Questionite Shield Question

[Elbandit]

Howdy!

In Gadets and Gear they provide us with a Questionite Shield multipower. Now the question I have is as follows:

Protection II is defined as an "Armor Power" granting PD and ED. Normally shields only protect agianst attacks from the front, so would the questionite shield only provide this protection to attacks from the front because it was defined as a shield? Or would you need to also add in some disad to represent that?

[Jhamin]

The power requires that you make a skill roll to get the benefit of the Slot. This simulates the "do you swing the shield around in time" bit. If you make the roll, you do. If you fail, you don't. Doesn't matter if they shoot at you from behind or not.

Note that you actually have to have a "Questonite Shield" skill roll before you can even try to make it! This is why you need to give supersolders training to use their shields, otherwise they can't use slots 1, 2 and 8.

In the real world it is probably more complicated than that, but Hero simulates dramatic reality. In Dramatic reality a skilled person can defy logic if it's cool.

[McCoy]

The power requires that you make a skill roll to get the benefit of the Slot. This simulates the "do you swing the shield around in time" bit. If you make the roll, you do. If you fail, you don't. Doesn't matter if they shoot at you from behind or not.

Note that you actually have to have a "Questonite Shield" skill roll before you can even try to make it! This is why you need to give supersolders training to use their shields, otherwise they can't use slots 1, 2 and 8.

In the real world it is probably more complicated than that, but Hero simulates dramatic reality. In Dramatic reality a skilled person can defy logic if it's cool.
Dramatic reality and have to aquire the skill. We need a montage!

[Sean Waters]

Hmm. Assuming that the power has RSR rather than activation, then no problem, really. You need to make a skill roll to activate the power. Attacks from behind will probably get a penalty, attacks at the arm witht he shield on will get a bonus. If you want to be more 'accurate' you could require TWO skill rolls: one a PER roll, the other for 'Shield skill'.

Depends what you are after, really...

[prestidigitator]

Hmm. As far as I can recall even normal use of a shield isn't specifically limited to attacks from any particular direction; it is just assumed you can make use of the shield to make yourself generally harder to hit.

[Fox1]

Hmm. As far as I can recall even normal use of a shield isn't specifically limited to attacks from any particular direction; it is just assumed you can make use of the shield to make yourself generally harder to hit.

That would be correct. That's why it's normally only a bonus to DCV, it's not considered to in the correct placement 100% of the time.

But I have no idea how the Questionite Shield is built, so it may be different. If Long did it, there's no telling what weird limits and/or powers it has.

[prestidigitator]

But I have no idea how the Questionite Shield is built, so it may be different. If Long did it, there's no telling what weird limits and/or powers it has.
You are shameless! Truly, could the same not be said for any one of us, and certainly all of us as a group? :)

[Sean Waters]

Doppler had a really good build for shields (IMO): build it as a force wall with RSR or activation roll, rather than the more traditional armour.

That way it stops attacks completely (including all STUN), unless they are too big in which case the shield is 'knocked aside' and they get through (and the RSR/act roll is your level of skill), so it works kind of like a block (stops all damage) but over a certain level is of only limited use.

[Bloodstone]

Funny you should say that....

one of the power slots on the Questionite Shield MP is designed as a force wall.

[Hawksmoor]

One must remember that the SFX of such a shield is that it is *always* around, you just have to reposition it as it were, and it is all most always possible to abort to a defensive power...like force wall. The only restriction is that you can't usually activate a power more than once a round.

-Although the Rapid Fire manuver makes mince of that argument from time to time.

Hawksmoor

[Sean Waters]

The sfx would be the shield is always there, but if the BODY is exceeded then it is knocked aside (and so ineffective) until you can reposition it (abort to activate defensive power). Which is what Hawksmoor said :)

Rapid fire (or multiple hits from any source) don't require multiple activations even if there are ultiple activation rolls: once it is up, it is up until it is knocked down.

Activation rolls are a bit silly: technically if you have 14- activation armour, you only roll once each phase: if it works it is effective against all attacks, if not it is ineffective against all attacks. Mathematically it makes no odds though how often you roll it, so long as you are consistent - so I always roll for each attack that would hit, depending, as always, on sfx. The key though, is consistency.

[Fox1]

The sfx would be the shield is always there, but if the BODY is exceeded then it is knocked aside (and so ineffective) until you can reposition it (abort to activate defensive power).

Forcewall is a silly build for shields.

It's a half phase to draw a holstered weapon (or even a zero phase if you have Fast Draw, a simple 3 pt. skill), but people want it to take a entire combat action to bring a shield 'knocked aside' back into use- even for characters who constantly hurl the thing about the room and catch it on the rebound ready for instantly for the next task.

Whatever works I guess, but I think this is yet another example of playing the system more than anything else. Something that has become codified in 5th edition under Long, and likely the worse aspect (he does have good aspects) of his influence.

[Sean Waters]

Forcewall is a silly build for shields.

It's a half phase to draw a holstered weapon (or even a zero phase if you have Fast Draw, a simple 3 pt. skill), but people want it to take a entire combat action to bring a shield 'knocked aside' back into use- even for characters who constantly hurl the thing about the room and catch it on the rebound ready for instantly for the next task.

Whatever works I guess, but I think this is yet another example of playing the system more than anything else. Something that has become codified in 5th edition under Long, and likely the worse aspect (he does have good aspects) of his influence.

I disagree. It is only 'knocked aside' if you take a major. I mean you'll want to stick a couple of levels of hardening on there, sure, but the principle seems sound. Anyway, the block/missile deflect mechanic works in a similarly 'silly' way: you can deflect up to a point but not beyond it, and it doesn't have the saving grace of a heavy blow knocking the shield aside: just a high OCV one!

From a 'standing start' you can use the shield faster than you can use a gun: you can abort to use it. It is only in combat that it can be dashed aside, leaving you vulnerable. An experienced shield-wielder will always act last in their phase so they can recover from a blow getting through.

Moreover, and depending on build (i.e. you might want to have a linked FW/missile deflect rather than a multipower), once you have the FW activated you could use the shield to block with, so only high OCV, high DC attacks can get through.

Far from being silly it sounds quite realistic to me.

[Fox1]

I disagree.

I know. Any fan of 'cute' builds would.

I could debate everything in your post point by point-

Some are just silly like "An experienced shield-wielder will always act last in their phase"- yep, that's what we want. A shield build that always gives the initiative to your opponent and calls that "experienced".

Others fall into the "what else did you expect" group- like a high OCV attack by some amazing unearthly power actually avoiding a shield. Wow, one would never have thought that possible. I mean sheilds always get in the way in real life unless the damage is just too high.

And so on.

But frankly, I don't consider it worth a point by point exchange. There are people who LOVE these cutie builds and couldn't play without them.

My post is just to let others know there's a different way of approach the game. It's officially out of favor these days, but it still exists.

[Sean Waters]

I know. Any fan of 'cute' builds would.

I could debate everything in your post point by point-

Some are just silly like "An experienced shield-wielder will always act last in their phase"- yep, that's what we want. A shield build that always gives the initiative to your opponent and calls that "experienced".

Others fall into the "what else did you expect" group- like a high OCV attack by some amazing unearthly power actually avoiding a shield. Wow, one would never have thought that possible. I mean sheilds always get in the way in real life unless the damage is just too high.

And so on.

But frankly, I don't consider it worth a point by point exchange. There are people who LOVE these cutie builds and couldn't play without them.

My post is just to let others know there's a different way of approach the game. It's officially out of favor these days, but it still exists.

:)

Anyone ever mentioned how abrasive your debating technique is?

OK. Your major 'power' is a shield. You don't have to use it defensively, but when you do, reacting to your opponent is the best tactic, and to do that you need to go after your opponent.

The suggested build for the FW shield (if you check) suggested it would include RSR. Make that based on an attack roll and the really skilled OR overwhelmingly powerful fighter can get through. Problem with that?

I assume you favour a straight DCV bonus? Before I comment on the potential problems of just using that approach, am I right?

[Fox1]

:)

Anyone ever mentioned how abrasive your debating technique is?

Yeah.




I assume you favour a straight DCV bonus? Before I comment on the potential problems of just using that approach, am I right?

I believe we've had this debate already in the thread on Captain America's shield.