a .32 Colt Pocket (63/4" long, 24 ozs) rather than her preferred Colt .38/40 Single Action revolver (101/4 " long. about 36 ozs) !

[st barbara]

Again to "Agemagos". It would seem to me that it would be logical for players to taylor their weapons to the particular situation that their character is in (provided they have the chance); one firearm for "undercover" operations that can be easily concealed in a pocket or a handbag, and another for more obvious occasions, such as roaming around the jungles of South America searching for a lost temple ! It shouldn't be too difficult to construct a set of rules concerning size and recoil of weapons or "strength minima" for use that will see players gravitating towards the most appropriate weapons for their characters size and the likely cicumstances under which the weapons will be required. I think that if someone playing a lightly built character wants to use a heavy firearm (perhaps because of its greater damage) there SHOULD be some sort of penalty.

[st barbara]

addendum. Really, "all" you need is a good reference book that gives sizes for firearms, then work out a system that gives each weapon a "concealability rating" or something ! These could vary from 1 for a tiny pocket pistol such as a 3mm Kolibri up to say 10 or more for a .45 Buntline special with a 12" barrel ! The referee might have to make a decision on how easy it is to discover a hidden gun depending on where and how the P C is concealing their weapon (hiding a Colt 1911 .45 Auto in your stocking top is NOT a good option for most female characters !) but I don't think that it would present too much difficulty.

[gojira]

I don't want a history book. The Pulp Era is fictional, so I would like the setting details to be as fantastic as possible. There are plenty of sources for the crunchy details on prohibition and the rise of Nazism for example. I'd be more interested in the state of tourism to Maple White Land, or whatever happened to King Kong's body after he died. Setting and history based on the source material, not on the real world.

I mostly agree. TWO WHOLE CHAPTERS on pulp history sound like too much. I'd think that half a chapter would be more like it, and in a pinch, we are talking about one decade's of history, one page could do it.

Obviously it's your book, but two chapters might look like filler as someone flips through it, and might desuade me from purchasing the book.

On the other hand, I'd like to see descriptions of all weapons and equipment. I've never seen an RPG where this effort seemed like a waste. Twilight 2000 and Dark Conspiracy had large descriptions and pictures of each gun and piece of equipment, and it added greatly to the feel of the game world (both games used the same rules).

GURPS High Tech takes a middle road. The equipment description is in smaller point size than the rest of the book, and is basically a combination of brief description and designers notes. For example, it'll say that gun X was rushed into production and was hated by the troops as it tended to collect dirt in the magazine and jam, so it was given a lower malfunction rating to reflect this. Each description is a short to medium paragraph, and with the smaller point size, gives the reader a lot of bang for the page count.

My $1.25 (inflation).

[Koshka]

The old Champions II "Mastermind" rule doesn't really fit, but something on how the Evil Mastermind/Mad Scientist gets his weird science goodies would be useful. A mind control ray that will cover all of Campaign City isn't normal tech by any stretch of the imagination, so he can't use cash; but if he's got to come up with enough XP to pay for the thing he'll be 98 years old by the time he can finally start his Evil Master Plan and probably die of a heart attack when the heroes charge in.

(These rules could then be used for PCs whose players want to stick Art Deco ornaments on everything in Gadgets And Gear and use them in your Pulp game. I'm certain I'm not the only one who has run into that type of player.)

[Admiral C]

Are you going to do great white hunters and the endless (it seemed at the time) war on man-eaters (eg. The Ghost and the Darkness), evil witch-doctors and the like? If so, I think the gamemaster new to this needs a little advice. Sustaining the tension in a man-eater scenario calls for a repertoire of tricks - but not one too many. A leopard with a three-figure kill-list is unlikely to stun the hero, bind him, explain the master plan, put the hero in a death-trap (another common use for animals, especially enraged apes for some reason I've never understood), and then in effect give him another chance; so one bad call or bad roll can be - bad.



More about Africa and African adventures period. Africa (aside from Egypt) is usually under represented in the RPG market. Unless you count the Rifts books :idjit: or Nyambe. But all of those books are not really helpful to pulp.

As a side note I have GURPS Cliffhangers (also a good book) and it stated (about Lion attacks) that they rarely happened, but in Brian Hernes "White Hunters" it says that they happened far more often. Usually attacking Indian coolies working on the railroad. J.A. Hunter is quoted in both.

One other thing I'd like to see is writeups (even in sidebars) of important historical characters pulp era characters might interact with. J.A. Hunter is one, Otto Skorzenzy, Albert Einstein, Bonny & Clyde, Al Capone, are other examples.

Adm

[Tim]

As a side note I have GURPS Cliffhangers (also a good book) and it stated (about Lion attacks) that they rarely happened, but in Brian Hernes "White Hunters" it says that they happened far more often. Usually attacking Indian coolies working on the railroad. J.A. Hunter is quoted in both.



Wow, they used Indian coolies to build a railroad in Sub-Saharan Afirca? Wouldn't it have been easier to use the natives?

(I know you didn't write the book. But it is such an obvious mistake that I had to comment.)

[Agemegos]

It shouldn't be too difficult to construct a set of rules concerning size and recoil of weapons or "strength minima" for use that will see players gravitating towards the most appropriate weapons for their characters size and the likely cicumstances under which the weapons will be required.

Indeed it would not. Exactly such rules existed in Justice, Inc.. the original HERO System pulp adventure game.

[Agemegos]

Wow, they used Indian coolies to build a railroad in Sub-Saharan Afirca? Wouldn't it have been easier to use the natives?

Evidently not. The British encouraged a lot of Indians to migrate to South and East Africa, many of them (originally) as railway workers. That is where the ethnically Indian component of the old 'coloured' category under Apartheit came from. If you look into the real events behind the movie The Ghost and the Darkness, you will discover that when Patterson was building his railway bridge across the Tsavo in 1898, most of his workforce consisted o indentured workers from India.

http://www.ralphmag.org/DH/lions.html

http://www.lionlmb.org/gandd.html

http://www.russelltexas.com/Newspaper/perspectiveJuly202003.htm

http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/tsavo/dest26.html

Perhaps too few locals wanted jobs are railway workers. Or too few were skilled plate-layers. Or too few were in indentures. In any case, it is not a mistake, let alone an obvious one.

[Agemegos]

addendum. Really, "all" you need is a good reference book that gives sizes for firearms, then work out a system that gives each weapon a "concealability rating" or something !

I don't pay game designers for the permission to write rules myself.

And I don't want to by a $57 encyclopaedia of smallarms for something that could easily be a column in the Pulp HERO weapons table the way it was in Justice, Inc..

[Agemegos]

Again to "Agemagos".

Umm. Do you dislike my user name for some reason?

[BobGreenwade]

The old Champions II "Mastermind" rule doesn't really fit...While I agree with this wholeheartedly, a passing mention of it (with a Stop Sign) would not be necessarily a Bad Thing. This is the only genre where the rule would really work, and I'd not dwell on it for more than about a short to medium-length paragraph, but a small insertion wouldn't kill the book.

[Prometheus]

A small section on the pitfalls of adapting Pulp to Hero, similar to the GM notes on what works in comics, but not in Champions.

And since Hero gamers tend to roam in packs, something on how to handle a Pulp Hero team.

[Old Man]

And since Hero gamers tend to roam in packs, something on how to handle a Pulp Hero team.

In particular, what happens when two players bring the same character to the table. The leading cast of a pulp story usually has one each of each character arche/stereotype. What if there are two professors or two gumshoes?

[Lamrok]

In particular, what happens when two players bring the same character to the table. The leading cast of a pulp story usually has one each of each character arche/stereotype. What if there are two professors or two gumshoes?

Or two freakin cowboys, which has happened in our last two pulp games. My advice is to let the GM know your archetype ASAP.

Two professors works out fine if they have different areas of expertise.

[Andrea]

Hi,
I don't know if someone has already cited the book but what I would like to see is a book similar to Rolemaster's Pulp Adventures that was a very good book.
It detailed history, VIPs, Slangs and geography. Maybe it was a little to light in vehicle rules and gadgets ( that are so importan in a Pulp setting).

Ciao
Andrea

[st barbara]

To "AgemEgos" No I just try to type too fast and i'm a lousy speller !

[st barbara]

To "Agemegos" So what DO you want from the gun rules ? Do you not want to worry about recoil ?( I think that some sort of recoil rules could be included as optional), do you not want to have to worry about the size of the weapons ? All it would take to give the weapon's size would be a figure included in the description or a simple table. I think that it would be good to have that in the rules but, if it isn't there, there ARE resources on the Web and other players who have useful reference books that you may lack (like me !) can help. You said that you want a reason for a large person to carry a small weapon; the most obvious reason that comes to mind for me is concealability and for this to work you will need some sort of information on how large and heavy each weapon is.

[st barbara]

To "Andrea" The original "Justice Inc" rules had a good section on slang as well, if I remember correctly.

[st barbara]

To "Lamrock" and "Old Man" The referee might have to supervise the character creation process carefully to avoid character clashes; or tell you players in advance that you will only accept ONE of each of a group of archetypes and ask them to sort out who gets what among themselves !

[Old Man]

You said that you want a reason for a large person to carry a small weapon; the most obvious reason that comes to mind for me is concealability and for this to work you will need some sort of information on how large and heavy each weapon is.

That's why he keeps asking for some kind of concealability stat in the weapons chart, just like in Justice Inc v1. He's said this over and over, I can't figure out how you keep missing that.

[Old Man]

To "Lamrock" and "Old Man" The referee might have to supervise the character creation process carefully to avoid character clashes; or tell you players in advance that you will only accept ONE of each of a group of archetypes and ask them to sort out who gets what among themselves !

My only problems with this approach are that 1) it essentially enforces character classes which Hero gamers generally detest and 2) it is very likely that you will get two players who forcefully insist on playing the same type.

[David Blue]

My only problems with this approach are that 1) it essentially enforces character classes which Hero gamers generally detest and 2) it is very likely that you will get two players who forcefully insist on playing the same type.No no, we can easily settle this by straightforward agreement. I'll be the iron-muscled Handsome Hero who woos and wins the Native Princess, and you'll be the Cynical Piano Player who looks for a piano to play in the steaming jungle of the Lost World, and never gets a girl of any description. Plenty of roleplaying possibilities for both of us. Or maybe you can be the Girl Looking For Her Father. Just so we agree that any Native Princess romance plot is mine.

[Lamrok]

To "Lamrock" and "Old Man" The referee might have to supervise the character creation process carefully to avoid character clashes; or tell you players in advance that you will only accept ONE of each of a group of archetypes and ask them to sort out who gets what among themselves !

The first time, I replied thirty minutes after the email went out but found out the other player beat me, so I changed characters (Gypsy Circus performer). The second time, I beat the other player (same guy), so I played my cowboy (the same one I had ready to go in the previous game)

[Lamrok]

That's why he keeps asking for some kind of concealability stat in the weapons chart, just like in Justice Inc v1. He's said this over and over, I can't figure out how you keep missing that.

Another way to phrase this would be "a concealability stat, Just like Steve Long included when he wrote Law Dogs for the Deadlands system." :bmk:

[Lamrok]

My only problems with this approach are that 1) it essentially enforces character classes which Hero gamers generally detest and 2) it is very likely that you will get two players who forcefully insist on playing the same type.

It sin't so much a matter of character classes as "schtick." Everyone likes to carve out their own niche in the things they are responsible for. This is the same no matter what setting you are playing in.

[zornwil]

I didn't even know this forum had popped up until Lamrok mentioned it in passing...

I'm in the middle of game prep now and happened across it while looking for a few things I'm reusing from the boards, so no real time, but just wanted to say I'm one of those people NOT very well versed in Pulp. So taking that into account, here's some basics I'd really like to see:

Archetypes (I know you'll have them anyway - but I'd like LOTS!)
LOTS of PRE usage tips to fit the genre
lots of flavor emphasis - and not just in text but in illustrations with captions or word balloons (why not, if artists can?)
basic primer on scientific progression and especially criminal investigation technology through the normative pulp period - something easy to reference
I think you need to acknowledge the "split up the party" issue and give lots of tips for doing that EFFECTIVELY (not just how to "work around" it or gloss over such)

Just some quick thoughts.

[Agemegos]

To "Agemegos" So what DO you want from the gun rules ?

The return of the SIZ stat that they used to have in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc.


All it would take to give the weapon's size would be a figure included in the description or a simple table.

Exactly so. Just like it was in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc..


You said that you want a reason for a large person to carry a small weapon;

Particularly, I want the game to represent the factors that in reality and genre fiction motivate people and characters to carry some smaller pistols even though they are capable of using larger ones.

'PYSCH LIM: habitually uses .32 pistols', or 'Psych lim: mistakenly thinks a 6.1" Walther PPK is more concealable than a 7.3" Glock 20' would be a reason for a large character to use a small pistol, but it is not the kind of reason I want.


the most obvious reason that comes to mind for me is concealability[//quote]

That is the most obvious and compelling such factor operating in reality and genre fiction, yes.

[quote]and for this to work you will need some sort of information on how large and heavy each weapon is.

And that is exactly what I am saying that I want to see in Pulp HERO. Such information was included in the weapon table in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc.. The rules were easy to use, took up little space in the rule book, and produced desireable effects. I consider them to have been sorely missed ever since my circle switched over to 3rd Edition.

Now, I really don't think that the importance of such rules is confined to pulp adventure gaming. Discreet carries are important in the kind of adventure I use Star HERO and Dark Champions for (SF and modern-setting action-thrillers, mostly). I really think that such rules ought to be in the core rulebook. But they aren't in Fifth Edition, and I'm not about to start agitating for a Sixth Edition just yet.

Now, Dark Champions lists PER mods for weapons, which do a pretty good job, though I am a bit surprised by some of the numbers (eg. a Glock 20 is as small as a Walther PPK/S). But I think that the range is too narrow (+0 for a derringer, +1 for any smallish pistol, +2 for a full-sized military sidearam, +3 for monsters like the Desert Eagle or a S&W 29 Silhouette etc.).

But on the other hand, Star HERO doesn't list PER mods for weapons. I wouldn't want Pulp HERO to repeat this omission.

Anyway, what I am struggling in my usual inarticulate way to say is that I would like to see Pulp HERO include:

1) A 'size' stat for weapons like the ones we used to have in Justice, Inc., ie. with a wider range and finer distinctions than we see in the PER mods in Dark Champions.

2) If I can't have 1, I'd like the weapons table to include DC-style per mods, not omit them as FREd and Star Hero do.

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters, small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.

[David Blue]

The return of the SIZ stat that they used to have in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc.

... Just like it was in the original HERO System pulp adventure game, Justice, Inc..

Anyway, what I am struggling in my usual inarticulate way to say is that I would like to see Pulp HERO include:

1) A 'size' stat for weapons like the ones we used to have in Justice, Inc., ie. with a wider range and finer distinctions than we see in the PER mods in Dark Champions.

2) If I can't have 1, I'd like the weapons table to include DC-style per mods, not omit them as FREd and Star Hero do.

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters, small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.Ditto.

I liked the rules for James Bond 007. If you set down numbers that invite the players to think not just about damage and shots but about concealment, jam chance and ... getting the first shot (or knife throw) off ... it gives them pause. Suddenly a smooth little pistol that draws swiftly without catching on anything looks better. (Example: Browning Model 1910.)

But simply getting back to Justice Inc. would be such a Good Thing I would regard guns and concealed weapons as a solved problem at that point.

[Agemegos]

I liked the rules for James Bond 007.

It was a splendid game. I have two copies and still play it every now and again.

Unfortunately it isn't as versatile as it could be.

[st barbara]

Okay "Agemegos" I can agree with you on the desirability of a "size" stat being included in the firearm descriptions in the rules. If this DOESN'T happen when the rules come out I have every intention of adding it myself (I am confident that I have enough information to do this, we will see whether my confidence is misplaced). If and when I find it necessary to do this I will let you know what I have come up with.

[AnotherSkip]

3) Rules for discreet carries such as ankle holsters, small-of-back, belt clip, western-style holsters, and armpit holsters, derringers & throwing daggers up sleeves, etc. These rules might discuss how these carries slow the draw as well as how they conceal the weapon.

Perhaps something like the martial arts stances (ie being no points)?
Ankle Holster: +1 Concealability, -1 Quickdraw
Quickdraw Holster: +2 Quickdraw, -2 Concealability,
Spiring loaded Holster: +2 Lightning Reflexes, only for qucikdrawing that weapon, +1 Concealability, two actions to return to holster.
Trick Holster: +1 with Dex rolls only for performing tricks into or out of the holster.
Trick Holster II: +5 Pre only while Quickdrawing or replacing weapon, -2 concealibility.

[gojira]

Perhaps something like the martial arts stances (ie being no points)?
Ankle Holster: +1 Concealability, -1 Quickdraw
Quickdraw Holster: +2 Quickdraw, -2 Concealability,
Spiring loaded Holster: +2 Lightning Reflexes, only for qucikdrawing that weapon, +1 Concealability, two actions to return to holster.
Trick Holster: +1 with Dex rolls only for performing tricks into or out of the holster.
Trick Holster II: +5 Pre only while Quickdrawing or replacing weapon, -2 concealibility.

I like this, it's an excellent idea. Agemegos's idea for a SIZ stat for small firearms is also very good. PLEASE PLEASE add something like this to the basic rules for PH.

Thinking a bit more broadly, I'd like to see a few different "worlds", or maybe sub-genres, described in the Pulp Hero book. At least one very true-to-life world, for Cassablanca wannabes. And at least two other, more "fantastic" worlds. At least one flying-ace world, with regular planes and then airships like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and Crimson Skies. Then one Weird Tales pulp horror theme.

These two (flying aces and horror) seem to comprise a LOT of what I'm seeing on the various suggestion threads here in the pulp hero forum.

[Peregrine]

Don't let the 'reality' folks drag the book down. Pulp was about larger-than-life (it was, after all, the linear literary predecessor of superhero comics); this book should reflect the genre appropriately.

[Old Man]

These two (flying aces and horror) seem to comprise a LOT of what I'm seeing on the various suggestion threads here in the pulp hero forum.

Well, to these you need to add the whole Lost World/Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy milieu. In some respects this is the intersection of the three campaigns you describe, but is sufficiently different to warrant its own treatment, especially with respect to cannibal apes and animated mummies.

[Baphomet Jones]

Sidebars in the sections on pulp locations about the local legends, lost tribes, and mythic beasties commonly assocatied with each locale would be wonderful. Even if they're not appropriate to a particular campaign it would do a lot to help capture the feel of a location

[st barbara]

To "Old Man" I agree. At some point any Pulp game should encounter some sort of "lost world" adventure. I'm sure that I have an old book that was done for just that purpose with stats in several systems for running a "lost world romance". Ancient curses are right up there as well whether they come from an Egyptian mummy, a Tibetan high priest, or a tribal shaman, and don't forget those encounters with "things that man was not meant to know about "!

[Agemegos]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'd just like to note it here for easy reference.

It'd be great if Pulp HERO included a character sheet designed for the requirements of characters that neither cast spells nor exert powers, but that wield guns and drive cars.

[gojira]

Well, to these you need to add the whole Lost World/Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy milieu. In some respects this is the intersection of the three campaigns you describe, but is sufficiently different to warrant its own treatment, especially with respect to cannibal apes and animated mummies.

Hmm, was Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider/Mummy stuff present in the pulp period? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking. Lost World was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in 1912, so it's sorta pulp (kinda proto-pulp), and there's H. G. Wells' stuff, but I'm not sure that the whole cannibal-vine-cover-ruins thing didn't come later. Maybe Tarzan is part of what you are talking about?

Anywhoo, I agree that the *modern* idea of pulp probably includes these genres, so it might be wise to include them.

If I had to pick a couple more genres to add though, my choices I think would be Bootleggers vs. Cops (US prohibition), and early (pre-WW II) supers. :D

[demonjuice]

Period terminology is great, but in my experience in reading pulps, and playing pulp it is more about the verbs and adjectives then the nouns. as a brief addendum to the lingo section there should be bit on how to "speak the pulps", or putting it all together to get the visceral physicality that inhabits all good pulp fiction.
There also must be weird scientist terminology, that would be both fun and useful, because there are limited coherant gaming resources for it already.I understand the need to focus on reality, but the mad inventor is far too valuable a genre staple to be ignored.

[st barbara]

To "Agemegos" I would think that the characters that "cast spells or exert powers" would be the exception rather than the rule in a Pulp game. I think that "powers" should be either restricted or expensive for P Cs and spell casting would also have to be pretty restricted for it to work in a Pulp setting and not be just "Pre war Champions".

[Agemegos]

To "Agemegos" I would think that the characters that "cast spells or exert powers" would be the exception rather than the rule in a Pulp game.

Indeed. That is exactly why I asked for a character sheet designed specially for characters that do not use spells or powers.

The space saved ought to be used to a section for weapon and vehicle stats.

[demonjuice]

For technologies treatment in the equipment section I would like to see more then just a list of stats for weapons and dates, I would also like to have quick overview of real world technical developements related into game terms, so I can tweak them as need and still keep the period flavor. this is accomplished incredibly well in the award winning Gurps Steampunk. that would be giving gms a real tool to work with instead of a set of expected limitations.

[st barbara]

Agreed "Demonjuice" It might also be useful to have the timeline "extended" a bit past the "classic" Pulp era (after World War II that is) with lists of when some inventions were first developed and first marketed so that "brilliant inventor" type players can come up with things a bit ahead of their "real world" invention times.

[LadyChaos]

in my experience in reading pulps, and playing pulp it is more about the verbs and adjectives then the nouns.

The first time I saw King Kong I was struck when Carl Denhem said "swell" about every other sentence. No one says swell anymore (unless speaking of injuries!).

[zornwil]

The first time I saw King Kong I was struck when Carl Denhem said "swell" about every other sentence. No one says swell anymore (unless speaking of injuries!).
Oh, you kid!

(another '30s-ism, give or take, in case it or my intent was lost!)

[Jess Nevins]

What I'd like to see is the PH delayed until I finish my Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes, so I can send you a copy, so it can appear in the Bibliography. :-)

Saving that, some sort of acknowledgment that there was a huge amount of pulp material published outside the US, with a correspondingly vast number of pulp heroes. (I can send you as much material as you'd like on them--you wouldn't have to do any research whatsoever).

Jess Nevins
Encyclopedia of Fantastic Victoriana (Nov., 2005)
Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes (Nov., 2006)
Encyclopedia of Golden Age Superheroes (Nov., 2007)

[Steve Long]

Believe me, Jess, I really wish your pulp heroes book was coming out sooner -- I have your book on LoEG, which I've quite enjoyed. Whenever we get around to Victorian Hero, I'm definitely going to order the EoFV. ;)

[Jess Nevins]

Thanks! But I can probably set aside a comp copy of the Victoriana book for you. :-)

[Steve Long]

Hmmm -- this gets more and more interesting. :eg: I just sent you a PM, Jess, so that I don't derail the thread with discussions of Victoriana books and such. ;)

[OddHat]

What I'd like to see is the PH delayed until I finish my Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes, so I can send you a copy, so it can appear in the Bibliography. :-)

Saving that, some sort of acknowledgment that there was a huge amount of pulp material published outside the US, with a correspondingly vast number of pulp heroes. (I can send you as much material as you'd like on them--you wouldn't have to do any research whatsoever).

Jess Nevins
Encyclopedia of Fantastic Victoriana (Nov., 2005)
Encyclopedia of Pulp Heroes (Nov., 2006)
Encyclopedia of Golden Age Superheroes (Nov., 2007)

Just a quick "Wow, Jess Nevins!"

I really enjoyed your two books on LoEG (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-2938513-7446555), and am looking forward to your book on Victoriana. I'd urge anyone interested in fantastic literature to head to Amazon and take a look. :)

[demonjuice]

Agreed "Demonjuice" It might also be useful to have the timeline "extended" a bit past the "classic" Pulp era (after World War II that is) with lists of when some inventions were first developed and first marketed so that "brilliant inventor" type players can come up with things a bit ahead of their "real world" invention times.

I agree, but I am thinking about a little more then that. something like alternative technological routes and theories.

for me one of the things that ruined the League of extraordinary gentlmen movie was the fact that they represent comparitively contemporary technology as advanced, and ruined the flavor of the period setting, and WW2 brought an extremely fast level of technological advancement. That is why I would advocate not only using the technological information of the real world, but also the theories that were present at the time. kinda like the distinction that was made between real world, and wild martial arts, but more terraced.
-hope I am making sense

[st barbara]

To "Demonjuice" Yeah I could go for that too. Might take a bit of work though ! A bit of research into Nikola Tesla and some of his more radical ideas might produce some interesting "alternative technologies". I think that "Adventures Unlimited Press" has published some books on his alternative technologies, I just don't happen to own any !

[Doc Democracy]

OK, I've read all five pages so far and these have not been mentioned.

Pulp is all about feel. There was a comment about making the book 'look' like a pulp book to give the flavour, that's not so important to me but I would like to see a character sheet that conveys a pulp feel to the players. As I'm sure I've said many times before the character sheet is the user interface of the system and Windows has proved that a GUI is much better.

I would also like to see a section explaining how to exploit the toolkit to get a pulp feel to a campaign. By that I don't mean the gadgets and superskills and stuff but how the GM can choke down certain parts of the system and bring other sections into much greater focus to get a pulp feel to the system.

As for those wanting an adventure, The Coates Shambler from one of the early Adventurer's Club was one of the best scenarios I've ever played and ran. A reprise of that would probably suffice.

I'm looking forward to this. Justice Inc has been my favourite HERO supplement of all time - could the Justice Inc be retained as a sub-heading for Pulp HERO (I understand why it isn't being released as Justice Inc).


Doc

[Supreme Serpent]

I'd like to see "By Aaron Allston" on the cover. :) Other names can be there as well.

[AnotherSkip]

there are a few critters from previous Hero products you might want to give a 5th ed Facelift to... there was a character from *Gasps* was it Dark champions? who had been an adventurer for nearly 100 years by the time of DC.. Can that be right? The one with the Tarot Deck.

might be fun to see him as a sample begginer character....

Don't know too many books borrowed from too many friends to long ago...

[Peregrine]

Agreed "Demonjuice" It might also be useful to have the timeline "extended" a bit past the "classic" Pulp era (after World War II that is) with lists of when some inventions were first developed and first marketed so that "brilliant inventor" type players can come up with things a bit ahead of their "real world" invention times.

Seconded. This could also support alternate worlds where the "Pulp Era" extended into and past WWII (or WWII never happened, etc.). It seems obvious to me that there won't be a lot of room (if any) for extensive alternate pulp worlds discussion, but any information relevant to the main thesis of the book that could be so used would be excellent, and I think your suggestion would quality.

[Twilight]

there are a few critters from previous Hero products you might want to give a 5th ed Facelift to... there was a character from *Gasps* was it Dark champions? who had been an adventurer for nearly 100 years by the time of DC.. Can that be right? The one with the Tarot Deck.

might be fun to see him as a sample begginer character....

Don't know too many books borrowed from too many friends to long ago...

That would be the Raven, whom I would definetly like to see written up in Pulp Hero and the Velvet Phantom as well. They're both cool characters as far as I'm concerned and I personally find them more interesting then I ever found the Blue Moon Killer. I would also like write-ups on The Golden Tiger, Sam Spivey, Scarlet Shadow and Jim Battle and the Science Police. Naturally Dr. Fang and his Alliance of Evil need to appear too. :)

[FenrisUlf]

All cool characters, though as a Pennsylvania native I'd include the Black Owl on a list of 'Champs Universe pulp heroes I'd like to see'.

[ldorn]

The following Adventurers Club articles updated for 5th Edition:

#5: The Hawkes Phantom (Town Map)
#7: Gadgets and Treasures (The Mercy Gun)
#9: Darko Fon-Jager, The Empire Club (Package Deals)
#10: Hands of the Strangler (Map of San Francisco)
#11: Care and Feeding of Deathtraps (Expand Justice Inc. section), Exotic Weapons for Justice, Inc.
#13 (Bonus Issue): New JI Package Deals
#14: Autogiris and Airships
#15: Empire Club (Black and White Movie Monsters)
#18: Empire Club (Ham-Hand's (The Black Peral))
#21: Carolina Caldwell and the Quest for the Gold Idol, "Curse You, You Fiend"

Non Justice, Inc articles that should be considered:

#3: Terror in the Treasures (Museum Map, adventure could be adapted as a horror scenario)
#8: Sound the Alarm, Part One
#9: Sound the Alarm, Part Two (foucsing on Pulp Hero era devices)

Expanding the timeline to cover WW I and after WW II. Some Pulp Hero characters will be veterans of World War I, and possibly continue to adventure after WW II (as did Doc Savage, The Shadow and the Phantom Detective).

[PhantomNarrator]

First off, let me say that I am ecstatic about this thread and that the project is finally moving forward! Kudos to you Steve, for breathing new life into Justice Inc. Now, on to my comments . . .

To start, I’d love to see a classic-style pulp cover, along the lines of the original Justice, Inc. – one with lot’s of color, not that horrid sepia tone they used for Adventure.

As many appropriate interior illustrations as possible—but spare us cartoonish or manga-like images, please, there’s too much of that already and it doesn’t fit the style.

An extensive table of world destinations with costs and travel times by transportation type would be appreciated. With that in mind, more details on the special challenges and dangers faced by travelers in that era would be ideal.

An extensive technology table, with dates of invention and their widespread availability in developed countries.

A discussion of scientific models in vogue at the time. Which theories were dominant in each field? Which were on their way out but still had adherents? What were some of the fringe scientific beliefs and predictions of the time?

A discussion of period technology, especially radio (in terms of its portability and environmental conditions that can effect transmission and reception), and the telephone system. Players will be using these constantly, they deserve special coverage.

Lot’s of advice for running pulp adventures, especially for capturing that breathless sense of adventure they engendered. For example: how to keep the pace moving, how to build suspense, how to design interesting death traps with samples and possible escapes, and an extensive section on creating and role-playing criminal masterminds and their modus operandi.

Also, David Blue’s comments on ammunition and animals are very salient and would add novelty and flavor to the product.

Finally, not necessarily in the main book, but definitely worth a supplement: A detailed urban setting, like Hudson City. Ideally this would be a new city, like Brian Misiaszek’s great idea for a “Pulp Apple” version of New York City. I have already done most of the work for my bi-weekly “Omega City” campaign, actually, only for San Francisco.

Sorry my first post is so long, but with this new forum I just got so excited. Can’t wait for GenCon - my lurking days on these boards are done!

[st barbara]

To "Phantom Narrator" No need to apologise ! I think that the rest of us would like to see those things too !

[CSgeekHero]

I finally got to see National Treasure and I'm hoping to see Sahara while it's still in theatres.

So, I would like to see a small section for how best to run a modern pulp campaign. I figure most people would consider it a cross between Dark Champions and Pulp Hero, however, Dark Champions is more gritty than the above movies.

Just a thought.

[ross_winn]

I do agree that highlighting the differences between supers and pulps is a good idea. A masked vigilante isn't a superhero, and vice versa. A discussion of pulp subgenre; espescially noir, lost worlds, jungle stories, the weird orient, and the like.

[Pentoth]

I would like to see something to do with cults. A small section on creating them or tailoring them for the campaign. I am glad to see a description of Pulp as I have a hard time trying to explain it to my players. Lots of maps would be great as well as an adventure or two to get people going with the right feel.

[ross_winn]

I would like to see something to do with cults. A small section on creating them or tailoring them for the campaign. I am glad to see a description of Pulp as I have a hard time trying to explain it to my players. Lots of maps would be great as well as an adventure or two to get people going with the right feel.


ooohhh, good call...

[The Mad GM]

Lots of maps would be great as well as an adventure or two to get people going with the right feel.

Given time constraints, I'd rather have a couple dozen good hooks than one or two adventures.

But then I'm a seat-of-the-pants style GM.

And I'm mad.

Ooh yeah, and a random Nazi naming generator would be cool too.

[st barbara]

Given time constraints, I'd rather have a couple dozen good hooks than one or two adventures.

But then I'm a seat-of-the-pants style GM.

And I'm mad.

Ooh yeah, and a random Nazi naming generator would be cool too.
Something like the "Adventure Seeds" that are used in "GURPS" ? A quick one paragraph description of an adventure idea that can get the Referee thinking and can be turned into an adventure with just a little fleshing out. Sounds good to me !

[Citizen Keen]

Steve-O:
I'm sure you've written up 1 & 2 already, but they're related to #3, and #3 is important to me.

1) A detailed analysis of supporting characters in the Pulp HERO genre. (Duh)
2) A detailed analysis of playing supporting characters. (Should be a big duh)
3) A detailed analysis of GMing for supporting characters.

Now, I find this to be difficult. In Champions campaigns, it's hard to run adventures that are equally interesting to players built with 50 points less. In the Pulp Genre, those characters are even MORE common, and some commentary on running adventures catered towards supporting sidekicks.

Thanks!

[Andrea]

Mmmh If I Have to be honest I'd like to see a Pulp Era RPG Book that does justice to Europe.

I mean we all know that Pulp comes from America but those years ( 20ies and 30ies) were very interesting even this side of the pond and I was very disappointed that ( for example) pulp adventures from ICE ( that was a marvelous book) did very litlle justice to this with some historical inaccuracies.

We had writers, poets and illustrators that, even if they were not technically pulp, were pivotal in creating the worlwide feeling of Pulpness ( does this word exist ?). A brief mention to their works would complete the book in my opinion.

And sure, I'd love to see Italy well described because I think that it has some RPG interesting peculiarities ( that were the shady years of the rising fascism, we were full of conspiracies and we'got the Vatican) and mostly because we are always the cinderella of any setting and sourcebook ( In Rift we are brought back to the Roman Empire !!!).
Just plain old campanilism

But in any case I blindly trust Hero Games ( and Steven) and I know that the book will be awesome.
Ciao

[st barbara]

Agreed "Andrea". Something on the situation in Europe during the Pulp era would be very useful. The idea of a bunch of P C's running around in Italy or Germany trying to foil the fascists or obtain some artifact is very appealing to me. We should at least get some write ups on the various European organizations (such as the Abwehr, the OGPU and whatever secret service Mussolini had) that the players might have to face !

[Mentor]

As our Pulp Hero campaign promises to be globe spanning, a reasonable overview of various individual regions, not just Europe or the US, in the early 20th century would be desirable.

[walker]

Arch villain creation ideas or guidelines.

Travel time between locations. For example, how long did it take to travel between NYC and London in 1934 in a plane? In a boat? Just provide standard means of transportation for the time with info about average flight/sail/drive speeds.

And finally -- I'd like to see the game!! Release date says mid-2005, which is now. I'm really looking forward to it.

[Steve Long]

I appreciate the suggestions, but unfortunately the time for suggestions is more or less past, since the playtest files just went up (see other post). ;)

[Super Squirrel]

And man is it good so far...

[Tim]

Saw a partial preview at Diecon. Excuse me while I go and download the playtest manuscript.
:thumbup:

[Steve Long]

And man is it good so far...

It never ceases to amaze me how fast some of y'all read. ;)

[Super Squirrel]

Well, I'll admit I haven't read every single word in the Steve Long CIA Fact Book that is called Chapter 3 yet.

[ross_winn]

It never ceases to amaze me how fast some of y'all read. ;)

This from a man who types 200 words a minute...

[Tim]

This from a man who types 200 words a minute...

Just to keep up we have to read just as fast.

[st barbara]

I appreciate the suggestions, but unfortunately the time for suggestions is more or less past, since the playtest files just went up (see other post). ;) Maybe you can incorporate lateer suggestions in the NEXT edition of "Pulp Hero", or in a future suplement !

[Super Squirrel]

Or a five page book entitled:

The Pulp things Steve forgot. I mean, the only thing he hasn't mentioned Pulp wise that I have seen is the Hoover Dam as a location.

[Tim]

Or a five page book entitled:

The Pulp things Steve forgot. I mean, the only thing he hasn't mentioned Pulp wise that I have seen is the Hoover Dam as a location.


:jawdrop: Shame on you Steve., for forgetting the Hoover Dam. :tsk: Now you have to go and rewrite the whole thing. :rofl:

[Steve Long]

Dam it! :)

[st barbara]

Typically this has probably struck me too late to be of any use but some information on internal transport in countries other than the U S A in the Pulp era would be useful. Say for example the P C's need to get from Shanghai to Chungking and don't have any planes available how long will it take ? What are the roads like and how easy is it to secure a vehicle ? How good is the rail system ? Information like this for many countries outside the U S A would be very helpful for referees and players !

[CourtFool]

Shame on you Steve., for forgetting the Hoover Dam.

As long as he remembered the llamas.

[Steve Long]

Sorry, CF, no llamas (well, other than one really brief mention in the South America section).

st b, I think the travel section has the information that would allow you to extrapolate what you need to know, if you want to be precise about the travel times. It's not country-by-country specific, but as general information it's broadly applicable to most Pulp situations. ;)

[st barbara]

To "Steve Long" Thank you for that. I know that the Indian rail system was still pretty good in the Pulp era but i'm not so sure about the railways in China or parts of Africa. A train is a good place for an adventure as anyone who has watched films like "Murder On The Orient Express" or "Breakhart Pass" can attest !

[st barbara]

OH Crikey ! "Thats "Breakheart Pass". Well, you probably know the film I mean. Doh !

[Steve Long]

Don't think I've seen that one; have to look it up sometime.

Unfortunately, detailed research about exactly how well the trains run in every country (or even every major country) is a bit beyond the scope of PH, though I do try to indicate where the major rail lines run when I have easy access to that information. More details will have to wait until I have a lot of time (and even more reference sources) to write a big ol' "World of 1935" sourcebook to expand on Chapter Three of PH. :hex:

[st barbara]

Don't think I've seen that one; have to look it up sometime.

Unfortunately, detailed research about exactly how well the trains run in every country (or even every major country) is a bit beyond the scope of PH, though I do try to indicate where the major rail lines run when I have easy access to that information. More details will have to wait until I have a lot of time (and even more reference sources) to write a big ol' "World of 1935" sourcebook to expand on Chapter Three of PH. :hex:
"Breakheart Pass" is a western that stars Charles Bronson as a government agent posing as a killer who is arrested by a sherrif and gets onto a train suppposedly carrying medecine to an isolated fort that is suffering from an epidemic. It turns out to be a conspiracy involving various people on the train (including the State Governor), some outlaws (who are supposed to be in custody at the fort) and an indian chief. People start dying on the trip as they chug through the mountains and it ends with a rousing gunfight, explosions etc. I think that , updated a little, it could make a workable scenario for a pulp game !

[AnotherSkip]

Is there a note on when to throw a right hook rather than draw a gun?

[Steve Long]

Is there a note on when to throw a right hook rather than draw a gun?

Nope. That's a decision that I am definitely leaving to individual players and/or GMs.

[BigJackBrass]

Nope. That's a decision that I am definitely leaving to individual players and/or GMs.

Good heavens, man! Don't you understand that we need rules for these things? How on Earth are we supposed to function without a rule for every possible eventuality? At this rate you'll be suggesting that we think for ourselves, use our judgement and - gasp, I can barely say it - employ some creativity.

[Steve Long]

LOL. I am willing to provide rules for everything only on the condition that everybody uses all of them exactly as written. :eg:

[ghost-angel]

LOL. I am willing to provide rules for everything only on the condition that everybody uses all of them exactly as written. :eg:

Rule 1: Follow rule 2 explicitly.
Rule 2: See rule 1.

[Samurai007]

Any chance we could see a preview of the cover, please...?

[Steve Long]

We'll preview the cover sometime in the next couple of weeks. We just unleashed two last Friday; we gotta space 'em out. ;)

[ahnen]

Steve,

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this...but there really was a Nazi group interested in antiquities/myths/legends/Atlantis/etc. You mentioned it in some of your other materiels.

According to what I saw on the History Channel, this group was like the one in the Indiana Jones movies.

A little more on this group and plot seeds would be nice.

Best regards,
Mark Ahnen
Colorado Springs

[Steve Long]

Thanx for the suggestion, Mark!

Just to be clear: the book's already gone to the printer. At this point it's too late to add anything. However, everyone's still welcome to post other suggestions here on the PH boards, or e-mail 'em to me directly at SteveL@herogames.com.

PH itself doesn't specifically discuss Nazi archaeological activities (or the Ahnenerbe, which I think is the group you're referring to). But I definitely intend to delve into that subject (no pun intended!) more in next year's Pulp Resource Guide or in some other appropriate publication. ;)





P.S.: I note that the person who suggested this has a last name sinisterly similar to the organization in question. Perchance could there be more to this suggestion than meets the eye? Are secret conspiratorial organizations attempting to involve Hero Games in a quest for the Holy Grail or other artifacts of great power? Tune in next week to see what befalls Our Heroes! :) :) :) :)

[Samurai007]

I've heard that the Thule Society was also a Nazi group very interested in mythology and the occult...

http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

[Samurai007]

We'll preview the cover sometime in the next couple of weeks. We just unleashed two last Friday; we gotta space 'em out. ;)
Cool. I hope it has a more interesting cover than the workmanlike Predators, Combat Handbook, and Equipment Guide. Pulps are in part famous for their thrilling covers...

[FenrisUlf]

I've heard that the Thule Society was also a Nazi group very interested in mythology and the occult...

http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

Well, in the Real World (TM) the Thule Society was more of a bunch of pretentious occultist cranks who helped organize the Nazi Party simply to organize some muscle (they needed to defend themselves against the viciously left-wing Spartakists). Most of them were middle-class Germans, all of them sticking a "von" before their last name -- though they did have a few royals and nobles in the group.

However, they were organized by the very nastily right-wing Germanenorden and Reichshammerbund, and those outfits were truly nasty.

If I remember right, the Thule dissolved about the time of the Munich Putsch (when the Communists took over the local government for a week or so); the Reds killed several members and shot quite a few other people as well, when they weren't stealing everything in sight or competeing to invent new and more grandious titles for themselves.

Anything you could ever want on the RW Thule Society can be found in Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke's _Occult Roots of Nazism_.

Of course, in a fictional universe, they could easily be the occult Hidden Masters behind the Nazi rise to power, a blind for the _true_ masters to supply strong-arm goons for Nazi villains, or anything in between.

[st barbara]

The other Nazi organization which had an (apparent) interest in the Occult was the "Ahnenerbe", the Ancestral Research branch of the SS.

[Tclynch]

I'd like to see...two bricks being smashed together....:nonp:

[Tclynch]

Serious question, though...Is the new Pulp Hero book more like The Champions Genre book or more like Fantasy Hero? Sorry I am asking this very late, but my computer has been down for a while.

[Steve Long]

Is the new Pulp Hero book more like The Champions Genre book or more like Fantasy Hero?

I'm not quite sure how you mean that. I see Champions and FH as being very similar, so my answer would be "Yes." ;)

[pinecone]

I'm not quite sure how you mean that. I see Champions and FH as being very similar, so my answer would be "Yes." ;)
I think you should have replied in Code, so that we'd all need decoder rings to read it...:)

[gojira]

I think you should have replied in Code, so that we'd all need decoder rings to read it...:)
You're a cruel, cruel man....

[Duke Bushido]

Just to be clear: the book's already gone to the printer. At this point it's too late to add anything.


That being the case, I guess it's time to ask the really important question....

Did we get the Art Deco spaceship?:D


Duke

[Captain Obvious]

At this time, I would like to see the finished product.

Alas, I told the wife I wouldn't be ordering anything until after the move. So I'll be have to wait a while.

[Steve Long]

Did we get the Art Deco spaceship?

Well, there isn't one that comes with the book (boy would that be a great, but really really expensive, promotion), but there are a couple of Pulp SF-style illos in the book.

Even better, check out our Hero Plus Adventure, Solar Smith And The Sky-Pirates Of Arcturus!, which is a Pulp SF setting and even has some rocketship "illustrations" done by yours truly! ;)

[TheImperialKhan]

Ok Steve here's the big question: how were the sales at GenCon?

By that I mean how did they compare to the other big GenCon releases of the past?

Better? :celebrate

Worse? :weep:

About the same? :)

[Steve Long]

Ok Steve here's the big question: how were the sales at GenCon?

By that I mean how did they compare to the other big GenCon releases of the past?

I consider them pretty strong. They were a little lower than both FH and DC (which were about the same, IIRC), but by no means distressingly lower. I think the future bodes well for a robust PH line, but as always sales of supplements, not just the main book, is the telling factor over time.

[JakSpade]

I consider them pretty strong. They were a little lower than both FH and DC (which were about the same, IIRC), but by no means distressingly lower. I think the future bodes well for a robust PH line, but as always sales of supplements, not just the main book, is the telling factor over time.
Hey, showing up to the Hero Games booth and being "mind controlled" into purchasing several books is good for business... :) Of course my whole mission was to go to GenCon for Pulp Hero, so convincing me to buy something at the Hero Games booth was really easy. :)

Hey, Steve, you sure this ring isn't a mind crontrol ring? :idjit:

*Yes Master*

Jak

[Steve Long]

If it were a mind control ring, I'd give 'em away free to pretty girls. :eg: And to people I don't like. :eek:

[zornwil]

Darn, I forgot the decoder ring, that bugs me. :(