"Kill, My Pretties!"

[Blue]

It's one of those "What is the best way to do this" questions.

I have a player who would like to use his power pool to build robots. I suspect, without researching, that this can be done with Summoning, but I'm open to suggestions.

It's obviously too abusive to put the Perk "Followers" in a pool.

So give me suggestions, if you've got 'em. Thanks.

[CrosshairCollie]

The options I see are Summon with the Slavishly Loyal option and a prolonged activation time to represent construction, and RSR: Inventor/SS:Robotics or the like, or:

Buy the Robots as followers with Variable Power Pools to simulate being able to customize them.

[Tim]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
The options I see are Summon with the Slavishly Loyal option and a prolonged activation time to represent construction, and RSR: Inventor/SS:Robotics or the like, or:

Buy the Robots as followers with Variable Power Pools to simulate being able to customize them.

That sounds like the most elegant use to me. Plus, since it is in a VPP, He can modify the robots between summonings, to have different abilities.

[Killer Shrike]

Summon, but beware; Summon in a VPP is a dangerous combo. Very flexible.....Summon by itself is probably sufficient....

[Spideyguy]

If you own a copy of CKC, you might look at the write-up for Black Harlequin. He's got the exact thing that you're looking for.

[Heroman]

With the Expanded Class for Summon, you should be able to get away with having variety to the Summoned critters too...

-Heroman

[Blue]

Thanks very much!

I finally had some time to read through the Summon ability again. The Amicable advantages make sense. The only problem I had with this method is that you can only get rid of them through dispel or supress. So in order to simulate making a NEW buch of robots he would need a special power to deconstruct the old ones. While this is necessary to keep with the spirit of the mechanics of the Hero System, it doesn't make much logical sense in "special effects" to need a special ability to deconstruct them.

I like the other idea (the VPP) but that will pretty much limit the number of robots (unless they buy duplication). Also, I think what he had in mind was using them as gadgets. So he might be building a weapon this scenario, next scenario he'd be building four robots that can put out fires, scenario after that he'd have one bigger robot that could do something else, then he'd have a suit of exoskeleton armor next time, etc.

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Blue
Thanks very much!

I finally had some time to read through the Summon ability again. The Amicable advantages make sense. The only problem I had with this method is that you can only get rid of them through dispel or supress. So in order to simulate making a NEW buch of robots he would need a special power to deconstruct the old ones. While this is necessary to keep with the spirit of the mechanics of the Hero System, it doesn't make much logical sense in "special effects" to need a special ability to deconstruct them.

I like the other idea (the VPP) but that will pretty much limit the number of robots (unless they buy duplication). Also, I think what he had in mind was using them as gadgets. So he might be building a weapon this scenario, next scenario he'd be building four robots that can put out fires, scenario after that he'd have one bigger robot that could do something else, then he'd have a suit of exoskeleton armor next time, etc.

Hm. Will have to read Summon again. I must have missed that. Personally, if the change in robots only occurs between games, then as a GM I would not worry about having to have Dispel/Supress.

Aroooo

[Killer Shrike]

Hmm... that all sounds like SFX for other effects.

IE, a Dispel vs Fire SFX: Little Robots run around and put the fire out.

Sounds like a gimmick more than a summon to me.

[CrosshairCollie]

Uh, lemme clarify myself here ... I didn't say a VPP of Summons, I said buy Followers with VPPs (essentially Gadget Pools) to customize them.

[Blue]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Uh, lemme clarify myself here ... I didn't say a VPP of Summons, I said buy Followers with VPPs (essentially Gadget Pools) to customize them.

Oh, I got ya. I think it's a cool idea too, using the individual followers' VPP to customize them.

Problems I notice with this are...
--Robots are somewhat "disposable" as summoned creatures. However, as a Follower, that's quite a point investment you'd lose if the follwer got killed. The original character would still be around but greatly crippled by loss of a chunk of points.
--They would be limited to the number of followers originally purchased, unless they spent points out of their individual VPPs to duplicate themselves, which to me is a reasonable way of doing it. So it's not so much a problem, I guess.

Doing it as a follower changes the whole way you treat the subordinate creature. A robot that can be resummoned later is okay to sacrifice now. However, a robot that is, say 20pts of your character, is something you're unlikely to risk very much.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Hmm... that all sounds like SFX for other effects.

IE, a Dispel vs Fire SFX: Little Robots run around and put the fire out.

Sounds like a gimmick more than a summon to me.

So what you are suggesting is that he should build his effect he wants from the pool, then just say the special effect is that he has a robot doing this thing.

It works on some things, but the special effect seems like a real stretch on others. Anything that would require split attention, like telling two robots to take their stun-guns and guard to different ends of the corridor, would cause issues.

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Hmm... that all sounds like SFX for other effects.

IE, a Dispel vs Fire SFX: Little Robots run around and put the fire out.

Sounds like a gimmick more than a summon to me.
From the stuff you have stated thus far, I would have to agree with KS Blue. A VPP with distinctive "Robot" FX sounds promising. Then possibly a seprate summon, to handle the actual ones that stick around for a time.

[Blue]

Originally posted by C_Zeree
From the stuff you have stated thus far, I would have to agree with KS Blue. A VPP with distinctive "Robot" FX sounds promising. Then possibly a seprate summon, to handle the actual ones that stick around for a time.

Robots aren't the only thing that he does though. If I envision the character correctly, think of Artemus Gordon in "Wild Wild West" and all of the odd inventions. One game he's got a suit of steam-powered armor, next scene he's got a big clockwork robot. That's why it kind of works as part of a pool.

Here's what I'm likley going to propose to the player...

Gadget Pool, changeable only between scenes. I'll only require a skill roll if I'm "rushing" him (Such as suddenly he gets a call that he's needed a mile off coast... He could try and manufacture a boat or diving bell, but he'd need a roll and there would be time and active point modifiers). Most of the things in the pool would be typical Foci, except for summoned creatures, which act independantly. Of course he'll likley want the Amicable advantage on any of those. So a guy with, say an 100pt gadget pool (Keep in mind this campaign is weighing in at only 300pts to start), might be able to buy himself a snazzy suit of steam-powered armor with a bit of strength and an attack of some kind, then he could spend a few points on other gadgets or build himself a small set of robots who would search and report back to him. And of course he could build build a few powers with "robot" special effects, such as an entangle that is basically a bunch of little toy robots clinging to his foe, or a "boom-bot", which would be a little robot that rolls up to his opponent and explodes.

Only real adjusting I have to do for this is to wave the method of recouping his points. Am I being too generous or does this sound reasonable?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Blue
So what you are suggesting is that he should build his effect he wants from the pool, then just say the special effect is that he has a robot doing this thing.

It works on some things, but the special effect seems like a real stretch on others. Anything that would require split attention, like telling two robots to take their stun-guns and guard to different ends of the corridor, would cause issues.

Im not suggesting it as the end all be all, Im just pointing out that a lot of the things he may want to do can be handled purely by SFX, and that he may not want to try to force everything into the strictures of only using Summon or only using Followers to model his schtick.

As far as the robot guards, something like this might do the trick (dont have book handy, so its a hipshot) without needing to actually buy Robots as followers or Summon Robots:

Robotic Hall Monitors of DOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!! (TM):
EB NND Cone, Nonselective, *Uncontrolled, Trigger: Conscious Enemy detected, 2 *Continuing Fuel Charges (5 Minutes), OIF Bulky: "Robotic Minions"; SFX: 2 Robotic Guards are deployed, watching 2 different halways; when one sees Enemies, it activates and opens fire with a hail of Stun blasts, strafing the area in front of it until it is destroyed, doesnt detect anymore conscious enemies or runs out of battery juice.

*Continuing Charges & Uncontrolled automatically terminated by any attack that targets Robots or technology specifically, including Mental Powers vs. Machine Minds. (as per rules requiring Continuing Charges and Uncontrolled to have a defined shut-off)

Note: As an OIF, the Robots can be targeted at -2 OCV. They are roughly Man-sized or slightly smaller, but have vacuumcleaner-like casters, allowing them to be pushed into place. When they are in place, I recommend a simple method treatment of DCV 3 at range or DCV 0 to adjacent hexes for targeting them.

Technically they need thier Triggers reset after they are set off, but a lenient GM might wave that as part of Uncontrolled in favor of common sense.

Alternately, the PC could have an _actual_ robot servitor whos duties included maintaining triggers and such like; Id probably buy such a servitor as a small variant duplication with no recombination ;)

[Killer Shrike]

I put it into HD; again, not sure its 100% kosher, but here is a cleaner version:

<table><tr> <td><b><i>Hall Monitors of DOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!! (TM): </i></b>Energy Blast 4d6 (vs. ED), Trigger (Conscious Enemies Detected) (+1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Area Of Effect Nonselective Target (12" Cone; +3/4), No Normal Defense (Standard; +1) (70 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), No Range (-1/2), 2 Continuing Fuel Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/4) [<b>Notes:</b> SFX: 2 Robotic Guards are deployed, watching 2 different hallways; when one sees Enemies, it activates and opens fire with a hail of Stun blasts, strafing the area in front of it until it is destroyed, doesnt detect anymore conscious enemies or runs out of battery juice (Fuel).

Continuing Charges & Uncontrolled automatically terminated by any attack that targets Robots or technology specifically, including Mental Powers vs. Machine Minds.]&#160;</td> </tr></table>

[Blue]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Robotic Hall Monitors of DOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!! (TM)

Oh sure, trademark it so I can't use it! :)
That's pretty cool.

Whatever we decide on, I'm trying to make it as rules friendly during the game as possible, even if it's calculation intensive now. With pools, there's always math; that's the nature of the mechanical beast. I'm just hoping to make it simple for the player to come up with his creations somewhat on-the-fly.

Either way it's going to be interesting.

I'm going to bring your suggestion to the table along wih the others.

Thanks again for the help, one and all.

[Killer Shrike]

Thats what we are here for; without the boards some of us might be left with nothing better to do but actual work :cool:

[CrosshairCollie]

Wait, where does it say that the points for a dead follower are gone for good? It's not Duplication ... if my Vehicle gets totalled, I can repair or rebuild it, why couldn't he rebuild his robots?

I mean, Batman replaced two Robins ...

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Wait, where does it say that the points for a dead follower are gone for good? It's not Duplication ... if my Vehicle gets totalled, I can repair or rebuild it, why couldn't he rebuild his robots?

I mean, Batman replaced two Robins ...
FREd Page 58 1st column last para, 2nd column first para.

Loose the points OR replace follower after long time/much roleplaying at the GMs option

[Blue]

Thank you Shrike. Your initials aren't KS for nothing.

[Killer Shrike]

:D

[CrosshairCollie]

Well, it still works then, since it would, logically, take a while to rebuild your robots. :)

[zornwil]

For what it's worth, I agree with building some automoton followers with VPPs. This seems less kludgy than messing with Summon, where you have to deal with the fact the robots are hanging around and can be used throughout the adventure, they really aren't "summoned" in the game sense (even with "Arrives Under Own Power" because they are generally going to be logically available). There's definitely room to allow the follower to be rebuilt afterwards if damaged into disuse during the adventure.

I'd probably go instead though with a single follower with duplication and ask the player to build along those lines (or if you are the player I suggest it anyway), reason being that it will be a tighter concept and less prone to abuse.

Finally, along these lines, if in fact the player really wants to use the robots most often and generally with more points much of the time, then make the scientist the follower, even if he is the decision maker.

[Killer Shrike]

Hehe. This post has inspired me. Anyone remember the crappy old 80's song Mr. Roboto?

Oh yes.

There will be a Mr. Roboto. That's right. With parts made in Japan its Mr. Roboto Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto!

My evil plan to create the cheesiest character these boards have ever seen will soon grow into fruition. Will the heroes be able to withstand the terrible kitch which is Mr. Roboto?

[lemming]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Will the heroes be able to withstand the terrible kitch which is Mr. Roboto?
Maybe they'll be forced to Sail Away? :D

[Killer Shrike]

Check it out; found this on the net.

[Edit} Nope, board wont let me load it. Apparantly Ben installed the 'Good Taste Filter' -- so no STYX for you!

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by lemming
Maybe they'll be forced to Sail Away? :D
ENYA is a kind and enlightened alien being, and I refuse to participate in your ignorant attempts to discredit her "beautiful haunting melodies". Now, I must return to Painting the Sky with Stars......

[Killer Shrike]

1 last try.....

[Tim]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
ENYA is a kind and enlightened alien being, and I refuse to participate in your ignorant attempts to discredit her "beautiful haunting melodies". Now, I must return to Painting the Sky with Stars......

I think he was refering to the Styx song "Come Sail Away."

TimS.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
ENYA is a kind and enlightened alien being, and I refuse to participate in your ignorant attempts to discredit her "beautiful haunting melodies". Now, I must return to Painting the Sky with Stars......
I was referring to Styx's "Come Sail Away". I wouldn't discredit Enya in such a fashion. that's for a different topic. :D

[Killer Shrike]

Ah, I see. Well, all I can say in my defense is that my good sense filters prevented me from ever liking STYX. And thank gawd for that, because thats like Battery Acid injected directly into the frontcipital lobe.

{Killer Shrike reflexively does 'The Robot' as Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto runs through his head}

GAH! See? Its contagious!!!!! I.....CANT.........STOP!

[C_Zeree]

See, I gave KS the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was running with the joke of "Good Taste Filtering." I figured he took the "Sailnging Away" of the Styx, and blending it with Enya was planned some masterful joke. Still I found it all amazingly funny. :D

Back on topic: KS that was a great idea with the EB fitting in with Blue's FX. Showing that some are quite proficient thinking of ingeneous ways of using the HERO rules.

[Killer Shrike]

Wow. All these unfettered accolades...damn! That means my karmic debt is growing! At this rate, Ill soon experience a terrible catastrophe to balance the scales! No one stand too close!



Seriously, thanx. Blue's starting thread actually struck me as a neat concept, and Im only half-kidding about Mr. Roboto. ;)