Comeliness: Yay, nay or indifferent

[nexus]

SImple question. 6th Edition, keep Com, drop it, modify it, don't care?

EDIT:FORGOT THE DANG POLL!!!

[Black Lotus]

Yea to keeping COM.

[Fox1]

Keep

[Solomon]

I'd rather have it handled like a Perk, but it's a very low-priority thing.

[yamamura]

Keep.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Keep.
I would like to see at least a bit more of a nod to ways to use Com in game terms (without making it too useful or worth more).

[Hermit]

Keep.
I would like to see at least a bit more of a nod to ways to use Com in game terms (without making it too useful or worth more).

I lean towards this myself.

[Trebuchet]

I like it as is, although I would not be terribly upset if it were reflected with a Perk instead. Either way, I think it represents a useful ability.

I would also like to see some official uses for COM, such as complimentary Skill roll bonuses to interactive Skills such as Seduction and Bureaucratics.

[prestidigitator]

Keep it. I conider Com to be similar to a Persistant form of Pre. It cannot be used for Skills and such except in a Complimentary fashion, but can substitute for them in a limited fashion when the character hasn't had a chance to socially interact with someone.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

keep, and even use more of!

[McCoy]

Keep. I like that there is a stat that has so little effect on game play that the few points going to it are for pure characterization. It's a reliable indicator to tell the role players from the rules mechanics.

[Lord Mhoram]

Keep.

[Vondy]

I don't see a need to change it, and it does keep the number of primary stats even. On the other hand, I'm not married to it and have toyed with the idea of making it a perk. As it is, its too much trouble and I try to keep my list of house rules to a minimum.

[Edsel]

Keep it as is.

[Agent X]

Yay on yay.
Nay on nay.
Nay on indifferent.

[Lord Liaden]

I like it as is, although I would not be terribly upset if it were reflected with a Perk instead. Either way, I think it represents a useful ability.

I would also like to see some official uses for COM, such as complimentary Skill roll bonuses to interactive Skills such as Seduction and Bureaucratics.

That's pretty much my position as well. BTW 5E does suggest a Complimentary Skill bonus to Interaction Skills from COM rolls as an option, but doesn't go into detail. Perhaps The Ultimate Skill will explore that more.

Like lots of folks here, I've devised my own house rules for Comeliness to give it more utility, and to create a detriment to buying it back. I wanted to work as much as possible within the precedent of present (and past) HERO rules, and make as little change as necessary to existing character writeups.

In my approach, each point of COM above 10 adds one point to a character's Presence score for purposes of Presence Attacks which are not based on fear, i.e. that distract, persuade or inspire. That increase to PRE also applies to calculating the Skill Roll for Interaction Skills when the GM decides that physical attractiveness would be appropriate. Conversely, each point of COM below 10 would subtract one point of PRE from a character's score for the same purposes, under the same circumstances.

This makes Comeliness function like a Limited form of Presence, with the distinction of also affecting a character negatively if the Characteristic is bought back. Essentially a character would have two PRE scores, applicable based on the situation. In practice I've found that using COM this way has virtually no effect on combat (except possibly in a limited "rally the troops" fashion), but can have a significant impact on noncombat situations.

[Super Squirrel]

I say keep the COM. If you don't like it, just sell back the stat for more points something else.

[Deejmeister]

I would also like to see some official uses for COM, such as complimentary Skill roll bonuses to interactive Skills such as Seduction and Bureaucratics.

It already is.

Put me in the "It should work like a perk" column.

[Fitz]

I'd dump it from Primary Stats, and make it a Perk/Disad if the player wants it to have any in-game effect.

[Dust Raven]

Keep it.

If it was dropped, we'd need to replace it with something or else have only 7 primary characteristics... and there is just something unbalanced about that.

[Mister E]

I like the COM as it is. Keep it. Use it. Love it. It is what it is, and I've never had a problem with it.

AS A SIDE NOTE: I don't have my books on me, right now, but I remember being disappointed with the COM of a few of the supposedly hideous NPC villains in the game... like the Monster, for instance. Shouldn't character like the Monster, by definition, have Negative Comliness?

[Lord Zod]

Keep it.

Sure some people make it their dump stat, but even they won't go too low or risk the indignity of mouthy NPCs telling them that they are ugly.

If you were going to drop it, or turn it into a perk, why not make it a talent instead? It could work a bit like the "Double Jointed" talent, giving the character bonuses to certain skills under certain circumstances, say Persuasion or Seduction for the attractive and Interrogation or Persuasion attempts based on intimidation for the ugly. Distinctive Features also fits.

I use negative comliness for alot of horror game monsters, couldn't do without it. An NPC with negative comliness is a player favorite in my Star Hero game. "DOX IS SCARY!"

[Lord Zod]

keep, and even use more of!

This from a guy who played a character with the psychological limitation "Must slap ugly women." :rolleyes:

To bad that he's never met one.

:slap:

[GrayPumpkin]

Keep it.

[Dust Raven]

Sure some people make it their dump stat, but even they won't go too low or risk the indignity of mouthy NPCs telling them that they are ugly.

I can't speak for others, but I never use COM as a "dump stat." It's an insurance program, savings account and heroic ability all in one. Let me explain. Whenever I make a character, the first thing I do is buy their COM to 20 (or higher, if "good looking" is part of the character concept). Then I make the rest of the character. Should I, toward finishing up the character, come up a point or three short of some Skill or Perk necessary to the character's concept, I can fall back and drop some of that COM. Should I not, then blammo! I have an awesome looking character.

[Agent X]

I like comeliness and couldn't care less how much real impact it has on the game. In Mayfair's DC game they had what essentially would be called a perk in HERO to cover the concept of comeliness. The only problem is that doesn't really allow for any differentiation in good looking people. If you're beautiful, you're beautiful with a perk. If you can buy the perk multiple times then it's basically comeliness only listed somewhere else.

Comeliness is cool. When the flying super-strong energy blaster mocks your character because his CV and Damage Classes are higher than yours. Your character can respond with, "At least I'm better looking." :)

[Super Squirrel]

I really like comeliness as I have stated in the past. Null completely takes out a villain on her own, stands over the defeated villain and says, "...and I looked better in a dress too!"

Comeliness is good for trash talking and determining who in a crowd gets the attention when PRE just doesn't cut it.

I have also designed powers with limitations based on Comeliness such as "Won't affect people with >20 COM" This is also something that can be used on disadvantages. Psych Limit: Can't Hit a Pretty Face. Pretty being defined as COM 16 or higher.

[Dust Raven]

I like comeliness and couldn't care less how much real impact it has on the game. In Mayfair's DC game they had what essentially would be called a perk in HERO to cover the concept of comeliness. The only problem is that doesn't really allow for any differentiation in good looking people. If you're beautiful, you're beautiful with a perk. If you can buy the perk multiple times then it's basically comeliness only listed somewhere else.

That's gotta be the main reason I've never liked the perk/talent/advantage/extra/whatever like mechanic for looking good. You at most have 2 levels of it, and that's it. You are either average, above average, or really above average, with nothing to differientiate between any two really above average and no way to surpass it.

[Guzalot]

Keep it. As others have said, it has excellent roleplay value and there are definite lvels of it. ie 0-4=hideous; 6=ugly; 8=plain; 10=average; 12-14=above average but not classicly handsome/beautiful; 16=handsome/beautiful; 18=model good looks; 20=supermodel; 22+ = :jawdrop:

[Enforcer84]

Keep it. It's always been there. I like it just fine. Take your ugly angsty self elswhere:D

[Black Lotus]

I propose we scrap the current system altogether! Hee! Here are my recommendations for how to do it through Perks and Disads!

Perks:

The Love Doctor 10 pts
So Sexy It Hurts 8 pts
Too Sexy For My Shirt 6 pts
Cute as a Button 4 pts
Sorta Good-Looking 2 pts

Disads:

Kinda Homely -2 pts
Face Only a Mother Could Love -4 pts
Uglier Than a Wet Chicken in a Hog Waller -6pts
Women and Children Flee You On Sight -8 pts
Men Flee you On Sight, Too -10 pts

On second thought... let's keep COM. :thumbup:

[Jeff T.]

Yay.

I enjoy the fact that there is a characteristic in HERO with no hard 'statistical' or 'metagame' value. Yet even the biggest numbers cruncher out there always seems to set aside those all-important COM points. Ah...vanity. :D

[AliceTheOwl]

Pretty being defined as COM 16 or higher.
Well, that explains a lot, actually . . . No wonder you and I have such different expectations, if THAT's your criterion.

Would it put things in perspective any to know that I'd stat my real-life COM at an 8, hon?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

[Dr. Anomaly]

I like it fine as-is, and if it were removed, I'd likely house-rule it back in with exactly the same costs, etc. After all, it's not like it has any direct influence on the game NOW... ;)

But I also wholeheartedly agree with this:

I would also like to see some official uses for COM, such as complimentary Skill roll bonuses to interactive Skills such as Seduction and Bureaucratics.

[Mentor]

Keep Comliness.

Failure to get any use out of it is poor roleplaying or poor GMing. That having been said, it only costs 1/2 point, so it is going to be one of the least effective buys.

[Troll]

Keep COM. My current gaming group includes 3 women and 2 men. The women, my wife in particular, all buy as much COM as possible. In fact many of my villians aren't judge on how powerful they are, but on what thier COM is. Yippie!

[Mike W]

I like keeping COM. I think it is important to separate Charsima(PRE) and Looks(COM). I do like the idea of using COM as complimentary to certain skills like Seduction or PS: Model as a way for it to be useful and worth the points. I usually try to play the press as more likely to flock around the "beautiful" heroes as well.

[Brother Jim]

keep it




but add some stuff for it to do......but not too much, it's only 1/2 a point per stat point after all

[Kristopher]

Keep it.

[BobGreenwade]

Keep.
I would like to see at least a bit more of a nod to ways to use Com in game terms (without making it too useful or worth more).This is my thought on the question precisely.

Maybe some specific mechanics for COM could show up in The Ultimate Metamorph. ;)

[zornwil]

I tend towards keeping it simply because I like it and I think it can be used. However, it's a low priority and I can see addressing it other ways - and from a purist rules perspective had in the past waffled either way, tending more towards perks lately as that does seem consistent HOWEVER...

let me say this that I think influences it a bit more. RDU Neil has suggested, and I agree, that points are very much about control. The points the player spends and where he spends them signifies where he is taking control in the environment, and the points given back are ceding control to the GM. Not that it's all about this, but it is a primary effect, I believe.

Now think about that in COM terms - what we are saying, then, is we have a low/no value stat (depending a lot on how people play it) but we are giving the players COMPLETE control over it! I say this because of the level of granularity given to players for this - any player can build their character to fit among the others as they so choose, with no ability for other characters or even the GM to say "Well, you're effectively the same" which would well be true with Perks and how they normally are done, but is never true with an open-ended char which a player can always point to and say, at least, "My character is 1 point prettier than Fred's!" And as people have said here, players do buy it up. And think about what we're emulating...heroic fiction, which has no such ranking, but which people love to talk about the relative comeliness of their heroines and heroes. So we get an, at worst, throwaway stat that gives the players 100% control (at inception, anyway) and models the importance of appearance in the source material.

So I think a true case can be made to keep it, as I now think about it.

[Dust Raven]

Keep COM. My current gaming group includes 3 women and 2 men. The women, my wife in particular, all buy as much COM as possible. In fact many of my villians aren't judge on how powerful they are, but on what thier COM is. Yippie!

Now that could be an interesting system.

Requisite buys for villains:

Thoughtless mook: COM 8
Average Thug: 10
Thug Leader/Low-Level Henchman: 12
Gang-Leader/Master Villain Henchman: 14
Master Villain Lieutanant/Local Crime Boss: 16
Master Villain's Right Hand Man/Power Behind the Local Crime Boss: 18
Master Villain: 20
Powerful Master Villain: 22+

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

This from a guy who played a character with the psychological limitation "Must slap ugly women." :rolleyes:

To bad that he's never met one.

:slap:

hey, i did slap one woman, back in erdol