Body Drains and Stunning

[Tech]

Assuming a hero with no special resistance to killing attacks is hit with a Killing Attack, the hero will be injured, taking Body damage and Stun damage. If Stun is high enough from the Killing Attack, the hero will become Stunned and if Body damage is high enough, mortally injured.

Now, take that same hero who has no Power Defense and he's hit with 30 pts of Body Drain. Assuming he had 15 Body, the hero just became mortally injured but the hero isn't Stunned; the hero also remains at his full Stun points on top of this. This is, of course, unless I've missed a rule somewhere.

Now, I was wondering if anyone's scratched their head pondering this interesting but puzzling situation. Shouldn't the hero who's had massive pts of Body points drained be reeling or even Stunned from the attack?

[Chris Goodwin]

No.

Why would you think that it would?

[Chris Goodwin]

Sorry, that was a totally useless answer.

Stunning, etc., is an artifact of taking Stun damage. A Body Drain does not do Stun damage.

A Body Drain is mechanically different from a Killing Attack, and different by special effects as well.

[Sean Waters]

Assuming a hero with no special resistance to killing attacks is hit with a Killing Attack, the hero will be injured, taking Body damage and Stun damage. If Stun is high enough from the Killing Attack, the hero will become Stunned and if Body damage is high enough, mortally injured.

Now, take that same hero who has no Power Defense and he's hit with 30 pts of Body Drain. Assuming he had 15 Body, the hero just became mortally injured but the hero isn't Stunned; the hero also remains at his full Stun points on top of this. This is, of course, unless I've missed a rule somewhere.

Now, I was wondering if anyone's scratched their head pondering this interesting but puzzling situation. Shouldn't the hero who's had massive pts of Body points drained be reeling or even Stunned from the attack?

I think there is a rule somewhere that requires you to lose 1 STUN every time you lose 1 BODY, but I could be wrong.

This isn't (necessarily) a problem with the rules, but with the justification and sfx of the power: I mean you could get hit with a massive dose of radiation that kills half your cells (mortally wounding you and then some!) but you just don't feel as it has not effected any nerves near the surface of the skin, so the first you know is you cough blood and it all goes dark....

Poisons may have a similar effect: the first you know is major organs stop working.

I would not allow a PC to just buy a big BODY drain and claim it is a radiation blast though: it is one of those unbalanced powers in most campaigns. Generally I'd want it built as a killing attack of some sort.

[Chris Goodwin]

Generally, Stun damage represents pain, shock, etc. There are a few attacks in reality, and many in various forms of fiction, that can kill you without causing those effects.

[Supreme Serpent]

Not sure if there's an official ruling on this, but...

...my group decided to look at drains/transfers as "reducing the stat" not "damage". So we play body drains as not causing collateral stun damage (and therefore not being able to "stun" someone) or causing "bleeding" rules to start. Stun drains therefore aren't able to "stun" someone either, as it's not damage, just reducing the stat.

[Tech]

Sorry, that was a totally useless answer.

Stunning, etc., is an artifact of taking Stun damage. A Body Drain does not do Stun damage.

A Body Drain is mechanically different from a Killing Attack, and different by special effects as well.

Ah, as I am well familiar with and am aware of the differences and nuances of the various powers. It was more of a pitting similar effects, though different, on a hero regardless of how it's actually built. One attack is stopped by resistant defenses and causes Body and Stun damage whereas the other is stopped by Power Defense and, in the case of my example, only caused Body damage. The end result of my example being that the hero lost Body.

However, as Sean Waters stated, you can be injured and not really know the extend of that damage.

[Wanderer]

To reproduce the combined Stun-Body effect, the best thing is to construct Drain that simultaneously affects Stun and Body.

[Lanith]

I agree with SS.
My take on this is that by definition a Drain isn't causing damage to a character, it only reduces something (in this case BODY). A healthy character who has been Drained is totally healthy, but has a particular stat lowered.

15 of 15 BODY before the drain, 5 of 5 BODY after the drain, 15 of 15 BODY after the effects of the Drain fade. Always fully healthy.

[prestidigitator]

Ah, but there is a problem with the argument that a Drain reduces the Body Characteristic rather than doing damage. If that were the case, then a character reduced to 0 Body through Drains alone would die immediately, because they would already be at their negative Body. I believe Drains still have to reduce you to the negative of your normal Body value, which means they really are more like damage (just damage that might return at a different rate than Body is naturally Recovered).

[Silbeg]

I think there is a rule somewhere that requires you to lose 1 STUN every time you lose 1 BODY, but I could be wrong.

I am sure this was already answered, but...

Yes, if you take 1 BODY in damage, you will take at least one STUN. However, being affected by an Adjustment Power is not taking damage, so this effect would not happen (though, as GM, you could house rule it to be so).

Specifically, Adjustment Powers have no effect on Figured Characteristics. As STUN is a Figured Characteristic of BODY, Draining BODY shouldn't have a direct effect on the STUN.

Also, since the rule you are referring to is for damage, the STUN taken can be Recovered (which would not be the case with a BODY Drain.)

[Sean Waters]

I am sure this was already answered, but...

Yes, if you take 1 BODY in damage, you will take at least one STUN. However, being affected by an Adjustment Power is not taking damage, so this effect would not happen (though, as GM, you could house rule it to be so).

Specifically, Adjustment Powers have no effect on Figured Characteristics. As STUN is a Figured Characteristic of BODY, Draining BODY shouldn't have a direct effect on the STUN.

Also, since the rule you are referring to is for damage, the STUN taken can be Recovered (which would not be the case with a BODY Drain.)

My thanks for your elucidation :)

[Silbeg]

My thanks for your elucidation :)

THe pleasure is all mine. :winkgrin: