Doc Savage Write-up?

[starblaze]

Well I have been checking out some write-ups of both the Shadow and The Spider as well as some of their allies and villians. But I haven't been able to find anything on Doctor Clark Savage. I realize it may be difficult since he is mister can do everything but cook, but I cannot imagine that the possessors of such mighty Hero-Fu could come up with something by now.

So any takers? Do you have the moxie?

[AlHazred]

I think I started a Doc Savage writeup at one point, when I realized my local library had a complete run of the reprints. Unfortunately, I've moved since then. As I recall, it started to get a little hairy after 1000 points - most of it stuff. If I had to do it again, I'd definitely give him a hefty Equipment allowance, as per Dark Champions. It's appropriate, really - he uses a lot of stuff once and then never again.

[keithcurtis]

Darren Watts did a write-up for his Pulp All-Stars con game two years ago. IIRC, it came to just under 900 points.

Keith "Man of Bronze" Curtis

[McCoy]

Darren Watts did a write-up for his Pulp All-Stars con game two years ago. IIRC, it came to just under 900 points.

Keith "Man of Bronze" Curtis
Under 900? I'm impressed!

I would have thought followers, bases, and vehicles alone would have topped a thousand.

25 in all primary stats, every Talent in the book, and don't get me started on that gadget pool!

[Fazhoul]

I've done a couple of different write-ups of Doc in the past. On at least one of them I used some house rules that Albert Deschene had posted on his website. In addition to Universal Translator his group had Universal Scientist, Universal Scholar, etc. For 20 pts. the universal skills would give the character an 11- roll in any science skill, knowledge skill, etc. A +1 to the roll could be purchased for an extra 5 pts. I just bought Doc every "universal" skill and saved myself some time and trouble.

I'll see if I have any of the write-ups and try to post the best one.

[Hawksmoor]

I've done a couple of different write-ups of Doc in the past. On at least one of them I used some house rules that Albert Deschene had posted on his website. In addition to Universal Translator his group had Universal Scientist, Universal Scholar, etc. For 20 pts. the universal skills would give the character an 11- roll in any science skill, knowledge skill, etc. A +1 to the roll could be purchased for an extra 5 pts. I just bought Doc every "universal" skill and saved myself some time and trouble.

I'll see if I have any of the write-ups and try to post the best one.

The GGU uses Universals to. One thing to be aware though, you lose the complementary skill bonus. I'd give Doc lots of skills in the broad sense (Physics Chemistry Ancient World, Current Events) and let the Universal XXXXX take over the complementary roll or the obscure (I'll only need this skill 1-2 in the whole campaign.

Hawksmoor

[Mentor]

So, are we talking about Lester Dent's Doc Savage or Phil Farmer's Doc Savage?

Our campaign is shamelessly drawing from PJF.

[starblaze]

So, are we talking about Lester Dent's Doc Savage or Phil Farmer's Doc Savage?

Our campaign is shamelessly drawing from PJF.

Probably Kenneth Robeson's version (that was Lester Dent's penname btw). I am not really familiar with Farmer's version. But I am cool with anyone's preference.

[OddHat]

So, are we talking about Lester Dent's Doc Savage or Phil Farmer's Doc Savage?

Our campaign is shamelessly drawing from PJF.

Are you doing the whole Wold-Newton thing, or just the Doc Savage books?

PJF's Doc Caliban, the Jungle Lord, and the Nine stories figure into most of my campaigns. :)

[starblaze]

Are you doing the whole Wold-Newton thing, or just the Doc Savage books?

PJF's Doc Caliban, the Jungle Lord, and the Nine stories figure into most of my campaigns. :)

The only Doc Savage I know is from the novels.

[OddHat]

The only Doc Savage I know is from the novels.

Lester Dent's novels are classics. :)

I'm also a fan of Philip Jose Farmer's Doc Savage novels, and his Doc Savage tribute characters, Doc Caliban and Greatheart Silver.

The Wold-Newton universe idea ran through much of Farmer's work, placing heroes from Sherlock Holmes all the way up to the 1940s Batman in the same world, and tying in much else as well. It's a great story setting, an extension of a similar conceit that ran through some Victorian Fantastique and Pulp novels.

You can find multiple Wold-Newton web sites with a quick google. One good place to start (if you're interested):
http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Pulp.htm

[Mentor]

Are you doing the whole Wold-Newton thing, or just the Doc Savage books?

PJF's Doc Caliban, the Jungle Lord, and the Nine stories figure into most of my campaigns. :)Our campaign is set in 1905 and thus chocked full the PJF characters.
We seem to be heading for adoption of the whole "family" as real. I had forgotten that Harry Flashman, for example, was one of the relatives of Tarzan, Doc Savage, Fu Manchu, etc. With multiple GMs, this particular site is becoming a primary resource.

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Pulp2.htm


Edit: Duh, scooped by Oddhat.(Good job, that.) Read the whole thread first, Mentor. :idjit: :D

[Wilfred_Death]

Our campaign is set in 1905 and thus chocked full the PJF characters......

Erm, I hope you don't have your PCs adopt the culinary peculiarities of Doc Caliban and Lord Grandrith, or for that matter some of their more obscure methods for killing flies.
ROFL

[Lord Liaden]

If anyone hasn't seen it yet, take a look at the last of the "Similar Threads" at the bottom of this page. Some very good suggestions and discussion there.

(For once the board software actually came up with a Similar Thread that's similar.) ;)

[OddHat]

Erm, I hope you don't have your PCs adopt the culinary peculiarities of Doc Caliban and Lord Grandrith, or for that matter some of their more obscure methods for killing flies.
ROFL

A ramble:

Caliban and Grandith are the most fan-wanked (*ahem*) characters in the Wold-Newton chronologies. In the three books where he used them (or five if you count each novella as a separate book), Farmer intended them as the "real" people on whom the fictional characters of Doc Savage and Tarzan were based. Good stories all, and they introduced us to The Nine, one of the best bits in the Wold-Newton mythos.

Then, in some of his Tarzan novels, Farmer used the Nine again.

If the Nine were the same in both series, fans had to explain how Savage, Tarzan, Caliban, and Grandith had all co-existed in the same places and times without being aware of one-another. The answer they came up with involved, well, lots of brainwashing. It emasculated all four characters. Er...so to speak.

Myself, I just say that Granith and Caliban were always the "real" characters in my take on the Wold-Newtonverse and leave it at that. If Farmer can ignore his own continuity for the sake of a story, so can I. ;)

[Mentor]

Erm, I hope you don't have your PCs adopt the culinary peculiarities of Doc Caliban and Lord Grandrith, or for that matter some of their more obscure methods for killing flies.
ROFL
Thankfully, no. Those, um, peculiarities were from the Mad Goblin, IIRC so I will attribute them to exageration for the purposes of our campaign.

[OddHat]

Thankfully, no. Those, um, peculiarities were from the Mad Goblin, IIRC so I will attribute them to exageration for the purposes of our campaign.

A Feast Unknown, unless there was more stuff in the Mad Goblin I can't remember.

And I don't use that ritual either. ;)

[Dale A. Ward]

Erm, I hope you don't have your PCs adopt the culinary peculiarities of Doc Caliban and Lord Grandrith, or for that matter some of their more obscure methods for killing flies.
ROFL

Since my only acquaintance with Farmer's Wold/Newton works comes from my reading "Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life", I would sincerely appreciate it if someone could PM me with the punchline to this in-joke.

And, maybe some "Suggested Reading" lists, as well...

[OddHat]

Since my only acquaintance with Farmer's Wold/Newton works comes from my reading "Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life", I would sincerely appreciate it if someone could PM me with the punchline to this in-joke.

And, maybe some "Suggested Reading" lists, as well...

Starting with "A Feast Unknown", Farmer did a series of pulp style adventure novels revolving around the "real" Doc Savage and Tarzan. They were very good books. They were also filled with explicit sex and, well, a little cannibalism.

Farmer did not worry much about continuity between the Caliban / Grandrith books and the rest of his Wold-Newton books, but fans do. Because, well, we're strange.

[Mentor]

I seem to recall it in a double volume entitled The Mad Goblin/Lord of the Trees. Is that not the same source?

[Mentor]

Since my only acquaintance with Farmer's Wold/Newton works comes from my reading "Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life", I would sincerely appreciate it if someone could PM me with the punchline to this in-joke.

And, maybe some "Suggested Reading" lists, as well...If you follow the link that Oddhat (and I redundantly;) ) posted earlier, the list of resources is huge.:)

[OddHat]

I seem to recall it in a double volume entitled The Mad Goblin/Lord of the Trees. Is that not the same source?

That's the second (or second and third, depending on how you look at it) volume of their adventures, after they decide to defy the Nine. I don't remember any strange dietary stuff in there, but I am often wrong.

[Mentor]

That's the second (or second and third, depending on how you look at it) volume of their adventures, after they decide to defy the Nine. I don't remember any strange dietary stuff in there, but I am often wrong.
D*mn, now I need to find the "A Feast Unknown", which no doubt has been out of print for decades. Thanks a lot, Oddhat.:D

[st barbara]

Writing up "Doc Savage". Hmm no problem if you aren't concerned with point costs. Just put ALL characteristics at human maximum, give him every skill in the book, throw in scads of wealth, the most useful bunch of followers imagineable and all the contacts that you can dream up ! Simple really.

[Corwyn]

On a related note, any write-ups on his men?

I'll be playing in a one shot and a few of us thought since there are 5 of us it was a natural.

if there aren't any, how about some suggestions on languages known and obscure skills and disads. It's been a while since I've read any Doc.

[OddHat]

On a related note, any write-ups on his men?

I'll be playing in a one shot and a few of us thought since there are 5 of us it was a natural.

if there aren't any, how about some suggestions on languages known and obscure skills and disads. It's been a while since I've read any Doc.

The basic pattern is easy, but specific and accurate write ups would require you to do some research.

The best Doc Savage Sites are here (http://members.aol.com/the86floor/) and here (http://thepulp.net/docsavage.html).

Doc's five companions are each allowed to be just slightly better than Doc in one specific area. Doc is almost as good as each of them in their specialized areas, and has skills in areas they don't.

Renny was a giant, not stronger than Doc but a more dangerous boxer, with huge fists that could smash doors and walls. Doc could out-wrestle him. Renny was also a master engineer.

Johnny was tall and slim. He was possibly the world's leading geologist and archaeologist, and much tougher than he looked.

Long Tom was useless in a fist fight, a good shot, and the gadgeteer of the group after doc. He was a "wizard with electricity", the best electrical engineer of his time.

Ham was "the best lawyer Harvard ever turned out", slim and a deadly swordsman.

Monk was short, very heavy, and had freakishly long arms. He was stronger than any members of the group save possibly Doc or Renny, and the best wrestler in the crowd (Doc could out-box him). He was also the world's greatest chemist.

All of them are easy enough to do on 150 points, though 250 would be closer to the ful over the top cinematic versions of the characters. Doc is at least a 500 point character, and 800 would not be out of line. However, you can do a good Doc tribute for a little as 350 if you're willing to chop away at his Talents and Perks list with an axe.

[AlHazred]

Doc's five companions are each allowed to be just slightly better than Doc in one specific area. Doc is almost as good as each of them in their specialized areas, and has skills in areas they don't.That's not completely true, IIRC. Doc is just slightly better than each of them in their special areas of expertise, and has areas of knowledge that they lack.

[OddHat]

That's not completely true, IIRC. Doc is just slightly better than each of them in their special areas of expertise, and has areas of knowledge that they lack.

I always thought it was a case of almost as good plus areas the others lacked, but then I may be over-influenced by the Philip Jose Farmer and Will Murray revivals. Haven't read more than 4-5 of the originals.

[Lamrok]

Writing up "Doc Savage". Hmm no problem if you aren't concerned with point costs. Just put ALL characteristics at human maximum, give him every skill in the book, throw in scads of wealth, the most useful bunch of followers imagineable and all the contacts that you can dream up ! Simple really.

The Fab Five were actually the most useless bunch of followers anyone ever had. The only one of them who could do anything remotely useful to Doc was Ham, the lawyer. The expertise of the rest of them was less useful to him than my four year old's grasp of computer technology is to me. For all intents and purposes, with the sole exception of the Ham, they were incompetent DNPCs, constantly getting captured, and constantly needing Doc to bail them out of whatever mess they had managed to muddle into. Part of the reason he was so competent was that he had all those extra points from DNPCs.

I find the whole PJF take on Doc Savage to be extremely icky. Doc Savage and the Fab Five always struck me as projections of what eight year olds think they will be when they grow up - overgrown kids. Ascribing sexual behavior to them feels vaguely pedophilic to me.

[Lamrok]

That's not completely true, IIRC. Doc is just slightly better than each of them in their special areas of expertise, and has areas of knowledge that they lack.

Dent would say that when introducing them, but the stories, as far as I can remember, never bore that out. When push came to shove they were never close in ability to Doc.

[OddHat]

I find the whole PJF take on Doc Savage to be extremely icky. Doc Savage and the Fab Five always struck me as projections of what eight year olds think they will be when they grow up - overgrown kids. Ascribing sexual behavior to them feels vaguely pedophilic to me.

PJF only went over the top in his Caliban/Grandith stories imo. The actual Doc Savage stories (Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life and Escape from Loki) featured a Doc Savage that had a sex life, but it wasn't on screen.

[Lamrok]

PJF only went over the top in his Caliban/Grandith stories imo. The actual Doc Savage stories (Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life and Escape from Loki) featured a Doc Savage that had a sex life, but it wasn't on screen.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was going by stories I'd heard, rather than personal experience, always a dangerous basis for an opinion.

[OddHat]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was going by stories I'd heard, rather than personal experience, always a dangerous basis for an opinion.

No worries.

The first Doc Caliban story (A Feast Unknown) was as much a parody as an adventure story. Sex was used for shock value, and as a criticism of pre-sexual revolution mores. I wish there had been much less of it, because there is a good Tarzan/Doc Savage adventure story in there. The Mad Goblin and Lord of the Trees also use Caliban / Grandith, but they're much more traditional Doc Savage and Tarzan stories.

Farmer's actual Doc Savage books ("Escape from Loki" and "Doc Savage:HAL") were written later. Escape from Loki in particular is interesting, telling the story of Doc's first meeting with his assistants. There's no on-screen ex in either book, but there is mention of Doc having had at least one relationship.