multipower question

[Fathom]

ok, so from reading on the boards, I take it that you can only use one power in a multipower at a time. fred talks about splitting up points in the multipower so each of them works at a different effect level each turn. which is right or am I reading something wrong?

Fathom

[Log-Man]

A multipower has a pool of points that must be divided amongst the active powers. The important factor is the type of slot. An ultra slot dictates that the active points of the power must be dedicated to the slot, even if only a portion of the points are being used. A multi slot allows you to assign points to the slot only as they are needed.
Example:

50 pnt Force Multipower
(ultra slot 1) 10d6 EB
(ultra slot 2) 25/25 FF

With this setup, the hero can either fire the EB or use the FF. Not both, not ever.

50 pnt Force Multipower
(multi slot 1) 10d6 EB
(multi slot 2) 25/25 FF

With this setup, the hero can dedicate 40 points to EB (for 8d6) and 10 points to FF (for 5/5)

The ultra slots are the most common, usually representing different offensive arrays of powers, but the second is perfectly valid. Ultra slots cost AP/10, multi slots cost AP/5. And yes you can mix and match. Does that help? :)

[Fathom]

so if the slots aren't ultras then you can use more than one power at the same time?

Fathom

[Log-Man]

so if the slots aren't ultras then you can use more than one power at the same time?

Fathom
As long as you have enought points in the pool to go around. And just to get more confusing... :)
You can make the multipower pool have more points in it than the active points of the slots. Sometimes you need more powers active at one.
Example:

100 point Force Multipower
slot 1: 10d6 EB
slot 2: 25/25 FF
slot 3: 25" Flight

Each slot has a maximum AP of 50, but the pool is 100. Therefore, the hero can have any two slots active full power at once, just not all three. If they're multislots, he has 100 points to divide any way he wants. He could have 50 in slot 1, 40 in slot 2, and 10 in slot 3. Then, next phase, he could reassign points differently.

[AlHazred]

Really, Multipowers with multi slots were the Framework of choice back in the Champions I-II-III days. It's beautifully flexible to be able to fly, have a force field going, and still pepper the bad guy with shots. You could do it with an Elemental Control but it was much more expensive.

It's also possible to have ultra and multi slots in the same Multipower. Perhaps Captain Amazing's Alien Weapon can keep his Bioenergy Force Field going at the same time that it's shooting Biobolts, but if he wants to use the Amazo Ray (which has Penetrating) then he has to turn all of the device's power to that function.

[Hyper-Man]

so if the slots aren't ultras then you can use more than one power at the same time?

Fathom

FYI,
the term "ultra" originated from the early days of Champions and is a reference to Ultraboy from the Legion of Superheroes. Ultraboy essentially has all the same powers as Superboy (the old version, not the current Teen Titan) with the limitation that he could only use one power at a time; he could be invulnerable, use super speed, fly, use super strength, etc. all seperately.

With regard to the current HERO Multipower:
Fixed slots just mean that you have to dedicate the full active points of the fixed slot power from Multipower Reserve to use that slot. Variable slots can be used at any level as with previous examples. However, your Multipower Reserve can be larger than the active points of any particular slot (fixed or variable).

Example:

100 Multipower Reserve
14m a) Flight 35"
5u b) Force Field 25PD/25ED
3u c) HA 10d6 (-1/2 HTH Attack)
5u d) Invisibility Sight+Hearing Groups (30 active), No Fringe (10 active) Half End (+1/4)
14m e) Force Wall 14PD/14ED (70 active points)
5u f) RKA 3d6+1
14m g) Energy Blast 14d6
slots b,c,d and f are all 50 point fixed "ultra's" but a,e and g are all variable slots that can be used effectively at anywhere between 10 to 70 active points each.

HM

[rjcurrie]

Really, Multipowers with multi slots were the Framework of choice back in the Champions I-II-III days. It's beautifully flexible to be able to fly, have a force field going, and still pepper the bad guy with shots. You could do it with an Elemental Control but it was much more expensive.


Interesting observation, but certainly wrong in the case of the groups I played in where the Elemental Control - Multipower combination was the popular favorite. The EC would contain the movement and defense powers (and other things that you might want to have access to at the same time as your attacks) while the MP would contain the attacks.

[Red Knight]

And then there are Variable Power Pools.

Seems to me that the Multipower with Fixed and Multi slots makes the VPP. useless.. The main effect that most use the VPP for is to have multiple powers going at the same time.

I started playing Champions in the FIrst Edition days and then moved over to the FUZION version. To be honest, this is the first time I have heard of this design for a Multipower.

[AlHazred]

Interesting observation, but certainly wrong in the case of the groups I played in where the Elemental Control - Multipower combination was the popular favorite. The EC would contain the movement and defense powers (and other things that you might want to have access to at the same time as your attacks) while the MP would contain the attacks.
Hey, that was way, way before I became the world-class twink I am today... ;)

[AlHazred]

Seems to me that the Multipower with Fixed and Multi slots makes the VPP. useless.. The main effect that most use the VPP for is to have multiple powers going at the same time.

This is an odd statement, since MP/ECs have a different function than VPPs.

MPs and ECs are groups of fixed powers (for example, Flight, Energy Blast, Force Field, and Telekinesis to pick a popular combo from the old days) while a VPP is essentially a mechanic designed to allow you to have "undesignated points" with which to do a wide range of things.

In fact, many VPPs I've seen are extremely small, 30 points or so, and designed to allow for a large number of minor, odd effects the character can pull off - for example, Secondary Gadgets for a hero in powered armor. In my group there's something of a stigma associated with taking a VPP, the idea being that you got lazy in character creation and decided not to figure out every minor ability or piece of equipment and just bundle them into one power.

[Fathom]

ok, so if I have a 60 point mp reserve and 2 powers, what amount of points do I pay each segment to use the powers? is it the cost of the slot?

Fathom

[gojira]

so if the slots aren't ultras then you can use more than one power at the same time?

Fathom

Did anyone answer this? It's "no," not at all.

If you have a multipower like this:

60 points multipower reserve
12 m 12d6 EB
12 m 6d6 NND EB
12 m FF 30 PD 30 ED
2 u Invisibility
2 u Life Support

You can run ALL of these powers at the same time.

The ultra slot just means that if that slot is active, you MUST put the listed points into it. Invisibility costs 20 points minimum, so I couldn't put less in anyway. But because I bought it as an ultra slot, I don't have the option of putting in more if I want to be invisible to X-rays for some reason. It's 20 points or nothing.

Similar with Life Support. I could put less points into Life Support for the 5 or 10 point version if I had bought it as a multi slot, but I didn't. Neither can I put more points into LS because the ultra slot precludes this.

Running both these powers at the same takes 40 active points. Since I have a 60 point reserve, I have 20 points left over to run the other powers. I could put 10 points into FF, 5 points into EB and 5 points into the NND EB and pepper an enemy with both attacks combined if I wanted.


Sorry if this was explained elsewhere but I thought a more straight forward example was needed.

[gojira]

ok, so if I have a 60 point mp reserve and 2 powers, what amount of points do I pay each segment to use the powers? is it the cost of the slot?

Fathom

You pay the active points.

If the slot is ultra, the cost for the slot is active points divided by 10. So a 24 point cost power will cost 2 points for the slot. But it still costs 24 to run the power when its active, because that's it's active points cost.

Same for multi slots, pay the active point cost. You can put LESS than the maximum in a multi slot if you desire, but then the effect of the power is less too.



Don't confuse active points with END usage. You have to pay END usage too.

END is active points divided 5. So a 60 point multi power running full tilt is going to cost you 12 END each phase, unless you bought reduced endurance on some of those powers.


Confused yet? :D

[Hyper-Man]

Don't confuse active points with END usage. You have to pay END usage too.

END is active points divided 5. So a 60 point multi power running full tilt is going to cost you 12 END each phase, unless you bought reduced endurance on some of those powers.


Confused yet? :DActually according to 5ER those should be 10 and 6. Heroic rules use STR/5 for End calculation but Powers (Spells) still go by activie/10.

HM

[hooligan x]

My computer has been crashing everytime I get IMed while I'm on a website or listening to a CD. I just figured it out... my AOL is bought as Ultra slots!

[gojira]

Actually according to 5ER those should be 10 and 6. Heroic rules use STR/5 for End calculation but Powers (Spells) still go by activie/10.

HM

Are you sure you don't have that reversed? My Hero rules say right here that powers cost "1 END for every 5 Power Points in the Power." Or AP divided by 5. But my revision of the Hero rules is still called "Champions", so maybe this has changed. ;)

[AlHazred]

Are you sure you don't have that reversed? My Hero rules say right here that powers cost "1 END for every 5 Power Points in the Power." Or AP divided by 5. But my revision of the Hero rules is still called "Champions", so maybe this has changed. ;)
I has changed. With the 5th edition Powers cost 1 END per 10 Active Points.

[gojira]

Wow, that's cheap. When I was playing Hero, we had to walk up-hill in the snow before we could pay our END costs. And we were happy that we could, too. You kids are spoiled these days. ;)

Anywhoo, ignore my END numbers, Hyper-man appears to be correct.

[AlHazred]

Wow, that's cheap. When I was playing Hero, we had to walk up-hill in the snow before we could pay our END costs. And we were happy that we could, too. You kids are spoiled these days. ;)

Anywhoo, ignore my END numbers, Hyper-man appears to be correct.
Not only that, but in a superheroic campaign, STR also costs 1 END per 10 Active Points. In a heroic campaign, STR costs 1 END per 5 Active Points, but Powers still only cost 1 per 10.