New Avengers?

[hooligan x]

Anyone know of a site with an episode guide of Marvel's New Avengers? I think I'm missing out on jokes on the board but I don't want to buy any back issues.

I'm cheap like that.

[transmetahuman]

Anyone know of a site with an episode guide of Marvel's New Avengers? I think I'm missing out on jokes on the board but I don't want to buy any back issues.

I'm cheap like that.
There's some pretty informative reviews/synopses at http://www.medinnus.com/winghead/review/index.html

It sounds friggin awful.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

I love the series. First comic book I've collected in around 8 years.

[Hermit]

It's very hit and miss. Mistakes have been made (Jigsaw breaking Spider-Man's arm, later rationalized as 'leverage' :rolleyes: ) in one issue, and Tony Stark and Cap apparently taking Wolverine on to do their dirty work for them?(To which I say WTF?) but the dialogue has been good, there are some funny lines, and I am glad to see Jessica Drew as Spider-Woman again.


Currently, Amazing Spider-Man's story line has me wishing JMS instead of Bendis was writing the New Avengers though.

[Vanguard00]

and Tony Stark and Cap apparently taking Wolverine on to do their dirty work for them?(To which I say WTF?)

I like the series, too, but I didn't take that scene the same way. I viewed it more along the lines that this is a different world and Cap's way might not be the best way anymore. Not that I'd pick Wolvie to represent the new mentality, myself, but I think it's their way of saying they might need to get their hands dirty sometimes - Cap won't, Wolvie will. Might be a perception thing on my part, but there ya go.

Either that or they're saying that Wolvie is more of an iconic character than Cap now, and that he sells more books. But that could just be me.

I, too, am happy to see a very cool Jessica Drew back in action, by the way.

Currently, Amazing Spider-Man's story line has me wishing JMS instead of Bendis was writing the New Avengers though.
As much as I actually like Bendis (I know, boo hiss), I agree. JMS is doin' a fantastic job.

[Tamashii2000]

I like the series, too, but I didn't take that scene the same way. I viewed it more along the lines that this is a different world and Cap's way might not be the best way anymore. Not that I'd pick Wolvie to represent the new mentality, myself, but I think it's their way of saying they might need to get their hands dirty sometimes - Cap won't, Wolvie will. Might be a perception thing on my part, but there ya go.

Either that or they're saying that Wolvie is more of an iconic character than Cap now, and that he sells more books. But that could just be me.

I, too, am happy to see a very cool Jessica Drew back in action, by the way.

As much as I actually like Bendis (I know, boo hiss), I agree. JMS is doin' a fantastic job.

Wolvie is in.. 3 different xmen teams.. and the new avengers all at the same time. I think its just 'wovie is hot we want him on our team to sell comics.....'

I like wolvie don't get me wrong..but I realy DON'T like the personality they are giving him in New Avengers... He's.. well ... a prick.. bigger one then normal. One comic he blasts Cap America for being 'full of it' and suggests he uses his outfit to free load, next he's telling spiderman he doesn't like him??

Love to see Spiderwoman and Luke Cage back in action - its about time someone decided to pick up Spiderman as a team member he's only been swinging around that city for how long?

Hmm.. guess I should own up to being a bit of a spiderman mark... Heh:celebrate

[ChaosDrgn]

The current issue of Wizard has a break down of everything that's going on with comments by the writers/artists.

[Enforcer84]

Didn't Logan hit on Mary Jane too?
Stupid Marvel.

[hooligan x]

Didn't Logan hit on Mary Jane too?
Stupid Marvel.

So he has a thing for other dude's redheads. Who doesn't?:D

[Enforcer84]

So he has a thing for other dude's redheads. Who doesn't?:D
Pete should just rip his head off.

[Hermit]

Pete should just rip his head off.

The latest issue of ASM actually has a pretty satisfying response from Pete when Logan hassles him about his wife in a scandal rag. :eg:

[Enforcer84]

The latest issue of ASM actually has a pretty satisfying response from Pete when Logan hassles him about his wife in a scandal rag. :eg:
Good.

[Reneshat]

The latest issue of ASM actually has a pretty satisfying response from Pete when Logan hassles him about his wife in a scandal rag. :eg:

I missed that one. I can only follow so many comics at one time (budget restrictions), and I miss all of the good Logan bashing. And to think, those are often my favorite moments....

[Hermit]

I missed that one. I can only follow so many comics at one time (budget restrictions), and I miss all of the good Logan bashing. And to think, those are often my favorite moments....
It's sad, but I agree. If someone made a comic that was nothing but "Spidey pwns Wolverine greatest hits" I would be tempted to buy it :D

BTW, for those who want to be spoiled on the incident I'm talking about, someone scanned a page at superhero hype

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6315723&postcount=20

[Enforcer84]

It's sad, but I agree. If someone made a comic that was nothing but "Spidey pwns Wolverine greatest hits" I would be tempted to buy it :D

BTW, for those who want to be spoiled on the incident I'm talking about, someone scanned a page at superhero hype

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6315723&postcount=20
A-heh.

[Tamashii2000]

Pete should just rip his head off.

I think he wants too. I know in at least one comic he stated he didn't like living at the Avengers tower, in a human torch/spiderman cross over he refers to the avenger as people he works with and the Fantastic four as his friends.

[ChaosDrgn]

Actually I loved it when Spider-woman stabbed Logan in the neck with his own claws :jawdrop:

[proditor]

I miss the "old" Wolverine. Say what you want about Claremont, his conflicted samurai Logan was a decent character before he became a l33t R0XX0r n1nj@!!!1!

Of course, it took TWENTY YEARS for Marvel to remember that Nightcrawlker was devoutly Catholic and not a man-whore, so I'm not sure what I'm really expecting here...

[Hermit]

I miss the "old" Wolverine. Say what you want about Claremont, his conflicted samurai Logan was a decent character before he became a l33t R0XX0r n1nj@!!!1!

Agreed. I kind of LIKE Samuraii Logan, loved the mini series with Claremont and Miller that showed him as such. Beserker wolverine was okay in his day, but lately it seems he's coming second to batman in needing to read "How to win friends and influence people"



Of course, it took TWENTY YEARS for Marvel to remember that Nightcrawlker was devoutly Catholic and not a man-whore, so I'm not sure what I'm really expecting here...

Makes me glad I haven't read X-Men books since the late 80s.

Though I do hear good things about Astonishing.

[proditor]

Agreed. I kind of LIKE Samuraii Logan, loved the mini series with Claremont and Miller that showed him as such. Beserker wolverine was okay in his day, but lately it seems he's coming second to batman in needing to read "How to win friends and influence people"



Makes me glad I haven't read X-Men books since the late 80s.

Though I do hear good things about Astonishing.Yeah, I dropped X-Men ages ago and have not looked back yet. I still remember him breaking into the Yashida compound and calling for Mariko with the Honor Blade clenched tightly in his hand as he demanded an answer to the end of their bethrothal.

Of course, Silver Samurai was also in that arc, and I loves me some Silver Samurai. :D

[Enforcer84]

I liked the Samurai Wolverine too, as much as I have ever liked the character. But since they decided that he's designated Bad *** #1, I haven't exactly overflowed with love for him.

[proditor]

I liked the Samurai Wolverine too, as much as I have ever liked the character. But since they decided that he's designated Bad *** #1, I haven't exactly overflowed with love for him.
Agreed. They also gave him the "Worf complex" from Star Trek.

Rob Leifield: "We need to show everyone how absolutely Bad @$$ this new guy I made up, The Castrator is! I need them to be thinking about how cool he is as opposed to my lousy* art."

Editor at marvel: "Hmmm....we could have him beat up Wolverine?"

Rob Leifield: "YEAH! That would do it!"

Flunky at Marvel who actually reads the comics: "But everyone beats up Wolverine. You guys have every new tough guy do it on like a monthly basis. Then Wolverine runs into them again later and schools them."

Leifield/Editor in unison: "Shut up!"

Editor: "So yeah, we'll run with that! The fans will be floored!"

Rob: "It's so great to work with another visionary genius like you!"

*edited from a much more...evocative...description of Leifield's art.

[Enforcer84]

Agreed. They also gave him the "Worf complex" from Star Trek.

Rob Leifield: "We need to show everyone how absolutely Bad @$$ this new guy I made up, The Castrator is! I need them to be thinking about how cool he is as opposed to my lousy* art."

Editor at marvel: "Hmmm....we could have him beat up Wolverine?"

Rob Leifield: "YEAH! That would do it!"

Flunky at Marvel who actually reads the comics: "But everyone beats up Wolverine. You guys have every new tough guy do it on like a monthly basis. Then Wolverine runs into them again later and schools them."

Leifield/Editor in unison: "Shut up!"

Editor: "So yeah, we'll run with that! The fans will be floored!"

Rob: "It's so great to work with another visionary genius like you!"

*edited from a much more...evocative...description of Leifield's art.
Yeah, that's another thing he took Colossus's role from him!
I swear, half the X-Men comics I read in the 80's involved poor ol Pete getting his osmium tuckus handed to him.

[proditor]

Yeah, that's another thing he took Colossus's role from him!
I swear, half the X-Men comics I read in the 80's involved poor ol Pete getting his osmium tuckus handed to him.
I can't remember who was drawing him, but for the longest time, Pete had the best "look" of any hero in Marvel. It was evocative of the Captain Marvel/Superman straight back and head held high in pride kind of thing. He just always looked heroic. Then they did the whole Szanji thing and I was confused why it was wrong for him to dump jailbait kitty pride for an alien chick. I mean, the Professor was dating Lilandra, right? He was just learning from his teacher. :D

[Zephrosyne]

I guess I am the dissenting opinion. I have always hated Wolverine (my best friend's favorite character though). I too enjoyed when Spiderwoman shoved his claws into his throat (almost as much as I enjoyed Magento pulling the adamantium off of his bones). I wish I had a poster of it to give to my best friend--a really big poster!!!

[Doctor Agenda]

It's sad, but I agree. If someone made a comic that was nothing but "Spidey pwns Wolverine greatest hits" I would be tempted to buy it :D

BTW, for those who want to be spoiled on the incident I'm talking about, someone scanned a page at superhero hype

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6315723&postcount=20

Now THAT's funny!

[steriaca]

Now THAT's funny!

Something Wolvie should of learned about in his long years of living...you never, NEVER insult someone's sinifigent other in frount of the person who is the other's sinifigent. (Or, in beter words, you never insult someone's wife/husban in frount of there husban/wife)

Serves him right.

[Troll]

Though I do hear good things about Astonishing.

I like Astonishing Xmen, but then again I am a Whedon fanboy. I don't care for Bendis, so I can't give a non biased opinion on New Avengers.

[Rikathos]

I agree that Astonishing X-Men is top notch it brought me back to the book and actually made me like the characters again.

I really wish that Marvel would just STOP with the over exposure of Wolverine.
Tired and annoying marketing device. Sales flag in a book, quick add Wolverine!

Now, as for the New Avengers....(Blinks at the screen)....
Everyone hated me on this thing previously for daring to not like Battle Star Galactica...You can all hate me for Not likeing the new Avengers one bit.

Line up and form a Que if you like.

I like "Powers" by Bendis I collect it and enjoy it thoroughly.
If I could stomach the art on Daredevil I think I would collect that too.
As for the "New" Avengers.
My gripe about "I know! Let's cancel a comic and restart it at #1" aside.
Along with the Death and now apparent resurection of Hawkeye....

My biggest gripe about the team is Spiderman.

He shouldn't be there, in my opinion.

He can hang with the big boys there is no doubt. But the Feel of the character his roots are the streets. Helping the Little guy out instead of tussling with Count Nefarious or Ultron. He's the wild card that shows up and saves the day.
Not the Comedy relief he was portrayed in the first 6 issues of the series.
Yeah, he cracks wise to set his Enemies on edge but the guy has earned at least some respect. So why is he made the Clown?

I have no problem with Spiderwoman, Captain America, Iron Man, or Luke Cage.

Uh...Sentry? Introduced in a Mini-Series and correct me if I am wrong ( like I know you want to) Did the Mini Series really do any decent sales?
You know what? You want to suddenly shunt in a character and make him Marvel's answer to Superman fine. But lets not pretend Bendis isnt' force feeding that concept to us. Sentry? Who freakin' cares.

Wolverine: As it was previously mentioned in another reply. How many FREAKIN teams can they toss this overused twit on?
Although as an aside....I want to see Wolverine guest star in Archie...
I mean they had the Punisher do it. Why not? Heh.

Now twit? Okay, maybe not so much. As with any character if they are written well then its forgivable, but he isn't really written well here.
I too miss Samurai Wolverine. Wolverine that wasn't made to be the *** of the team.

Please...Wolverine is the "IT" factor for the New Avengers?
He's this Generations answer to Captain America?
Bendis actually thinks we will buy this?
What part of Wolverine is desirable or even admirable except for the fact that his Healing factor can keep him from picking up any STD's.

Ugh...

I did like the art though.

And I feel bad for J.M.S. on Amazing Spiderman doing his best to make Lemonade out of Lemons. I just can't read that book anymore.

Thankfully he still is writing Supreme Powers, and now the Fantastic Four.

I think I'm done. Quick I voiced an opinion.

Bring the Sarcastic hate laced replies.

[csyphrett]

I think most agree with you, Rik. Bendis could have put together a better team out of all the characters Marvel owns. Someone pointed out that he only likes to use certain characters for whatever reason.
CES

[Southern Cross]

Which shows everybody how much better a writer Peter David is.He initially hated the character of the Hulk when he first took over the book,yet his run is now considered the definitive version of the series.

[Enforcer84]

Which shows everybody how much better a writer Peter David is.He initially hated the character of the Hulk when he first took over the book,yet his run is now considered the definitive version of the series.
So why would he take the reigns of a character he hated?

[Log-Man]

So why would he take the reigns of a character he hated? Wouldn't you love to get control of some characters you hate?


I know I would... :eg:

[Hermit]

So why would he take the reigns of a character he hated?

Perhaps for the challenge
Perhaps for the money
Perhaps to improve said character
Perhaps so he could make said character suffer...

We may never know :)

[ParitySoul]

Personally I like New Avengers run. There' s a lot of thinking going on inside the book. Old plots that Marvel never use to touch on are finally getting looked at.

Capt. America dealing with the mutant issue.

Spiderman getting more props from the heavyhitters. Capt/Wolve already know he's good in a pinch but honestly if you were going to have an Avengers with Luke Cage, Spiderwoman, etc...you'd need Spidy to balance them out.

I just hope they get off of some of the overdone tropes they've been playing on. Super loosing he secret idenity, EVIL government conspiracy (with suprise twist...Spiderwomans involvement in this is a bit tiresome.)

Etc.

Btw, if you measure in Tbots, New Avengers, Young Avengers, New Xmen...it's a good time to be a Marvel reader.

[Tamashii2000]

Noticed something in the Amazing spiderman book.. there's a moment where webhead gets dizzy..then he starts acting immature (even more then normal)

Maybe Wolvie acting like a idiot towards cap and spiderman aren't just bad writing but a plot line....

[Reneshat]

Wouldn't you love to get control of some characters you hate?


I know I would... :eg:

I would love to get my hands on (I'm going to get creamed for this)....




























Superman. I hate Superman.

[Eyendasky80]

next he's telling spiderman he doesn't like him??

Spidey and Wolerine have never got along.

Agreed. I kind of LIKE Samuraii Logan, loved the mini series with Claremont and Miller that showed him as such. Beserker wolverine was okay in his day, but lately it seems he's coming second to batman in needing to read "How to win friends and influence people"
My theory is Jean's death is making him pissy, it's really gotten bad since she died. We'll have to wait and see what happens when she comes back.

[Enforcer84]

Perhaps for the challenge
Perhaps for the money
Perhaps to improve said character
Perhaps so he could make said character suffer...

We may never know :)
That's kind of my point, the last reason is probably one of the few reasons I'd work on a Punisher book, actually the LAST Punisher book, because I would kill him.

But if it were a charater that I thought could be something, I don't know. Saying I hated it before I took it over, that's ego building.

[TrevorG]

I think most agree with you, Rik. Bendis could have put together a better team out of all the characters Marvel owns. Someone pointed out that he only likes to use certain characters for whatever reason.
CES

You're absolutely right, Spider Woman and Luke Cage being used in the Alias series was perfect, but now Bendis has the "New" Avengers and he is stuffing the team full of his favourites. I am not a huge Wolvie fan or Spiderman for that matter but loved the way Bendis was writing Cage and Spidrwoman. I just wish they were back in Alias (and not the lame "Pulse" that the series turned into), and really do you need two spider people on one team?

[Southern Cross]

Not really.Obviously Bendis is taking a leaf from the Legion Of Super-Heroes (who are notorious for having characters with similar powers,bylaws be damned).

[Eyendasky80]

You're absolutely right, Spider Woman and Luke Cage being used in the Alias series was perfect, but now Bendis has the "New" Avengers and he is stuffing the team full of his favourites. I am not a huge Wolvie fan or Spiderman for that matter but loved the way Bendis was writing Cage and Spidrwoman. I just wish they were back in Alias (and not the lame "Pulse" that the series turned into), and really do you need two spider people on one team?
This is SOP for Avengers. I can't recall a writer who took over the series and didn't immediately bring in his favorite Avengers. Bendis just widen his search to include non-avengers. Which is not entirely unheard of either.

[Hermit]

This is SOP for Avengers. I can't recall a writer who took over the series and didn't immediately bring in his favorite Avengers. Bendis just widen his search to include non-avengers. Which is not entirely unheard of either.

Can you imagine the outrage that would have occured if the team had been reduced to 3 former criminals and Cap?

;)

[csyphrett]

Can you imagine the outrage that would have occured if the team had been reduced to 3 former criminals and Cap?

;)

Roy Thomas is a lot better writer than Bendis.
CES

[Sociotard]

Here's the thing I don't like about the New Avengers: it's sloppy team building.

Look at their roster. Do they have a mentalist? No. Do they have a mystic? A speedster? Shapshifter? No. They have heavy hitters, but nothing really unusual. They'll do fine in most head on fights, but that's all they can do!

[csyphrett]

They really only two-three heavy hitters at that (Sentry, Iron Man, and Spider Man.) If you have the sheer power to knock those three out, You can walk over the rest of the team.


I know, I know. Captain America is the best at what he does, and so is Wolverine, but if I blow the crap out of Sentry, I am not too worried about these two.

CES

[Hugh Neilson]

They really only two-three heavy hitters at that (Sentry, Iron Man, and Spider Man.) If you have the sheer power to knock those three out, You can walk over the rest of the team.

This was never a problem with the old lineups....

Like Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Wasp and Giant-Man :rolleyes:

Well, at least they killed off Hawkeye - after all, who's going to take out Thor/Sentry, Iron Man and Captain America and then be worried about Hawkeye , right?

[Hugh Neilson]

Here's the thing I don't like about the New Avengers: it's sloppy team building.

By whom? The team themselves? Can they send out a "Help Wanted" ad? "Shapeshifter required for Superteam. Must be experienced. Please provide references and Hunteds list. We thank all applicants for their interest, but only candidates under consideration will be considered."

Maybe they should actively recruit members, but that's not the same book as "here are some characters thrown together by circumstances to deal with threats as they arise".


Look at their roster. Do they have a mentalist? No. Do they have a mystic? A speedster? Shapshifter? No. They have heavy hitters, but nothing really unusual. They'll do fine in most head on fights, but that's all they can do!

The deus ex machina of always having the character on the team whose powers are just right to fix the problem seems to me to be lazy writing. Perhaps, sometimes, the heroes should have to use their brains to figure out a way to defeat the villain, not just to assess which multipower slot would work best.

[csyphrett]

This was never a problem with the old lineups....

Like Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Wasp and Giant-Man :rolleyes:

Well, at least they killed off Hawkeye - after all, who's going to take out Thor/Sentry, Iron Man and Captain America and then be worried about Hawkeye , right?


The Avengers have always had a wild card member in their line ups. Usually that was someone like the Scarlet Witch or Hawkeye.

One could change probabilities to suit. The other had an arrow for any situation.

The death of Hawkeye as presented was kind of poor. At least they brought him back only like 6 months later, instead of 20 years.

CES

[csyphrett]

By whom? The team themselves? Can they send out a "Help Wanted" ad? "Shapeshifter required for Superteam. Must be experienced. Please provide references and Hunteds list. We thank all applicants for their interest, but only candidates under consideration will be considered."

Maybe they should actively recruit members, but that's not the same book as "here are some characters thrown together by circumstances to deal with threats as they arise".



The deus ex machina of always having the character on the team whose powers are just right to fix the problem seems to me to be lazy writing. Perhaps, sometimes, the heroes should have to use their brains to figure out a way to defeat the villain, not just to assess which multipower slot would work best.

Remember what happened in the Goverment years. The Falcon had to be recruited to meet the EEOC guidelines.
CES

[Vanguard00]

I like the characters. Not necessarily the team as a whole (cuz I'm awfully tired of Wolverine), but I do like Spiderwoman, Cage and Spiderman being on the team, and I remain open-minded about what they'll be doing with Sentry.

That being said, I thought it'd be nice if the "New Avengers" were indeed new. Not that they couldn't have people who hadn't been on the Avengers before, but it would have been nice (in my mind) to have the Avenger 'greats' (Cap & Iron Man, in this case) perhaps give their blessing, but to have a group step up a la Thunderbolts to take their place. Proceed with the story as was laid out, but instead of Cap and Iron Man being there, why not two other non-Avengers? Or reserve Avengers, maybe...or whatever. Bring the team together and say, "Hey, there are no Avengers anymore. Let's step up and do it."

I like Bendis for the most part, but I think he could've done better on this one. The team just seems so disparate and contrived. That could just be me, though.

[Hugh Neilson]

The death of Hawkeye as presented was kind of poor. At least they brought him back only like 6 months later, instead of 20 years.

Am I missing something? I don't see Hawkeye as "back". He simply never died in the House of M timeline, so he's around (like Blink in Age of Apocalypse).

Now, I wouldn't be unhappy if he's brought back to stay via the House of M megaplot, but then we'd have to give Bendois the credit for reversing his death, wouldn't we? And even, in this month's Pulse, for acknowledging it was a stupid way to go.

[csyphrett]

I believe that Bendis stated this is the original timeline Hawkeye in the house of M reality.
CES

[Hugh Neilson]

I believe he has memories of both overlapping, again from Pulse, thanks to the little girl mutant deus ex machina.

[vitruvian23]

By whom? The team themselves? Can they send out a "Help Wanted" ad? "Shapeshifter required for Superteam. Must be experienced. Please provide references and Hunteds list. We thank all applicants for their interest, but only candidates under consideration will be considered."

Maybe they should actively recruit members, but that's not the same book as "here are some characters thrown together by circumstances to deal with threats as they arise".

I would hope that Cap and Tony kept the numbers of all the old and reserve Avengers - how many are there now, about a hundred? Of course, some of them might be pissy about having the team disbanded on them and then rebuilt with newbies rather than contacting any of them first... I really want to see the full scene of Falcon, Wonder Man, Warbird, et al asking Cap why he has Cage and Spider-Woman on the team and not them.

[Hugh Neilson]

I would hope that Cap and Tony kept the numbers of all the old and reserve Avengers - how many are there now, about a hundred? Of course, some of them might be pissy about having the team disbanded on them and then rebuilt with newbies rather than contacting any of them first... I really want to see the full scene of Falcon, Wonder Man, Warbird, et al asking Cap why he has Cage and Spider-Woman on the team and not them.

The Hercules miniseries (#4) addressed this from Herc's perspective briefly. It made him feel better about sucker punching Cap to take his shield.

[Hermit]

Well, I just got New Avengers #8 in the mail (Wow, on time for once ;) ) and I have to admit, the first few pages brought a smile to my face. I won't spoil anything for anybody, but this issue had me both annoyed with the continued attempts to get Logan on board (how it is rationalized) and pleased that he is being portrayed in a fashion other than jerk.

The focus is, of course, on the Sentry, who I confess, despite his being started as a hoax, I could get to like.

[Southern Cross]

As could I.Let's hope that Bendis can at least make his origin more plausible...

[Duke]

I've been collecting it from the start as well. I'm still not sure of how I feel about the line up, but I felt the sameway when I started collecting west coast avengers years ago. I like the new artists work that has done that last two issues. The faces seem more realistic with their expressions.

As for the overall plot thus far it seems alright and the scripting is excellent.