Electromagnetic Pulse

[Black Lotus]

All right, I need to write up an "Electromagnetic Pulse" device.

Electromagnetic pulses were first suspected to exist with the advent of the atomic bomb, and they're now scientific fact. Basically, they ruin (or severely damage) electronic/ electrical systems within their range of effect. No real physical damage is done, though, except collateral damage as a result of systems failure, and maybe wires catching fire or the like.

My quandary is this: should I write this up as doing DAMAGE to electrical/ electronic systems only? Do I write it up some other way?

For example, if I used an EMP device in the middle of a city, any computers/ coffeemakers/ etcetera would be runied, and the city's power grid would likely fail. Cars would have any of their electronic/ electrical systems destroyed. Robots, computers, electrical grids, lights, anything like that. No damage is done to any living creatures, though.

It's a tough write up, and I'm looking for suggestions. There may already be an example in FREd or Star HERO, but I don't think so.

Anyone?

[Dr. Anomaly]

You could do it as a massive AoE Dispel vs. electronics / electrical devices / electrically powered devices. After all, if you do enough effect with a Dispel to turn off the powers in a Focus, it's broken and must be repaired, not just switched back on. If you want to get really nasty about it (as well as jack the point cost into the stratosphere) add the "All Powers of a given effect at the same time (+2)" Advantage to the Dispel, and you'll make sure to get all the powers of a device, car, robot, whatever, and not just the largest.

Failing that, since all it takes to destroy powers in a Focus is to get even one pip of BODY damage through its DEF:

1 pip RKA, AoE: Radius (increase radius to taste), x3 Penetrating, No Range, Only vs. Electronics / Electrical Devices / Electrically Powered Devices, OAF Expendable EMP Bomb

[Black Lotus]

You could do it as a massive AoE Dispel vs. electronics / electrical devices / electrically powered devices. After all, if you do enough effect with a Dispel to turn off the powers in a Focus, it's broken and must be repaired, not just switched back on. If you want to get really nasty about it (as well as jack the point cost into the stratosphere) add the "All Powers of a given effect at the same time (+2)" Advantage to the Dispel, and you'll make sure to get all the powers of a device, car, robot, whatever, and not just the largest.

Failing that, since all it takes to destroy powers in a Focus is to get even one pip of BODY damage through its DEF:

1 pip RKA, AoE: Radius (increase radius to taste), x3 Penetrating, No Range, Only vs. Electronics / Electrical Devices / Electrically Powered Devices, OAF Expendable EMP Bomb

Thank you for the swift and salient reply, Doctor. Be warned, it will take some time for me to wrap my small brain around all the annals and implications of your suggested solutions, so I decided to thank you now and respond more articulately at a later time. (Plus, the GF has opened a hailing frequency and desires my presence in the kitchen).

In the meantime, further suggestions are welcomed!

[Dr. Anomaly]

Thank you for the swift and salient reply, Doctor. Be warned, it will take some time for me to wrap my small brain around all the annals and implications of your suggested solutions, so I decided to thank you now and respond more articulately at a later time. (Plus, the GF has opened a hailing frequency and desires my presence in the kitchen).
No problem, and my pleasure. I'm just heading off to cook dinner myself! Have a good one! :)

[ghost-angel]

Another, more esoteric, suggestion would be: Transform, AoE, Non-Shielded Electrical Devices into Non-Working Electrical devices, transformed back when repaired/reset (whichever applies). Make it All or Nothing and really large number of dice.

Though, personally, I've just handwaved this effect in my games.

[pinecone]

Military electronics are somewhat protected vs EMP...so you might go with a NND 1D6, Does body type effect and model sheilded electronics as Power Def....in a comix world such sheilding would be much more likely in a civilian setting, or more realisticly make it an AVLD so it can burn through sheilding....In a world of Techno-savey terrorists sheilding might become common.....

[ghost-angel]

Military electronics are somewhat protected vs EMP...so you might go with a NND 1D6, Does body type effect and model sheilded electronics as Power Def....in a comix world such sheilding would be much more likely in a civilian setting, or more realisticly make it an AVLD so it can burn through sheilding....In a world of Techno-savey terrorists sheilding might become common.....

Another method, assuming one goes with a uniform way of dealing out EMP, is to make Shielding Power Def, any shielded object should purchase it as "Shielded" SFX. This would work if your EMP were Dispels or Transforms.

[Black Lotus]

Military electronics are somewhat protected vs EMP...so you might go with a NND 1D6, Does body type effect and model sheilded electronics as Power Def....in a comix world such sheilding would be much more likely in a civilian setting, or more realisticly make it an AVLD so it can burn through sheilding....In a world of Techno-savey terrorists sheilding might become common.....

Yes, I was an avionics technician in the Air Force. Components and equipment protected from EMP are referred to as "Nuclear Hardened". I was considering a NND Power much like the one you mention. The only difficulty is in adding the appropriate Disadvantages (which will have to be made up and valued on the spot), such as "Affects Only Electronic/ Electrical Entities" and, as you mention, the ability that can protect against the NND, known perhaps as "Nuclear Hardened".

Hmmmmmm.

[Ghost Archer]

I think I'd specify the damage/Transform or whatever be limited a little further than 'electronic'. I know I am old and once worked with tubes, valves to the Brits, but I imagine there are still a few older type electronics around. The government is still like five or six years behind the civilian world in computers. All that taken into consideration, perhaps damage/transform to 'IC chips' would narrow it down and be more accurate.

[pinecone]

Yeah Iwas thinking something like 2D6 AVLD (power def) Lim: only vs emp vulnrable targets -1/2 to -1 (I'd go with -1/2 'cause being aware of the limit I'd be making sure it came up seldom) add in Does body and you're home, just needs AE or what ever else and you gots EMP...one nice thing is Dispell and supress are both reduced by Power def.....so even an alternate build is "stopped" by the same defensive power......you might need a bigger AVLD but if Hardened electronics have 1 or 2 points it's "good" as is, though the Dispell and supress likely need much bigger defenses to stop....so you need a bigger hammer with the AVLD...

[pinecone]

I had an additional thought on this...buy the AVLD as PEN, then you can Harden with power def vs dispell and supress and only harden a coupla points to stop the AVLD and you got one unified mechanic for EMP...

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

I've always seen it built as dispell

[JmOz]

THis comes up from time to time

Okay, I will say this on dispell: It in my opinion EXCEEDS the mandate of the power to allow it to damage a foci

I know what the book says

I still think that it is a tact on thing to let some people justify there favorite build

I in the past have used a AF Pen, Exploding attack for this, but the AVLD Does body seems a better way to me now that I have seen it

Also helps to jack the price to a point where I would be happier with it

so something akin to

1d6 RKA, NND(+.5), Exploding (+.5), Does Body (+1), AFx5 (+1.5), Persional Immunity (+1/4), 32 Charges (+1/4), Must be fired in 5 round bursts (75 Active Points)

[Onyxclaw]

my electric dragon gives off a biological EMP when frightened. In her normal environent this would disrupt her electrical signiture by with other larger predators would track her...in the Sci-Fi setting it screws with electronics...which she can also drain. It's concept is she pushes outward the electric forcefield that she generally has around herself, and the pule of the field expanding causes the EMP

We built it as follows:

Slot 4 Was that supposed to work?
EMP – Dispel 5d6 – All electronics (+2), Area Effect (+1 6” Range), X4 Cumulative (+1), No Range (-1/2), Full Phase (-1/2), Must Follow Force Field on Dispel (-1/4), x1.5 END (-1/4) [75 AP] [11 END]

you can take off or add whatever you want, since I doubt your machine will follow the same rules or limitations

[Sketchpad]

The question also arises then ... is AVLD/NND the way that everyone would go with a Star Wars based Ion Cannon?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

The question also arises then ... is AVLD/NND the way that everyone would go with a Star Wars based Ion Cannon?

well some books say they arn't blocked, some say they are, it's really weird

[Narratio]

I'd go with AVLD, area effect, as some of the others have noted. Not that hard to model really. Jut a blooming large area.

[Black Lotus]

I love these boards. Not happy with what's in FREd? Not sure what to do? Post your quandary here, and by God, you'll have dozens of choices to choose from. By the third page, everything will have deteriorated into flaming, but the first two are gold.

Thanks for all the suggestions, people. :)

[Dr Divago]

All right, I need to write up an "Electromagnetic Pulse" device.I'm not an "EMP expert", i've only "standard knowledge" (disrupt electronic devices, generated by nuclear explosion in high atmosphere, and like)
but i'd like to say my two cent

I think that are'nt only one method to build up EMP, depend what you're searching, what effect you like of EMP and what type of campaign

In cyberpunk campaign EMP are only intendend to disrupt/temporarily-block-function-of electronic devices, expecialy Cyberware. So i build this like a Dispel Cyberware

More generally, i'd like idea that EMP are Dispel Electronics Device; a EMP Mega Bomb probably are built with Explosion Mega Area or similar "big AoE", and EMP Shielding are built like Power Defense with limitation Only to protect against Dispel/EMP

In a world where robot or droid characthers may be present (like in Star Wars) some EMP (or Ion) may be constructed as Damage NND or AVLD only against droid, or similar.

If EMP does other type of damage apart from disrupting electronic devices, then link to an EB.

hope this helped you...

[prestidigitator]

well some books say they arn't blocked, some say they are, it's really weird

Seeing as I can't personally allow the books to contribute to my vision of the Star Wars universe, I think the only solid example of an ion cannon was in, "A New Hope," when R2-D2 was captured by the jawas. With one example to go off of, we could build it just about any way we like. :) ...but yes, I think NND/AVLD is generally the way to go; probably Stun only, since droids seem to say, "Ouch," and such things and thus likely don't have full Automaton Powers.

In general, I lean toward NND for EMPs, as complete defense IRL is as simple as a Faraday Cage (surrounding cage of metal) attached to a large capacitor or a good ground.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

right, but R2 was an unshielded target. The question i have is wiether ray shields are able to deflect/disapate an Ion Cannon, or else why would a ship ever have more turbolasers than ion cannons? you just need to use enough ion cannons to turn the ship off (if shields dont' block them) and then blow a small hole in them if you dont' want to capture the ship.

[prestidigitator]

Well, the feel of Star Wars seems to me to indicate that ions cannons wouldn't disable an entire ship. They might disable droids and computers on the ship (thus possibly making the jump to hyperspace suicide), but they aren't likely to shut it down so badly you can't pilot or fight.

Also a ship mechanic could probably repair ion cannon damage in short order, since such a wide variety of issues are instantly fixable in SW with a torch or the flip of a few switches (Episode I's pod race had me s**ting bricks, but what part of that movie didn't, so whatever).

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

i don't know about the movies (Because they leave lots of space combat open ended) but if a hand held weapon drops R2-D2, then a scaled up space combat ion canon should do the same thing (ie. a big enough volly would disable a whole ship), and fry circuts and cause overloads and chain lighting. At least it does in the books (like "Bacta War")

[Dr Divago]

At least it does in the books (like "Bacta War")Even in the computer videogames and in Star Wars RPG from WEG

[Black Lotus]

Even in the computer videogames and in Star Wars RPG from WEG

I wish all the WEG books for Star Wars were still easy to get. I hate the d20 version. Unfortunately, getting a complete set of core WEG SW books, let alone the full set, is more-or-less impossible.

*sigh* :D

[Dr Divago]

I wish all the WEG books for Star Wars were still easy to get. I hate the d20 version. Unfortunately, getting a complete set of core WEG SW books, let alone the full set, is more-or-less impossible.

*sigh* :DI know, i know...
i've a 2nd edition Revised and Correct HC rulebook with a lot of sourcebook and expansion manuals, but some are missing too...

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

i just have the core book, and i think i remember ion cannnons as ignoring shields

[prestidigitator]

Whatever. To me it breaks the Star Wars feel, whatever authors and game designers decide to publish. Just my opinion.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I love these boards. Not happy with what's in FREd? Not sure what to do? Post your quandary here, and by God, you'll have dozens of choices to choose from. By the third page, everything will have deteriorated into flaming, but the first two are gold.

Thanks for all the suggestions, people. :)

Actually, most of the threads never devolve into flaming. Most of them stay quite civil and interesting discussion can go on for several pages.

For my own campaigns, I go with Dispel. The reason is because the outer shell of electronic components aren't damaged at all, just the internal circuitry, thus such components merely need be replaced and the object is fixed. With an attack that does Body, enough Body will destroy the object to the point it can't be fixed.

Of course the GM can hand-wave things and say otherwise, but I like the way Dispel vs Foci works. It mimics EMP perfectly. (and thus, Power Defense exists as the perfect way to simulate Nuclear Hardening!)

[JmOz]

I have alot of respect for NSG, but I disagree.

I feel that it is an add-on that does not fit with the rest of the power

As for the no damage: consider that if you have fried every circuit in something then the thing is pretty much destroyed and needs to be replaced, even if you can salvage the shell it was in...

[NuSoardGraphite]

I have alot of respect for NSG, but I disagree.

I feel that it is an add-on that does not fit with the rest of the power

As for the no damage: consider that if you have fried every circuit in something then the thing is pretty much destroyed and needs to be replaced, even if you can salvage the shell it was in...

Well, how about a car?

An EMP pulse would pretty much take out any modern car in existance, but wouldn't destroy the vehicle. 21st century cars would be in trouble with all the "chips" needed to run those, but late 20th century vehicles would only need 1 or 2 parts replaced before they would work again...

Its situations like those I'm talking about that makes attacks that do Body damage to simulate EMP make little sense.

[JmOz]

You bring up a very good point, that i will admit I do not have a good answer for, I still feel that dispell is ill-fit.

[Onyxclaw]

You bring up a very good point, that i will admit I do not have a good answer for, I still feel that dispell is ill-fit.

I wont say I like dispel for this, but that is also what I use to simulate EMPs.

Damage isn't really the answer, I'll agree with NSG on that one. Usually I jaust have it on Dispel electronics with the SFX that the pices that are damaged need to be replaced instead of vanashing. For all intents and purposes though, it's as if those pieces effectivley do vanish, because the object doesn't work. Same as if they did.

Energy Blast feels like the right power in name only, as EMPs are like a surge of energy. But mechanically are lacking. And Transform is just...well cheese for this IMO. You could use a cumulative partial transform "Working piece of electronics to fried piece of electronics" and call that an EMP. But that feels somewhat wrong aswell. Not to mention awful expensive when bought as AoE.

I wish there was something cleaner and more fitting. But until someone finds something better I'll use dispel =P

Edit: I also find that this power goes great with an Absorb End ability. Like the ability to recharge of electronics. In a lot of ways this power is more useful. My electric Dragon did a lot better taking down the KillaCan with her absorb, than her EMP. And she could slash at it, get tired, drain it, and go back to slashing.

[Black Lotus]

Note, however, that the damage doesn't have to be the chunks-falling-off, fuel-tank-on-fire sort of damage. The SFX of the damage could simply be that the target stops working or becomes irreparable. After all, in game terms, all damage does is cause something to stop working -- sometimes permanently.

So for example, a car could be sitting on the curb, get hit with damage from a "EMP" SFX, and look exactly the same physically as it did before the attack -- only it is completely destroyed. You can't start it up, parts of the engine are shot, the clock stops working... in short, even though it is fully intact, it is indeed destroyed -- as useless as though it had been blown into pieces (aside from the fact that it could still be used for cover, but even a car that has been destroyed by a flamethrower or little bullets through the engine block can still be used for that).

Of course, in the case of aircraft, hitting the ground often causes quite a bit of destruction.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

now does someone want to write a brand new power called EMP?