Team of second rate Villains

[fbdaury]

Who, working together could be extremely dangerous. So far I have Whiplash and Boomerang from Marvel and am seeking other suggestions from just about anywhere really. I'm thinking the moniker "The Deadly Dozen", though obviously not all of them would show up all the time. My version of Whiplash, based on the late 80's Deluxe OHTMU is base on 490 points because I tried to actually fully flech him out and utilized his Marvel History but with relevent CU/Other elements that I thought would work in my own world.

[Supreme Serpent]

I think a lot of existing villain teams already meet this criteria - a lot of the guys in permanent/semi permanent teams wouldn't be too hot on their own. Most of the Serpent Society, for example.

Teamwork's key to groups like this. If they work really well together and are good at protecting each other and supporting each other's moves, they can be devastating. If they don't work well together, they'll be tripping over each other, fouling up each other's attacks, electric guy creams ice guy, etc.

As far as Marvel minor villains go: Whiplash/Blacklash and Boomerang are good starts.

I think one of the criteria could be: "Would you overlook this person if you were forming a new 'Masters of Evil' ?" ;)

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for The Grizzly, the guy with the mechanical bear suit. Stilt-Man's almost a must for a group like this. Mr. Fear working with a team could be very well used. Perhaps the Hypno-Hustler? :snicker:

[fbdaury]

I think a lot of existing villain teams already meet this criteria - a lot of the guys in permanent/semi permanent teams wouldn't be too hot on their own. Most of the Serpent Society, for example.

Teamwork's key to groups like this. If they work really well together and are good at protecting each other and supporting each other's moves, they can be devastating. If they don't work well together, they'll be tripping over each other, fouling up each other's attacks, electric guy creams ice guy, etc.

As far as Marvel minor villains go: Whiplash/Blacklash and Boomerang are good starts.

I think one of the criteria could be: "Would you overlook this person if you were forming a new 'Masters of Evil' ?" ;)

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for The Grizzly, the guy with the mechanical bear suit. Stilt-Man's almost a must for a group like this. Mr. Fear working with a team could be very well used. Perhaps the Hypno-Hustler? :snicker:

Hell, the Masters of Evil had the Wrecking Crew in it!
May do the Grizzly and Mr. Fear, but the Stilt Man would be too difficult to make him useful even to a team.

[Supreme Serpent]

Hell, the Masters of Evil had the Wrecking Crew in it!
May do the Grizzly and Mr. Fear, but the Stilt Man would be too difficult to make him useful even to a team.

Are you kidding? You diss Stilt Man yet have no criticism of the Hypno Hustler? Stilt Man on a team would ROCK! Hero occupied fighting Grizzly, when WHAM - hydraulic ram to the back. Mr. Fear pegs someone, then Stilt Man grabs them and goes to full extension - nasty fear of heights kicks in.

[fbdaury]

Are you kidding? You diss Stilt Man yet have no criticism of the Hypno Hustler? Stilt Man on a team would ROCK! Hero occupied fighting Grizzly, when WHAM - hydraulic ram to the back. Mr. Fear pegs someone, then Stilt Man grabs them and goes to full extension - nasty fear of heights kicks in.


Oh no! The Hypno-Hustler is super lame and cannot be fixed. But Stilt Man is hard to use in a team I would think. Maybe if he still had his admantium stilts?

[Lethosos]

Oddly enough... go look at Vibora Bay's Cirque Sinister. MinMax would be really useful to a team like this--if she wasn't so cookoo all the time... :D

[fbdaury]

Well, after looking through the most recent Black Panther and the OHTMU, I was thinking that Batroc the Leaper would be decent too.

[Eyendasky80]

There was this mini-series from Brian K. Vaughn called The Hood which featured some villains paid to work together. I thought they were awesome. The book was awesome. GO READ THE HOOD!!! Go now.

Anyway, Constrictor, Jack-O-Lantern and someone else I can't recall. They would be good for a team like this. The whole book would be good to get a feel of how Super-Villains interact and their mentality. You should check it out.

[Battlestaff]

You want some interesting villains, what about The Rogues from The Flash? Captain Cold, Heatwave, Pied Piper, Mirror Master, Captain Boomerang II, etc. All good villains. And all work well together.

[aylwin13]

How about Marvel's Porcupine. I remember seeing him when I was a kid. He was on a villain team along the first Eel, the Plantman, the Scarecrow, and the Unicorn. Any of them would work, I think.

[Ura-Maru]

Zaran the weapon master. Even for the 70’s, his choice of costume was . . . odd. Black leather hood that covered his head and shoulders, some misc. straps around his torso, a leather posing pouch, and big, clunky boots. Oh, and he had a bright red topknot thing popping out of a little hole on the top of his head.

In short, the sort of thing an iron age villainess with particularly low self esteem might come up with. Or maybe one of the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ raiders from The Road Warrior.

Had a spear/halberdy thing with a blowgun hidden inside it. And a few other lame weapons. Was a lame Cap villain for a while, then a lame Shang Chi villain for a bit. Last I heard, he got his ass kicked by Nomad on a golf course, but that was a long time ago. It’s possible he’s gotten his ass kicked by any number of lower and lower powered heroes since then.

Actually, Shang Chi had a load of moderately lame villains, (Though few as lame a Zaran) at least some of whom would be salvageable. What’s Shen Keui up to these days? He’d need to either keep his shirt on, or get a tattoo update, though. Hard to fear a guy who has an old ladies’ wallpaper tattooed on his chest.

On a more potentially redeemable note, did the Silver Samurai ever get a ‘kewl’ update? He had an ok schick and a pretty cool power, but never seemed to gel together.

(Any knowledge of the Marvel Universe I might have is at least ten years out of date, though)
--
“And this time, you would have won . . .”

[Vanguard00]

Some free-thought-association-type stuff here:

Is Killer Shrike still active? He'd be cool. How 'bout Tiger Shark? Eel? Will o' Wisp? Crossfire? Brothers Grimm? Constrictor? Grey Gargoyle? Dragon Man? Jack O'Lantern? Klaw? Hyde? Jester? Mauler? Unicorn? Torpedo?

Okay, some might be dead or inactive, but they were the 'B-List'ers I came up (besides Wrecking Crew...you gotta have them).

[Vanguard00]

Zaran the weapon master.
Zaran was good as part of Batroc's Brigade, featuring Batroc, Machete and Zaran. Potentially a good team of B-Listers for the more 'street' level heroes (or the GLA).

[fbdaury]

Definites so far:
Whiplash
Boomerang
Mentallo
Batroc the Leaper
Possibles:
Melter
The Living Laser
Killer Shrike
Jack O' Lantern

[Enforcer84]

I tend to know more Marvel than DC, but...how about:

The Killer Croc (Low level brick for martial artists to fight)
Fire Bug (flame throwing battle suit)
Slyde (Marvel, Frictionless Speedster suit)
Enforcer (Dead, but was someting of a cool gun wielding criminal who fought werewolves)
The Tarantula (Martial artist withpoisoned blades in his boots)
You could give someome the Ringer Battlesuit
the Trapmaster (formerly Paste Pot Pete)
The Scorpion? (but, he's insane)

[GrayPumpkin]

Killer Moth

[Twilight]

Zaran was good as part of Batroc's Brigade, featuring Batroc, Machete and Zaran. Potentially a good team of B-Listers for the more 'street' level heroes (or the GLA).

Also Zaran was hardly lame, being a master of every hand to hand weapon there was [hence the weapon master] and I belive he actually defeated Shang Chi when they first met. That was when he was working for Fu Manchu as his head assassin. Lame costume, maybe, lame character, hardly.

As for Shen Keui, if that refers to the Cat [as I belive he's called] he's hardly a lame villian either. After all he's a martial artist on the same level Shang Chi is [might've also defeated him in fact] and actually defeated Iron Fist back in the Heroes for Hire series back in the 90's.

Just because thier second stringers, doesn't mean they're not impressive.

[fbdaury]

I tend to know more Marvel than DC, but...how about:


The Scorpion? (but, he's insane)
He's worse than insane now, he's the new Venom host...

[Enforcer84]

He's worse than insane now, he's the new Venom host...
That is worse than insane.

[Southern Cross]

What sort of drugs was the writer on?

[Log-Man]

Ahem.

Stilt-Man would never be on a team of second rate villains.

He's too good for them.

Thank you.

[Daermon]

I nominate the Human Fly.

He's not really a villain. But he is pretty pathetic.

[Rick R Mortis]

How about... The Mechnaic! (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscomic/mechanic.html) He's a canon Marvel chracter. Well, sorta.

But then, you are talking to the guy who wanted to make a vbillain team out of some of the lamers from European Enemies so...

Rick R.

[SKJAM!]

How continuity-accurate do you want to be? If "not very", then Mastermind and Toad of the old Brotherhood of Evil Mutants come to mind. Mastermind has one heck of a useful/nasty power, but the fact that he doesn't have any other powers, is a little unimaginative, and tends to step out into the open so that people can figure out they're being illusioned has kept him in the ranks of second banana villains. Toad you'll probably want to use the upgraded version of with the nasty tongue.

If you don't mind doing a lot of the work yourself, there's some anime /manga characters that might be worthwhile putting in the mix.

Ooh, picked up the Seven Soldiers of Victory Archive Edition book, and there's a couple of villains in there that could be adapted for such a group: The Needle (tall, excessively skinny fellow with a needle gun) and the Hopper (uses a overpowered pogo stick, but also has strong legs all on his own.)

[Scifi_Toughguy]

He's worse than insane now, he's the new Venom host...
Who, what, where?

[fbdaury]

Who, what, where?


Isn't that supposed to be "Who did the what now?
New Spidey Marvel Knights title Scorpion apparently became the new Venom host so now he knows who Spidey is as well.

[fbdaury]

How continuity-accurate do you want to be? If "not very", then Mastermind and Toad of the old Brotherhood of Evil Mutants come to mind. Mastermind has one heck of a useful/nasty power, but the fact that he doesn't have any other powers, is a little unimaginative, and tends to step out into the open so that people can figure out they're being illusioned has kept him in the ranks of second banana villains. Toad you'll probably want to use the upgraded version of with the nasty tongue.

If you don't mind doing a lot of the work yourself, there's some anime /manga characters that might be worthwhile putting in the mix.

Ooh, picked up the Seven Soldiers of Victory Archive Edition book, and there's a couple of villains in there that could be adapted for such a group: The Needle (tall, excessively skinny fellow with a needle gun) and the Hopper (uses a overpowered pogo stick, but also has strong legs all on his own.)


Actually Mstermind would probably be a good idea. I could make Toad work the way he was without the tongue. He was never that useless, he was just poorly written and his strengths were never written to, usch as having him use Tae Kwon Do or another kick-based Martial Art due to his superhuman leg strength. Thanks for the ideas.

[fbdaury]

Ahem.

Stilt-Man would never be on a team of second rate villains.

He's too good for them.

Thank you.

Truth be told, I have been considering using him, maybe.

[zornwil]

Geee, second rate villains in a team...that's like half my bad guy teams!

Game Show Host and the Models and the insubstantial invisible Narrator...

The Lizard King with the Human Tongue (yes, that's all he is, one big-ass tongue, little DEF but he heals REAL fast), Octal Fist (who gets tougher each go-round, basically started as a slightly cowardly martial artist with full desol/invis combo and a small but annoying attack in that state), Mover Shaker (started as 8 and became 16 duplicates who basically can only teleport people; they often gang up, coordinate, and teleport someone into the air so that they fall), Eyes (eyes in the back of his head...), Cripper (drainer/dispeller, invis SFX), and Brainswapper (transforms people, swapping his brain with theirs, he actually got oddly kiled completly by accident in battle; he sounds real powerful but he can only do one at a time, and it takes him a little time, another invis pow sfx, this was sort of a half aggressive/gonna-get-ya crew with scaredy-cats alongside!).

And so on...but not much as far as villains go from published books along these lines.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Well...here's a question for you....which villains from the current CU would you put into a "second rate" team? Maybe they've been beaten too often and have banded together to finally get a win. Who would you use?

Rob

[Ura-Maru]

Re: Zaran
Sorry, I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one. Even in a book whose rogue’s gallery included guys like Razor Fist, and a developmentally challenged sumo wrestler, Zaran managed to come off as a total loser. Talks a good fight, but for a guy who’s ‘mastered’ every killing weapon he seems to have serious problems dealing with people who just pick up whatever’s lying nearby. Didn’t Nomad take him down with a golf club?

Shen Keui was cool, though. It’s just his tattoo that was silly. If I remember right, he was winning the first fight with Chi, then they were interrupted. He stalked him a bit, in martial-artist fasion, and they had another fight a few issues later. That was interrupted too. Keui said something like, ‘This time, you would have won,” and walked into the sunset in the traditional badass style. Good to hear he’s gotten some work since. :)

I totally ripped him off for a martial artists rival for a dark champs-esque game I ran back in college.


Re: the All-Losers Squad
Well, Bulldozer and Pulsar, of course. Hypnos, Hornet, and maybe Anklyosaur? Though the last is more of a jerk than a loser . . . Brainchild? Could use a martial artist. Or a mystic. Who was that golden age mystic guy from CU?

I got it. Brainchild sets up the whole thing. He can patch up physical weaknesses with gadgets, (an extra end battery and a force field persistant-ator for Pulsar, some armor and a big hammer for Bulldozer, and such) and act as a sort of ‘behind the scenes’ leader. He can also use psychic surgery to smooth out their personality problems, which does a lot more to improve their effectiveness than the gadgets do. Without telling them, of course.

So, how will they react when they find out? Even winning Morgan Fairchild at last is a hollow triumph once you realize that it was Brainchild’s Advanced-Seduction-Heuristics 3.4 she fell in love with, not you.

Of course, the Ultimates are already kind of a ‘who are you calling a loser!’ team . . .

--
“Jillis! I can’t belive we lost to FREAKING JILLIS!!”

[Twilight]

[QUOTE=Ura-Maru]Re: Zaran
Sorry, I’m going to have to stick to my guns on this one. Even in a book whose rogue’s gallery included guys like Razor Fist, and a developmentally challenged sumo wrestler, Zaran managed to come off as a total loser. Talks a good fight, but for a guy who’s ‘mastered’ every killing weapon he seems to have serious problems dealing with people who just pick up whatever’s lying nearby. Didn’t Nomad take him down with a golf club?

And Superman once required Hostess Fruit Pies to take out Captain Cold but that doesn't make him a loser. I don't really count badly written stories against characters, otherwise recent developments in the Batman books would make him the biggest loser in the universe.

As far as I'm concerned, Zaran has gotten a win over Shang Chi and that prevents him from being a loser. Of course Cap did beat Zaran but then Cap beats a lot of people, just means Zaran is lousy at missle deflecting flying shields. :P

[Enforcer84]

Zaran is alright, he's no Batroc the Leaper, but...

[Karma]

I think one of the criteria could be: "Would you overlook this person if you were forming a new 'Masters of Evil' ?" ;)

The Crimson Cowl's Masters of Evil had 'Boomerang'. Admitedly the woman was a little crazy and was trying to get one villian for every letter of the alphabet, but still...

[fbdaury]

Well...here's a question for you....which villains from the current CU would you put into a "second rate" team? Maybe they've been beaten too often and have banded together to finally get a win. Who would you use?

Rob


None- had the new books but was not pleased with most of the rewrites of villains and so even if I still had the books I would likely use older versions. |I would definitely use Frizbee, maybe Jackhammer, the Geo-Desics(the version from Dystopia though) and a few others.

[Southern Cross]

Same here.I preferred the 4th Edition versions of Mentalla & Menton,for example.