Fumbled Seduction Roll

[Super Squirrel]

In my play-by-post, one of my NPCs just rolled an 18 on a Seduction roll. I like to have a roll of a 3 be a resounding success and the roll of an 18 to be a major failure. But I have no idea how to interrprut an 18 for a seduction roll.

Any suggestions?

[AliceTheOwl]

I say a failed Seduction roll should result in it being obvious, clumsy, and bound to fail. I have no idea how to put that in practical terms.

Rep to the person whose idea he uses (I want the game to move forward, dangit!).

[Astyanax]

Um... how about the player "failed" to notice the bodybuilder who is her husband and 2 children sitting at the table?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

My interpretation would be that said character did or said something in such a way as to be a total turnoff....or alternately....his/her whole approach was wrong...making him seem obvious and desperate.

Rob

[Lanith]

I can almost picture it in my head, "Hey pretty lady how you doing tonight? Wanna go back to my place and make a few naughty videos?"

I agree with you SS that rolling an 18 is an unusually bad thing, so something out of the ordinary should occur. If this is a "long-term" NPC, have the person getting seduced remember them acting like this for quite sometime. (Minuses to all Social Skills) I know that I've had to work for years to finally get people to forget when I was a jerk to them.

Just be as cheesy and slimy as you want.

EDIT: I re-read the original, I thought a PC was the seducer not the seducee.

[rjcurrie]

Wouldn't a fumbled seduction roll cause an extreme negative reaction by the person who the roll was being used on? Basically, the player probably said something really stupid that caused the target to take an instant dislike to them -- probably undoing any good feelings they had already built up.

[nexus]

"You saunter up to the lady, exuding charisma and confidence as you make your way threw the crowd. Fixing with a direct, but not intense gaze, you say you most mellow voice."Hi there pretty Ladee... with eyes and the dress and oh!"

:D

[Herolover]

I have always liked the idea that a 3 is a great success and an 18 is an OMG screwup. So, a failed Seduction roll uhh...lol this could be fun or bad. The first thing is I have no idea of what the exact situation is or where you want it to go so these suggestions are very general and some might not even be playable.

1) The NPC misinterpets the person saying no and thinks they say yes.
2) The NPC is charged with sexual harrasement.
3) At a major extreme the NPC misinterpets the situtaion. He thinks they are being coy and commits sexual assualt.
4) Word of the NPCs attempt at seduction gets around in society and his reputation is ruined.
5) Turns out the target is underage.


Just some suggestions. If you can give details on NPC, target, and situation I might be able to help more.

[zornwil]

I would certainly go by NOT letting the player know they failed. They should think they succeeded brilliantly. Either the target is turning the tables and fooling them utterly or more likely it will just end badly much as described in the post above, although if it's befriendship sort of Seduction as opposed to sexual then I'd have the conversation or whatever it is continue a bit and have the offended party do something like call in some friends to beat the crap out of this person who so offended them or otherwise have them do something that completely takes the PC by surprise.

[AliceTheOwl]

We have a winner!


1) The NPC misinterpets the person saying no and thinks they say yes.
Wow. That got some pretty fast results. Who knew rep bribery was so useful?

*ducks back into the NGD to harvest more bribe material*

[Black Lotus]

I would certainly go by NOT letting the player know they failed. They should think they succeeded brilliantly. Either the target is turning the tables and fooling them utterly or more likely it will just end badly much as described in the post above, although if it's befriendship sort of Seduction as opposed to sexual then I'd have the conversation or whatever it is continue a bit and have the offended party do something like call in some friends to beat the crap out of this person who so offended them or otherwise have them do something that completely takes the PC by surprise.

Instead of telling the PC they succeeded, because they failed and just don't know it, let the players know in ADVANCE that they will never be told just how well they do when using a Skill in a situation like this, and roleplay it.

Say PC A wants to Seduce NPC B. The Gm rolls Seduction for him, but doesn't tell the PC ANYTHING about the result. Not even "you succeeded". This way, just like in real life, the PC says things to the NPC trying to seduct him or her, and has to wait either to see the NPC's reaction to know the jist of the result, or must wait until all is said and done.

You get me? Sigh, I know what I just said was really confusing, sorry.

[Herolover]

lol....
The Seducer wakes up in his bath tub filled with ice, a scar on his right side, and a note that says, "Call 911 for the Emergency room immdiately."

[Black Lotus]

lol....
The Seducer wakes up in his bath tub filled with ice, a scar on his right side, and a note that says, "Call 911 for the Emergency room immdiately."

ROFL~! Exactly. If you always told the PCs at least a little about the result of a roll you want to hide from them, this situation could never occur.

They'll know they're GENERALLY GOOD at something if they have a high Skill Roll, but that doesn't mean they get to be privy to the direct results of a Skill like Seduction. ;)

And I was going to say something else I thought of, but I forgot. My mind is like a sieve.

[Black Lotus]

OH! I remember!

See, if you tell PCs even a limited amount of info, or straight-up lie to them, they can sometimes tell whether you're lying to fool them. If, for example, they Fumble a Skill roll disarming a bomb (without a timer they can see), but the bomb doesn't go off in your face, if you yell "YOU SUCCEEDED!" in a cheerful voice, or even if you do it in a regular voice, they may be able to deduce that you are lying because they actually failed miserably.

See what I mean? Because you would ALWAYS be telling them they succeed. If they DO succeed, you say "You succeed." If they fail, you say "You succeed", because you don't want them to know you failed.

Therefore, tell them nothing, :ninja stance::

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

well if the PC is the target of seduction, obviously they are about to be stalked.

The NPC is *very creepy* following them home, watching their windows etc.


Have fun with this one, esp. if it's a super hero game

(or if it's seduction to make friends, then that NPC just said the vilest most racist slur ever to that PC)

[mattingly]

The PC believes he succeeds, and the lucky lady accompanies him. In the cab right on the way to his place, the groping gets heavy, and he realizes with horror... this woman is not a woman!

[zornwil]

Instead of telling the PC they succeeded, because they failed and just don't know it, let the players know in ADVANCE that they will never be told just how well they do when using a Skill in a situation like this, and roleplay it.

Say PC A wants to Seduce NPC B. The Gm rolls Seduction for him, but doesn't tell the PC ANYTHING about the result. Not even "you succeeded". This way, just like in real life, the PC says things to the NPC trying to seduct him or her, and has to wait either to see the NPC's reaction to know the jist of the result, or must wait until all is said and done.

You get me? Sigh, I know what I just said was really confusing, sorry.
I think that made sense, sure, that's a good way to do it. I tend not to do that only because I think "regular" success and failure should be apparent to players, but that's just me. Borderline cases I'm borderline about!

PS - I meant mechanically apparent, as well as RP-apparent. I realize you intend using RPing as the conveyance/feedback method.

[zornwil]

OH! I remember!

See, if you tell PCs even a limited amount of info, or straight-up lie to them, they can sometimes tell whether you're lying to fool them. If, for example, they Fumble a Skill roll disarming a bomb (without a timer they can see), but the bomb doesn't go off in your face, if you yell "YOU SUCCEEDED!" in a cheerful voice, or even if you do it in a regular voice, they may be able to deduce that you are lying because they actually failed miserably.

See what I mean? Because you would ALWAYS be telling them they succeed. If they DO succeed, you say "You succeed." If they fail, you say "You succeed", because you don't want them to know you failed.

Therefore, tell them nothing, :ninja stance::
I dunno, the other day I said to a player, "You're positive you succeeded," and they looked at me and said, "Oh,no, you must have rolled an 18!" I didn't, but they were still guessing! :D

[zornwil]

The PC believes he succeeds, and the lucky lady accompanies him. In the cab right on the way to his place, the groping gets heavy, and he realizes with horror... this woman is not a woman!
Ha, that's great. I'd be inclined to do this more for a biffed PER roll with successful Seduction, though... :eg:

[Mantis]

In my play-by-post, one of my NPCs just rolled an 18 on a Seduction roll. I like to have a roll of a 3 be a resounding success and the roll of an 18 to be a major failure.1. She's a bloke. :eek: (a la Crying Game).
2. Sprung! (Think Hugh Grant and the Hooker).
2a. Both of the above (Danny Bonaduce and the transvestite).
3. Brewer's droop ("Umm, this has never happened before...").
4. He shoots when he sees the whites of her thighs ("Is this what you meant by 'I'm the fastest man alive!'?").

[nexus]

In my play-by-post, one of my NPCs just rolled an 18 on a Seduction roll. I like to have a roll of a 3 be a resounding success and the roll of an 18 to be a major failure. But I have no idea how to interrprut an 18 for a seduction roll.

Any suggestions?

What was he trying to do with the skill? Accomplish anything specific, just pick up a random person or...?

[AliceTheOwl]

What was he trying to do with the skill? Accomplish anything specific, just pick up a random person or...?
Actually, it was a roll of a female NPC to seduce a male PC (who is very, very drunk, and involved with a PC who would KILL him if she found out. Painfully).

[nexus]

Actually, it was a roll of a female NPC to seduce a male PC (who is very, very drunk, and involved with a PC who would KILL him if she found out. Painfully).

Ooops! Hm, botched attempt to seduce a drunken man. She gets more than she expected and he tries to take advantage of her? He freak out and start calling her a slut and other invectives, making a scene?

Or, I guess the gm should describe a really horrible, blatant attempt to manipulate the PC and let the player decide how to react.

Social skills by NPCs on PCs are always a bugbear for me.

[AliceTheOwl]

Ooops! Hm, botched attempt to seduce a drunken man. She gets more than she expected and he tries to take advantage of her? He freak out and start calling her a slut and other invectives, making a scene?

Or, I guess the gm should describe a really horrible, blatant attempt to manipulate the PC and let the player decide how to react.

Social skills by NPCs on PCs are always a bugbear for me.
She's actually attempting this in his room at the inn. She forced her way in when he opened the door.

[nexus]

She's actually attempting this in his room at the inn.

Well, I would go with the describe a horrible seduction attempt and role play the result.

[Black Lotus]

Well, I would go with the describe a horrible seduction attempt and role play the result.

Yes, if the effect of a roll will be immediately and plainly obvious, there's no need to perform a stealth roll. :thumbup:

[nexus]

Yes, if the effect of a roll will be immediately and plainly obvious, there's no need to perform a stealth roll. :thumbup:

What?

I thought the OP was looking for ideas on how to handle a botched Seduction roll? People were given the reactions/results of a male failing to seducing a woman in a horrible way. I, apparently, was the only one that needed correcting in the matter since the acutal situation was totally different so I said how I would handle it. What the heck did I do wrong now? Stealth roll, what?

[zornwil]

I think you're fine, I didn't understand the stealth roll part of the comment, either?

[proditor]

This thread caused an immediate "Bad Santa" flashback for me. I think most of the ideas covered the bases than I could anyway. :)

[Black Lotus]

I think you're fine, I didn't understand the stealth roll part of the comment, either?

Uh... by "stealth roll", I am referring to a roll that is hidden from the PCs. If I had meant Stealth, I would have capitalized it. :D

And nexus, I was basically agreeing with you, in that if there is no need to hide the result of a roll, why hide it?

[nexus]

Uh... by "stealth roll", I am referring to a roll that is hidden from the PCs. If I had meant Stealth, I would have capitalized it. :D

And nexus, I was basically agreeing with you, in that if there is no need to hide the result of a roll, why hide it?

Ah, ok sorry. I've got a pounding headache right now and I'm grouchy. My apologies... Probably should hit the sack

[Super Squirrel]

Well, she failed miserably at what she attempted. She certainly tried. It just ticked her off even more, ah the perils of being a villain.

[zornwil]

Well, she failed miserably at what she attempted. She certainly tried. It just ticked her off even more, ah the perils of being a villain.
Holy crap, I misread "perils" as another word entirely...a word related to the male anatomy...

[Black Lotus]

Holy crap, I misread "perils" as another word entirely...a word related to the male anatomy...

Bad lizard! Bad! No cookie! ::bonks zornwil with a rolled-up newspaper::

[BNakagawa]

catastrophic failure on interpersonal skill rolls?

Take a cue from our best scriptwriters - have the other party completely misinterpet the attempt and come to a firmly held belief and entirely wrong belief that will cause the fumbler the most embarassment and/or grief.

Oh, you were trying to set me up on a date with your teammate? (the fumbler's rival?)

or whatever floats your boat. Fumbled seduction rolls ought to cause grief for months and months, IMO.

[Vondy]

Drink poured on head; slap to face; subject of seduction attempt storms away. Future attempts will be automatic failues unless something major happens to change their opinion of the seducer.

[CourtFool]

Fumbled seduction rolls ought to cause grief for months and months, IMO.

I have to disagree with this, apparently comon, line of thinking. A single botched attack roll does not usually (in my experience) get the character killed or last longer than a split second. Long enough to put the character in real danger (dropped weapon, trip, ect.). Penalizing a character for a bad roll for months (in-game time) seems a bit harsh.

IMO this is a big reason why a lot of players take so few skills. Exactly what a skill can do is often vague and changes from GM to GM. Opportunities to use a particular skill are usually (again, in my experience) rare and if you blow your one chance you look a fool despite the fact you may be the only character with actual training/experience.

Yes it was a botched attempt. There should be negative consequences. Yes it was an NPC but the players will expect the same when the tables are turned. I am just not ready to jump on the 'Let's minimize skill usefulness' bandwagon.

[Black Lotus]

Yes it was a botched attempt. There should be negative consequences. Yes it was an NPC but the players will expect the same when the tables are turned. I am just not ready to jump on the 'Let's minimize skill usefulness' bandwagon.

Well-said, and I agree.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

but sometime an incharacter fubmble can create a month long running joke. Like this....

Wallace is our most trained doctor in this roughly medeval setting. He has a parametics score of 12 or 13, while the others of us have base 8 i belive. So then an NPC we had captured gets hit with a crossbow bolt while he was trying to escape. Wallace preformed an 18 and found out that he had to cut the crossbow bolt out of the guy. He wasn't carrying a small knife or any smaller than his halaberd. So "Dr. Halaberd" decides to use that.

And sticks him the the halabard.

Killing him.

And we give him greif for this a year later (don't let walace opperate on me!)

[CourtFool]

I found this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396753) on another board, but thought it very applicable.

[zornwil]

I have to disagree with this, apparently comon, line of thinking. A single botched attack roll does not usually (in my experience) get the character killed or last longer than a split second. Long enough to put the character in real danger (dropped weapon, trip, ect.). Penalizing a character for a bad roll for months (in-game time) seems a bit harsh.

IMO this is a big reason why a lot of players take so few skills. Exactly what a skill can do is often vague and changes from GM to GM. Opportunities to use a particular skill are usually (again, in my experience) rare and if you blow your one chance you look a fool despite the fact you may be the only character with actual training/experience.

Yes it was a botched attempt. There should be negative consequences. Yes it was an NPC but the players will expect the same when the tables are turned. I am just not ready to jump on the 'Let's minimize skill usefulness' bandwagon.
I dunno - I like 18s and 3s to be dramatic. One of my favorite ever 3 results, to take the opposite, was when a PC was playing pool against Puck, who was supposed to, of course, be tricking them. Well, they rolled a 3...and won Puck's ever-replenishing bag of coins. No points paid, just the bennie - forever, or at least until they lost it (which they never did).

[AliceTheOwl]

What?

I thought the OP was looking for ideas on how to handle a botched Seduction roll? People were given the reactions/results of a male failing to seducing a woman in a horrible way. I, apparently, was the only one that needed correcting in the matter since the acutal situation was totally different so I said how I would handle it. What the heck did I do wrong now? Stealth roll, what?
No; I was just clarifying. I think you're the first person who asked for clarification, which is why I directed it at you.


Well, she failed miserably at what she attempted. She certainly tried. It just ticked her off even more, ah the perils of being a villain.
And made me giggle, to boot.

I do hope this little exchange is shared with my character. It'll amuse her to no end.

[Cancer]

I think an 18 roll is carte blanche to do what you want. But there's no point in getting too creative with an NPC; it's just a situation-specific botch.

In this situation ... evil NPC femme rolling an 18 on Seduction of an intoxicated male player character ... I think she gets vomited on, he passes out immediately (and has no memory of the event) and she cannot wake him up, and one of the inn staff [assuming that's a relevant feature for the campaign setting] happens by and asks what's going on, draws conclusions that she's not a person one wants in one's establishment, and ends up escorting her off the premises.

That's assuming that rendering him unconcious wasn't what she wanted. If it was, well, something else happens. Make it up; that's what you're paid the big bucks for, right? :winkgrin:

[Enforcer84]

PC: Hi there, I am Sex, would you like to have Steve with me?

[Rapier]

In my play-by-post, one of my NPCs just rolled an 18 on a Seduction roll. I like to have a roll of a 3 be a resounding success and the roll of an 18 to be a major failure. But I have no idea how to interrprut an 18 for a seduction roll.

Any suggestions?

In the veritable words of Rainman "Uh oh, fart."

[pinecone]

In my play-by-post, one of my NPCs just rolled an 18 on a Seduction roll. I like to have a roll of a 3 be a resounding success and the roll of an 18 to be a major failure. But I have no idea how to interrprut an 18 for a seduction roll.

Any suggestions?
How cruel do you think the universe is? I'd likely at least consider an 18 to be a boomerang...ie the person you're vamping, somehow put the whammy on you......so have mr/mrs sex-ay fall for their target ....."He/She is just soooo cool...."