Vampires and Automatons

[instag8or19]

Ok...as in D&D Vampires cannot be stunned...I want to carry this over to Hero

I know the Bestiary gives Vampires like 75% Resistant DR, but I didnt want them that powerful.

so i thought Automaton...Take No Stun...after looking through it, I decided not, but then I read a bit more and saw cannot be stunned (15pts)

I thought ok....makes sense...but then after reading through the Automaton's basic principles...10 STR/ 2 SPD/ 6" Running/ and standard human senses...also 0 EGO and immunity to mental powers....and can only carry out Commands/ Programs equal to its INT...

well I thought about it and Vampires really dont take orders unless by an uber vampire or the vampire that turned you. And vampires arent immune to mental powers...

So would they get an EGO...and in what other cases would an automaton get EGO?

[Black Lotus]

They can buy it as a Power, AFAIK.

[John Desmarais]

So would they get an EGO...and in what other cases would an automaton get EGO?
Strictly speaking, no and never.

au·tom·a·ton
n. pl. au·tom·a·tons or au·tom·a·ta

A self-operating machine or mechanism, especially a robot.
One that behaves or responds in a mechanical way.
That being said, I'd recommend just giving your Vampaign the power "Can not be stunned" and ignoring all of the automaton bagage. (This is an NPC or villain, right?)

[Black Lotus]

I'd recommend just giving your Vampaign the power "Can not be stunned" and ignoring all of the automaton bagage. (This is an NPC or villain, right?)

I agree that this is the best and most logical solution.

[Lord Liaden]

Although Cannot Be Stunned is by the default rules not supposed to be given to PCs, if we're talking NPC vampires I as GM would allow it for the kind of effect you're talking about, without making the vampires full Automatons.

I've seen a published non-Automaton character or two over the years who was given that ability, and otherwise built normally. When you consider the minuses of being an Automaton (lack of reasoning capacity and independent decision making) vs. the plusses (immunity to Mental Powers and Presence Attacks), as far as running the game goes they pretty much balance out; so I don't think that giving NPCs this ability would mess up game balance as long as it's used sparingly.

[instag8or19]

ok...the campaign Im doing is based on evil characters...and one wants to become a vampire...becuase of one of my NPC vampires...and the other wants to become a lich...Im only allowing this because its a fairly high powered campaign...begining epic level (20+)...

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

i'd just give him the "can not be stunned" power, at 15pts, although he really should probably have "takes no stun" at 45 pts instead.

Ignore the automaton stuff if you don't like it, just make sure you don't get carried away.

(or just buy lots of con vs. cannot be stunned) or something

[AnotherSkip]

Are you daft?

Vampires are one of those npc Major monsters in most games designed to take on plenty of heroes and still look like they will win.

better think about it a bit first.

There are also a few things I personally like to do that cheapens the Vampire a bit (dropping the stupid transform power first) w/o really unbalancing them.

(best argument against the stupid transform power, how many points do you charge humans for being able to have babies?)

I don't give vampires a break on the blood drinking requirement either(costing or saving points), everyone eats, just what it is is a diferent question.

try thinking about vampires as being a secretive cult rather than aliens and you get the idea.

[prestidigitator]

(best argument against the stupid transform power, how many points do you charge humans for being able to have babies?)
Well, seeing as humans don't take full and effective characters and convert them into babies, I don't charge a thing. Vampires, on the other hand....


I don't give vampires a break on the blood drinking requirement either(costing or saving points), everyone eats, just what it is is a diferent question.
Eh. Whether you charge nothing, give them a Life Support and a Psychological Limitation, or whatever is really up to you. You can always do the whole deal with blood empowering the use of their abilities too. Whatever.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

it costs 5 pts to make babies, because a physical limitation to be a eunich is worth 5 pts

[prestidigitator]

I tend to make, "unintelligent," undead such as skeletons and zombies as your normal Automaton. Autonomous but not fully intelligent undead (e.g. D&D's Ghouls) I do as Automatons with, "computer brains," (except I just give the Automaton itself the Computer Characteristics rather than defining them separately). (Depending upon the campaign I may allow the latter or both to be affected by Machine-Class Mental Powers.)

For fully intelligent undead, I usually don't build them as Automatons, but still allow them to take Automaton Powers. If I am running a campaign in which the PCs are all things like vampires, I may even allow selected Automaton Powers to them. But them I'm probababababably nuts. :D

[AmadanNaBriona]

it costs 5 pts to make babies, because a physical limitation to be a eunich is worth 5 pts
makes sense, but really far too expensive :D
it costs 1 point to summon a base human. Add on appropriate limitations... extra time 9 months, side effects, and a host of other possibilities and the total cost winds up around 1/10 of a point. Fair enough to call it an Everywoman ability.

[Rapier]

Another thing to consider, and a little more balance friendly is to just go with the +15 CON Only to Avoid Stunning (-1). It may be the same points but it won't raise an eyebrow of even the staunchest of rules lawyers.

[Black Lotus]

By the way -- the ability to procreate is, of course, an Everyman Skill (or Power), no matter how much it is worth. Being sterile is probably a -0 Limitation, unless you are playing in a campaign where heirs are a factor, which I doubt.

Being able to trasdform a Human into a Vampire is clearly Transform, and it is (probably) an Everyvampire skill. To offset the value of this transform Power, make some of the vampires' well-known weaknesses into Everyvampire weaknesses.

With a little creative thinking, problem is solved. :king:

[Dust Raven]

makes sense, but really far too expensive :D
it costs 1 point to summon a base human. Add on appropriate limitations... extra time 9 months, side effects, and a host of other possibilities and the total cost winds up around 1/10 of a point. Fair enough to call it an Everywoman ability.

Does that mean I can buy a Power: Dispel Summon to make people just vanish?

[Dust Raven]

So would they get an EGO...and in what other cases would an automaton get EGO?

I agree with John: no and none.

However, if you'd like (or the GM allows) you can plop the Cannot Be Stunned (or any other Autamaton only Power) on a regular character (PC or NPC).

And if you don't like, (or the GM does not allow), you could then buy CON +26, No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only To Not Be Stunned (-2). Though to be honest, it's easier to just buy the Cannot Be Stunned Power.

[prestidigitator]

I agree with John: no and none.

However, if you'd like (or the GM allows) you can plop the Cannot Be Stunned (or any other Autamaton only Power) on a regular character (PC or NPC).

And if you don't like, (or the GM does not allow), you could then buy CON +26, No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only To Not Be Stunned (-2). Though to be honest, it's easier to just buy the Cannot Be Stunned Power.
Actually, an Automaton can, "have Ego," by the standard rules. You just give it an AI Computer for its mind. But I also tend to go with the simpler route of allowing Automaton Powers on a non-Automaton.

[Silbeg]

If all you are looking for is stun immunity, why not give the vamps

40: +40 CON, only to resist Stunning (-1)
(or determine what the CON needs to be, and the lim... if you don't like these levels).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

or just buy lots of con vs. cannot be stunned

I said it back in post 7, and i'll say it again, it looks like con, only against being stunned is the way to go

[gojira]

Does that mean I can buy a Power: Dispel Summon to make people just vanish?

Yep. An OAF dispel people: M240 machine gun dispels people quite nicely. :D

(Figure M240 is about 2d6+1K, autofire x 10, AE, and continuing to simulate supression fire, and I'd call that a People B Gone power.)

[Dust Raven]

Actually, an Automaton can, "have Ego," by the standard rules. You just give it an AI Computer for its mind. But I also tend to go with the simpler route of allowing Automaton Powers on a non-Automaton.

Only, it's not the Automaton's EGO, it's the AI's.

[prestidigitator]

Only, it's not the Automaton's EGO, it's the AI's.
I don't see as there is any real difference. If the AI is in direct control of the Automaton, what does it matter, "who's," Ego it is?

[Onyxclaw]

Yep. An OAF dispel people: M240 machine gun dispels people quite nicely. :D

(Figure M240 is about 2d6+1K, autofire x 10, AE, and continuing to simulate supression fire, and I'd call that a People B Gone power.)

:rofl:
hehe

[Dust Raven]

I don't see as there is any real difference. If the AI is in direct control of the Automaton, what does it matter, "who's," Ego it is?

From a SFX standpoint, I agree. But from a mechanic's standpoint, it's the AI's EGO, and also from a mechanical standpoint, the AI is treated as a seperate entity from the Automaton. You could kill the Automaton but still have an active AI and vice versa (unless one or the other was bought with a Disad stating otherwise).