Zatanna vs Scarlet Witch [Archive] - HERO Games Discussion Boards

Lord Liaden

Feb 16th, '03, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Glen Sprigg
I'll go with Zatanna; she has more experience as a sorceress than Wanda. Wanda's got her hex powers, yes, but Zatanna can simply do a lot more.

Glen

Can't speak to the very latest version of Zatanna, but with her probability-altering powers much more under her control, there's very little that the Scarlet Witch can't currently do.

More to the point, can Zatanna perform a Transian gypsy folk dance that'll boost your blood pressure? I think not! ;)

Superskrull

Feb 16th, '03, 07:36 AM

Despite the attraction of fishnet stockings, I'm going with the homo sapiens superior over the homo sapiens magi. Zatanna might have had and possibly even been regaining her old "Anything Goes" level of magic but Wanda can slap reality around and call it 'Susan' if she wants. She has a decent level of training, aptitude and experience wielding magic and it stacks good with her mutant power of changing reality by wiggling her fingers at it. She's the one who's capable of having babies with an android and bringing back her dead boyfriend from the twin dooms of becoming one with the ionosphere and having his comic cancelled. :D

Nucleon

Feb 16th, '03, 07:55 AM

I don't know too much about Zatanna. Does she still have that backward words transformation magic? If she has, that would make her more in control of her juju, while Scarlet Witch effects, althought more powerful, seems quite random. She tends to tire fast, too.

I give the edge to the Witch in the end, because of her Avenger hand-to-hand training. She seems a more well-rounded character.

Ooops.

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Superskrull
Despite the attraction of fishnet stockings, I'm going with the homo sapiens superior over the homo sapiens magi.

Now THERE is a man with a memory... I thought I was the only one who remembered that Homo Magi storyline in JLA... :D

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 09:01 AM

I think it comes down to potentials (sort of like Hulk vs Supes)... DC characters (whihc I love dearly) have sort of a set 'cap' that establishes what they can and cannot do... Marvel (especially in the case with a power as vague as the HEX) seems to have an open-ended expansion of power... That's why I gave it to wanda. The Hex power controls probability and, eventually, that's gonna get you...

Big Willy

Feb 16th, '03, 11:30 AM

Zee versus Wanda...

In mud...

With a nice shower afterwards...

Ahem.

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Big Willy
Zee versus Wanda...

In mud...

With a nice shower afterwards...

Ahem.

Now there's a visual

winterhawk

Feb 16th, '03, 12:07 PM

One word...fishnets :D ;)

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by winterhawk
One word...fishnets :D ;)

Ah... but wanda in the bodice.... *drool*

Chaosliege

Feb 16th, '03, 12:15 PM

I don't realy know a lot about Zatanna, but I do know how powerful SW is. I give it to her.

Agent X

Feb 16th, '03, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Now THERE is a man with a memory... I thought I was the only one who remembered that Homo Magi storyline in JLA... :D Hey! I knew that one too.:(

Agent X

Feb 16th, '03, 02:38 PM

Scarlet Witch can take Zatanna out by muffling her. I don't see how Z matches up well.

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Agent X
Hey! I knew that one too.:(

Are we like twins seperated at birth?

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Agent X
Scarlet Witch can take Zatanna out by muffling her.

That just sounded dirty!

Agent X

Feb 16th, '03, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
That just sounded dirty! I knew somebody would go there.

Superskrull

Feb 16th, '03, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Now THERE is a man with a memory... I thought I was the only one who remembered that Homo Magi storyline in JLA... :D

No problem. I can make a Geek Check with the best of 'em.
However, I'm kinda hazy on just what happened to that guy she was hanging out with post-Detroit League who had aquired artificial magi genetics. I wanna say he got eaten by some boojum but I'm not sure. What was his name again? Adam or something?

Mutant for Hire

Feb 16th, '03, 04:56 PM

Who wins in a mud wrestling competition? ;)

Acroyear II

Feb 16th, '03, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Who wins in a mud wrestling competition? ;)

Who wins? We, the viewing audience, of course!

Oh, and by the way, fishnets allow Zatanna to win any contest by default.:)

Acroyear II

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Agent X
I knew somebody would go there.

Admit it... you knew it'd be me.

MisterVimes

Feb 16th, '03, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Superskrull
No problem. I can make a Geek Check with the best of 'em.
However, I'm kinda hazy on just what happened to that guy she was hanging out with post-Detroit League who had aquired artificial magi genetics. I wanna say he got eaten by some boojum but I'm not sure. What was his name again? Adam or something?

I so completely hated that period that I have blocked it from my mond... Giffen and McGuire's poste Legends League helped...:D

Superskrull

Feb 17th, '03, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
I so completely hated that period that I have blocked it from my mond... Giffen and McGuire's poste Legends League helped...:D

I think that's why my own memories are hazy at best. I probably could remember, but I don't wanna. That way lies bad stuff... like the Detroit League itself.

I guess the only think I've liked about Zatanna's stories since Detroit was that she wasn't sucked into Vertigo with the other supernaturals and the wierdos.

MisterVimes

Feb 17th, '03, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Superskrull
I think that's why my own memories are hazy at best. I probably could remember, but I don't wanna. That way lies bad stuff... like the Detroit League itself.

I guess the only think I've liked about Zatanna's stories since Detroit was that she wasn't sucked into Vertigo with the other supernaturals and the wierdos.

Most of the Vertigo stuff was in the DCU (Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer) and Zatana in some of those stories was pretty cool, she had to hold her father's hand through a ritual in which he died to save her... pretty tough stuff.

Superskrull

Feb 17th, '03, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Most of the Vertigo stuff was in the DCU (Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer) and Zatana in some of those stories was pretty cool, she had to hold her father's hand through a ritual in which he died to save her... pretty tough stuff.

Sure, American Gothic was a cool story and one of the few decent tie-ins to Crisis. I just had this problem with the wierd dual continuity that sprang up around some characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing and the Doom Patrol where they ceased to interact with mainstream things/characters. OTOH, Zatana did pop up in Books of Magic and such but walked back to the 4-color side anyway. Poor Buddy Baker didn't squirm free of Vertigo's clutches til Morrison guest-starred him in the last issue or so of his run on JLA. Til then he was the forgotten JLE member. This is compared, of course, to the Beefeater, whom I'd really like to forget. :D

MisterVimes

Feb 17th, '03, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Superskrull
Sure, American Gothic was a cool story and one of the few decent tie-ins to Crisis. I just had this problem with the wierd dual continuity that sprang up around some characters such as Animal Man, Swamp Thing and the Doom Patrol where they ceased to interact with mainstream things/characters. OTOH, Zatana did pop up in Books of Magic and such but walked back to the 4-color side anyway. Poor Buddy Baker didn't squirm free of Vertigo's clutches til Morrison guest-starred him in the last issue or so of his run on JLA. Til then he was the forgotten JLE member. This is compared, of course, to the Beefeater, whom I'd really like to forget. :D

But on t'other hand Those first 12 issues of Animal Man we awesome... Beefeater... thanks, now I need to go scrub my brain again...

Superskrull

Feb 17th, '03, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
But on t'other hand Those first 12 issues of Animal Man we awesome... Beefeater... thanks, now I need to go scrub my brain again...

Oops. Sorry about that. :P Just wanna share the pain.
The Animal Man stuff was pretty good, 'til that nasty turn where his family was killed pointlessly.

MisterVimes

Feb 17th, '03, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Superskrull
Oops. Sorry about that. :P Just wanna share the pain.
The Animal Man stuff was pretty good, 'til that nasty turn where his family was killed pointlessly.

Yes, but I enjoyed the "Meet your Maker" part and in the end the family was restored (until the next writer messed with that)

Coyote Gospel may be one of the top ten stories I've ever read.

Dynamo

Feb 17th, '03, 11:33 PM

I have to give this one to the Scarlet Witch, partly because I just finished reading the Avengers issues covering her boost in power. And partly because everything I've read that involved Zatanna portrayed her so cheesily.

Superskrull

Feb 18th, '03, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Yes, but I enjoyed the "Meet your Maker" part and in the end the family was restored (until the next writer messed with that)

Coyote Gospel may be one of the top ten stories I've ever read.

Oh, yeah. Somehow I never saw a noble sacrifice coming from the coyote, but Tricksy was truly a noble figure.
This makes me wonder if Morrison could do something entertaining with the wreckage that is Blue Devil.
Peter Mulligan should be slapped around for what he did after Morrison, though.

MisterVimes

Feb 18th, '03, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Superskrull
Oh, yeah. Somehow I never saw a noble sacrifice coming from the coyote, but Tricksy was truly a noble figure.
This makes me wonder if Morrison could do something entertaining with the wreckage that is Blue Devil.
Peter Mulligan should be slapped around for what he did after Morrison, though.

Ah... Blue Devil... one of the great concepts allowed to rot in obscurity. I loved that character.

There are just some concepts that people can't get behind I guess. I read a statistic once (and I think it's true) that of all the comics (and characters) started in the 70's that the only one to survive to the 80's were Conan and Warlord, two Sword and Sorcery books. The point, however, was never made that these books had something those other books never had... consistancy. Roy Thomas wrote one FOREVER and Mike Grell wrote the other. The slow rotting death of great ideas comes from someone else destroying what came before through inconsistancy and trying 'a new angle'. Have you seen Thunderstrike lately? No. Because Thor is Thor. USAgent? no... because Cap is Cap. The only way to do that sort of thing is through the legacy angle that DC has done so well. Flash, Green Lantern (though I hated what they did to Hal), the JSA and my beloved Starman.

Gary

Feb 19th, '03, 10:26 AM

To me, this is a matter of great power vs great control. Wanda has virtually unlimited power, but she doesn't have absolute control. Zatanna has almost absolute control, but there are limits on her power.

That being said, I think Wanda would win for one simple reason. She has a higher dex due to Avenger training. Neither of them have what you would call high defenses, so the person with the first shot will win.

Still, I'd pay money to see them mud wrestling. :D

Nightfire

Feb 20th, '03, 05:56 PM

I have great respect for Wanda, but Zatanna has a class and style that you have to admire. Wanda has Avengers training true, but Zee dated John Constantine, whose girlfriends usually end up dead, so if she can survive him, she can definitly handle a catfight with Wanda.

death tribble

Feb 27th, '03, 09:08 AM

Have to say that I do not like Zatanna wearing the Fishnets and Magic Hat. Too stereotype. She did wear a costume in the JLA which was unique and good.

And the poll is quite close as well. Must say though that I go with the Scarlet Witch. Marvel always had better writers working on her and her place in the universe.

MisterVimes

Feb 27th, '03, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by death tribble
Have to say that I do not like Zatanna wearing the Fishnets and Magic Hat. Too stereotype. She did wear a costume in the JLA which was unique and good.

The costume with the Red headgear? She had a Bug on her head.... Give me the fishnet look anyday.

Champsguy

Feb 27th, '03, 12:08 PM

Both have dangerous families and scary ex-boyfriends, but the daughter of the Master of Magnetism gets the nod here.

Besides, I don't really dig the fishnets thing. Saw a fat girl in 'em once.

Gary

Mar 1st, '03, 11:52 PM

This is a pretty cute take on Zatanna. :)

http://profile.warnerbros.com/web/cartoon/cartoons.jsp

Prometheus

Mar 2nd, '03, 12:41 AM

I'd say it depends on the competition.

Scarlet Witch's Transian belly dance scores big over Zatanna's tap in the dance contest, but Z wins the hot legs contest hands down. Both ladies are disqualified from the wet t-shirt contest, for the sake of the judges' health.

Scarlet Witch dominates the roulette table, but Zatanna cleans out SW's Avengers account at poker. Zatanna kicks butt at Sorry, while Wanda wins at Stratego every time. Both ladies are eliminated in the first round of Magic: the Gathering.

Zatanna's rabbit stew gets beaten by Wanda's spicy meatballs, but her excellent fruit smoothy edges out SW's double strength espresso.

In the end though, Z's "relbboc hcaep ymmuy" get's the nod over Wanda's lame hexed bundt cake.

Acroyear II

Mar 3rd, '03, 12:08 PM

Zatanna wins hands down. I mean, just look at her costume. How can she go wrong with fishnet stockings. :)

Acroyear II

Mar 3rd, '03, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Acroyear II
Zatanna wins hands down. I mean, just look at her costume. How can she go wrong with fishnet stockings. :)

Heck, even her alternate costume was hot. :)

MisterVimes

Mar 3rd, '03, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Acroyear II
Heck, even her alternate costume was hot. :)

Yeah... but that red head-thingy was a bug...

Acroyear II

Mar 3rd, '03, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Acroyear II
Heck, even her alternate costume was hot. :)

And her new costume is nice looking too! I mean, what could go better with fishnet stockings than thigh high boots?

Kaeto

Mar 4th, '03, 03:15 AM

I think she looked better with the high heeled shoes instead of the boots.:D

As for the fight between Z and Wanda. Z would win since she can predict what occurs when she uses her spells which Wanda can't when she uses her hexes.

Balok

Mar 4th, '03, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Kaeto
Wanda can't [predict what occurs] when she uses her hexes.

Untrue -- at least for recent versions of her.

Wanda wins easily if she knows (or realizes quickly enough) that Zatanna's big weakness is that she must speak to use her magic. And that becomes apparent within the first or second spell. Even without knowing this, the ability to control probability allows her to counter any effect that doesn't knock her out or kill her without too much difficulty. If Zatanna knows or figures out that Wanda is playing dice with the universe (apologies to Mr. Einstein), and can form a spell to counter that, then she wins. That's at best a long shot.

st barbara

Mar 28th, '03, 01:58 PM

Actually I think I prefer the fishnet stockings to the thigh high boots. The latter bring back too many bad memories of 60's/70's "Marvel" characters (such as the terminally lame "Killraven"). For what it's worth I think that "The Scarlet Witch" would probably win the fight, but i think that "Zatanna" would get more dates !

Egyptoid

Jan 30th, '06, 01:57 PM

How Appropriate is Thread Necromancy on this particular Debate?

2 years and nine months in the grave, yet it rises.

!esira daerht!

realistically, doesnt it come down to who gets initiative?
Zatanna has incantations, Wanda has gestures...

TheRavenIs

Jan 30th, '06, 04:01 PM

Vanguard00

Jan 30th, '06, 05:04 PM

Heh...good thread necromancy :thumbsup:

Zatanna, cuz every time I see her I get that Joe Cocker song in my head...

"You can leave your hat on..."

I'll be in my bunk.

Killer Shrike

Jan 30th, '06, 05:27 PM

Are you kidding me? The Scarlet Witch has basically the penultimate "bull****" Power, second only to Franklin Richards. Unless there is an opportunity for soap opera style melodrama involving an android or a coherent energy being that wears sunglasses, she wins.

Chuckg

Jan 30th, '06, 05:41 PM

And Zatanna once put an atmosphere and an ocean on the Moon, as a *side effect* of a dyslexic episode. She also rebuilt Metropolis from a literal smoking crater in seconds.

They are both stupid plot devices, although the recent Bendis-ized Crazy Wanda is notably worse, yes.

Whitewings

Jan 30th, '06, 06:09 PM

Actually, Zatanna doesn't need to speak backwards, or at all, to use her magic. To quote: "When will people figure out that's just a concentration exercise?"

austenandrews

Jan 30th, '06, 06:14 PM

I don't know squat from Zatanna. The fishnets are hot but the magician's assistant outfit is tres lame. Give me Wanda, every geekboy's dream chick.

OddHat

Jan 30th, '06, 06:56 PM

Real writer's fiat contest, but I'm going with Zatanna. She has more history behind her. From a power POV, Zatanna at her best was able to create fully functional duplicates of the entire Silver Age JLA at once, though of course Wanda at her best can re-write history.

As always in comics, it comes down to who the writer wants to win.

starblaze

Jan 30th, '06, 06:59 PM

I have to give it to Zatanna simply because she, unlike Wanda, doesn't go INSANE every so often.

nexus

Jan 30th, '06, 07:23 PM

I don't know muchj about Zatanna but Wanda is stupid Plot Device powers with powers that use that classic line "Limited only by her imagination" IE What ever the writers need her to do at the time. OTOH, pretty much the same thing can be said of almost any comic book mage but SW did just rewrite history...

Vanguard00

Jan 30th, '06, 07:28 PM

Actually, after her bit in and around the "Seven Soldiers" series (written by Grant Morrison), I like her a lot more than I used to. Wanda, on the other hand, was always a favorite of mine until Bendis wrecked her (which is one of the few plots/stories of his I really really don't like).

And yeah, Wanda was hot, but that song.... :rolleyes: :o :p :bounce:

st barbara

Jan 30th, '06, 08:29 PM

I note that the poll was running neck and neck. Interesting.

Hermit

Jan 30th, '06, 08:41 PM

Wanda, on the other hand, was always a favorite of mine until Bendis wrecked her (which is one of the few plots/stories of his I really really don't like).

Yeah. Sad to say I just can't see Wanda being welcome back in the Avengers anytime soon, and I've been soured on her now.

OddHat

Jan 30th, '06, 08:42 PM

I note that the poll was running neck and neck. Interesting.

They're both Plot Device heroines, and both have been up and down the power scale. Considering how long it has been since Zatanna was written at her full Class: Absurd power levels, I'm surprised she's doing so well.

bigdamnhero

Jan 30th, '06, 08:51 PM

I note that the poll was running neck and neck. Interesting.
I was going to make a crack about them being tied neck & neck, but I was afraid some folks might overheat. Possibly me.

bigdamnhero
"I'll be in my bunk" (Yes, I know Vanguard00 beat me to it.)

Mr. Negative

Jan 30th, '06, 10:43 PM

As much as I hate to do so, I think that recent comics would possibly give the nod to Zantanna.

The Scarlet Witch has dangerous levels of power, and those levels of power are only tenuously under her control. She also has very little apparent understanding of her power's nature, origin, and potential (according to Dr. Strange, no less). She veers between odd and nutty as a fruitcake, and while a long-time Avenger, she's also recently caused them some of their most horrible moments (the whole meltdown episodes).

Zantanna has quite prodigious powers and they appear to be quite well understood and controlled by her. She is capable of working magic with great precision (though not perfectly) and she evidently has a great deal of knowledge about magic (vis even Batman consulting her about the Lazarus Pits). She is not an unconscious controller of magic. Also, while the events revealed in Identity Crisis cause a lot of problems for the League (whatever you think of the story line), Zantanna's actions were approved by a significant portion of the league, and didn't result in the death (directly, or indirectly) of members of the League.

BOTH have ridiculously murky powers.

Yes, Zantanna can be rendered incapable by being silenced, but heck, they are both basically normal humans and can be rendered incapable by being bonked on the head, for Pete's sake.

Heck, I'm giving my nod to Zantanna just for having a less complicated magical ability. She's not a mutant with the power to control probability, use "hex magic", and "chaos magic" (which doesn't even evidently exist according to Dr. Strange). She's a magician. Occam's Razor and fishnets win in my book.

tgrandjean

Jan 31st, '06, 12:40 AM

Power schmower... I voted for Zantanna 'cause of the power of fishnets.

Also, concidering that she's hung around John Constantine and is still alive she has to have some staying power. ;)

st barbara

Jan 31st, '06, 01:05 AM

Power schmower... I voted for Zantanna 'cause of the power of fishnets.

Also, concidering that she's hung around John Constantine and is still alive she has to have some staying power. ;)
She's probably just good friends with "Sandman's" older sister !

Marketeer

Jan 31st, '06, 02:12 AM

She's probably just good friends with "Sandman's" older sister !

Tim Hunter likes'em both, that's got to count for something.

;)

caris

Jan 31st, '06, 02:20 AM

I'm going with mutually assured destruction and a good portion of the scenery (like at least a continent) goes with them.

assault

Jan 31st, '06, 02:59 AM

Actually, Zatanna doesn't need to speak backwards, or at all, to use her magic. To quote: "When will people figure out that's just a concentration exercise?"

Unfortunately, her powers aren't consistently portrayed that way.

For example, in Catwoman #50, Selina briefly messes her up by taping her mouth shut and pushing her out a window. Zee subsequently lands a good punch on Selina, rips the tape off, and immobilises Selina with two words.

Of course, this story is complete hogwash, since it's part of the JLA messing with peoples' heads storyline, but the actual fight seemed fair enough.

(The main problem with the story is that it conflicts with things like "Selina's Big Score", where she is unambiguously still a thief, and is a pointless tweak of her established character).

Blue

Jan 31st, '06, 06:13 AM

I have to say that Wanda is useless now.

Not to say that she couldn't be fixed; By moving her completely out of the known marvel universe.

Seriously. I wish I had a shot at writing it.

austenandrews

Jan 31st, '06, 07:37 AM

I have to say that Wanda is useless now.

Not to say that she couldn't be fixed; By moving her completely out of the known marvel universe.
Bah! See, I haven't read these inane stories you all are describing, so for me they don't exist. In my head Wanda is not tainted. Ergo I will always be open to a reset. And if the damage is as bad as all that, I suspect I'm not alone in that regard, even among current readers.

FenrisUlf

Jan 31st, '06, 08:54 AM

To this day, I am sheepishly ashamed that my favorite amalgram from the DC vs Marvel series was "The White Witch". It was like Mae West of the mystic set. I know it was my inner juvenile that liked her, but I couldn't help it. :D

You too, huh?

Maybe I should try and write her up or something. You can never have too many sexy sorceresses around, after all.

EDIT: And let me add, my all-time favorite comicbook sorceress is Amora the Enchantress. Forget Thor. To me, my blond she-beast...
:thumbup: :rockon:

GoldenAge

Jan 31st, '06, 10:51 AM

Wanda's only practicle magic training has come under Agatha Harkness; the supposed leader of the Salem Witches, whose powers (and age) are dubiously portrayed at best. That training only lasted a short while. The results were minor as Wanda (through her new magic skills) was only able to slightly refine her Probability Hex ability.

Though Wanda's ability to make cataclysmic events reality (for instance, when she brought the shoreline cliffs of California down on her friend Wonder Man) is very real, the benign side of her abilities is less so. As recently as the end of the Avengers Wanda was still working on using her hex abilities for simple effects of good (like healing Captain America, for instance). For subtle effects and scrying Wanda must meditate and concentrate on the direction of her chaos magic.

On the other hand...

Zatanna was born homo magi, imbued with a sensitivity to magic (homo magi that built Atlantis and later became the Hidden Ones). They were the first dominant society in recorded history, tens of thousands of years ago. Zatanna's mother, Sindella, was a Hidden One.

Since she was a prepubescent Zatanna has been refining her magical abilitite under the supervision of her father Giovanni "John" Zatara and others.

Zatanna routinely skips through dimensions, partners with the mightiest sorcerers in the universe and teleports to the moon and back. It is said that Zatanna is made up of pure magic, and she is considered one of the most formidable mages on the planet. For a time, she lost a great deal of this power (#191) Just before she left the JLA, Zatanna mystically merged with the "Godhead," the collective consciousness of all beings, living and dead. She believed that this event would change her life forever. Perhaps it did; when she next appeared, it appeared that her magical abilities were back at full strength. (World's Finest #277, Spectre v.2 #7).

Zatanna has yet to discover the upper limit of her abilities... if there is one.

my vote... Zatanna

Brother Jim

Jan 31st, '06, 01:12 PM

Zatanna

because i can't vote for some crazy broad.......even if she is hot.

Tim

Jan 31st, '06, 01:47 PM

Zantanna, because control and finesse will win out over raw power almost all the time.

austenandrews

Jan 31st, '06, 01:55 PM

She obviously has no control over her fashion sense.

st barbara

Jan 31st, '06, 03:42 PM

Top hat, tail coat, leotard and fishnets. What's wrong with that ?

austenandrews

Jan 31st, '06, 04:12 PM

All she's missing are tap shoes.

Prometheus

Jan 31st, '06, 05:48 PM

She obviously has no control over her fashion sense.

All she's missing are tap shoes.

As opposed to the bustier, heels, over-teased hair, and what we'll call a high slit dress but looks like a pair of curtains?

http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/galactus/issue6/gtd6-4.jpg

All she's missing is some chewing gum and a street corner.

Tim

Jan 31st, '06, 06:04 PM

But this has been SW's default uniform.

austenandrews

Jan 31st, '06, 06:34 PM

That's what I'm talkin bout!

starblaze

Feb 1st, '06, 05:41 AM

But this has been SW's default uniform.
Alright so now she looks like a Vegas showgirl.

Storm Shadow

Feb 1st, '06, 05:48 AM

ekoj a si annataz! eid tsum ehs! :thumbdown

MisterBaldy

Feb 1st, '06, 05:58 AM

Ah... Blue Devil... one of the great concepts allowed to rot in obscurity. I loved that character.
Same here...Blue Devil was an awesome character. Stunt/SFX expert gets mystically trapped in his special effects suit, when it merges with his body.

It was an interesting twist to the "radiation accident" theme.

Another really interesting character that was allowed to drop into obscurity...Moon Knight.

It's great to see Marvel reviving him!!! :thumbup:

John Desmarais

Feb 1st, '06, 08:31 AM

Ah... Blue Devil... one of the great concepts allowed to rot in obscurity. I loved that character.

Not total obscurity. He was front and center in the recent Days of Vengence storyline (along with a bunch of other quasi-mystics who haven't been seen in a while).

transmetahuman

Feb 1st, '06, 12:34 PM

That's what I'm talkin bout!
It's that headdress that's always had me baffled. Especially back when it extended below her chin. WTF?

austenandrews

Feb 1st, '06, 12:47 PM

It's that headdress that's always had me baffled. Especially back when it extended below her chin. WTF?
Jack Kirby character. Whaddya gonna do? The man loved him some headdresses. I think it was supposed to be some kind of wimple or something originally.

Egyptoid

Feb 1st, '06, 01:03 PM

one man's ideas.....
http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/zatanna.GIF
16 STR _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Watched: Mystic Powers (MP, NCI, 11-)
20 DEX _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Distinctive Features: Gorgeous,
30 CON _ _ _ _ _ _ _ All Powers Obvious when used,
13 BOD _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Extreme Reaction (Spooky)
38 INT _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Psych: Must Speak Spells, Backwards
48 EGO _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Psych: Occasionally gets giddy and afraid
25 PRE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Loose"
32 COM _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Loves Father & Misses Mother
30 PD _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Homo-Magi Bonus
30 ED _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Quite Public ID
5 SPD
25 REC
80 END
80 STN
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
20/20 Resistant Pd/Ed
Full Life Support
26pts Mental Defense
20pts Power Defense
TK Fine Manip. 0 End 10 Str
360 Degreee Spatial Awareness
Sense Magic at Range, 360 degrees, Targeting,
Discriminatory, +13 to Per Roll
Extra-Dimensional Travel, Any Dimension
125 Point Variable Power Pool, Incantations
req. Skill Roll, Any types of Powers
Luck 5 Dice, Usable by Others, Not at Same Time
+3 Levels with Magic Pool
+25 PRE, Defensive Only

Occultist: 19- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Air Magic Skill: 19- _ _ _ Earth Magic Skill: 19-
Flame Magic Skill: 19- _ _ _ Light Magic Skill 19- _ _ Ice Magic Skill: 19-
Plant Magic Skill: 19- _ _ _ Sorcery: 18- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Water Magic Skill: 19-

Weather Magic Skill: 19- _ _ Business 14- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Wealth 10
Trader 15- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Showmanship 13- _ _ _ _ _ Stage Magic 16-
Sleight of Hand 19- _ __ _ _ KS: Magic 18-

Connection: Mystical Community
Justice League of Alabama
Magic Background

Gender: Female _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Alter Ego: Zatanna Zatara _ _ __ Height: 5'7"
Weight: 126 pounds _ _ _ _ _ Eyes: Blue _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Hair: Black

ORIGIN: daughter of magicians
TACTICS: turns the tables on opponents

COSTUME: blue and white "Reed"-suit
PERSONALITY: more complicated than this one line

BACKGROUND NOTES:
WHAT IF ZATANNA hadn't put on those silly fish-net tights & the top-hat?
This is Zatanna post-modern. She used to have real low defenses and more
magic power (VPP 200). But she gave up part of the pool to permanently
increase her own toughness & battlefield survivability.
This is the re-write version, taking into account the criticisms received,
as well as having played her as an NPC for eight+ game sessions.

rjcurrie

Feb 4th, '06, 12:17 AM

As much I hate commenting on the sexiness of two-dimensional drawings, I have to say I've always found Zatanna much more attractive than the Scarlet Witch. I think it might be an approachability thing. Zatanna strikes me as a more open, approachable woman; whereas, Wanda always seemed too distant and aloof to me. Also, I think her costume may just have way too much red in it.

Egyptoid

Feb 4th, '06, 03:21 PM

yeah, but Zatanna has a bug on her head.

don't tell me about the fish-nets and top hat again.
see my posts in DC suckverse to understand why.

shadow_walker

Feb 5th, '06, 09:40 AM

I vote for Zatanna, because I like fishnets.

Tim

Feb 5th, '06, 06:52 PM

Interesting.

People are voting because they like or dislike the costumes (and I'm including myself), not because A or B is more powerful.

OddHat

Feb 5th, '06, 06:57 PM

Interesting.

People are voting because they like or dislike the costumes (and I'm including myself), not because A or B is more powerful.

OTOH, Zatanna has managed to completely duplicate the entire Justice League, and the dupes were (apparently) just as powerful as the originals. Wanda has re-written good chunks of reality.

With Plot Device characters, you might as well pick a costume you like.

Tim

Feb 5th, '06, 07:11 PM

OTOH, Zatanna has managed to completely duplicate the entire Justice League, and the dupes were (apparently) just as powerful as the originals. Wanda has re-written good chunks of reality.

With Plot Device characters, you might as well pick a costume you like.
I'm not saying your wrong and personally wouldn't kick either of'em out of bed if they were real.
I was just commenting is all.

OddHat

Feb 5th, '06, 07:15 PM

I'm not saying your wrong and personally wouldn't kick either of'em out of bed if they were real.
I was just commenting is all.

Well, as far as which would make a better fantasy GF, Zatanna at least won't go crazy and re-write your brain. On the other hand, if that's what you like, Wanda's your girl. :D

Chuckg

Feb 5th, '06, 07:19 PM

Well, as far as which would make a better fantasy GF, Zatanna at least won't go crazy and re-write your brain.

... you must live on the timeline where IDENTITY CRISIS was never published, and the JLA never did stupid things like mindwipe each other to cover up their attempts to 'Clockwork Orange' supervillains.

What are the comics like there? Do they actually /not/ suck? Can you post scans? *pleading*

OddHat

Feb 5th, '06, 07:25 PM

... you must live on the timeline where IDENTITY CRISIS was never published, and the JLA never did stupid things like mindwipe each other to cover up their attempts to 'Clockwork Orange' supervillains.

What are the comics like there? Do they actually /not/ suck? Can you post scans? *pleading*

They follow this timeline. (http://bobtokyo.robertdorf.com/Timeline%20II.htm)

(I stopped reading Marvel and DC around 1993 or so, save for the odd TPB; never regretted it. I'd forgotten that they made Zatanna a mind rapist as well.)

Chuckg

Feb 5th, '06, 07:31 PM

I'd forgotten that they made Zatanna a mind rapist as well.

As we speak, thousands upon thousands of DC comics fans are deeply envying your lack of memory.

Marketeer

Feb 6th, '06, 01:49 PM

You can always fall back to animated portrayals, since goodness knows "Justice League" is truer to the cores of the characters than the comics these days:

Zatanna: JLU appearances

Scarlet Witch: Avengers aniamted appearances

...

...ok, so it's not very fair, Zatanna wins that comparison by a mile.

;)

FenrisUlf

Feb 7th, '06, 09:25 AM

They follow this timeline. (http://bobtokyo.robertdorf.com/Timeline%20II.htm)

(I stopped reading Marvel and DC around 1993 or so, save for the odd TPB; never regretted it. I'd forgotten that they made Zatanna a mind rapist as well.)

That's one good timeline there. Oh, and BTW, have you seen copies of the Wold Newton paperback floating around Barnes & Noble? Seems like it'd be right up your alley.

OddHat

Feb 7th, '06, 09:49 AM

That's one good timeline there. Oh, and BTW, have you seen copies of the Wold Newton paperback floating around Barnes & Noble? Seems like it'd be right up your alley.

Thanks, glad you liked it. :)

I'm a fan of the paperback. Posted a review of it on the boards somewhere.

Fuzzy Gnome

Feb 7th, '06, 01:10 PM

I'm not saying your wrong and personally wouldn't kick either of'em out of bed if they were real.
I was just commenting is all.
I'd definitely kick Wanda out of my bed. Just sleep with the Scarlet Witch once, next thing you know the Impossible Man or more likely Willie Lumpkin wakes up from a night's sleep saying "What a weird dream. There isn't any such thing as a fuzzy gnome."

Karma

Feb 7th, '06, 08:09 PM

I'm not sure how powerful Zantanna is supposed to be in the DC universe, but given that the Scarlet Witch single handedly changed the entire world to one where Magneto had won and then chaged it again and decimated the 'powered' mutant population of Earth all because in her insanity she had become a threat that it was decided needed the combined power of the Avengers and the X-men to *kill* (that's right she was too dangerous for the heroes to allow to live) I'd have to go with her.

Of course she may have depowered herself during 'Decimation' in which case Zantanna would win.