Published Units?

[Monolith]

I was reading an interview with Ryan Dancey earlier and he made reference to Star Wars outselling every other non-D&D game, specifically mentioning Hero, Buffy, and Exalted. This then got me thinking about how he would get sales figures dealing with those 3 products. Do distributors or some other group (GAMA) release sales figures to publishers? Does every publisher know how many units their competitors sell, or is that information kept secret? Is Ryan Dancey just guesstimating sales figures, or does he have hard facts to back him up?

I’m certainly not disputing that a popular product like Star Wars would not outsell Hero (many non-gamer Star Wars fans would buy the book for the information), I am just curious as to whether his statements are based in fact or conjecture. How secretive is the game publishing industry?

[Crimson-Hawk]

I read the same interview. Although I was appreciative that Ryan would give a nod to HERO 5th (he did mention it was selling well, but attributed it to an established fan-base), now that I've read your words, Monolith, I have to wonder the same thing.

Darren and Steve are usually quite vague about the company's financial success. Although they'll readily admit that a book is selling as expected or greater than expected or that the company is making enough to pay salaries and debtors, they never come straight out with hard, solid figures. I accepted that such information was proprietory information and not kosher to ask about (much like asking a lady her age, weight, or measurements).

I, too, wonder if Ryan has access to proprietory information that perhaps he should not have.

Just my two-cents worth. Take it as you will.

[Derek Hiemforth]

He may not have exact figures, and still be correct. I can look at a car and a bicycle, and know that the car is heavier, even if I don't know the exact weight of the bicycle. It may simply be so obvious that the Star Wars RPG is outselling other titles that he doesn't need exact numbers in order to see it. For example, if Star Wars is moving tens of thousands of units through major mass-market retailers outside the adventure game niche (like Barnes and Noble), while Hero, Buffy, and Exalted don't have a similar mass-market presence, then it may be a forgone conclusion that Star Wars is selling more, even if Dancey doesn't know exactly how much the others are selling. And this could be true even if they're outselling Star Wars in the adventure game channels.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Ouch! Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, Derek. :(

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Crimson-Hawk
Ouch! Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, Derek. :( Huh??? :confused: I'm not upset at all! :)

Are you referring to the bold at the end? That wasn't meant to express anger... just emphasis on the idea. :) All I meant was that if we (the gaming community) don't see Star Wars outselling some other games in the adventure game market (your FLGS), it might still be outselling them overall. I just think that's interesting. I think it's an odd idea that an RPG line could be outselling other RPG lines based on it selling outside normal RPG channels. It almost raises the spectre of whether an RPG could become so appealing to the mainstream that the greater sales possible there lead the game's publisher to abandon the traditional RPG market. While some RPGs have had crossover appeal and mass-market presence, I don't think any have ever been so successful in the mainstream market that they ended up failing in (or abandoning) the adventure game market. I wonder if that's even possible?

[Steve Long]

I suspect either:

1. Ryan is making an educated guess -- and undoubtedly an accurate one. I certainly don't dispute his conclusion.

2. Ryan has friends at one or more distributors that told him how many copies they sold of 5E (which they're fully entitled to do). Any one of the major distributors' data would give him enough info to base an estimate on, easy.

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by Steve Long
2. Ryan has friends at one or more distributors that told him how many copies they sold of 5E (which they're fully entitled to do). Any one of the major distributors' data would give him enough info to base an estimate on, easy.

Ah! I figured there was legal issues behind giving out such information. But once again, an assumption I've held was wrong. ;)

You guys are used to that now, right? :)

And, thanks, Derek, for reassuring me. That means more to me than you could ever know. (Look up "social phobia disorder" on the Net and you might see what I mean.)

[TheEmerged]

I know there's no way to compile it but -- I personally would LOVE to see statistics on whether those purchased units actually went to customers and whether those customers are actually using the system. Every copy of the WotC Star Wars I know of is sitting unused on a shelf -- either that of a friend's, or the store.

Interesting side crack: on WotC's boards, anytime HERO wins an award (usually a voting one), people talk about the rabidity of HERO's "small" fan base. On the HERO boards, people attack WotC and the people running HERO defend them :D

[rjcurrie]

Well, Emerged, that's going to be true for a lot of game books, including Hero stuff.

[KA.]

Originally posted by Crimson-Hawk
Ah! I figured there was legal issues behind giving out such information. But once again, an assumption I've held was wrong. ;)


Don't feel bad, Crimson-Hawk.
The sad truth is that you just can't trust an assumption!
Oh, they may act all friendly, and let you hold them for a while, but sooner or later, they will let you down.
Why?
Because they are often wrong.

We have all found ourselves, on a lonely winter night, holding an assumption. Often, when we wake up the next morning, we find that the assumption has left, without even leaving a note.

But you can't let that make you feel cheap!

Eventually, when you start associating with a better class of information, you will find yourself attracted to hypotheses, theories, and someday you may even find a fact that you can settle down with and call your own.:D

Just kidding C-H, I must be having a "Phantom Tollbooth" flashback!

KA