Possession - Desolid + Mental Powers

[WhammeWhamme]

Interesting thought - if you made a Mind Control Attack (without Affects Real World), then go desolid - can you pay END to keep it from weakening over time?

[Dust Raven]

Interesting question. Off the cuff I'd say no. Once you're Desol, the effect of the power is "out of range", more or less.

[WhammeWhamme]

The thing is, you can continue to attack...

Plus, it makes possession much easier. The character is solid for a phase, they hit with MC, then they go desolid. Bam.

I mean, if they _weren't_ paying END, it'd be fine. And they can make attack actions after, I think...

I think I'll go ask Steve.

[MisterBaldy]

My thoughts on Mind Control...

Mind Control had a Duration which is listed as Instant.

So, after you go "desolid", the effects of the Mind Control lingers, as it does with any other Instant Duration power.

[Doc Democracy]

The construct I've been toying with for possession is a combo of transform and duplication...

Essentially what I'm thinking is that the possessing character buys duplication. When he wants to possess someone then he uses the transform to transform the target into the merged character of which he is part.

The merged character would have the INT and EGO of the possesser and everything else from the possessed character.

My thoughts are that there a limit on how big (points wise) a character could possibly be possessed through the point limits in the duplication construction.

It seems a bit twisted at first but it does use an existing construction to combine two characters into one. I haven't done any number crunching or anything but I think it would be a reasonable way to make Jericho for example...


Doc

[prestidigitator]

I just let Desolidified characters use Mental Powers without Affects Physical World. First, they can be affected by Mental Powers that don't take any advantages, and second it is relatively easy to find a tactical position from which to use Mental Powers without repraisal anyway (such as doing it from a mile away, because as long as you have LOS...). Besides, Mental Powers have Mind Scan anyway; other Attack Powers can't be used like that.

[Dust Raven]

My thoughts on Mind Control...

Mind Control had a Duration which is listed as Instant.

So, after you go "desolid", the effects of the Mind Control lingers, as it does with any other Instant Duration power.

But you have the option to continue to pay END (as a Constant Power) to keep the breakout rolll from getting easier.

[Dust Raven]

I just let Desolidified characters use Mental Powers without Affects Physical World. First, they can be affected by Mental Powers that don't take any advantages, and second it is relatively easy to find a tactical position from which to use Mental Powers without repraisal anyway (such as doing it from a mile away, because as long as you have LOS...). Besides, Mental Powers have Mind Scan anyway; other Attack Powers can't be used like that.

The thing is, just about anyone could travel a mile to pummel such a mentalist. Just like anyone can run behind the cover the Mentalist has chosen, or can even blast the earth to rubble his hiding in while using N-Ray. If the mentalist if Desol, they not only need Desol, they need to same kind of Desol to reach him, or have a special Advantage on their attacks.

[prestidigitator]

The thing is, just about anyone could travel a mile to pummel such a mentalist. Just like anyone can run behind the cover the Mentalist has chosen, or can even blast the earth to rubble his hiding in while using N-Ray. If the mentalist if Desol, they not only need Desol, they need to same kind of Desol to reach him, or have a special Advantage on their attacks.
...or use the, "common," SFX that can hurt the character, or have a mentalist of their own. Eh. I don't know.

[Hawksmoor]

I just saw a Jericho powerset that included Transdimensional Mind Control with an EDM (Host Body) and Transdimensional Clairsentience (use the senses of the Host Body). Repped the guy but I can't find the thread now.

The character plays like a multiform but does not pay the costs for it. Actually with the MC costs he does but that is Apples and Star Fruit.

EDIT: Found the Thread Doc Samson was the guy that built the power.

Possession
Mind Control telepathic, transdimensional
Limitation: Requires eye contact "the eyes are the window to the soul"
Powers Linked to Mind Control
Extra Dimensional Travel "the targets body" (this was alot less awkward than many of the Desolidifications builds we tried)
Telepathy, "the targets thoughts and memories" (plus the route used to give commands), transdimensional
Clairsentience, "the targets senses", transdimensional

Could that work for you?

Hawksmoor

[Dust Raven]

...or use the, "common," SFX that can hurt the character, or have a mentalist of their own. Eh. I don't know.

Yeah, essentiall one of three things: Affects Desolid (which may or may not still affect the character, if the GM only allows this Advantage to apply against specific SFX instead of in general), having the SFX that specifically affects the character, or having a Mental Power (the chances of the two characters having the same SFX for desol is to rare to include). In the case of Affects Desolid, that attack has been specifically bought to counter the Desol, so technically doesn't count. Only the two that would affect anyone, Desol or not (or Desol of a particular type or not) would really count.

Basically, what buggs me is that a Desol Character can only be hurt by two types of things automatically (and those only because the rules require there be no absolute defenses), but if he can use Mental Powers without paying extra, then he can affect anyone. Doesn't seem very fair, particularly since the things that may affect probably won't come up in every combat he's in.

[Hawksmoor]

For the test bed character I am playing around with now this issue is dealt with by including Disads such as: Physical Limitation: Stunned when Host Stunned, Unconscious when Host Unconscious.

Makes the damage point moot I think.

Hawksmoor

[prestidigitator]

Yeah, essentiall one of three things: Affects Desolid (which may or may not still affect the character, if the GM only allows this Advantage to apply against specific SFX instead of in general), having the SFX that specifically affects the character, or having a Mental Power (the chances of the two characters having the same SFX for desol is to rare to include). In the case of Affects Desolid, that attack has been specifically bought to counter the Desol, so technically doesn't count. Only the two that would affect anyone, Desol or not (or Desol of a particular type or not) would really count.

Basically, what buggs me is that a Desol Character can only be hurt by two types of things automatically (and those only because the rules require there be no absolute defenses), but if he can use Mental Powers without paying extra, then he can affect anyone. Doesn't seem very fair, particularly since the things that may affect probably won't come up in every combat he's in.
Hmm. Probably true. What about Mind Scan, though? If a character is likely to be able to affect someone with his other Mental Powers, he is likely to be able to affect them with Mind Scan. Then there is only one kind of attack that the target can reliably use against him: Mental Powers. So should Mental Powers usable through Mind Scan also be required to take a +2 Advantage? Maybe. Mind Scan does seem awfully useful.

BTW, not that it changes things much, but I thought of another kind of attack that can affect Desolidified targets automatically: Presence Attacks. Of course, their effect could be reduced often because the Desolid character knows he is pretty untouchable. Eh.

[Dust Raven]

Hmm. Probably true. What about Mind Scan, though? If a character is likely to be able to affect someone with his other Mental Powers, he is likely to be able to affect them with Mind Scan. Then there is only one kind of attack that the target can reliably use against him: Mental Powers. So should Mental Powers usable through Mind Scan also be required to take a +2 Advantage? Maybe. Mind Scan does seem awfully useful.

BTW, not that it changes things much, but I thought of another kind of attack that can affect Desolidified targets automatically: Presence Attacks. Of course, their effect could be reduced often because the Desolid character knows he is pretty untouchable. Eh.

Mmm... and Flash. There seems to be a bit actually, but nothing actually harmful (other than some uses of Mental Powers).

[Gadodel]

I have been thinking about using Extra Dimensional Travel for this. 'May we coexist at the same space, same time'. Add the character points from each individual to get a total...

[OddHat]

Mmm... and Flash. There seems to be a bit actually, but nothing actually harmful (other than some uses of Mental Powers).

Desolid and Mental Powers are both tricky enough that I'd be very cautious about allowing a character to combine them, unless it were a campaign where that was very much part of the genre (a Ghosts campaign, a Mystic campaign). However, if I do allow those powers in combination, I don't charge extra to be able to use Mental powers on solid targets; in campaigns where they're allowed at all, 5thEd mental powers are fairly weak for their point cost in direct combat anyway. 12d6 of Mind Controll can on average take a 10 EGO character out of combat for a Turn or so in one shot, but +60 STR or a 12d EB will do the job even better against normals, and will stay usefull longer as targets scale up. IME, YMMV.

The combination is synergistic; certainly something a GM should be cautious about.