Superman

[Hawksmoor]

This is my version of Superman. No he is not *complete* if I ever need to pull him out for real there is a serious problem with my game. As such his Knowledges and Languages are undefined.

My interesting idea is that Superman (and all Kryptonians/Daxamites) are OIHID characters that simply have as their power up the presence of the yellow (or greater suns). Superman also has an automatic Accidental change when confronted by Kryptonite.

What do you guys think?


SUPERMAN
Val Char Cost Roll Notes
20/125 STR 10 13- / 34- Lift 400.0kg/838.9ktons; 4d6/25d6; [2/7]
18/45 DEX 24 13- / 18- OCV 6/15 DCV 6/15
20/50 CON 20 13- / 19-
18/28 BODY 16 13- / 15-
25 INT 15 14- PER Roll 14-
30 EGO 40 15- ECV: 10
40 PRE 30 17- PRE Attack: 8d6
16 COM 3 12-

10/65 PD 6 Total: 10/65 PD (10/65 rPD)
10/65 ED 6 Total: 10/65 ED (10/65 rED)
4/9 SPD 12 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12/2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12
8/45 REC 0
50/210 END 5
45/148 STUN 7 Total Characteristic Cost: 204


Movement: Running: 9"/59" / 144"/944"
Swimming: 5"/55" / 80"/880"
Leaping: 5"/80" / 40"/640"
Flight: 60" / 120"
Tunneling: 20" / 40"

Cost Powers END


Solar charged cells, all slots Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4)
87 1) Super Strength: +105 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (131 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) 5
40 2) Superstamina: +30 CON (60 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4)
13 3) Invulnerable: +10 BODY (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4)

Solar Charged Cells II, all slots OIHID (-1/4)
40 1) Superspeed: +27 DEX (81 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIHID (-1/4),
40 2) Faster than a Speeding Bullet: +5 SPD (50 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
3 3) Bulletproof: +4 PD (4 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
15 4) Bulletproof: +19 ED (19 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
16 5) Rapid Rebound: +10 REC (20 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
40 6) Solar Absorbtion: +100 END (50 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
20 7) Invulnerable: +25 STUN (25 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4)
28 8) Bulletproof: Damage Resistance (35 PD/35 ED) (35 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 0
7 9) Invulnerable: Hardened (+1/4) for up to 35 Active Points of PD (9 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 1
7 10) Invulnerable: Hardened (+1/4) for up to 35 Active Points of ED (9 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 1

Invulnerability, all slots Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4)
29 1) Sealed Systems and Sytemic Antidote: LS (Eating: Character only has to eat once per week; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Longevity: 800 Years; Safe Environment: Zero Gravity; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (44 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) 0
115 2) Invulnerability: (Total: 172 Active Cost, 115 Real Cost) Armor (30 PD/30 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (112 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 75) plus Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20) plus Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20) 0
53 3) Braced for Impact: (Total: 80 Active Cost, 53 Real Cost) Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20) plus +10 with a group of similar Skills (50 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 33) 0

125 Heat Vision: Multipower, 187-point reserve, (187 Active Points); all slots OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4)
7u 1) Flash Vision: EB 15d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (112 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4) 0
7u 2) Flash Vision: EB 9d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (12" Cone; +1) (101 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4) 4
8u 3) Flash Vision: EB 13d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (114 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4) 5
12u 4) Flash Vision: RKA 10d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (187 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4) 7
2u 5) Flash Vision: Missile Deflection (Bullets & Shrapnel), Full Range (+1) (30 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4) 0

150 Superspeed: Multipower, 187-point reserve, (187 Active Points); all slots OIHID (-1/4)
9u 1) Super Speed: Running +50" (9"/59" total), x16 Noncombat (115 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 11
5u 2) Super Speed: Swimming +50" (5"/55" total) (x16 Noncombat) (65 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 6
10u 3) Super Speed Digging: Tunneling 20" through 30 DEF material (130 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 13
2u 4) Super Speed: Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Conditional Power Power does not work in Common Circumstances (Only when making a full move; -1/2), OIHID (-1/4) 0
15u 5) One man construction crew: Major Transform 10d6 (Machines into component parts, Repairs), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (187 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 7
7u 6) Super-fast blows over and over again: HA +9d6, Autofire (10 shots; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (135 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) 0

90 Strength Tricks: Multipower, 112-point reserve, (112 Active Points); all slots OIHID (-1/4)
9u 1) Able to Leap Tall Buildings in a single bound: Leaping +75" (4"/100" forward, 2"/50" upward) (Accurate, x8 Noncombat), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (112 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 4
7u 2) Super Strength: HKA 6d6 (7d6+1 / 12d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (112 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Not vs. Magic; -1/4), OIHID (-1/4) 4
3u 3) Ultra-Strength Wrap up: Entangle 8d6, 8 DEF (80 Active Points); Def based on materials at hand Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), OIF (Weapon of Opportunity; -1/2), OIHID (-1/4) 8
6u 4) Ultra-Strength Object Sweep: Area Of Effect Nonselective (up to 23" Cone; +3/4) for up to 110 Active Points of STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (102 Active Points); OIF (Object of Opportunity; -1/2), OIHID (-1/4) 4
9u 5) Superbreath: EB 8d6, Double Knockback (+3/4), Area Of Effect (15" Cone; +1) (110 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 11
5u 6) Superbreath: Dispel Flame, Fire and Gas based powers 18d6, Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; +1/4) (67 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 7

100 Flight through force of will: Multipower, 125-point reserve, (125 Active Points); all slots OIHID (-1/4)
10u 1) Is it a bird? Is it a Plane? I: Flight 50", Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (125 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 5
4u 2) To the Moon and Back: Flight 10", MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (45 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) 4

Supersenses, all slots OIHID (-1/4)
66 1) Super Vision: (Total: 82 Active Cost, 66 Real Cost) IR Perception (Sight Group), Discriminatory, Analyze (15 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 12) plus UV Perception (Sight Group), Discriminatory, Analyze (15 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 12) plus N-Ray Perception (Sight Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc Of Perception (240 Degrees) (22 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18) plus +10 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group (10 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus +10 PER with Sight Group (20 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 16) 0
66 2) Super-Hearing: (Total: 83 Active Cost, 66 Real Cost) +10 PER with Hearing Group (20 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 16) plus Radio Perception, Discriminatory, Analyze (18 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc Of Perception (240 Degrees) (15 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 12) plus +10 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group (10 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus Targeting with Hearing Group (20 Active Points); OIHID (-1/4) (Real Cost: 16) 0



Perks
3 Well-Connected
29 1) Contact: Members and Allies of the Justice League (Current and Former) (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own), Organization Contact (x3) (30 Active Points) 14-
32 2) Contact: US Government (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact), Organization Contact (x3) (33 Active Points) 13-
12 3) Contact: The Batman (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact) (13 Active Points) 15-
3 4) Contact: Perry White (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has useful Skills or resources, Contact limited by identity) (4 Active Points) 12-
35 5) Contact: Superman 'Family" Supergirl, Con El, Steel, The Eradicator, etc (Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact), Organization Contact (x3) (36 Active Points) 15-

100 Fortress of Solitude
12 Reputation: World's Greatest Hero (A large group) 14-, +4/+4d6

1 Money: Well Off
1 Fringe Benefit: Pulitzer Prize Winner: Custom Adder
1 Fringe Benefit: Press Pass


Talents
4 Environmental Movement (no penalties on zero g)
4 Environmental Movement (no penalties on heavy gravity)
4 Environmental Movement (no penalties on low gravity)


Skills
20 +4 with HTH Combat
15 +3 with Ranged Combat
3 Bureaucratics 17-
3 Computer Programming 14-
3 Criminology 14-
3 Conversation 17-
3 Deduction 14-
3 Interrogation 17-
3 Linguist
2 1) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 2) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 3) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 4) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 5) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 6) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 7) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 8) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 9) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
2 10) Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points)
3 Lipreading 14-

3 Mechanics 14-
7 Oratory 19-
3 Paramedics 14-
3 Persuasion 17-
3 Power: Kryptnian Abilities 14-
3 Power: Strength Tricks 14-
4 PS: Reporter 15-
5 PS: Novelist 16-
5 Rapid Attack (HTH)
3 Scholar
2 1) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 2) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 3) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 4) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 5) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 6) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
2 7) KS: General Knowledge (3 Active Points) 14-
3 SS: Kryptonian Technology 14-
3 Systems Operation 14-
3 Teamwork 13- (18-)






Total Powers & Skill Cost: 1669
Total Cost: 1873

1103+ Disadvantages
590 Greatest Hero Experience Bonus
5 Accidental Change: Lack of Red Sun Radiation 8- (Uncommon)
20 Accidental Change: Exposure to Kryptonite Always (Uncommon)
10 DNPC: Lois Lane 11- (Normal; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills)
10 DNPC: Jimmy Olson 8- (Normal; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)
20 Hunted: Lex Luthor 11- (As Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
15 Hunted: Darkseid 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Harshly Punish)
15 Psychological Limitation: Code Vs. Killing (Common, Strong)
15 Psychological Limitation: Liberty Truth and the American Way (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Psychological Limitation: Dodging? What is that? (Must make a EGO roll to use more that 1/2 DCV versus any attack) (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Social Limitation: Secret Identity (Very Frequently, Minor)
20 Social Limitation: Mantle of the World's Greatest Hero (Very Frequently, Major)
20 Susceptibility: Exposure to Kryptonite, 3d6 damage per Turn (Uncommon)
0 Experience Points

Total Disadvantage Points: 1873

[Hawksmoor]

Wow...

I am underwhelmed 21 views other than me an not even a "Ewww! Krytonian Munchkin!" comment.

Hawksmoor

[Enforcer84]

No the Kryptonian munchkin is the woman who was a Kryptonian "Ninja"...:angst:

This looks cool, but its long. It's as if this guy has had a 75 year career or something.

[Hawksmoor]

No the Kryptonian munchkin is the woman who was a Kryptonian "Ninja"...:angst:

Or better a Kryptonian Cyborg Mutant Ninja with Jedi Powers! :nonp:


This looks cool, but its long. It's as if this guy has had a 75 year career or something.

Close...1938 was the issue of Action Comics #1 so he is a youthful 72!

Hawksmoor

[darthvegita666]

No the Kryptonian munchkin is the woman who was a Kryptonian "Ninja"...:angst:

This looks cool, but its long. It's as if this guy has had a 75 year career or something.

woah thats so cool i wanna play a kryptonian ninja

ninja vanish
ninja stars
ninja heat vision man thats awesome

[LoresLost]

No the Kryptonian munchkin is the woman who was a Kryptonian "Ninja"...

Are we talk an actual Superman comic charicater (There are two that come to mind, Faora Hu-Ul, mass murder of men on Krypton (comic book) and Ursa (Superman II movie). Or someone else?

[Kirby]

Why OIHID? :confused: Plus, he has lots of generic languages there.

[darthvegita666]

Why OIHID? :confused: Plus, he has lots of generic languages there.
its like maybe you should read the whole post and not just look at the end

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I'm not sure his stats should be affected by OIHID or not vs. Magic. There might be a case for weaker defenses vs. Magic, but otherwise I don't think magic would change Superman's stats at all.

Rob

[Tim]

Instead of OIHID, It make the effects of not being under a yellow sun a Dependence. For every hour (or less) not under a yellow sun, get drained 2d6 to all powers and str.

[Kirby]

its like maybe you should read the whole post and not just look at the end
Perhaps you should not assume. And take grammar lessons. If you see an explanation, post it. Neither OIHID nor the 10 languages (none of them specified) are at the end of the post. :rolleyes:

[Hawksmoor]

Alright this is the part where I explain my build.

First, I have to go back and correct the DEX power. It should not be Not vs. Magic.

Alright now that I am done with that I can explain.

I thought long and hard, about 8 years actually, on how to build Superman/Mon-El without resorting to false limitations like Not Under a Red Sun -1/4, or Not in the Presence of Kryptonite -1/4. Then the thought struck me; how does a normal red sun Kryptonian/Daxamite gain powers? Under a yellow sun. When exposed they gain tremendous abilities they did not possess before. This sounded an awful lot like Only in Hero ID to me. In fact looking further more information made this assertion completely gel for me.

Superman never flies away from Kryptonite, he never melts the roof with his heat vision to block it with debris. He always slumps and borders on unconsciousness. Why? Because the Kryptonite forces him to revert to normal Clark Kent/Kal-El.

Superman's powers ebb when he is deprived from the solar energy produced by a star like Earth. In time he eventually becomes a normal, albeit tough, humanoid. Again the SFX looked a lot like OIHID.

Dependence is nice and works, one way. We need a mechanic that can power up a race, two actually: we need OIHID.

Now as to the generic knowledges and languages. I will eventually fill those in. I just assume Superman has a lot of basic knowledge as one of the DCUs smartest people, plus he has conversational fluency in nearly every common tongue on the planet. I just handwave it for now.

Did that make sense?

Hawksmoor

[Hawksmoor]

I'm not sure his stats should be affected by OIHID or not vs. Magic. There might be a case for weaker defenses vs. Magic, but otherwise I don't think magic would change Superman's stats at all.

Rob

OK go with this.

Superman is wrapped up in a chain. What does he do?

He bursts free.

Next:

Superman is wrapped up in a chain *enchanted* by a magician. What does he do?

He strains but does not burst free.

Superman has no more or less power than a muscular human when confronted by Magic. Hence his STR drops.

His CON dropping is the fact that while he has loads of STUN a magical attack stuns him quite often.

Hawksmoor

[TaxiMan]

I have no problem with the writeup, as Supes is likely a plot device. If he isn't, do you want the players to take OIHID for stuff like "only works when in a gravity field" or "hero form occurs if it's after the birth of Christ"? Devising a game could be tough under those circumstances.

[Kirby]

Did that make sense?
The reasoning of the limitation makes sense, yes; however, I would disagree with it being Only in Hero ID. By definition, it is for someone who has two identities. "Obviously, only characters who maintain two distinct identities (for example, it is commonly used by superheroes who maintain a secret identity) can use this Limitation." (FREd, p. 197) I see OiHID being more for a Billy Batson on this power scale. Also, when Superman is Clark Kent, he still has his ability.

Having stated that, I think a -1/4 limitation would be appropriate regarding only under a yellow sun and not versus kryptonite, because, while both are rare occurrances (and might be a -0), combined I see them as -1/4, since issues do exist where this has become problematic.

The magic is a good limitation. I had made a Valor clone character years ago in a LoSH campaign; the GM wouldn't allow me to take two -1/4 limitations on my stats, so I chose 2X Vulnerabilities/Effects instead, but I do like yours better.

As for the languages, I don't recall Superman speaking that many (for some reason, I only remember maybe 1?), but it has been years since I've read his titles.

[Guzalot]

To me OIHID means he actualy has to "activate" his powers somehow, even if it is only a zero phase action.

[OddHat]

In similar cases I've used a generic "Restrainable: Not By Means of Grabs or Entangles" limit, for the same -1/4. The definition for a Kryptonians version of restrainable would then be "When exposed to Red Sun radiation, Green Kryptonite, and in other rare situations". Magic I'd handle by not buying Kryptonians any power or mental defense (Supes used to get drained, transformed, and mentally screwed with all the time) and by adding the Not Versus Magic limit to his Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction.

All of this will vary from writer to writer and GM to GM; the above is just one take on it.

[darthvegita666]

Perhaps you should not assume. And take grammar lessons. If you see an explanation, post it. Neither OIHID nor the 10 languages (none of them specified) are at the end of the post. :rolleyes:
i said its NOT at the end of the post

LEARN TO READ

its at the beginning where he said 'i dont want to bother with languages' and 'only in hero id is for when his powers are turned off'

[Kirby]

i said its NOT at the end of the post
:rolleyes: Actually, what you stated was "its [sic] like maybe you should read the whole post and not just look at the end [sic]" To which I responded, "Neither OIHID nor the 10 languages (none of them specified) are at the end of the post."

LEARN TO READ
Learn to comprehend. My reply to your statement was that I didn't read just the end because neither the languages nor the Limitation was there.

its at the beginning where he said 'i dont want to bother with languages' and 'only in hero id is for when his powers are turned off'
If you would stop to think, as well as read my other post, you would note that I was inferring to the reasoning of OiHID (which I do not see as the appropriate Limitation), along with stating I didn't recall Superman knowing that many languages.

If you cannot contribute to a thread, but only intend to pollute it, do not bother.

[Vondy]

OHID isn't the best way to do this (based on the write up of the lim in the book). Instead, I would recommend:

Not in the presence of kryptonite -1/4
Not versus magic -1/4

You end up with the same effect, with a more internally orthodox approach, and get a better and still reasonable (not munchinesque) savings.

[OddHat]

I always thought the susceptability disadvantage should have a weakness aspect like dependence does. Then you could increase the dice and have Supes nailed by kryptonite without needing all the limitations. Something like:

6d6 Susceptability to Kryptonite [weakness to all powers/characteristics] per segment.

Then you can throw on a second susceptability to kryptonite that will kill him over a longer periods of time.

Yup, that's official in 5thER (p.339). Using a limitation is a way to simulate instant shutdown, but a 6d6 per segment drain vs all powers would do the job.

[OddHat]

[but draining one things is not the same as draining all things. For that you need a +2 advantage]

The actual rule is that the GM can switch Stun damage for any attack power, at 10 active points per die; applying a +2 vs. all powers advantage to the attack is fine. You could also do it as a transformation attack, or use multiple effects.

There's almost always more than one approach.

[Hawksmoor]

Yet Accidental Change gives you an immediate or progressive powers off option.

Yes, Susceptability and Dependence are options but Accidental Change/OIHID are elegant and don't provide munchkinism.

OTOH, to use OIHID takes a bit of flexiblity in reading the text. For me it is the same as OIHID Powered Armors, or OIHID Thors/ Captain Marvel. Why? Because in a game with Superman or the like PC the GM is going to find ways to make that -1/4 limitation crop up and render Superman mortal...mostly.

Hawksmoor

[Hawksmoor]

To me OIHID means he actualy has to "activate" his powers somehow, even if it is only a zero phase action.

What do you call sudden exposure to Yellow Sun Radiation? Or getting Starman to give him a recharge after being drained by the Parasite?

These are Clark Kent getting his 0 phase action to turn into Superman. Yes, he spends the vast majority of the time as a superhero with powers, but not so rarely he gets his powers removed, albeit temporarily.

Then there is the why don't Daxamites/Kryptonians have powers at home. Answer because they can't activate their OIHID because there is a negating factor. Remove that negating factor and whammo Super Powers!

Hawksmoor

[Hawksmoor]

It's not the same to me because Thor/Captain Marvel can be caught with their pants down, so to speak. The limitation can be enforced in different ways with them. With Supes it can only be enforced with kryptonite/magic.

Which turn up with about the same frequency as Superman gets his powers negated by his vulnerability. It is all in the balances the GM thinks he can toss at the character. From what I see the frequency of enforcement runs about the same for straight from the book OIHID as it does for Superman's vulnerabilities.

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

Yeah, my point was that a 1d6 drain with a +2 advantage is a 30 ap power, not a 10 ap power. I'd also rather not get into using specific powers within the disadvantage. When you do that then you need to start thinking about specific defenses. A Susceptability should be beyond the concept of defenses. I'd just prefer they include a weakness aspect to the disadvantage. That way you can say something like: Each d6 does either stun or weakness damage. And you should also be able to have more than 3d6.

Um...yes? If you take this route, you'll be giving him a massive disad. As he's already an NPC, that isn't a problem. It might be a problem if he were a PC, but in a game with 1000+ point PCs the GM should feel free to relax disadvantage caps a bit. As to bypassing defenses, I'd rule that a drain from susceptability ignores power defense in the same way that a drain from a Side Effect ignores power defense; ymmv.

[OddHat]

Yet Accidental Change gives you an immediate or progressive powers off option.

Yes, Susceptability and Dependence are options but Accidental Change/OIHID are elegant and don't provide munchkinism.

The -1/4 version of restrainable works as well. Munhkinism isn't a problem if he's an NPC; he has as many points as the GM feels like giving him. If I had PC Kryptonians it might become a factor, but then I might do it as a physical limit (Powers do not work at all under infrequent circumstances, greatly impairing); feels less munchkiny to me than a -1/4 limit on everything.

[OddHat]

I really don't have a problem with disads being expensive. Most well-established characters, pc or npc, have disads in excess of the 50 point threshold. People like Superman and Batman have hunteds which exceed 100 points. Not all game limits make sense or need to be enforced, IMO.

Agreed. I don't use hard point caps on disads or powers as such in my campaigns; instead I look at the effect that the power or disad will have in play and go from there. I do sometimes think about point caps when posting something to the boards or such; helps avoid rules arguments. ;)

[Kirby]

Then there is the why don't Daxamites/Kryptonians have powers at home.
For half of this is because Kryptonians no longer have a home.

Answer because they can't activate their OIHID because there is a negating factor.
But how many Daxamites are superheroes on their home planet? They don't decide to become supers on their home planet, they do it elsewhere.

Remove that negating factor and whammo Super Powers!
But that's not a sudden "whammo." Chances are, they're going to know they're leaving a yellow sun environment.

FYI: OiHID is supposed to take a full phase or longer for the change, so there *shouldn't* be a 0-phase change, otherwise it wouldn't be worth a limitation.

Like it's been said, it's your creation and you can do the writeup how you wish, but you not only asked what we thought, but made a comment about being surprised no one responded. Now we're just saying we don't like that limitation, but do agree with the limitation amount.

[Hawksmoor]

:Grin: I am merely trying to explain why I think it works.

I dislike the Not under a Red Sun limitation variants. I think that a 1800+ point character should not simply be negated by a Physical Limitation.

That said I like the options presented. I would prefer more analysis of the powerset though.

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

I think that a 1800+ point character should not simply be negated by a Physical Limitation.

I don't mind; that's why it's worth points as a disadvantage. ;)

[Hawksmoor]

But then I get clunky constructs like the 1500+ point Magistrate Lornor Hess of Daxam. All the powers of Superman, some baseline powers actually stronger, but can't access them because of a Physical Limitation?

Nah!

I'll go with OIHID.

Hawksmoor

[OddHat]

But then I get clunky constructs like the 1500+ point Magistrate Lornor Hess of Daxam. All the powers of Superman, some baseline powers actually stronger, but can't access them because of a Physical Limitation?

Nah!

I'll go with OIHID.

I'll go with restrainable at -1/4, or a phys limit.

As to great powers not available due to a phys limit, how many people can exert their upper body strength with dislocated shoulders? ;)

[Hawksmoor]

Hmmm. I missed that one.

Restrainable...

I think I like it.

Repped.

Hawksmoor

[shaunclinton]

I liked my method better, you can see the write up here:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33061

Kryptonian disadvantage linked to all his powers.

Covers the following situations...

1) Kryptonite (renders virtually powerless)
2) Red Sun (makes him maybe 75% weaker, but see below)
3) Loss/Alteration of power in certain magical environments
4) Loss of power as he loses solar power

The 4th one there is the biggie.

You also need most (but not all) of his defence bought with Not vs. Magic, don't buy this for his Damage Reduction.

You then need a few additional disadvantages to map it out properly.

Susc. to Kryptonite does damage
Susc. to Kryptonite which drains END reserve
Susc. to Red Solar Radiation which drains END reserve
Susc. to BODY Damage, drains END reserve (1d6/BOD)

Physical Limitation: Susc. to Kryptonite Effects

Vulnerability: x2 Effect from Magic
Vulnerability: x1 1/2 STUN from Magic
Vulnerability: x2 Effect from Energy Drains

OHID isn't appropriate and doesn't cover the same range and variety of situations.

Using the system above is more complicated, just to explain point 4.

Say you give him an END Reserve with 800 END in it.
At END 800 he has STR 140, when the reserve drops to 600 he has STR 120, 500 = 100 STR, 400 = 80 STR, 300 = 70 STR, 200 = 60 STR, 100 = 50 STR, 0 = 25 STR. This represents his solar charge and the fact it can be exhausted.

This models fairly well the various power losses Superman seems to suffer;

1) Kryptonite negates his powers immediately, long term exposure leaves his powers reduced (END Reserve drain) and then excessive exposure will kill him.

2) Magic does him more damage, but he doesn't get immediately pasted by it. However transformative/draining magic effects seem to get him real easy.

3) He needs power def to survive certain Radiation/Energy/Poison/Disease effects, the Vuln to Energy Drains represents the sort of things that Parasite and the like use on him.

4) Red Solar energy immediately reduces his power somewhat (I'd suggest 75%) but then (by the mechanism of draining his END reserve) will 'eat into his solar energy stores' which is what it's supposed to do, eventually leaving him powerless.

5) Physical Limitation against Kryptonite represents things like Red Kryptonite and the ilk, but also represents the pain he feels when exposed to Kryptonite, it seems certain that he needs an EGO test at least to act when in it's presence.

6) It also simulates him using up END as he fights long battles, such as the one against Doomsday... especially against opponents that can hurt him as this seems to cut into his reserves. Eventually depowering him.

There are a few other things that should be going on in there, the most important that spring to mind are these:

a) His END Reserve REC should be limited by available daylight (Maybe 5 at night, 50 in equatorial sunshine and 60 in space with no atmosphere) but should also reduce with the reserve, perhaps even becoming per Minute, 5 Minutes, Hour, etc. at the bottom to represent how long it takes a fully depowered Kryptonian to gain power under a yellow sun.

b) END for all his powers should come half from his personal END and half from the reserve.