Long Term Endurance Limitation

[prestidigitator]

So, as I recall, Fantasy Hero (and other sources) recommended using Long Term End to power some spells and such. But I don't ever recall having seen a specific Limitation with a value for this.

Has anyone seen such a thing? If not, what do you think is a good value for replacing the normal End cost of a power with Long Term End (I mean straight off the bat; every time you activate the Power, there goes some End it will take you 5/6 hours or a day to Recover)?

Here were my thoughts on the matter:

First, I started off wondering if I could base this on the value of a Side Effect that would Drain End and have a fade rate of once every 6 hours. But for a Power with 60 Active, it would take a Drain: 1d6, Standard Effect (3 AP = 6 End); Delayed Return Rate: once every 6 hours (+5/4) [22 Active] to do use the required amount of "Long Term End." That is at most a -1 Limitation (stretching the Drain to 30 APs and ignoring the part about a predefined amount of damage), which is only the equivalent of an Increased End Cost: x3. That seems like too small a Limitation value. Long Term End takes a LONG time to come back. I'm not sure it is worth as much as, say, x10 End cost, since you aren't blowing your whole load in one shot, but....

What do you think?

[schir1964]

So, as I recall, Fantasy Hero (and other sources) recommended using Long Term End to power some spells and such. But I don't ever recall having seen a specific Limitation with a value for this.
This isn't a limitation. It's an optional rule in Combat section of the 5th Edition. The GM either uses it, or not. It has it own rules separate from standard endurance.

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

This isn't a limitation. It's an optional rule in Combat section of the 5th Edition. The GM either uses it, or not. It has it own rules separate from standard endurance.
I know it is an optional rule. However, if you are using that optional rule, Long Term End is only used if you are using a lot of End constantly for a prolonged duration. If a Power used Long Term End immediately, each time it was used, that sure seems to me to be worth a Limitation.

[schir1964]

I know it is an optional rule. However, if you are using that optional rule, Long Term End is only used if you are using a lot of End constantly for a prolonged duration. If a Power used Long Term End immediately, each time it was used, that sure seems to me to be worth a Limitation.
I'm at a disadvantage since I don't have Fantasy Hero.
But I would presume that they are talking about applying Long Term restrictions on Spells that a character can cast and will have a long term effect. Perhaps it's to help balance out characters who cast a lot of long term effect Spells and would be able to keep them up indefinately under the normal rules. Therefore, the more Spells a character has going, the more tiring it is to keep them going over the long term.

Just A Complete Guess

- Christopher Mullins

[AmadanNaBriona]

I've done what you're suggesting before. I usually consider it a custom limitation Burns Long Term Endurance (-1), to represent really taxing spells that take a long time to recover from. I've also used a Side Effects (spell cost X5 normal END cost, all taken from LTE) as a global limitation for a magic system, to represent situations like the scene from the Belgariad when Belgarath overexerts himself and is laid up for days. LTE works great for these kind of effects. I realize that some folks might think it shoudl be greater than a (-1), but it seems to work well for me.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Incidentally, Burning LTE for spells really helps create a metagame effect that results in the genre convention of mighty mages who are reluctant to unleash their powers. Yes, Merlin can send Uther after Ygraine, but it means he's gonna have to sleep for the next 6 months.

[prestidigitator]

Hmm. Maybe I just hit on it. An average normal has Spd 2, Rec 4. Let's say some average normal named joe were using a Power with 10 AP. If he used it twice a turn, that would cost 2 End. In order for it to cost 2 Long Term End per Turn, he would have to be spending 3 times his Rec per Turn, or 12 End. That's 6 End per use, or equivalent to Increased End Cost: x6, which is a -2 1/2 Limitation. We can reduce it by 1/2 because it only costs Long Term End, not normal End to boot, and the final Limitation is -2.

What do you think of this:

Costs Long Term End (-2)
A Power with this Limitation costs Long Term End rather than normal End. That is, Recovering the End used to activate or maintain this Power takes six hours of rest, or a full day if the character is not at rest. In order to take this Limitation, a Power must already cost End. If the Power is a Constant Power that costs End only to activate, the value of this Limitation is reduced to -1.

[prestidigitator]

Incidentally, Burning LTE for spells really helps create a metagame effect that results in the genre convention of mighty mages who are reluctant to unleash their powers. Yes, Merlin can send Uther after Ygraine, but it means he's gonna have to sleep for the next 6 months.
Exactly. A fitting example, by the way, employing my given name. :)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Works for me. The extra limitation value will certainly contribute to the use of this on "mighty powers" which feels right for a lot of magic systems.