Is my campaign too low-powered? Too high-powered?

[J. Chamberlin]

Hiya.

I just picked up Hero System a few months ago, and before that I was playing D&D. The transition has been welcomed, but theres a few things I still get hung up on.

For instance:
The few characters I've made so far have a SPD from 3 - 4, including one Zorro-type character I made; now, in D&D having 4 attacks per round would be pretty badass, but the one time I actually got to play Hero system the other character's SPD was around 6-7.
If I were to run a Standard Power (200 pt +150 disads) Campaign, what should the SPD levels of the characters look like? How fast is average, and how fast is fast?

Another problem I have is with CSLs and PSLs; how many is too many? I figure these are the things that make a character "super" with his sword/crossbow/laser gun/whatever, so I generally spend 15 - 30 points on them, depending on how much of a fighter-type I'm building. Too much?

[Fox1]

It's all done to taste. Really, it is. If SPD 2 is typical and SPD 4 is the highest SPD anyone has in your game, that's the standard.

Rather simple isn't it?

Same thing with skill levels. It's all a matter of finding a balance that you like.


If you're building it in relationship to published HERO products, things are more complex as you need base things on what you find in those.

[fbdaury]

Well, my current character in the Global Guardians, Avro, is a weapons master with bow and arrows/trick arrows. He has 3 ranged combat levels, 4 bow skill levels and a 8OCV to start. He also has 5PSLs vs. Range, and 5 PSLs vs. to hit penalties. So, all in all, he's fairly bad@ss with a bow. I've never had a character with that high an OCV with their main attack before, it's kinda neat really. Oh, he has a 5 SPD but can autofire upto 5 shots with normal arrows- Zen Archery and all.

[Mike W]

Power level is relative. Part of it depends on what you are running. 4 color super heroes, street level supers, cosmic supers, or heroic level anything all have different power levels. The main thing is to keep everything withing 4 degrees of separation(so CVs are 5-9, DC 8-12, and so on), whatever the numbers actually are. As long as you keep the overwhelming majority within a range of 4 magnatudes you should be ok.

[Vondy]

The only thing that matters is that you and your players are happy with it. You can always adjust the published materials to taste.

[C--]

Average superheroes tend to average between 5 and 7 Speed, and 8 to 11 OCV. But again, like everyone says, whatever your group feels comfortable with is the right way to play it. We usually average a little higher on the Speed than other groups, but that doesn't make us any more "right" than other groups. We usually don't bother with PSLs--if you're going to buy more than one type of PSL, it's usually cheaper to just buy regular CSLs.

[Lord Liaden]

When designing characters for a given Champions campaign, here are a few rough guidelines I tend to follow in my games. I hope they're of some use to you:

Among superheroes in a team, the range of Dexterity between lowest and highest DEX characters should be no more than 10, e.g. DEX 20 - 30;

Most character Speeds should be within 2 points of each other, such as SPD 4 - 6;

Maximum OCV for all characters' attacks, accounting for DEX and Skill Levels, should be within 2 points of each other, 3 at the most;

Total Defense (natural + Armor + Force Field etc.) should be between 1.5 and 2.5 times the Damage Class of the average attack in the campaign. So, if the average attack is 10d6, Defenses should run between 15 and 25, with most centering around 20;

Characters hit with the equivalent of their own largest attack should be able to absorb a number of consecutive hits equivalent to 1/3 - 1/2 their possible Phases, without taking a Recovery, before being Knocked Out. For example, a SPD 6 character with a 10d6 attack should be able to take 2 or 3 10D6 hits without going down;

I tend to trade off DEX, SPD and CV against Defense and Attack size. For example, a character with the lowest DEX, SPD and OCV will usually also have the highest DC attack and Defenses.

[WhammeWhamme]

A campaign cannot be 'too low-powered' OR 'too high-powered', except as far as an individual's tastes go.
(sorry, that wasn't very useful)

Thinking of Speed as being 'attacks' in D&D is probably the wrong tack. 4 Speed is twice as many actions as a feeble old grandmother gets. So it's more like making two attacks in a round, not four.

Yeah. A speed 4 character is about level 6, speed 6 level 10, speed 8 level 16. That's about right for a pure 'fighting skill' warrior. Speed 8 IS legendary, nigh-on-ridiculous badass for most games.

Heroic games would thus be relatively low level, with only the best combatants getting speed 4 (so 150pt games would be levels 4-8, or thereabouts, in a lot of ways).

A superheroic game (200+150) would often be in the 'level 13 - 18' range, comparatively. Characters ARE that awesome, if not more so. And the guys who are really good at being really fast (it's their superpower, of they're just totally asskicking in combat) could go to 8 (or 7).

And they would have awesome special abilities too. Flight is dime a dozen. Cool stuff abounds.

See... "normal characteristic maximum" is actually fairly low for the kinds of characters who get to have adventures. Well, the powerful ones at least. A lot of powerful characters aren't even human, and those who are are far from normal.


As for skill levels - 30 points is quite a lot. It's definately enough to show you're really good with fighting, beyond your natural talent. But natural talent (dexterity) has it's place too. Most fictional characters who fight really well have speed and grace in their movements, and are well coordinated - that's DEX.

Most 350 games that I've seen tend to have OCV and DCV in the 9 to 11 range (so DEX 23 with a few levels, or a slightly higher DEX), and speeds of 5-6. A lot of people favour games a bit higher than that, and some a bit lower - think of that as having more people who happen to wizards or rogues or whatever and thus not being quite as good in out and out fighting, but better with either 'cool stuff' or 'skilled stuff'.

Hope that helps. I may have gone overboard on the D&D references...

[Mister E]

The Rule of X is a good way to go.

This think this was inspired by the Fusion system, and can be found on the sidebar of the "Champions" book, pg 131.

Basically, you come up with a formula, where you add up elements of a character, and the total has to be at, or below, X.

For instance:

DC's in hardest hitting attack
(plus) OCV with same attack
(plus) SPD
(Equals) Offensive X

Active Points in most powerful defense, divided by 5
(plus) highest DCV
(plus) SPD
(equals) Defensive X

Offensive X
(plus) Defensive X
(equals) Rule of X

Using the Rule of X allows for lots of character creation freedom... but it can be a bitch to figure for players. It is an uber-fair system, and it tends to reward moderation.

I use the averages for Standard Superheroes, given on page 15 of "HERO5ed":

10 DC's
10 OCV
6 SPD
for a Off-X of 26

20/10 DEF/rDEF is roughly worth 25 points... divided by 5... is 5
but you figure this twice for Physical and Energy DEF... for a score of 10
10 DCV
6 SPD
for a Def-X of 26

My total Rule of X is thus 52

I have found that the higher the average SPD, the better... because then differences in SPD aren't as crippling or overpowering.

[Worldmaker]

Well, my current character in the Global Guardians, Avro, is a weapons master with bow and arrows/trick arrows. He has 3 ranged combat levels, 4 bow skill levels and a 8OCV to start. He also has 5PSLs vs. Range, and 5 PSLs vs. to hit penalties. So, all in all, he's fairly bad@ss with a bow. I've never had a character with that high an OCV with their main attack before, it's kinda neat really. Oh, he has a 5 SPD but can autofire upto 5 shots with normal arrows- Zen Archery and all.


He's also the Green Arrow/Hawkeye/Ultimate Archer of the GGU, so these kinds of power levels are to be expected. LOL.

[Fox1]

Just to show you how much room there is for different ways of playing the same game...


Among superheroes in a team, the range of Dexterity between lowest and highest DEX characters should be no more than 10, e.g. DEX 20 - 30;

My Dex range is nearly 20 points in the worse case. 15 is typical.




Most character Speeds should be within 2 points of each other, such as SPD 4 - 6;

I typically see 3 points in SPD difference. It can be as high as 6.




Maximum OCV for all characters' attacks, accounting for DEX and Skill Levels, should be within 2 points of each other, 3 at the most;

A typical difference here is up to 7.





Total Defense (natural + Armor + Force Field etc.) should be between 1.5 and 2.5 times the Damage Class of the average attack in the campaign. So, if the average attack is 10d6, Defenses should run between 15 and 25, with most centering around 20;

My defense average 2.8 times the defense.




Characters hit with the equivalent of their own largest attack should be able to absorb a number of consecutive hits equivalent to 1/3 - 1/2 their possible Phases, without taking a Recovery, before being Knocked Out. For example, a SPD 6 character with a 10d6 attack should be able to take 2 or 3 10D6 hits without going down;

I care not about the character's SPD for such things, just the number of hits.

It varies greatly. Typical is 3 hits of their own power, but bricks go higher- up to 4 or 5.




I tend to trade off DEX, SPD and CV against Defense and Attack size. For example, a character with the lowest DEX, SPD and OCV will usually also have the highest DC attack and Defenses.

True in general in my campaign.


Other items- average SPD is a 4. Typical Superhero Dex starts at an 18 and goes up from there (18 or 20 is the most common). Damage averages around 14 dice for an X-Men style game, 9 dice for x-students type, 16+ for an Avenger's type. The typical superhero has two CSL, 4 if he's exceptionally skilled (or making up for a lower than normal DEX), 6 is the top end period.



I also don't care about characters point totals, some characters are as much as 600 points apart. Character niche is more important than anything.


It takes some practice to be able to run a game similar to mine. And rather tight control on the character design (to maintain niche, which maintains balance). Some things that work in 'hard averages' games like Lord Liaden's won't work in mine- but then I able to do things that are flatly impossible in his.

Such is the trade-offs and options contained in HERO System.

[Tech]

Cool, Fox1. My campaign comes out to..


Just to show you how much room there is for different ways of playing the same game...

My Dex range is nearly 20 points in the worse case. 15 is typical.

Dex range in supergroups has ranged from only 3 pts difference to an incredible 13 pts difference for one supergroup (Dex 18 to Dex 31)



I typically see 3 points in SPD difference. It can be as high as 6.

Generally, we have a 1 or 2 pt SPD difference, although the supergroup I mentioned above has the biggest difference, SPD 5 to SPD 10.



A typical difference here is up to 7.

OCV differences aren't so high here, generally 1 or 2 pts, though with levels it can range up to 4 pts (OCV 8 to OCV 12). One hero can go up to OCV 16 in a special situation.


My defense average 2.8 times the defense.

Average defense runs generally 2.0 to 2.5 times the defense for me.


I care not about the character's SPD for such things, just the number of hits. It varies greatly. Typical is 3 hits of their own power, but bricks go higher- up to 4 or 5.

Varies on the hero concept in my campaign. It'd be hard to give a typical idea of how many hits a hero could take before going unconscious.

The point it, it takes time to figure out what a good idea is for your campaign. If you find something doesn't work, change it. When I think about introducing something to the campaign, I alert the players beforehand about the new change and give each player a handout indicating what the addition is. I let them know that for this episode it will be tested. Sometimes I test it by myself although that's a little harder to be objective. It also depends on the type of campaign you're running whether light-hearted, dark, in-between or whatever.

[JmOz]

In the game I get to play in

Speed ranges from 4-8 (The speedster has 8, My archer and his brother a energy projecting thief have 6, are two bricks are 4, 5 and the mentalist is 5)

OCV go from 8-15 (My archer is at 15)

Dex ranges from 20-35 (Speedster is at 35, next highest are the two brothers at 29)

[Trebuchet]

Our group ranges from 4 - 9 SPD (average 5.5); 20 - 43 DEX (average 24); 8 - 14 CV (average 11); 10 - 15 DC (average 12); 12 - 33 PD (average 23). But most of our characters are now around 400 points with XP, so we're not really typical of starting 350 point characters.

An relatively narrow range between these factors is easiest when you're just getting started, but don't feel locked into numbers like that once you and your players have some experience with the system. Wider ranges, such as ours, can be very interesting once you've got a handle on how the system works. You can leave out a lot of interesting character concepts with ultra strict ranges for Characteristics. Batman doesn't hit as hard as Superman or bounce tank shells from his chest, but I don't think many people would call him useless to the Justice League. :)

[st barbara]

Is it too low powered or too high powered ? Ask your players. Really I think that the campaign should be tailored to a level that you and your players are comfortable with. You also need to remember that the campaign level will increase as the players earn EP's and spend them on their characters !

[J. Chamberlin]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I guess this is one of those things that gets easier the more you do it and no other way.

The math helps though... not as much as the D&D analogies, but like I said, thanks for the help.

j

[CBikle]

Generally, I try to keep the SPD scores within 2 pts. of each other with 4 being the minimum and 7 being the max.

I generally don't allow players that are new to HERO, to have a character with a speed greater than 5.