Dem's the Breaks

[AnotherSkip]

Heres a question for both the main researcher(ie Steve) as well as the others out there.

when/what are the breaks between Western Hero, Victorianna Hero and Pulp Hero? I know they are probably in that order but what sort of general dates are we looking at?
(like 1860-1890 WH, 1890-1920 VH, 1920-1930 PH) or should WWI break that up?




if ya don't get me give me a week and ill rephrase.....

[Wolfjack]

Heres a question for both the main researcher(ie Steve) as well as the others out there.

when/what are the breaks between Western Hero, Victorianna Hero and Pulp Hero? I know they are probably in that order but what sort of general dates are we looking at?
(like 1860-1890 WH, 1890-1920 VH, 1920-1930 PH) or should WWI break that up?

This might help out, a Hero PDF that's up under the "Free Stuff" section:

http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs/HeroUniverse.pdf

[yamamura]

Technically the Victorian age runs from Victoria's coranation (1839 I think) to her death in 1901. After that point you enter into the Edwardian period which tries to shed off some of the Victorian tropes for new ones.

G

[Steve Long]

In terms of my research, the pulp era covers 1920-1939. The pulps themselves were published long before and long after those dates, but those two decades are what gamers tend to think of as "the pulp era," in my experience, and they provide a useful benchmark for defining the task at hand.

Technically, the Victorian Age begins with Queen Victoria's ascension to the throne, and ends with her death (1837-1901). However, there's no way a game product can thoroughly cover 64 years and still be produced in a reasonable time frame with a reasonable amount of effort. For purposes of researching a game product, I would probably focus on 1870 or 1880 until 1901, with only brief amounts of information for 1837 until the chosen starting date.

Western Hero largely overlaps Victorian Hero in terms of timeframe (though the subject matter diverges sufficiently that there's no reasonable way to combine the two, as some fans have suggested, and produce a book that provides a reasonable amount of coverage for both subjects). While many books on the history of the American West start with the Lewis & Clark expedition and go until around 1900, again there's no reasonable way to cover that much time in a game product. The focus in WH will be on 1866-1890, with at most a brief discussion of 1803-1865.

[Peregrine]

Completely tangential - any chance of a Colonial Hero, covering pre-Revolutionary America? (Yet another choice of 'what years to cover'?)

[yamamura]

In terms of my research, the pulp era covers 1920-1939. The pulps themselves were published long before and long after those dates, but those two decades are what gamers tend to think of as "the pulp era," in my experience, and they provide a useful benchmark for defining the task at hand.

Technically, the Victorian Age begins with Queen Victoria's ascension to the throne, and ends with her death (1837-1901). However, there's no way a game product can thoroughly cover 64 years and still be produced in a reasonable time frame with a reasonable amount of effort. For purposes of researching a game product, I would probably focus on 1870 or 1880 until 1901, with only brief amounts of information for 1837 until the chosen starting date.

Western Hero largely overlaps Victorian Hero in terms of timeframe (though the subject matter diverges sufficiently that there's no reasonable way to combine the two, as some fans have suggested, and produce a book that provides a reasonable amount of coverage for both subjects). While many books on the history of the American West start with the Lews & Clark expedition and go until around 1900, again there's no reasonable way to cover that much time in a game product. The focus in WH will be on 1866-1890, with at most a brief discussion of 1803-1865.

1870-1901 sounds good Steve.

G

[Steve Long]

Completely tangential - any chance of a Colonial Hero, covering pre-Revolutionary America? (Yet another choice of 'what years to cover'?)

Well, I won't say that's completely out of the question, but it's unlikely. However, if and when Shelley Mactyre finishes writing Regency Hero for us, that covers roughly 1775-1820. While RH is likely to focus mostly on England/Europe, it certainly won't ignore America.

[Peregrine]

Well, I won't say that's completely out of the question, but it's unlikely. However, if and when Shelley Mactyre finishes writing Regency Hero for us, that covers roughly 1775-1820. While RH is likely to focus mostly on England/Europe, it certainly won't ignore America.

Hm. That would be Revolutionary America. Still, worth looking forward to.

Oh, and one question: is that going to be before or after she writes PRIMUS? :)

[Steve Long]

is that going to be before or after she writes PRIMUS

Before, long before. She has a contract for, and has been working on, RH; neither statement applies to a possible book about PRIMUS.

[Peregrine]

Before, long before. She has a contract for, and has been working on, RH; neither statement applies to a possible book about PRIMUS.

Ah, OK. (Keeping the thread firmly hijacked...)

As I had heard a while back that she is the chosen author for the PRIMUSbook (pending her completion of law school, as I recall), and Regency Hero is a relatively new one on me, I was curious about the relative scheduling. The former (and later scheduled) is of more interest to me as of now, but I am at least curious about the latter as an exposition of a historical period with which I am not familiar (thus the potential to learn something new through my gaming hobby).

[gewing]

Regency Hero, huh?

I foresee a LOT of Highwaymen being written up, as well as former sailors, etc.

I would LOVE it if Peter Francisco were mentioned under the section on America.

[Worldmaker]

The focus in WH will be on 1866-1890, with at most a brief discussion of 1803-1865.

Will there also be a brief discussion on the other end of the cowboy era? That is, 1890 to... oh... 1910 or thereabouts, when the last of the outlaw gangs and rough riders disappeared and "eastern civilization" finally took over the west?

This was the period Butch and Sundance's Wild Bunch were the most active, just to name one group. Its the era of "Big Jake" (a personal favorite) and a handful of other really good westerns.

[Worldmaker]

I foresee a LOT of Highwaymen being written up, as well as former sailors, etc.


Why former? Regency would cover Jack Aubry and Horatio Hornblower... campaign fodder if there ever was any...

[st barbara]

To "Worldmaker" Hell yeah ! Jack Aubrey, Horatio Hoenblower, Nick Ramage, Richard Bolitho ! There's dozens of the blighters running around making life tough for those Frogs at sea. (Oops Forgot Richard Sharpe ! On land too !)

[Steve Long]

Will there also be a brief discussion on the other end of the cowboy era? That is, 1890 to... oh... 1910 or thereabouts, when the last of the outlaw gangs and rough riders disappeared and "eastern civilization" finally took over the west?

If there's any treatment of those years at all, it will be extremely brief.

[Lamrok]

Regency Hero, huh?

I foresee a LOT of Highwaymen being written up, as well as former sailors, etc.

I would LOVE it if Peter Francisco were mentioned under the section on America.

That era covers the time of The Scarlett Pimpernel as well.

[ShelleyCM]

Well, I won't say that's completely out of the question, but it's unlikely. However, if and when Shelley Mactyre finishes writing Regency Hero for us, that covers roughly 1775-1820. While RH is likely to focus mostly on England/Europe, it certainly won't ignore America.

When and if! As if a new law practice or pregnancy ever slowed anyone down! :)

(OK, so I'm a year late to this thread -- it's been a busy one! And yes, I'm still chugging along.)

Shelley

PS: And I've got lots of fodder for "Calamitous Clients," Steve!

[Steve Long]

As if a new law practice or pregnancy ever slowed anyone down!

Excuses, excuses.... ;)

[oryanfactor]

Since we're putting in requests for our favorite "Regency" era heros, Steve....please don't forget to write up a pastiche of Christopher Syn, the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh

oryan

[ShelleyCM]

Since we're putting in requests for our favorite "Regency" era heros, Steve....please don't forget to write up a pastiche of Christopher Syn, the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh

oryan

I have no idea who this is....

Shelley

[Starwolf]

I have no idea who this is....

Shelley

Thats ok so long as you know who Holmes, Moriarity, Watson, and the Ripper are :p

[ShelleyCM]

Thats ok so long as you know who Holmes, Moriarity, Watson, and the Ripper are :p

:) Indeed, I do. But they're long, long after the Regency ends (1820). The London Monster is probably the closest Hanoverian analog to the Ripper -- he was a man who ran around London stabbing women with hat pins and similar implements, often concealed in a bunch of flowers.

Shelley

[Starwolf]

Will there also be a brief discussion on the other end of the cowboy era? That is, 1890 to... oh... 1910 or thereabouts, when the last of the outlaw gangs and rough riders disappeared and "eastern civilization" finally took over the west?

This was the period Butch and Sundance's Wild Bunch were the most active, just to name one group. Its the era of "Big Jake" (a personal favorite) and a handful of other really good westerns.

I hope this gets a smidgeon of coverage, you can't skip completely the death of Wyatt Earp, The Capture of Geronimo, and I believe that Lonesome Dove takes place in this timeframe too, but maybe not...

[freakboy6117]

wasn't syn depicted as a member of an early incarnation of the league of extraordinary gentlemen

[oryanfactor]

Shelly,

The Screcrow of Romney Marsh is Doctor Christopher Syn, a Regency Era fictional character written be Richard Thorndike, first published in 1915. He first appears in 1754, smuggling to avoid British excise tax.

Christopher Syn works by day as the Vicar of Dynmarch, but by night assumes the identity of the Scarecrow, leader of the Devil Riders. This story was adapted by Disney in 1962 as The Scarecrow of Romney March and the title character played by Patrick McGoohan, most famous as the Prisioner #6 in the show of the same name.

Also, this character appears in Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, in a portrait of an earlier league, which also features Natty Bumpo, Fanny Hill and Gulliver.

hope this catches your interest,

oryan

[ShelleyCM]

That explains it! I saw two movies during law school, and the League wasn't one of them. :) (And Disney? Not if I can help it.) The novel sounds fun, though.

Shelley

["V"]

Regency Hero? Victorian Hero?

Have I died and gone to heaven?

At last a rules vehicle for the entire Flashman chronicles!

I salute you in advance

[oryanfactor]

Shelly,

The Disney movie is actually good, beleive it or not. Also, the Scarecrow character appears in both the book and the film LOEG, both as part of a portrait. Either way, it's a heck of a neat character.

oryan

To V, what are the Flashman Chronicles?

["V"]

To V, what are the Flashman Chronicles?

My favourite series of novels. Historical adventure stories that combine astonishing research (I have learned a vast amount of 19th Century history from them - the writer George McDonald Fraser is meticulous in footnoting the people & places he uses) with a light comic touch, all narrated by one of the most engaging rogues in literary history.

Clicky (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=br_ss_hs/002-9987194-7679251?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&keywords=flashman&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go)

The framework is as follows (and it is a measure of the writer's talent that some readers believed this to be a factual account rather than fiction): a series of packets of memoirs were uncovered in a house clearance and they turned out to be the warts & all memoirs of a famous Victorian war hero whose career spanned from the 1840s through to the days prior to World War I by which time he was knighted, a general, holder of the Victoria Cross etc.

The memoirs reveal that he was in fact a bully, coward and charlatan whose heroic reputation was a result of a series of unlucky breaks, misadventures and a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Each novel covers one period in Harry Flashman's life, from his original expulsion from Rugby School (he was the villain in Tom Brown's Schooldays) and his posting to Afghanistan all the way through a variety of campaigns including the Indian Mutiny, the Sikh Wars, the Zulu risings, adventures against the slave trade, encounters with Lincoln, John Brown and other figures of the Old West (he was fleeing panic stricken from the action at LIttle Big Horn too...), mixing it with the pirates of Borneo and the deranged (and entirely historical!) Queen of Madagascar... and far more.

I can't recommend these books highly enough, and this brief and hastily written blurb by no means does them justice.

Oh, he charged (unwillingly) with the Light Brigade too... Damn me, but the Victorian era was hellishly busy for a British officer, what?

[oryanfactor]

I love that sort of stuff of mixing history with dramatic characters. I also wonder if the character of "Funky" Flashman from Secret Society of Super-Villians is a deliberate namesake. They sound like similar characters.

I'm working on a 1930's background history for a character whose adventures will (hopefully) place him in similar situations in his time, although the random historical meet-ups can be overdone. What I'm learning is that real history has more weirdness and odd characters to it than anything I can come up with. Look up Teddy Roosevelt and Bigfoot if you don't beleive me!

oryan

["V"]

I believe you! Such real historical characters who are far stranger than fiction litter the Flashman chronicles.

How about this for an appropriate Victorian Pulp Hero: Former British naval officer who distinguished himself fighting the pirates of the South China Seas to such an extent that he is honoured by the Sultan of Brunei and made Rajah of Borneo on condition that he keeps up the good work.

His crew includes former Naval personnel and individuals such as a half Scot, half Arab adventurer and a blowpipe wielding native of Borneo.

He's a real guy - James Brooke the "White Rajah" of Borneo and a much loved figure out there... fictional adventures wouldn't dare portray the expeditions he led against the pirates as they would seem overdramatised and unlikely.

[oryanfactor]

V,

You remind me that although I've heard of Borneo, and certianly in regards to "The Wild Man of Boreno", that I don't know a fig about Borneo. Time to crack the web and fnd out about this mysterious land......

Your treat for the night is to hear about the "lost tribes" of Andaman Island and North Sentinel Island, who, in 2006, are living as they did in the stone age off the coas of India, primarily because no one can get near them. Every time they fly in a helicopter to check on them, like after the tsunami, naked natives come screaming out of the jungle, throwing spears and grabbing their genitals (nicest way I could think to say it) to frighten off the invaders.

Earth is wierd.

oryan