Tech level concept

[ZootSoot]

My idea was an attempt to define a society not by a single tech level but by specific numbers related to the technology level of five basic areas. these are:

Communications:
0. Pre-linguistic; no true language exists to allow communication between individuals.
1. Face to face communications; "spoken" language has been developed
2. Recorded language ; "writing"
3. Some form of signalling over a distance had been developed
4. Codified laws, political society has been developed
5. Mechanical distance communication (telegraphy) developed
6. Modern communication equivalents
7. Distance communicationm technology inherent (HRRP through implants)
8. Virtual environmments fully developed
9. Universal translator technology available
10. technologically driven telepathy deeloped

Food Production:
0. Scavenging is sole means of sustenance
1. Hunting (or equivalent) is developed
2. Horticulture
3. Settled agriculture
4. Specialized agriculture
5.{ blank}
6. Modern food production equivalent
7. Efficient hydroponics/ synthetic growth environments
8. Rapidly modified food sources (convenience based genetic engineering)
9. Energy conversion technology (photo synthetic implants etc.)
10. "replicator" technology

Transportation:
0. Shank's mare
1. Dometicated riding beasts
2. "Wheeled" technology
4. Sail/rowing water transport
5. Primitive flight
6. Modern transportation
7. Efficient sls space travel
8. Hyperspace technology
9. FTL flight
10. Teleportation

Energy Production:
0. Personal physical strength
1. Domestic animal power
2. Wind/Water power
3. Primitive heat differential tech
4. Steam engines
5. Modern power
6. Fusion power
7. Broadcast power
8.Anti-matter conversion
9. {blank}
10. Zero point power

Manufacturing Technology:
0. Nothing is made
1. Personal simple tools
2. Textiles/ceramics
3. Basic metallurgy
4. Iron age production
5. Pre-industrial
6. Modern
7.Cheap custom manufacturing
8. Personal factories
9. Nano-tech
10 Replicator

Does this look like a useful/workable idea? Any ideas on what could fill in the blanks?

[Mutant for Hire]

Medicine to biotech/bionics is another area.

Weapon technology is another area.

Computer technology also falls into the list.

[Southern Cross]

For level 9 of the Energy Production List,how about using "Stellar Power".After all,our Sun's energy output is equal to four million tons being converted to energy EVERY SECOND.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Medicine to biotech/bionics is another area.

Weapon technology is another area.

Computer technology also falls into the list.

I thought about those,and decided they all really fell into manufacturing or energy.

[Chris Goodwin]

Zoot: Have you looked at GURPS tech levels? The GURPS Lite PDF at http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/gurpslit.pdf has the basic examples, but if you have access to the GURPS Basic Set you can see tech levels broken down the way you have done.

Have you heard of the Kardashev system? Nikolai Kardashev was an an astronomer in the Soviet Union who came up with three (or, technically four if you count type 0) ways of classifying how societies collect and make use of energy:



Type I: Controls the energy of an entire planet. This civilization can control the weather, can prevent earthquakes, and boasts mastery of an energy factor of about 10^16 watts. Though advanced, a Type I civilization still faces danger of extinction by natural disasters such as comet impacts.

Type II: Controls the energy of an entire star. It has the ability to directly mine the sun. This civilization will have explored completely its own star system and will have established a number of colonies in neighboring star systems. The energy factor mastered by a Type II civilization is about 10^26 watts, or a 10 billion-fold increase over that controlled by Type I. A Type II civilization is virtually immune to extinction.

Type III: Controls the energy of an entire galaxy. Such a civilization can manipulate space-time and possesses almost godlike powers. It would be threatened with extinction only by the death of the universe itself (and even this might be avoided). Energy mastery for a Type III civilization marks another 10 billion-fold increase, to a level of 10^36 watts.

(The above was from http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/sf_and_society/70188

Type 0 is, of course, us, generating energy by burning dead plants (wood, fossil fuels).

[Al_Beddow]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
My idea was an attempt to define a society not by a single tech level but by specific numbers related to the technology level of five basic areas. these are:

Communications
Food Production
Transportation
Energy Production
Manufacturing Technology

Does this look like a useful/workable idea? Any ideas on what could fill in the blanks?

I love the catagories you've come up with along with what you've done in each of them. Sounds like a potentially great article for Digital Hero.

[Aroooo]

As I recall, Star Hero did a good job breaking down tech categories/levels - in one of the side bars I think but I'd have to go get the book to verify.

Aroooo

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Originally posted by archer
Have you heard of the Kardashev system? Nikolai Kardashev was an an astronomer in the Soviet Union who came up with three (or, technically four if you count type 0) ways of classifying how societies collect and make use of energy... Ummm... wasn't this the Dyson scale? A Dyson sphere being one of the hallmarks of the 'TL 2' civilization...

[Ron]

I don't have it with me anymore, but Megatraveller referee's companion includes the best technological advancement tables I've seen. There are several tables, including several related to transport that are, after a while, fused in a single one after the development of gravitational control.

[Aroooo]

Come to think of it, GURPS Space also hade some good tech tables. Unfortunately, I don't have my copy handy (its at a friend's house).

Aroooo

[NuSoardGraphite]

I use the GURPS Tech levels. They're a pretty good guideline. They go Tech 1(stone age) to Tech 14(Science is magic). We would currently be considered to be at the beginning of Tech Level 8(early cyberpunk) Typical Space Opera tech level is between 10 and 13. (Babylon-5 tech-10, Star Trek tech-11, Star Wars tech-12, Lensman tech-13[solid state tech notwithstanding])

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite
I use the GURPS Tech levels. They're a pretty good guideline. They go Tech 1(stone age) to Tech 14(Science is magic). We would currently be considered to be at the beginning of Tech Level 8(early cyberpunk) Typical Space Opera tech level is between 10 and 13. (Babylon-5 tech-10, Star Trek tech-11, Star Wars tech-12, Lensman tech-13[solid state tech notwithstanding])

Star Wars is considerably less technologically advanced than Star Trek.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
Star Wars is considerably less technologically advanced than Star Trek.

PLease! Let's not drag the Star Trek vs. Star Wars flamewar to this board...

[allen]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
My idea was an attempt to define a society not by a single tech level but by specific numbers related to the technology level of five basic areas. these are:

Communications:
0. Pre-linguistic; no true language exists to allow communication between individuals.
1. Face to face communications; "spoken" language has been developed
2. Recorded language ; "writing"
.
.
.


Interesting to see spoken language included here... There's a novel by Scott Westerfeld (sp?) titled <i>Fine Prey,</i> which deals with the differences in language between alien species and the evolution of spoken language to deal with the resulting ideological changes. Anyway, that's not a perfect abstract of the novel, but I think if you wanted to take communication tech levels in a sort of different direction, the novel would make good meat for the grinder (so to speak).

[DigitalGolem]

Originally posted by archer
Zoot: Have you looked at GURPS tech levels? The GURPS Lite PDF at http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/gurpslit.pdf has the basic examples, but if you have access to the GURPS Basic Set you can see tech levels broken down the way you have done.
Have you heard of the Kardashev system? Nikolai Kardashev was an an astronomer in the Soviet Union who came up with three (or, technically four if you count type 0) ways of classifying how societies collect and make use of energy:
(The above was from http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/sf_and_society/70188Type 0 is, of course, us, generating energy by burning dead plants (wood, fossil fuels).

I read about an interesting variation of the Kardashev scale. Carl Sagan noted that the K-scale types were spaced too far apart to be of much use. ("too granular" in rpg terms?) However, each was about ten orders of magnitude larger than the one below it, so adding a decimal point and one more digit resulted in a useful log scale, in which each tech level controls ten times the energy of the one before it. The entire Kardashev-Sagan scale runs from 0.0 (no technology) to 3.0 (entire galaxy). A further extrapolation could extend this to include higher K-numbers, with successively more galaxies put to use; 3.9 = a billion galaxies! Earth is currently around a K 0.7, according to Sagan. This roughly corresponds to TL7 in gurps, or in Traveller.

What I'd like to know is; how do you use tech levels in Star Hero? What effects will they have on availability, mass, cost, and/or power level of various types of sci-fi "hardware"? Should there be a defined "tech curve" which determines the effects of advancing technology? For example, if I upgrade a weapon from K1.1 to K1.2 (on the Kardashev-Sagan scale), does it gain one or more damage classes, OCV bonuses, or other advantages? How much will its cost/mass/etc be reduced?

I'd like to hear what approaches others have tried.

thanx heaps,

DGv3.0

[Talon]

Pages 142-3 of Star Hero have tech level breakdowns in Energy Production, Information, Medicine, Transportation, and Weaponry.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
Pages 142-3 of Star Hero have tech level breakdowns in Energy Production, Information, Medicine, Transportation, and Weaponry.

They do, but it seems to suggest the general tech level is inclusive of all these things.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Food Production #5. Might I suggest "Early Eugenics" for #5, to reflect the earliest efforts to breed crops to have the attributes of other crops?