Astrogator's Handbook

[Nyrath]

http://www.scifi-az.com/astronomy/astrogators_handbook.htm

This is sort of a 3-D atlas of local space. The basic book is a free PDF download, and includes 300 stars inside a 50 light year cube centered on Earth. The expanded version cost money, but it has 3500 stars in a 150 light-year cube.

The maps are fat "slices" of the cube, and include overview charts and tables listing the vital statistics of all the stars.

[Lightray]

As I recall, it was one of the resources Steve Long mentioned being particularly excited about when he was working on Star Hero.

The information in the PDF was great, although I didn't find the maps customizable enough to be useful to me.

[Cancer]

The raw data for this exists for free, but you sorta have to know already what to do with it. If you know your trig and can do any programming you can make star maps easily. The problem, really, is presenting 3-d maps in a way which a reader can understand quickly.

There's a cut-down version of one of the requisite data files hanging off
http://www.sci.wsu.edu/math/faculty/jbrown/welcome.html
Look a few lines down (search for "HIPPARCOS catalog file"); there's links to a big compressed flat-text file and a brief explanatory file.

Except for the "problem" that Excel (tm) chokes after about 65,000 lines, you could take that flat-text file (once it's uncompressed) and load it into Excel and get what you want. It includes the three Sun-centered spherical coordinates (RA and dec being the two angles) and the parallax, which is easy to turn into the distance. There are ID numbers of the stars presented and their spectral types, but no fancy names. I did my best to cut that text file down to 80 columns wide. That old page of mine is still up, but I left there years ago, so I cannot alter or update that page anymore.

[Steve Long]

Yes, I have it and use it. I also loaned it to Allen for when he was working on Alien Wars. I suspect it'll be really important if and when we get around to detailing ultra-near-Earth space.

[CSgeekHero]

Excellent resource, thank you.

Another good reference (http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/250lys.html)

Someone had this up in another thread somewhere around here. It looks useful.

[sinanju]

The raw data for this exists for free, but you sorta have to know already what to do with it. If you know your trig and can do any programming you can make star maps easily. The problem, really, is presenting 3-d maps in a way which a reader can understand quickly.


Still another source for various kinds of software to produce 3D star maps (some game oriented, some not).

http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html

[Curufea]

A site I've used a lot in the past.

I also recommend this program, which we used for my Star Hero campaign-
It's full of stars
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/ifosweb/index.htm

[Dale A. Ward]

A few years back, there was a RPG entitled "Universe" (published by one of those game companies that put out very complex strategic games). It was mostly unplayable as an RPG, but it had one playing aid that made it worth the money to me.

This was a large, fold-out poster map of space, showing every star within 50LY of Sol/Terra. The main feature of this map was that it was based on actual astronomical data, and it showed the X-Y-Z coordinates of each star with a mathematical formula which would calculate the distance between any two stars.

I got quite a lot of use out of that map in my Traveller-based Near Earth games.

[BobGreenwade]

Yes, I have it and use it. I also loaned it to Allen for when he was working on Alien Wars. I suspect it'll be really important if and when we get around to detailing ultra-near-Earth space.IF?:angst:

[AlHazred]

Thank you, thank you! I'll take credit for originally exposing everyone on the boards to this most excellent resource.

Of course, I got the link myself from Nyrath's page, so it all comes full circle in the end... :)

[Major Tom]

A few years back, there was a RPG entitled "Universe" (published by one of those game companies that put out very complex strategic games). It was mostly unplayable as an RPG, but it had one playing aid that made it worth the money to me.

This was a large, fold-out poster map of space, showing every star within 50LY of Sol/Terra. The main feature of this map was that it was based on actual astronomical data, and it showed the X-Y-Z coordinates of each star with a mathematical formula which would calculate the distance between any two stars.

I got quite a lot of use out of that map in my Traveller-based Near Earth games.

IIRC, the Traveller: 2300 RPG had a fold-out star map as well.

Major Tom :earth:

[AlHazred]

On Nyrath's page, he has a link to this page (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300/maps.htm), which has a few of the Traveller 2300 projections. I remember some discussion that the T2300 fold-out map had omitted some stars for clarity.

[Spence]

A few years back, there was a RPG entitled "Universe" (published by one of those game companies that put out very complex strategic games). It was mostly unplayable as an RPG, but it had one playing aid that made it worth the money to me.

This was a large, fold-out poster map of space, showing every star within 50LY of Sol/Terra. The main feature of this map was that it was based on actual astronomical data, and it showed the X-Y-Z coordinates of each star with a mathematical formula which would calculate the distance between any two stars.

I got quite a lot of use out of that map in my Traveller-based Near Earth games.


It might have been the StarMaster box set. While it had Sol in it I cannot remember if they stuck to only real stars or added/renamed. Really good RPG map though.

[Dale A. Ward]

It might have been the StarMaster box set. While it had Sol in it I cannot remember if they stuck to only real stars or added/renamed. Really good RPG map though.

I dug around in my old game bag and found it. The title of the game is indeed "Universe", and it was published by SSI. If you can find one in used condition (with the map intact), it's worth buying for that.:thumbup:

[Spence]

I dug around in my old game bag and found it. The title of the game is indeed "Universe", and it was published by SSI. If you can find one in used condition (with the map intact), it's worth buying for that.:thumbup:


Now that us mention SSI. I think I remember the game. Sorry to say it isn't one I actually have.

[Nyrath]

There were quite a few games with reasonably accurate starmaps. Alas, all are out of print.

These include Traveller 2300 by GDW, Bug Hunters / Amazing Engine by TSR (NOT to be confused with Bug Hunter (no "s") / Sniper supplement), The Company War by Mayfair Games, Explored Space by Nightshift Games, FTL:2448 by Tri Tac Systems, StarForce Alpha Centauri by SPI, Universe by SPI, and Web And Starship by West End Games.

The one in Universe is my personal favorite.

[AlHazred]

There were quite a few games with reasonably accurate starmaps. Alas, all are out of print.

That's what eBay is for.

Why is it that I seem to be picking up all those games I wanted to get when I was young, but decided not to spend the money on? They're almost all more expensive now. (I say "almost" because Powers and Perils is universally cheaper!)

Anyway, back on topic. I know there have been a large number of tiny print-run, one-shot Sci Fi games by small publishers (er, now I'm drawing a blank; what about Stellar Conquest from Metagaming?) I always used to wonder if any of them had really good starmaps. Anybody know?

[Spence]

That's what eBay is for.

Why is it that I seem to be picking up all those games I wanted to get when I was young, but decided not to spend the money on? They're almost all more expensive now. (I say "almost" because Powers and Perils is universally cheaper!)

Anyway, back on topic. I know there have been a large number of tiny print-run, one-shot Sci Fi games by small publishers (er, now I'm drawing a blank; what about Stellar Conquest from Metagaming?) I always used to wonder if any of them had really good starmaps. Anybody know?


Stellar Conquest was a Avalon Hill Bookcase game. Looking at my copy as we speak :D But it's starmap was a made up one.

[Nolgroth]

http://astro.nineplanets.org/astrosoftware.html

Found this resource while poking around. Hope it helps.

[Nyrath]

Anyway, back on topic. I know there have been a large number of tiny print-run, one-shot Sci Fi games by small publishers (er, now I'm drawing a blank; what about Stellar Conquest from Metagaming?) I always used to wonder if any of them had really good starmaps. Anybody know?
I'm pretty sure that the ones I listed are the only with good starmaps. FTL:2448 is the one from the smallest publisher.

If there is one I had not listed, I want to know about it so I can add it to my list.
You can see swatches of the maps here:
http://www.projectrho.com/smap10.html
(scroll down)

[Captain Obvious]

A PDF version of 2300AD is available on www.drivethrurpg.com for $15. I kinda liked the aliens from it, besides the real-world starmap. They were actually alien (as opposed to cat-man, lizard-man types), but not so alien that they couldn't interact with humans.

[Dale A. Ward]

I was digging around in my old files yesterday and I found a .PDF file from SCI FI-ARIZONA entitled Astrogator's Handbook - Practical Astrogation for Science Fiction Writers by Michael McCollum. This is/was a freely-distributable e-book, and I would be happy to send it to whoever would be able to host it on their website.

This book has star charts for a 50 LY cube centered on Sol, with a listing of 272 stars within that cube. The list table shows all the data about the star, including its X-Y-Z coordinates. If any of you mathematically-inclined folks happen to know the equation for determining the distance between two points in three-dimensional space, you could use those coordinates to find the distance between any two stars on the charts.

BTW, if you know that equation, please post it here. I know its on my Universe map, but that's in a box under my bed... and I just DON'T GO THERE ANYMORE!

Hell... I just noticed that this is the file that started this thread... forgive my stupidity...

[Cancer]

I was digging around in my old files yesterday and I found a .PDF file from SCI FI-ARIZONA entitled Astrogator's Handbook - Practical Astrogation for Science Fiction Writers by Michael McCollum. This is/was a freely-distributable e-book, and I would be happy to send it to whoever would be able to host it on their website.

This book has star charts for a 50 LY cube centered on Sol, with a listing of 272 stars within that cube. The list table shows all the data about the star, including its X-Y-Z coordinates. If any of you mathematically-inclined folks happen to know the equation for determining the distance between two points in three-dimensional space, you could use those coordinates to find the distance between any two stars on the charts.

BTW, if you know that equation, please post it here. I know its on my Universe map, but that's in a box under my bed... and I just DON'T GO THERE ANYMORE!

Hell... I just noticed that this is the file that started this thread... forgive my stupidity...

distance = SQUARE ROOT[ (x1 - x2)^2 + (y1 - y2)^2 + (z1 - z2)^2 ]

What's the date on the book, out of idle curiosity?

[AlHazred]

There were quite a few games with reasonably accurate starmaps. Alas, all are out of print.

These include Traveller 2300 by GDW, Bug Hunters / Amazing Engine by TSR (NOT to be confused with Bug Hunter (no "s") / Sniper supplement), The Company War by Mayfair Games, Explored Space by Nightshift Games, FTL:2448 by Tri Tac Systems, StarForce Alpha Centauri by SPI, Universe by SPI, and Web And Starship by West End Games.

The one in Universe is my personal favorite. Traveller 2300AD is now available as a free pdf download on DriveThruRPG.com.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=413&&affiliate_id=22291

EDIT - I should mention, it'll only be available for a limited time, so download your watermarked copy today!

[Curufea]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AlHazred again.

[Captain Obvious]

Traveller 2300AD is now available as a free pdf download on DriveThruRPG.com.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=413&&affiliate_id=22291

EDIT - I should mention, it'll only be available for a limited time, so download your watermarked copy today!

Yeah, this is what I was talking about the other day. I highly recommend it. Real-world starmap, some interesting tech, and alien aliens. This game never got a fair shake when it was in print the first time around. :thumbup:

Well, maybe it did. The combat system and skills systems are pretty screwed up as I recall. :thumbdown

But that's why we play Hero! :thumbup:

[Dale A. Ward]

distance = SQUARE ROOT[ (x1 - x2)^2 + (y1 - y2)^2 + (z1 - z2)^2 ]

What's the date on the book, out of idle curiosity?

The only date I see says "Copyright 1998".

And, thanks so much for the equation!! According to my slightly wonky memory, that's exactly the one. Just fill in the XYZs and turn the crank!

(( As an aside, can someone please explain the reputation system on these forums. I feel that Cancer should receive some for posting that equation, but I don't know how to give any or how much I should give. Thanks. ))

[Basil]

(( As an aside, can someone please explain the reputation system on these forums. I feel that Cancer should receive some for posting that equation, but I don't know how to give any or how much I should give. Thanks. ))

Just click on the Scales O' Justice on the right side of the bar above the post you want to Rep-ify. :)

[Dale A. Ward]

Cool!! Thanks, Basil!!

[AlHazred]

However, until you have a total of 50 posts, you can't really give any, sorry! I mean, it shows up on the list, but doesn't add anything.

If you want to see the Rep you've gotten, go to your Control Panel ("User CP" on the menu bar at the top).

[bigdamnhero]

distance = SQUARE ROOT[ (x1 - x2)^2 + (y1 - y2)^2 + (z1 - z2)^2 ]
Nyrath, didn't you used to have a Excel spreadsheet for the Tuffleyverse (the "official" but optional background for Full Thrust, for those unfamiliar) that calculated the distances between all stars within something like 15 parsecs of Earth? I can't find it on your website.


bigdamnhero
"Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dred Pirate Roberts."

[Nyrath]

Nyrath, didn't you used to have a Excel spreadsheet for the Tuffleyverse (the "official" but optional background for Full Thrust, for those unfamiliar) that calculated the distances between all stars within something like 15 parsecs of Earth? I can't find it on your website.
Alas, no. You are thinking about
http://www.projectrho.com/ft/ftmap1.html
but it only has a list of Tuffleyverse stars with their XYZ coords and distance to Sol.

Such a spreadsheet would be so huge as to be almost unusable. It would need as many columns as rows.

It's much easier to put the true distance formula into your own spreadsheet and just type in star coords to calculate a given distance as needed.

I do have some starmaps here
http://www.projectrho.com/smap12.html
that have lines with distances drawn between a star and its closest neighbor. They are in gif, png, and Adobe Acrobat PDF format.
For game purposes one would find the "node maps" to be the most useful.

[tm80401]

I've been looking for data like this for a long time. Thanks for providing the link.

[bigdamnhero]

By the way, has anyone heard of a book called "Proximity Zero, A Writer's Guide to the Nearest 200 Stars" by Terry Kepner? It's out of print, and I've been hunting the local used bookstores for a copy. But now that I've got all the freebies this thread's handed out, I'm wondering if it's worth the effort.


bigdamnhero
"In a sense, this is really *your* movie. So if it sucks, it's *your* fault." - Joss Whedon
Serenity premieres September 30th

[Nyrath]

By the way, has anyone heard of a book called "Proximity Zero, A Writer's Guide to the Nearest 200 Stars" by Terry Kepner? It's out of print, and I've been hunting the local used bookstores for a copy. But now that I've got all the freebies this thread's handed out, I'm wondering if it's worth the effort.
I do have a copy. It's not bad, but I think the Astrogator's Handbook is better.

[bigdamnhero]

I do have a copy. It's not bad, but I think the Astrogator's Handbook is better.
I'll cross it off my list then. Thanks!

bigdamnhero
“I have a cunning plan, which cannot fail...”

[Cancer]

Handy quote from a recently-published paper, relevant to judging the completeness of any of these local star lists:

"It is estimated that [approximately] 32% (18%) of nuclear-burning stars within 33 pc (25 pc) of the Sun remain to be located."

pc = parsec = 3.26 light-year

The undiscovered ones are low-luminosity (and therefore faint) and have space motions similar to that of the Sun, so they are not easily distinguishable from more distant (but intrinsically more luminous) stars. By "low luminosity" I mean what are called very late M-type dwarf stars, which have masses not much above 0.08 solar masses (the cutoff mass for starting hydrogen fusion in their core).

[David Johnston]

Bumped because this contains useful resources that newcomers should see.
But http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearby_stars is particularly valuable to me for being easily searched and containing many of the stars players will actually recognise.

[patrick]

Here's resource that I've used a lot recently
http://www.stellar-database.com/

Basically punch in the name of a star and get gobs of info:D

For a list of stars
http://www.solstation.com/stars.htm

Both sites together provide a lot of information to plug into AstroSynthesis

That said I'm definitly picking up The Astrogator's Handbook.

[David Johnston]

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/

Is interesting because it is so easy to visualise.

[Nyrath]

I was working on a new star map (http://www.projectrho.com/smap12.html#map03), but there was an empty spot in the lower right corner. So I made something quick and dirty to shove into the empty space.
http://www.projectrho.com/portfolio/port21.html

[Captain Obvious]

I was working on a new star map (http://www.projectrho.com/smap12.html#map03), but there was an empty spot in the lower right corner. So I made something quick and dirty to shove into the empty space.
http://www.projectrho.com/portfolio/port21.html

Very nice. What makes the inner and outer part of the galaxy uninhabitable? Well, I can guess the inner part is full of radiation and weirdness, but the outer?

[Nyrath]

Very nice. What makes the inner and outer part of the galaxy uninhabitable? Well, I can guess the inner part is full of radiation and weirdness, but the outer?
The outer zone does not have enough elements heavier than hydrogen to form planets or to form molecules complex enough to support life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Habitable_Zone#The_galactic_habitable_zon e
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/GHZ/

I shouldn't have to tell you this, it is right out of STAR HERO, page 67. ;)

[austenandrews]

The outer zone does not have enough elements heavier than hydrogen to form planets or to form molecules complex enough to support life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Habitable_Zone#The_galactic_habitable_zon e
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/GHZ/

I shouldn't have to tell you this, it is right out of STAR HERO, page 67. ;)
As a writer my first instinct is to say "Life can't exist out there, except where it does." But the GHZ is a reasonable basis for extrapolating where Earth-like life is most likely to be concentrated.

[Nyrath]

As a writer my first instinct is to say "Life can't exist out there, except where it does." But the GHZ is a reasonable basis for extrapolating where Earth-like life is most likely to be concentrated.
Exactly. When it says "habitable", it really means "comfortable for Earth-humans". It doesn't apply to energy-beings, nebula dwellers, magentovores living in solar coronas, or similar exotic life forms.

[austenandrews]

Heck, in the big picture, maybe we're the exotic extremophiles.

[Nyrath]

Heck, in the big picture, maybe we're the exotic extremophiles.
Indeed!

from http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3aa.html

Many point to the ecosystems at the Galapagos black smokers (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/abyss/life/extremes.html) as proof that life is possible in underground oceans on, say, Europa (http://uanews.opi.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/wa/SRStoryDetails?ArticleID=4950). However, if this is true, the implication is that such life will be far more common than terrestrial life. After all, there are several such moons in our solar system, and only one Terra (Europa, Enceladus, Ganymede and Titan). If there are four such moons, then throughout the universe iceball life will outnumber liquid water life four to one, on average. Such life turns up in The Killing Star by Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski

[austenandrews]

So if we discover some weird organism living on a gas giant, the implication is that it represents an even more common class of life form?

[Nyrath]

So if we discover some weird organism living on a gas giant, the implication is that it represents an even more common class of life form?
You've got it.

It's just that NASA scientists think they are going out on a limb postulating black-smoker style life on frozen moons. Jovan life is a little too far-out for them.

That doesn't stop us, of course.

[Captain Obvious]

The outer zone does not have enough elements heavier than hydrogen to form planets or to form molecules complex enough to support life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Habitable_Zone#The_galactic_habitable_zon e
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/GHZ/

I shouldn't have to tell you this, it is right out of STAR HERO, page 67. ;)

Oh come on. You can't expect me to know it chapter and verse. I haven't even opened Star Hero in months.

[Nyrath]

Oh come on. You can't expect me to know it chapter and verse. I haven't even opened Star Hero in months.
Sorry, I was actually providing myself with some cover, since James and Steven would probably chide me if I failed to mention it.:sneaky:

[Clonus]

So if we discover some weird organism living on a gas giant, the implication is that it represents an even more common class of life form?

Gas Giants vary considerably in their characteristics, far more than the differences between Venus, Earth and Mars so it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that everything from Gliese B to Uranus is a suitable starting ground for life. The real question is not whether life can possibly exist in a given body, except for the purposes of would-be bioformers, but more whether it can start there.