My D&D 3e Arcane Magic Conversion

[Killer Shrike]

The Magic System has been detailed and a link is provided below.

<a href="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHeroContent/Magic.htm">Magic System</a>

[Killer Shrike]

O Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=0


O Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=0

[Killer Shrike]

1st Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=1

1st Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=1

[Killer Shrike]

2nd Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=2

2nd Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=2

[Killer Shrike]

3rd Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=3

3rd Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=3

[Killer Shrike]

4th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=4

4th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=4

[Killer Shrike]

5th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=5

5th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=5

[Killer Shrike]

6th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=6

6th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=6

[Killer Shrike]

7th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=7

7th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=7

[Killer Shrike]

8th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=8

8th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=8

[Killer Shrike]

9th Level Wizardry Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=9

9th Level Elementalism Spells

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Elementalism&Provider=Killer%20Shrike&SpellLevel=9

[tiger]

Very nice. Your have to post a doc file with all the stats, be highly useful.

The only question mark I have is the limitation for Arcane Magic Only. I wouldn't see where a Witch or Wild Mage or even a Illusionist would get the limitation, so I question a Arcane mage having it. Just seems that they would be limited in thre spells they would be allowed to have in the campaign instead, which is one of the limitations.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by tiger
Very nice. Your have to post a doc file with all the stats, be highly useful. What stats do you mean?



The only question mark I have is the limitation for Arcane Magic Only. I wouldn't see where a Witch or Wild Mage or even a Illusionist would get the limitation, so I question a Arcane mage having it. Just seems that they would be limited in thre spells they would be allowed to have in the campaign instead, which is one of the limitations.

Well, Limited Type Of Powers Available is a valid limitation on a VPP. "Magic" is generally -1/4. In a world with many different types of magic, particularly the big divisor between "Arcane" and "Divine" Magic and further subsets of each, "Arcane Magic" as a -1/2 seems reasonable. On the surface it stops a Wizard or Sorceror from using Clerical spells, which mechanically are identical and would slot into thier VPP no problem if not restricted.

A Bard has an even smaller subset of Arcane Spells, including a small handful which are Bard only (and therefore not usable by other types of spellcasters). Thus, they are even more limited in thier spell selection and -3/4 seems fair to me.

A hardcore specialist Wizard that ONLY knew how to cast spells from thier school of choice, such as an Illusionist could take a -3/4 lim (Illusions only in this case) if they want, but D&D Magic doesnt really work that way; specialists only loose access to 1 or a few other schools. In my conversion to the HERO System this will most likely be handled in a Specialist Package Deal with 1 or more Physical Limitations (Cannot Learn Spells from School X, All the Time, Slightly Limiting).

[tiger]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
[B]What stats do you mean?

Nice doc file list the write-ups for the various spells. Be great material for other conversions and such



The write ups are quite nice and could easily be adapted into other GM's campaigns.

[mattingly]

Man, where was this stuff three months ago, when I needed it?

I've reproduced most of this work for my upcoming GenCon game, which will pit a HERO-ized D&D party (8th to 10th level) against a team of superheroes. All are built on 350 points.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by mattingly
Man, where was this stuff three months ago, when I needed it?

I've reproduced most of this work for my upcoming GenCon game, which will pit a HERO-ized D&D party (8th to 10th level) against a team of superheroes. All are built on 350 points.
Well dont be shy Dave; post it! ;)

As a point of comparison, my conversion spec currently has character of 8 to 10th levels coming out around 275-300 points, with up to an additional 50 points of disadvantages taken via Package Deals (from multiclassing, etc). Currently, Im forcing all classes to fit the same point scale to better model the supposed class balancing in 3e.

Id be very happy to see your conversion spec for ideas/counterpoint ;)

BTW, I got those documents sent off last week; they should be arriving at the 1 Haight St address soon. Let me know if they dont show.....

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by tiger
Nice doc file list the write-ups for the various spells. Be great material for other conversions and such



The write ups are quite nice and could easily be adapted into other GM's campaigns. Ah, well, yes, eventually I could easily dump all of it into HTML documents, which is my plan.


All help is appreciated and will be credited, so folx, dont be shy.

As time permits over the next few weeks, Ill be posting whatever data I can as I manage to get it done. Supposedly 2 of my players are helping out; Dr. Lucky is working on 4th level spells, and Wily Quixote is working on second, but what can I say except they are lazy good for nothing scum (until they produce something, at which time they become saints ;) )

After we get the Arcane magic polished enough to work with, Ill turn to on the Divine. Im mulling over how to handle Domain spells.....any suggestions are appreciated.

The big problem I have is that in 3e some spells are different levels for different casters. This is a big problem when doing magic as a VPP, because the AP limit on the spells is designed to fit into a VPP of a certain size. Thus if class A gets a spell at 3rd spell level, but Class B gets it at 4th, Im not sure how to resolve that cleanly. There are several options, but none of them are very 'elegant'....

[tengu]

I'd like to check out that website... however, it seems to be down. The doman name is just gone. You might want to check on that.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by tengu
I'd like to check out that website... however, it seems to be down. The doman name is just gone. You might want to check on that. Hmm.. so it is. Maybe the server is down....

[ShadowRaptor]

With the different classes getting same spells at different levels, you could always just apply the total points to whichever level it appears at on the class charts at the lowest level.

Say Class A gets spell at level 4, and Class B gets spell at level 3, then treat the spell itself at level 3 regardless of which other classes have it at whatever level they got it originally.

When translating D&D over I am not expecting everything to remain the same, but my god those spells you have converted over have the right feel, and now I am really seeing the versatility of HERO.

How long you been playin this game Shrike? I wish I lived where you live so I could be in a game that you run, if you run one.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor
With the different classes getting same spells at different levels, you could always just apply the total points to whichever level it appears at on the class charts at the lowest level.

Say Class A gets spell at level 4, and Class B gets spell at level 3, then treat the spell itself at level 3 regardless of which other classes have it at whatever level they got it originally.

Yeah, that is one of the options, but it begs the question why would a class that gets it at a higher level bother with a weaker spell rather than just redesigning it with 15 more AP (ie +1 Spell Level).

Its not a game stopper, just an irritating exception to an otherwise straight forward conversion.



When translating D&D over I am not expecting everything to remain the same, but my god those spells you have converted over have the right feel, and now I am really seeing the versatility of HERO. Yeah, thats the view you have to take. I convert Databases for a living. Sometimes you have to go for "really friggin close"




How long you been playin this game Shrike? I wish I lived where you live so I could be in a game that you run, if you run one.

Ive been gaming for 18 years, and playing HEROs for 12 going on 13 years.

I run almost all the time in my group. Currently Im running a supers game.

In the past I ran many GreyHERO campaigns with my old 2ed ADD to 4th HERO SYstem game, over the course of 3 years. I recently ran a 1 year 3e campaign, and played in a 3 month 'accelerated' 3e campaign (1st to 13th level in 3 months -- very fast) to try the system out from the other side of the screen. Been back to HEROs now for about 7 months of actual play......

[Killer Shrike]

OK, now that the Continuing Charges gotchas seem to have been ironed out of Hero Designer, Im getting back to work on this. I have to go back through the levels I have done and find the spells that need to be edited and fix them. I had gotten about 1/3 of the way through 5th level before the Charges glitch in HD brought me to a halt before Dan went on vacation, so Ill resume completion of that list soon too.


Ive got one niggling problem however. How to do the Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration spells?

Keep in mind that the Magic System already operates out of a VPP and the Shadow Spells would just be spells coming out of the slots.

1 way is to just treat it as a proxy in thier spell pool and let the caster switch it out for the appropriate spell at the time of casting, but thats really awkward/kludgy.

Im looking for some elegant way to do it that works within the existing framework rather than despite it.

Looking forward to any and all input; I hope to tackle this tonight and could am currently clueless. Ok, fair enough, Im always clueless, but in this case Im also clueless and irresolute :D

[Killer Shrike]

I realize this isnt a post on Racial Characteristic Maximas or a Poll, but surely SOMEBODY has an opinion on the matter?

How to do Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration within the framework described above.

Ideas?





Mental Illusions is one possibility that Ive been looking at, but it doesnt really yield the same effect.

[Captain Obvious]

In my opinion this calls more for handwaving than an actual writeup. I would say that these spells essentially let a character cast any other appropriate spell without having to actually study it, but with reduced damage.

(Assuming of course, that I remember correctly what it is these spells do...I've only played 1st ed D&D, and not for about 15 years....)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious
In my opinion this calls more for handwaving than an actual writeup. I would say that these spells essentially let a character cast any other appropriate spell without having to actually study it, but with reduced damage.

(Assuming of course, that I remember correctly what it is these spells do...I've only played 1st ed D&D, and not for about 15 years....)

Yeah, the placeholder effect is another Ive been looking at but it seems really kludgy.

The way SE and SC work in 3e is the target(s) get a Will save to detect that the spell is an illusion; if they do they take a small amount of damage, if they fail the save they believe the spell is real and it resolves normally, including further Saves as dictated by the copied spell.

[Killer Shrike]

Ok, Im halfway done with 5th level, and have posted them. The Shadow spells are looming on the event horizon.....


Anyhoo; is anyone getting any use out of this?

[BlackCobra]

Yes, yes, yes!

It's giving me ideas for doing my own magic system for a non-D&D thing I may be running in the future.

It's also making me think I could take my Epic-level campaign and convert it to Hero. Assuming the players didn't push me down the stairs for even suggesting it! :)

[Killer Shrike]

GAH. Im going through the FH Playtest doc, and Im seeing bits I want to go back and incorporate into this, but cant. Tantalus Modern Day....

[Killer Shrike]

Finally got around to finishing 5th level. Hooray!

Wall of Force is hard to do in HEROs; its clearly much more powerful than most other 5th level spells. Similar to Magic Missile, where I did a 5th level superior version, Ill prolly do an upgraded superior Wall of Force at 9th Level :) .

[Killer Shrike]

0 lvl hdc

[Killer Shrike]

1st lvl hdc

[Killer Shrike]

2nd lvl hdc (place holder)

[Killer Shrike]

3rd lvl hdc

[Killer Shrike]

4th lvl hdc (place holder)

[Killer Shrike]

5th lvl hdc

08-05-2003 at 02:23 AM:
Finally got around to correcting the HD v2 created Continuing Charge Error

[Killer Shrike]

6th lvl hdc (place holder)

[Killer Shrike]

7th lvl hdc (place holder)

[Killer Shrike]

8th lvl hdc (place holder)

[Killer Shrike]

9th lvl hdc (place holder)

[AlHazred]

Nice job so far! I wouldn't worry too much about incorporating all of the Fantasy Hero bit in there. The Playtest Manuscript is just full of goodies that all of us are going to have to start new games to use...

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by AlHazred
Nice job so far! I wouldn't worry too much about incorporating all of the Fantasy Hero bit in there. The Playtest Manuscript is just full of goodies that all of us are going to have to start new games to use...
Thanx!

As far as FH is concerned, the main things I was eyeballing for the "default" D&D-esque magic system were some of the new advantages like Ritual and Window of Opportunity. And neither of those is necessary for any of the existing 3e spells, its just something Id like to add as additional material. Its all good though -- FH will soon be out ;)

[Fitz]

Just checking that I'm seeing what mozilla thinks I'm seeing:

I've grabbed the files you've posted here, and the L2 spells appear to be a duplicate of the L1 file, L4 is actually a duplicate of L3, and L6-9 are all duplicates of the L5 hdc.zip

Is that right, or is mozilla hallucinating?

Excellent work so far, by the way. This will save me a hell of a lot of work -- thanks.

[AlHazred]

That's why they're listed as "(placeholder)". So that, say, the posts don't become "lost" as the number of pages jumps and people post additional comments.

[Killer Shrike]

Thanx for the kind words.

A word of warning; due to a bug in the HD v2 alpha version (which I am testing), some of the spells which are supposed to be on Constant Charges are not correctly depicted. The "Constant" part of thier charge gets dropped. As soon as Dan fixes the bug Ill go back and fix them.

As far as the even leveled spells and the 6-9 lvls being copies -- thats bcs they are ;)

I put them in as placeholders as AlHazred notes. :)

[RPMiller]

Wow! KS, you are awesome. I am going to put your hard work to good use! I have been trying to get my players to get out of d20 and go to the Hero System, and I think this will be the mechanism that I can show them. THANKS!

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Durnin
Wow! KS, you are awesome. I am going to put your hard work to good use! I have been trying to get my players to get out of d20 and go to the Hero System, and I think this will be the mechanism that I can show them. THANKS!

Thanx for the kind words. Ive been slowly slogging my way thru it, but things keep getting in the way. The plan is to have a full blown conversion as comprehensive as my old AD&D 2nd Edition to HERO System (4th) Conversion. The Magic System is presenting the biggest challenge because Im completely revamping it from the way I used to do it.

[Vondy]

This looks really good.

Do you have a conversion for the base system as well, or are you winging that part?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by D-Man
This looks really good.

Do you have a conversion for the base system as well, or are you winging that part?
I have a working version of the base conversion which was posted in a different thread and has since been bumped way down. Ill go dig for it. :)

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
I have a working version of the base conversion which was posted in a different thread and has since been bumped way down. Ill go dig for it. :)

Thanks.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by D-Man
Thanks. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4562&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Heres a thread where I made some suggestions to another player. There was another more complete one, but I cant seem to find it.


Personally, I like to start "1st level" at 50 base and up to 75 points of Disadvantages (125) to capture that 1st level suck factor, and for my 3e to FRED conversion Im working on Im considering equating "levels" to +20/+15 points even/odd.

Thus a 2nd level character has 125+20 = 145 points, and a 7th level character would have 125+20+15+20+15+20+15 = 230 points.

By this method an 8th level Wizard/Fighter/whatever is the equivalent to a Low-powered Superhero and a 14th level character is roughly equivalent to a Standard Superhero.

To deal with multiclassing, Im considering increasing the Disadvantage limit for a character by 15 points at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels so long as they are in Package deals. That would allow a 20th level character to be from between 460 to 535 points if heavily Disadvantaged, which is really powerful.

The key thing to remember is that the the leveling chart is only really relevant for a) Converting material into HEROs, b) as a rough measuring stick to compare between the two systems, c) for spell casters that want to perpetuate the X per Caster Level/shtick in some of thier spells, and d) for defining checks & balances designed to maintain the D&D feel (like puting a Limitation on a magic item "must be at least 10th level to use -1/4), etc.


<table border=1><tr><th colspan=3>Level to Character Points Chart</th></tr><tr><th>3e</th><th>HERO</th><th>Max Disadvantage Cap</th></tr><tr><td>1st</td><td>125</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>2nd</td><td>145</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>3rd</td><td>160</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>4th</td><td>180</td><td>90</td></tr><tr><td>5th</td><td>195</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>6th</td><td>215</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>7th</td><td>230</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>8th</td><td>250</td><td>105</td></tr><tr><td>9th</td><td>265</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>10th</td><td>285</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>11th</td><td>300</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>12th</td><td>320</td><td>120</td></tr><tr><td>13th</td><td>335</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>14th</td><td>355</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>15th</td><td>370</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>16th</td><td>390</td><td>135</td></tr><tr><td>17th</td><td>405</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>18th</td><td>425</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>19th</td><td>440</td><td>-</td></tr><tr><td>20th</td><td>460</td><td>150</td></tr></table>

<hr>
Basically 3e Stats map directly to HERO Primarys, with the exception of body and comliness.

<table border=1><tr><th>3e</th><th>HERO</th></tr><tr><td>STR</td><td>STR</td></tr><tr><td>DEX</td><td>DEX</td></tr><tr><td>CON</td><td>CON</td></tr><tr><td>INT</td><td>INT</td></tr><tr><td>WIS</td><td>EGO</td></tr><tr><td>CHA</td><td>PRE</td></tr><tr><td>Discretionary</td><td>COM</td></table>

Calculate Figured Characteristics normally, and flavor to taste



Since HPs are a class feature and not a characteristic in D&D, and BODY is a characteristic (which is bought up, not freely aggregated), there is not an exact correlation between HP and BODY. Also, some of the function of HP is covered by STUN in HEROs.

In the past (2e -> 4e) (HP/10) + 8 = BODY worked out pretty well, but isnt so good for (3e-> to 5e) due to scaling differences in D&D (previously HP capped out at around mid level, now it continues to aggregate each level). You can see the problem in the below example.

Old school Method:

(HP/10) + 8, rounding in the character's favor at each step as normal (.5 thru .9 = a full point). This has the side effect of erasing some of the impact of "bad rolling" or "good rolling" that has occured for a given character as they leveled, but reflects the impact of hp differences at lower levels.

Thus a starting Wizard without a CON bonus has 8 BODY, like any average person, but a starting Barbarian has 9 BODY without a CON bonus and could have 10 BODY with a CON bonus or the Toughness feat, etc.

The downside to this method is that at higher levels characters have way more hit points than they used to. Thus a reasonably tough 20th level Fighter with a CON bounes of +3 might have around 175 hp with decent rolling; by this formula he would have 18 + 8 = 26 BODY.



Ive bounced around between several ideas on how to handle this. The 3 most promising at this time follow:

Option 1: Adjusted scale conversion:

<table border=1><tr><th>HP</th><th>BODY</th></tr><tr><td>1-4</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td>5-10</td><td>9</td></tr><tr><td>11-17</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>18-25</td><td>11</td></tr><tr><td>26-34</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td>35-44</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td>45-55</td><td>14</td></tr><tr><td>56-67</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td>68-80</td><td>16</td></tr><tr><td>81-94</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td>95-109</td><td>18</td></tr><tr><td>110-125</td><td>19</td></tr><tr><td>126-142</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td>143-160</td><td>21</td></tr><tr><td>161-179</td><td>22</td></tr><tr><td>180-199</td><td>23</td></tr><tr><td>200-220</td><td>24</td></tr><tr><td>221-242</td><td>25</td></tr><tr><td>243-265</td><td>26</td></tr><tr><td>266-289</td><td>27</td></tr><tr><td>290-314</td><td>28</td></tr><tr><td>315-340</td><td>29</td></tr><tr><td>341-367</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td>368-395</td><td>31</td></tr><tr><td>396-424</td><td>32</td></tr><tr><td>425-454</td><td>33</td></tr><tr><td>455-485</td><td>34</td></tr><tr><td>486-517</td><td>35</td></tr><tr><td>518-550</td><td>36</td></tr><tr><td>551-584</td><td>37</td></tr><tr><td>585-619</td><td>38</td></tr><tr><td>620-655</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td>656-692</td><td>40</td></tr><tr><td>etc</td><td>etc</td></tr></table>

On the plus side, this accelerates the scaling and the low end and slows down the scaling at the higher end. On the down side, I hate charts; I prefer formulas as they are much more consistent, fair, and easy to remember. However, when doing conversions charts are often the way to go, so there it is.


Option 2: Composite Conversion:

3e hit points are as much 'managing to not get seriously injured' as they are 'absorb actual damage'. The text is very clear on this in the PHB. Combat Luck is perhaps the best/most straight forward built-in way to do this in the HERO System. It does have the corrolary of stacking with real armor and contributing to "TANK WARS", but if access to it is controlled, it shouldnt get too far out of hand.

The main problem with Combat Luck in a Fantasy game is that normal armor caps out around 8 DEF, but 18 character pts will buy a character 9 PD/ 9 ED of Hardend & Resistant Combat Luck, making Armor a needless inconvenience. Canny players will try to exploit this, particularly those wanting to play a swashbuckler type character. This is fine and well for many campaigns, but to maintain the D&D feel I would suggest that this be locked down, limiting the number of levels of Combat Luck a character can have.

If we incorporate this into the HP conversion process and restrict Combat Luck to only being available as part of the BODY Conversion process and as a class feature, it takes care of itself like so:

BODY = (HP/15) + 8

<table border=1><tr><th>Hit Die</th><th>Combat Luck Rate</th></tr><tr><td>d4</td><td>5th,9th,13th,17th</td></tr><td>d6</td><td>4th,8th,12th,16th,20th</td></tr><td>d8</td><td>3rd,7th,11th,15th,19th</td></tr><td>d10</td><td>2nd,6th,10th,14th,18th</td></tr><td>d12</td><td>1st,5th,9th,13th,17th</td></tr></table>

A character doesnt have to take Combat Luck, and does not have to take it when indicated on the chart; thus when converting over a 15th level Barbarian (d12), a player has the option to take up to 4 levels of Combat Luck but does not have to if they would rather spend thier points elsewhere; if the player chose to only take 3 levels of Combat Luck when converting, but later earned more experience in the HERO System, they could then purchase a 4th level of Combat Luck if they chose to.


The downside to this method is that it becomes difficult to determine for some Multiclass characters. To handle such characters I recommend simply counting the number of levels at each hit die and comparing them seperately to determine the rate a character may pick up Combat Luck. Thus a 6th level Sorceror (d4)/ 2nd level Barbarian (d12)/ 3rd level Wizard (d4) would have 9 levels at d4 allowing them 2 levels of Combat Luck, and 2 levels at d12 allowing them 1 level of Combat Luck. Thus, the character could have a maximum of 3 levels of Combat Luck.

Option 3: BODY & STUN Conversion:

Since Hit Points in D&D serves a function that is split into BODY & STUN in the HERO System, it makes a certain amount of sense to consider STUN when converting a D&D character into the HERO System.

One thing to remember is that each point of BODY equals 1 point of STUN, so to some extent it is taken to account even if STUN is not considered seperately from any HP to BODY conversion. However, it could be argued that in D&D most of a characters Hit Points are really STUN, with only the last 5% of Hit Points or so truly indicating BODY equivalent damage.

To reflect this, use the following conversion formula:

BODY = (Hit Points/20) + 8
STUN = Figured Normally
STUN Bonus = (Hit Points/20)

<hr>

As a general rule, I consider D&D to be "Very High Fantasy", and ran my AD&D to HERO System Conversion using superheroic options (no hit locations, knockback on, superheroic END and Pushing rules, etc) and intend to continue doing so with the 3e -> 5e conversion.

[Hierax]

I've come up with an alternate method.

The most significant change has been in how I calculate BODY -- for xD&D I'm now basing it on Hit Dice instead of Hit Points:

I use *Hit Dice* instead of *Hit Points* to reflect the get-what-you-pay-for approach of the HERO system instead of carrying over xD&D's roll-the-dice-and-see-what-you-get. Essentially HP are derived from HD so I thought why not just convert it at the root instead of the branch?

To summarize, essentially*, the new conversion for BODY is 10+ HD (for d10s but modified by the type of Hit Dice if different):

FT: d10=100% ~ +1/1 BODY/LEVEL, +2/1 STUN/LEVEL* [100% = 100%].

CL: d8= 80% ~ +3/4 BODY/LEVEL, +3/2 STUN/LEVEL* [80% -> 75%].

TH: d6= 60% ~ +1/2 BODY/LEVEL, +1/1 STUN/LEVEL* [60% -> 50%].

MU: d4= 40% ~ +1/4 BODY/LEVEL, +1/2 STUN/LEVEL* [40% -> 25%].

N.B. For character classes, STUN increases largely at the same rate as BODY but since STUN is Figured from BODY it increases twice as fast (which makes sense as STUN costs 1/2 as much as BODY); if you don't include the figured, then the STUN Bonus per level is the same as the BODY Bonus.

* But not exactly, e.g., Classes with a d8 for HP use 9 BODY as the Base Point as (when you run the numbers out) it gives a more accurate conversion overall.

This gives a 20th level Fighter 30 BODY which is the ACM ( http://www.hierax.com/hero/house/acm.txt ) for humans IMCs, and 20 BODY for 10th Level (~ Name Level ~ NCM) and it scales the others classes down from there.

The reason for the percentage change is that HERO is based on a 1/1, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 scale and xD&D is based on the types of dice available -- I adjusted the scale to fit the specific system harmonics and to emphasize a greater range between the combat and non-combat oriented characters and creatures. Not to mention the fact that the conversion is even closer if you consider the old basic D&D days when Fighters had d8, clerics d6 (6/8=75%), and theives d4 (4/8=50%)!

Monsters HD but as most appropriate class, just because most monsters were given d8 HD doesn't mean that is how they should be converted (IMO). E.G. tough combat-oriented count as Fighter weaker spell-oriented count as Magic-User, in between for others. Keep in mind old D&D Fighters had the same d8 for HP as did the monsters, d10 for fighers came with AD&D but monsters stayed at d8.

E.G., Ogre is a 4+1 Hit Dice Creature which is very fighter or Barbarian like, so it gets 14 BODY (10+4) as a base before growth (16 with 4th ed. Growth). (the +x of the HD of a monster I apply as an extra bonus to the STUN)

The rationale behind this change from the generally accepted HP -> BODY is:

HERO is a pay-for-what-you-get system and xD&D is a roll-and-see-what-you-get system, so since HP are based on HD it makes more sense to base BODY on HD since HD are what the class is essentially and intentionally 'paying' for, if you follow what I mean.

As a bonus, by linking HD to BODY we also get to use the effect of xD&D level/HD which is significant for what some types of magic affect and can simulate this with a Transform in HERO -- the greater the Transform, the more BODY can be affected which simulates the more magic the more HD or levels that can be affected.

Oh yeah, for a lot of the 0-level or less than 1 HD creatures I use BODY = HP to make the range of BODY and the contrast between tough and weak greater for dramatic effect and for speeding combat vs. lowly minions.

I've found that HD -> BODY works better for my purposes than HP->BODY, YMMV, but I wanted to present an alternative for discussion, particularly considering how big of a shift the 3e HP are while the 3e HD aren't that much different.

[Killer Shrike]

Hey Jason...Hows the weather in Canada? ;)

Thats an interesting take; Ive played around with something similar before.

What I looked at was:
Base 8 Body

{d20 = 3 Body per 2 levels}
*************************************
d12 = 1 Body per level
d10 = 2 Body per 3 levels
d8 = 1 Body per 2 levels
d6 = 1 Body per 3 levels
d4 = 1 Body per 4 levels

Thus, a 20th level Barbarian will have 28 Body, a 20th level Fighter would have 20 Body, a 20th level Cleric would have 18 Body, a 20th level Rogue would have 14 Body, and a 20th level Wizard would have 13 Body.

Another thing that puts me off about this approach is that it doesnt take a characters CON bonus into account, and it is highly uniform, promoting an element of sameness for a characters of the same HD at the same level.

Its also difficult to calculate for Multiclass characters.

It does have much to recommend it however; it does as you point out tie the 'bought' Body stat to a class & level feature. Its consistent. Its semi-formulaic vice purely chart based. Its directly scaled.

BTW, you may have mentioned and I just missed it, but how do you suggest calcing d12's?

[Hierax]

Hey, Ed!

Was about 23 degrees here yesterday, what's that about 80ish in Yank tempurature? ;)

CON

xD&D only has HP, HERO splits the concept into BODY and STUN. The CON bonus to HP is simulated in HERO by in the STUN figuring.


d10 = 10 BODY +1/Level Baseline

I used ever-present "0-level fighter" in AD&D as a baseline and I compared that to the "Normal" in HERO which had 10 BODY (Fighter d10 = 10 BODY +1/level x0 levels).

Then I scaled the leveled class characters up from there until the maximum level reached the Absolute Characteristic Maximum of 30 so that BODY would match the other primary characteristics.

Another concern was granularity of class/levels, i.e., I wanted to make sure (as much as possible) that each level when converted counted for something; a 2nd level Fighter has more HP than a 1st level Fighter and if BODY is converted HP, then a 2nd level Fighter should have more BODY as well.


Uniformity

I don't think that Uniformity is a problem.

In part because of the granularity every-level-counts aspect mentioned above.

Also, more generally, there has to be some give and take somewhere because the scales of xD&D and HERO are so different; Converting xD&D HP into HERO BODY points is naturally going to give you more uniformity because you have to collapse large numbers into small numbers. And this will happen wether you convert using HD or HP.

I can see if you stick strictly to the conversion and don't buy the amount up or down afterwards it might be perceived as a problem. The thing is in HERO you get a low value (or a high one) because you want it to, not because the dice randomly gave it to you.

And in some cases you won't want to buy it up or down, because the uniformity is what you'll want to ensure that the characteristics of the characters converted represent the abilities of the originals relative to each other. Back to each level counting.


D12

d12s are really only used for Barbarians which are originally conceived of as a sub-class of the Fighter so instead I'm giving Barbarians 25% Damage Reduction in addition to d10 equivalent HD. Depending how you look at it, it gives either a 25% or 33% increase above that of fighters. Considering that Barbarians won't have the rPD protection that Fighters with heavy armor do, the extra bit isn't really a problem because it compensates for the different way HERO handles damage compared to D&D.

Basically, either I had to reduce the amount that d10 gave so that d12s would be the peg point for the ACM of 30 (but this would lose the every-level-counts aspect for the most common class - fighters) or I had to give barbaric fighters some other ability to represent how tough they were at soaking up damage. I went with the later largely because barbarians are rarer and Fighters are the baseline common denominator class.

Multi-Classing

Multi-Classing is easy. It's more like 3e than 2e, if you will. You just add the bonuses.


Overall

Overall, I prefer this approach because it is sticks to the get-what-you-pay-for approach of HERO, and it gives something for each level (as much as is possible), and it provides a formula (but can be a table for those who prefer).

I tried with the HP conversion method which looked really good at first, but as I got more and more into it and ran test conversions on characters from the modules of yore and the generic folks from the encounter tables, it became clear that there had to be a better way to convert xD&D HP to HERO BODY that was consistant across both AD&D and 3e with a single conversion system and Hit Dice was the Rosetta Stone that I was looking for. If it hadn't been for 3e scewing the old HP conversion up I likely would have stuck with the HP conversion.

Anyway, I've gotta get to work, but hopefully this clears up a few things...

[Killer Shrike]

Thats cool. 1 side point; in 5th Edition a normal person has 8's in thier Primarys rather than 10's.

Also, is the Damage Reduction for Barbs resistant?

As another side note, I did a loose conversion of Barbs already on a thread from a while back:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3134
(scroll down a bit on the 1st page)

I handle the Barbs "Damage Reduction" class ability as Damage Resistance.

[Hierax]

Yeah, in HERO an "Average Normal" has 8's, I was referring to a "Noteworthy Normal" with 10's. The Avg/8 guy is more of the non-combatant sort while the Note/10 guy is the militia/guard.

In fact, the vast majority of the normal folk from xD&D have HP lower than 8, as per the old DMG:

Sedentary Females: 1-3
Sedentary Males: 1-4
Active Females: 1-4
Active Males: 2-5
Labouring Females: 2-5
Labouring Males: 2-7

FWIW, I'm finding that converting the 0-level non-combatant folk on more of a 1 HP = 1 BODY basis gives the adventurer class people a significant advantage over the townsfolk without having to inflate the character's stats; it's very much in the spirit of "mowing down mooks/minions" it makes a lot of these 0-leveled non-combatants into "one-hit wonders" (and by using real numbers it gets around the hand-waving method in Ninja Hero's "Army of One" but gives the same desired result). FWIW, I'm not going to bother convert the leveled commoners who have lotsa HP and BAB from 3e as I think the whole idea is ridiculous and old AD&D (and Hackmaster) have it better than 3e with making a distinction that lets the leveled PCs be special (but that's an aside).

Damage Reduction for Barbarians, IMC, indeed is Resistant as most damage that Barbarians face is of the Killing variety.

Also, I agree with your conversion of what D&D 3e calls "Damage Reduction" as being "Damage Resistance" in HERO and am using that for Barbarians IMC as well.

[zarglif69]

man, if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D. why use the Hero system to do it? you're eliminating the flexibility of the Hero system, one of its greatest advantages. I mean, in the D&D system, you can't invent your own spells, because they don't have Powers in it, only spells. You can do that in the Hero system!!! D&D SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! HERO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hierax]

Zarglif, I think you misunderstand us.


man, if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D. why use the Hero system to do it?

By this logic, one could say: if you want comic book super heroes why use the HERO system, just read the comics; If you like Wuxia films why use the HERO system, just watch the movies; If you like Lord of the Rings why use the HERO system, don't dare convert it, just read the books.

The fact that we want to convert FROM D&D should tell you that we think that HERO does things better.

I'm not out to play D&D with HERO, I'm out to play the World of Greyhawk Setting using the HERO System Rules. To do this I have to convert the source material (which just happens to be from the xD&D game) to the HERO System as I would if I were adapting any other setting.

If I was talking about using the HERO System to run a Hyborian or a Middle Earth game here then would you be telling me that I shouldn't bother looking at the source material and how it could best be represented using the HERO System?

Just because the source material comes from D&D isn't a reason to malign a conversion.

If you don't like the source material then you won't like a conversion of it.

But if you are saying that you don't like any conversions of anything, then you're going to have a lotta problems with a lot of the HERO fans as well since most of them are trying to convert stuff on one level or another be it from comics, movies, novels, or whathaveyou.



you're eliminating the flexibility of the Hero system, one of its greatest advantages.

Wrong. The reason to convert is to add the flexibility not to eliminate it. D&D is a good game, IMO, HERO is a better game (largely because it is more flexible), so why not take the good parts of D&D and add them to the good parts of HERO to get a better game. Isn't that a good reason to convert?

The Conversion helps bring people from D&D and carry them from what they already know into showing them what else they can do with HERO that they couldn't do with D&D. Conversion is a starting point, not an ending point. It is not about stifling creativity and flexibility, but rather giving a starting point to enable it to spring from.


I mean, in the D&D system, you can't invent your own spells, because they don't have Powers in it, only spells. You can do that in the Hero system!!!

Now, that's just not true either. I've created plenty of spells in xD&D -- it's pretty easy. The advantage of HERO is that it gives you a METASYSTEM to create them rather than arbitrarily making it up. HERO is designed in a way that encourages you to make custom spells and gives you tools to help you balance them. I like that a lot, very useful for modifying and customizing old D&D spells to expand the flexibility of the game.


D&D SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! HERO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, that's not a productive line of conversation. I like D&D, I just happen to like HERO a lot more. We can talk about what aspects are worth converting and how to best do it, or which ones aren't worth converting. But SUX isn't a topic of discussion.

Anyway, I should be working on more conversion stuff instead of wasting time trying to explain it to those who are against it.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zarglif69
man, if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D. why use the Hero system to do it? you're eliminating the flexibility of the Hero system, one of its greatest advantages. I mean, in the D&D system, you can't invent your own spells, because they don't have Powers in it, only spells. You can do that in the Hero system!!! D&D SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! HERO RULES!!!!!!!!!!! This looks like troll spoor, but Ill respond in case it isnt.

Who said we wanted to PLAY D&D? Obviously if we are converting FROM D&D to the HERO System it would indicate that WE DONT WANT TO PLAY D&D.

In what way are we eliminating the flexibility of the HERO System? Thats the point of converting into the HERO System -- to take advantage of its superior flexibility and its more exacting combat mechanix.

Thanx for pointing out how D&D is designed and what I can do in the HERO System. Having played all versions of D&D/AD&D extensively over the last 18 years and having used the HERO System to play almost any particular genre you can name for 13 years I must have missed out on the basic design concepts of both systems. :rolleyes:

D&D doesnt "SUCK". Its good for what its intended for. Its just not for me.

HEROs does rule however, Ill be the first to agree. Thats why Ive pushed it as my main game system for 13 years, bringing dozens of players into contact with it over the years. Its why I did my original AD&D to HERO System Conversion years ago, which was used by me for 4 years of long running campaigns and by other GMs for thier own campaigns.

Thanx for your input; your objections to converting material into the HERO System have been duly noted. Of course, thats one of the primary strengths and benefits of the system, but if you dont think its a worthwhile concept its obviously not something you should waste time posting objections to. :rolleyes:

[zarglif69]

D&D still sucks, even if you use Hero to play it.

[AnotherSkip]

Actually Zarglif, if you wrote you commentary along the lines of
IMNSHO D&D SUXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Id have to agree with you.

D&D _can_ suc.

and suck BIIIIIIG.

but some of the most menmorable games and characters I have ever had have been in some XD&D games. Including Basic, Expert, Advanced, and 2nd.


There is one exception, a single HERO campaign with a few characters I played in.

The system is largely irrelevant the real point is how everyone treats everyone in the game. That is what makes a game a good game.

Actually I have been hankering for a real solid game of Advanced, maybe even bringing them up from Basic and then converting......

ahhh the 80's where big hair wasn't a Faux Pax

[zarglif69]

ok... LMNSHO D&D SUXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
that better?

[AnotherSkip]

Seee now ya got it

It's an opinion so therefor you are not expressiung it as a fact therefor it is pretty much considered vedddy veddy difficult to disprove or change.

[SuperBlue]

Originally posted by zarglif69
man, if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D. why use the Hero system to do it? you're eliminating the flexibility of the Hero system, one of its greatest advantages. I mean, in the D&D system, you can't invent your own spells, because they don't have Powers in it, only spells. You can do that in the Hero system!!! D&D SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! HERO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, first of all, you're insulting the Original RPG Game.

Second, for those of us who want to use DnD Spells, Magic Items, and Monsters in our Fantasy Campaigns, it's nice to have a big document of stuff already converted.

Example 1:
I'm running a Fantasy Campaign, and one of my players wants to play a Ranger from DnD 3e. Instead of going through the Player's Handbook (only DnD Core book I don't own) and manually Convert the Ranger, I can just look at someone else's conversion and let my player take it from there.

Example 2:
I'm running a Super Hero game, and one of my characters wants to play a Mystic with a VPP for his magic, but wants DnD style Spells. I just make sure both of us have a copy of those spells (and whatever other spells he wants) so we don't have to waste time converting the DnD spells to hero.

Example 3
There's a really cool monster in the DnD Monster Manual that's not in the HERO Bestiary. I want that monster in my campaign, so I convert it.

While I do agree that HERO is a better system, I see things like this: D20 System is a pain in the @$$ for anything NOT DnD, but the subject material is still good; If I see anything in the DnD books, I'll 'borrow' those concepts/ideas/items/characters/whatever and incorperate them into my campaign.

So don't dis DnD Content just cuz the system is broken, It's still good stuff

[zarglif69]

I still say D&D sucks. Deal with it.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zarglif69
I still say D&D sucks. Deal with it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Plonk

[Bazza]

Originally posted by zarglif69
D&D still sucks, even if you use Hero to play it. Without D&D, there would be no RPG industry, thus no HERO Games thus no hero system. Think about it.

[Worldmaker]

So what do you do for priest spells.

[tkdguy]

Here's a suggestion I posted on the WOTC boards and got flamed for it. I'll change it to HERO terms. Guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

My basic premise is that magic is a wild and powerful force. Those who would attempt to harness it pay a heavy price. In HERO terms, the wizard pays extra END or takes STUN whenever casting a spell. In addition, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells are so draining that miscasting the spell (failed magic roll) incurs a side effect (7th level = minor, 8th level = major, 9th level = extreme). One possible effect would be a permanent 3 point reduction in a random Characteristic score, according to cost. The randomness shows the chaotic nature of magic. Another could be immunity to a certain type of magic, but the wizard permanently loses the ability to cast that form of magic.

No, I don't hate spellcasters. I'm just making a suggestion as how to make sorcery appear like the dangerous force it's supposed to be.

Fighter types need not feel left out. I'm thinking of a particularly nasty way to mess them up when they roll 18 on their attacks.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
So what do you do for priest spells.

Same way, but with different limits on thier control costs.

The only catch is the Sphere Spells, because they sometimes get access to higher level spells faster (which would require a bigger VPP than appropriate at that level), but thats fixed in most cases by making a version of the spell on fewer points.

ALternately, Ive considered handling it using a Talent based system similar to a system of magic in the FH playtest document (just for the sphere spells), but I cant put anything up about it yet because of the Playtest NDA until FH is out on the market.....

There are also several cool new Talents that will greatly assist converting Clerics other abilities like Turn Undead.


Ill probably continue to do Psionicists with Multipowers as that worked out very well in the past. However, the 3e Psionics were altered and are basically just really weak spells, and in fact Psionic were depicted as just a weak form of magic by another name, which is something I was really (REALLY) ticked about. Im not sure whether Ill opt to retain my old coversion of Psionics from 2e as is in favor of its more distinct feel, or go for the completist approach and convert the 3e version anew.

Im also tooling up an alternate Nature Magic system, and I have some rough notes for an alternate Bardic Magic system which both behave differently from the standard "Arcane" and "Divine" VPPs, but havent decided if Im going to graft them into a Greyhawk capaign with the D&D->HERO conversion, or use them in a different setting built from scratch.....

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
ALternately, Ive considered handling it using a Talent based system similar to a system of magic in the FH playtest document (just for the sphere spells), but I cant put anything up about it yet because of the Playtest NDA until FH is out on the market.....

I think I must have missed it... where in the playtest document are these located?



I have some rough notes for an alternate Bardic Magic system which both behave differently from the standard "Arcane" and "Divine" VPPs, but havent decided if Im going to graft them into a Greyhawk capaign with the D&D-HERO conversion, or use them in a different setting built from scratch.....

I'm building them from scratch, with a separate magical "type"... spellsongs aren't really arcane magic, and they're not really divine magic... and I'm basing them on Multipowers.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
I think I must have missed it... where in the playtest document are these located? Under the Magic section there is discussion of how to do Magic systems using Talents that basically allow mini-VPP's without actually buying VPP's, and/or skill systems where in you buy a skill that allows you to use a specific spell, and several variations in between.

Under Talents there is a Turn Undead Talent and some other nifty things that would be useful to Clerics for the purposes of covering some of thier Sphere special abilities.





Originally posted by Worldmaker
I'm building them from scratch, with a separate magical "type"... spellsongs aren't really arcane magic, and they're not really divine magic... and I'm basing them on Multipowers. Yeah, thats kind of where I was going with it. The tricky part will be balancing variant magic systems against the VPP system of Arcanists and Divine casters.

[tgaptte]

Hey KS,

This is FANTASTIC material! Are you planning to make it available in PDF format? Sorry if it already is available, I must have missed the link.

Thanks.

Tim

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by tgaptte
Hey KS,

This is FANTASTIC material! Are you planning to make it available in PDF format? Sorry if it already is available, I must have missed the link.

Thanks.

Tim Sorry; I managed to miss your post.

Thanx for the compliment! Always good to be appreciated.

Having said that, your flattery will get you nowhere. No PDFs for you. 2 years.


Actually I dont like PDFs. Ill collate the final results into cleanly formatted HTML at some point. My URL lapsed after several years recently and got snatched up by some porno peddler (and I cant imagine why; it was a really abstruse URL). So, at somepoint Ill be buying a new URL and getting a new host, and Ill build my website anew at that time.

In the meantime Hierax from these boards is kindly hosting some of my old conversion material. Im supposed to be editing the old pages for placement on his site, but its gotten lost in the deluge of other things I need to do of late :(

Scroll up a few posts and follow a link to his homepage if you are interested in what has been ported over to date from the old AD&D 2e -> HERO 4th Conversion :)

[slaughterj]

Good stuff, and I agree with the poster above about wanting to get it when it's complete and formatted :)

So I gather this is a 3e FH / 5e Hero conversion of 3e D&D, yes? Any plans for 3.5 D&D? Probably won't be too many spell changes, e.g., Haste, but some of those are probably already "friggin close" enough ;)

[Hierax]

In the meantime Hierax from these boards is kindly hosting some of my old conversion material. Im supposed to be editing the old pages for placement on his site, but its gotten lost in the deluge of other things I need to do of late
Scroll up a few posts and follow a link to his homepage if you are interested in what has been ported over to date from the old AD&D 2e -> HERO 4th Conversion
Actually, Ed, I hadn't put a link up on my main page as I was waiting for your OK, but I just put one up now and here's the direct link to the page with links to all of the files you've sent me so far:

http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/shrike/ (http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/shrike/)

I'll add links to the other updated files as you send them to me...

[Hierax]

Shrike,

Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done?

Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them?

Lemme know...

Jason

[Worldmaker]

Hey, Shrike... for priests, what limitations are you going to put on the pools? I mean, the "Divine Magic Only" and Focus: Holy Symbol limits are obvious... but should there be others? I'm hesitant to add "Only When it Suits Deity's Purposes".

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hierax
Shrike,

Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done?

Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them?

Lemme know...

Jason ERm, you meant the edited 4th Ed ones? So far the 3 that I sent were just the old pages edited to remove most of the graphix (to take up less space & bandwidth), add in some things that we did in game but I never got around to adding into the document, and update the look abit.

Most of the rest of it should be fine, but I wanted to edit the wizards, psionicist, and priests sections a bit because as you might imagine thats were most of the in-game tweaking took place.

Ill get around to it soon :) -- I should have done some of that this past weekend but I got distracted and did the Enforcers Inc bit instead. :)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
Hey, Shrike... for priests, what limitations are you going to put on the pools? I mean, the "Divine Magic Only" and Focus: Holy Symbol limits are obvious... but should there be others? I'm hesitant to add "Only When it Suits Deity's Purposes". Ill certainly put some kind of "Must abide by tenants of Religion" restriction in there; I need to get the Priests spell casting cheaper than the wizards bcs priests have to buy many other things as well. IMO Priests are the most advantaged class in D&D 3e, and its going to be a challenge to shoehorn them into the same points as every other class....

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Ill certainly put some kind of "Must abide by tenants of Religion" restriction in there; I need to get the Priests spell casting cheaper than the wizards bcs priests have to buy many other things as well. IMO Priests are the most advantaged class in D&D 3e, and its going to be a challenge to shoehorn them into the same points as every other class....

My only problem is that "Must Abide By Tenants of Religion or Lose Spellcasting" feels more like a Physical Limitation than any thing else. I think I'm going to be making "Incantations" mandatory on all Divine Magic spells (as it wasn't on Arcane Magic) in that a prayer is necessary to cast the spell.

As for the other powers, since the priests in my gameworld are more heavily individualized (more like they were under 2nd Edition D&D), I've been giving serious thought to creating a package deal for each individual priesthood., thus cutting some of the cost out right there.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
My only problem is that "Must Abide By Tenants of Religion or Lose Spellcasting" feels more like a Physical Limitation than any thing else. I think I'm going to be making "Incantations" mandatory on all Divine Magic spells (as it wasn't on Arcane Magic) in that a prayer is necessary to cast the spell.

I was thinking more along the lines of treating it as a "when usable" limitation on the Control Cost bcs it limits their use of the framework.

Taking it as a PhysLim on the character doesnt really address this IMO and doesnt really do anything about the actual cost of the abilities.

As far as requiring Incantations, I would avoid this bcs prayer can be silent. I intend to go the same route as with the wizards CC lims and use a variable lim instead.

This is premature, but heres a rough prototype for a Priest CC set up:

Priest Control Cost:
Only Divine Magic (-1/2)
May Only Change Granted Abilities {Spells} with Meditation (-1/2)
All Granted Abilities Must Have 1 Charge (-1/4)
Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4)
Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a MINIMUM)
Cost per Granted Ability Level (15 Pool) = 17 Real total

That only shaves off 1 point from the Wizard cost per Spell Level, but unfortunately unless I can come up with another -4 in limitations to shave 1 more point off (:rolleyes: not going to happen in other words), thats as cheap as its going to get.


Originally posted by Worldmaker
As for the other powers, since the priests in my gameworld are more heavily individualized (more like they were under 2nd Edition D&D), I've been giving serious thought to creating a package deal for each individual priesthood., thus cutting some of the cost out right there.
We seem to think alike. I did a couple dozen Package Deals for each Priesthood and "Paladin" (Dedicated Warriors as I called them) complete with progression paths back in the day and will update them forward into FRED terms at some point as I work my way thru the conversion. However, now that there is no package bonus, it doesnt really make the character cheaper. The new package deals are purely organizational; they just group things into a module to be snapped onto a character.

My conversion will treat each class and prestige class as a Package Deal, and the progression model I intend to use ups the "Max Disadvantages" limit at various "character levels" to basically allow what youre talking about, offsetting character points with extra disadvantages.

To help pay for all the swag priests get in 3e, Im niminally planning to set up a progressive series of package deals for each faith, with increasing abilities counterbalanced by increased responsibilities and whatnot. Thus as a priest progresses thru the ranks of his church or is singled out for greater things by his/her diety (ie, the player opts to spend points progressing the priest aspect of the character rather than branching out into combat ability or secular skills), they may take another package deal bundling some appropriate abilities and disadvantage specific to their particular religion.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hierax
Shrike,

Did you want me to put up the old AD&D to 4th ed. files up until you get the 3e/d20 to 5th ed. versions done?

Or should I just keep uploading the 5th ed. updated files as you send them?

Lemme know...

Jason By the way, in your credits & links page you have a link to the old site; after I let the URL lapse apparantly some porno peddler bought it for some reason that I cant figure out :mad:. You may want to kill that link.....

[Hierax]

Done! Shrike Smut link eliminated.

Thanks for letting me know. A lot of old pages have either moved or are defunct. Now, I've really gotta update the links page!

Does anybody got an up-to-date list of Fantasy Hero links?

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Priest Control Cost:
Only Divine Magic (-1/2)
May Only Change Granted Abilities {Spells} with Meditation (-1/2)
All Granted Abilities Must Have 1 Charge (-1/4)
Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4)
Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a MINIMUM)
Cost per Granted Ability Level (15 Pool) = 17 Real total

That's not bad. A rough of what I was going to use would be:

Priest Control Cost:
Only Divine Magic (-1/2)
8 Charges Per Day On the POOL, not the SPELLS (-1/2)
Must Pray and Meditate for One Hour to Gain the Day’s Charges (-1/2)
Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a minimum)
Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4)
Real Cost per 15 points in the Pool: 17 Points

What do you think?



We seem to think alike. I did a couple dozen Package Deals for each Priesthood and "Paladin" (Dedicated Warriors as I called them) complete with progression paths back in the day and will update them forward into FRED terms at some point as I work my way thru the conversion. However, now that there is no package bonus, it doesnt really make the character cheaper. The new package deals are purely organizational; they just group things into a module to be snapped onto a character.

You can always use the package bonus anyway. :D Its what I do.

I'd love to see some of your package ideas.

[AnotherSkip]

And my own favorite addendum to the package deal suggestion is to create your own skill Enhancer to replace the "package Deal".

just as scholar can reduce the cost of KS's, so Would Skill enhancer Druid reduce the cost of Druidic skills.

[MadKestrel]

Spellcasting refers to the use of Power Constructs via a Magic Variable Power Pool (VPP). Various types of Spellcasters have VPPs with differing modifiers applied to the Control Cost to represent that type of Spellcasters' style of Magic.

Wow! You done a phenomenal and impressive amount of work here. Excellent job!

I found a write-up some years back using a previous version of FH that used the VPP -- to simulate a previous version of AD&D, IIRC. I don't have it backed up anywhere that I can find, but I'd printed it out and I still have that. I'd hoped that a similar system would be included in the new version of FH, but I'm still very happy to find it here.

I've got your version printing currently and will be reading it in detail today. AND, I'll happily use many of the spells you've so graciously converted.

Thanks again for all of your hard work.

MadKestrel

[Worldmaker]

Hey, Shrike...

I've started converting some of the more obscure (read "Not in the PHB") spells found in the Wizards Spell Compendiums and Priest's Spell Compendiums. I'll post them as I go, if you want.

I paid near to $200 for those books, right before they (WotC) made their first 3rd Edition announcements. I'll be damned if I'm not going to get some use out of them.

[Dr.Unpossible]

Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project Killershrike. I really appreciate it. Looking foward to printing out and making use of your work.

P.S. How are you Hierax. This is Thuffer Mudfoot from the Greytalk list. I've been missing in action from Greyhawk since I moved to Edmonton this year. How is the Island life? I am experiencing WestCoastWithdrawl!

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
That's not bad. A rough of what I was going to use would be:

Priest Control Cost:
Only Divine Magic (-1/2)
8 Charges Per Day On the POOL, not the SPELLS (-1/2)
Must Pray and Meditate for One Hour to Gain the Day’s Charges (-1/2)
Variable Limitation (-1/2; each spell must take -1 of limitations from Focus (Holy Symbol), Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Gesture, or Limited Range in any combination at a minimum)
Only usable while in good standing with Faith (-1/4)
Real Cost per 15 points in the Pool: 17 Points

What do you think?

Kind of curious about the 8 charges on the Pool. Do you mean they can only cast 8 spells per day?



You can always use the package bonus anyway. :D Its what I do.

I'd love to see some of your package ideas.

I dunno. I kind of agree with thier removal. I used them when they were part of the system but they were fairly arbitrary. I prefer the idea of custom Skill Enhancers myself, but unfortunately its a little harder to apply using Hero Designer.

[Killer Shrike]

Here is a zip file containing a bunch of old 4th Edition package deals. They contain some errors, and some were corrected during play but I never got around to editing the files :rolleyes:

They would be completely redone for the 5th edition conversion Im working on now. For starters, under my old system Priests paid for each "Sphere" of access by Major or Minor. That entire concept has been removed from D&D 3e as such, so it wont have any relevance in the 3e->FRED conversion. Also, I used to approximate Saving Throws via Mental & Power Def on Activation rolls. With the the altered saves of D&D 3e that goes out the window too. And of course the spellcasting process also being changed in this conversion.

So in short, they have no relevance to the current conversion, but the special diety specific "kewl abilities" will likely see some incarnation as I move forward on this......

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by MadKestrel
Spellcasting refers to the use of Power Constructs via a Magic Variable Power Pool (VPP). Various types of Spellcasters have VPPs with differing modifiers applied to the Control Cost to represent that type of Spellcasters' style of Magic.

Wow! You done a phenomenal and impressive amount of work here. Excellent job!

I found a write-up some years back using a previous version of FH that used the VPP -- to simulate a previous version of AD&D, IIRC. I don't have it backed up anywhere that I can find, but I'd printed it out and I still have that. I'd hoped that a similar system would be included in the new version of FH, but I'm still very happy to find it here.

I've got your version printing currently and will be reading it in detail today. AND, I'll happily use many of the spells you've so graciously converted.

Thanks again for all of your hard work.

MadKestrel Thanx for the kind words!

That old conversion you refer to may well have been my old AD&D 2e -> HERO 4th conversion. However, there were a number of conversions by different people, so it also may not have been :)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Worldmaker
Hey, Shrike...

I've started converting some of the more obscure (read "Not in the PHB") spells found in the Wizards Spell Compendiums and Priest's Spell Compendiums. I'll post them as I go, if you want.

I paid near to $200 for those books, right before they (WotC) made their first 3rd Edition announcements. I'll be damned if I'm not going to get some use out of them. Using the rules I laid out in the first post? Kewl. Let em rip. More content is always for the better.

As it happens, I also have all 4 Wizard Spell Compendiums and Encyclopedia Magica. I didnt get the Priest Compendiums bcs I never liked adding Priest spells to the game. (Wow! Suddenly every priest with a particular sphere suddenly realizes they've got this whole new ability to call upon :rolleyes: ). But then Ive never liked how Divine magic has been handled as "spell casting" with "spells" rather than allowing them to simply call upon the will of thier diety to do appropriate things.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Dr.Unpossible
Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project Killershrike. I really appreciate it. Looking foward to printing out and making use of your work.
Kewl. Any friend of Jason's/Hierax is a friend of mine ;)

Everyone should feel free to use and abuse any of this stuff, and also feel free to contribute content.

[Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Kind of curious about the 8 charges on the Pool. Do you mean they can only cast 8 spells per day?


Its an expandable limit. As the character gets more powerful (read "gains experience") he can buy larger and larger numbers of charges until I finally say "Go ahead and remove the limit altogether".

[Killer Shrike]

Got the Magic Systems pretty much wrapped up:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Magic.htm

[Keneton]

Killer shrike, youve done agreat job here. That is a lot of work and I am proudly stunned!
:D

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Keneton
Killer shrike, youve done agreat job here. That is a lot of work and I am proudly stunned!
:D Thanx!. Its a work in progress of course, but I hope to have the entire thing in a usable state before the month is out. Im making updates just about everyday and making good progress :)

[badger3k]

That's a LOT to read - I like most of what I've seen so far, so let me add my good work! to the rest. I had started some before I bought 3e (picked up all the 2e priests and wizard compediums and magic items too) - I used the minimum caster level to determine the spells effect for conversion, tho.

Had an idea, but I don't think it's cost effective (haven't sat down and worked it out yet) - what about charges on the VPP. It would probably mean having multiple VPPs (1 for 0 level, 1 for 1st, etc), and each would have a number of uses of the pool per day (i.e. wizards would max at 4, sorcerers 6, etc). That would change the whole structure of your system, though.

Any thoughts on the idea? I like using the spells that the hordes of d20/3e companies put out (own many many books myself), and although I really don't like the spell system, I thought of using something similar for FH to ease the transition of my 3e players to it. Once they were used to the system I could change things around of course.

[Killer Shrike]

Im looking at doing something along those lines for a variant Sorceror when I get to the 3e Conversion -- but with Multipowers however.

The big downside is that it isnt cost effective, but Ive come up with a model that is pretty comparable real points wise to doing the same thing using the Default Magic System Ive laid out on my website.

However, b4 I get to 3e and Sorcerors, Im going to finish up the 2e material first. If I dont wrap it up now, Ill likely never come back to it.....

[Killer Shrike]

Got a lot of Arcane Spells posted here; over 200 so far:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp

[Killer Shrike]

Wizardry is done (finally).

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Source=PHB3e

I've still got a backlog of files from Shadowcat to slog thru, but currently there are 1400 or so spells between Wizardry and Elementalism which should be sufficient for most purposes.

Moving on to Bards.....

[Killer Shrike]

As a side note, with that many spells there are bound to be mistakes. Please eMail any errata you find (an email address link is provided on the page) so that I can correct them.

Thanx!

[badger3k]

Finally got a chance to look through them. Quick question - what the heck is Sortilege and where is it in the book - the source says PHB3e, but its new on me, both in 3 and 3.5. Is there some other version or printing out there? I'm lost completely on that, and can't find reference elsewere on the site (although you have so much I might have missed it). Other than that it looks good so far as I can tell with the skimming I did. Thanks to you and everyone whose taken time to do that.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by badger3k
Finally got a chance to look through them. Quick question - what the heck is Sortilege and where is it in the book - the source says PHB3e, but its new on me, both in 3 and 3.5. Is there some other version or printing out there? I'm lost completely on that, and can't find reference elsewere on the site (although you have so much I might have missed it). Other than that it looks good so far as I can tell with the skimming I did. Thanks to you and everyone whose taken time to do that. Oops, all Sortilege spells should show "NEW". Ill get that fixed....

Its a new type of Spellcaster I added under the blanket grouping of Thaumaturgy.

Basically, I'm using Thaumaturgy as a catch-all group for "older" types of magic, from the perspective of Wizards and their fancified psuedo-scientific approach to magic. Its a place for me to put more niche types of magic.

Sortilgists just happen to be the first ones that I did. They are described here: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/sortilegePackages.shtml

Thuamaturgy is described in summary form on the Arcane Magic page, along with Shamanism and Elementalism under Magic Skills.

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/ArcaneMagic.shtml

[badger3k]

OK - thanks for the info.

[tgaptte]

Hey KS,

Thanks for all the hard work, this is great stuff!

TIm

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by tgaptte
Hey KS,

Thanks for all the hard work, this is great stuff!

TIm

np! Just hope people get some use out of it. More Fantasy HERO Games = A Good Thing

[Killer Shrike]

Trying something out here.

<iframe width="100%" height="1000" scrolling="yes" src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Magic.htm"></iframe>
<ilayer width="100%" height="1000" src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Magic.htm"></ilayer>

[Hierax]

Been playing with HERO Designer v2 to make up Racial Templates, took Ed's adaptation of my elves which he calls "Verbityk Elves" to make up a .hdt, a .hdc, and exported it using Shrike's modified Message Board HTML Export Template, let's see how it all works:

<font size=+1><b>Verbityk Elf (Racial Template)</b></font>

Player: Ed "Killer Shrike" Hastings and Jason "Hierax" Verbitsky

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><font size=2><b>Val&#160;&#160;</b></font></td><td><font size=2><b>Char&#160;&#160;&#160;</b></font></td><td><font size=2><b>Cost</b></font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>6&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>STR</b></font></td><td><font size=2>-4</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>15&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>DEX</b></font></td><td><font size=2>15</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>6&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>CON</b></font></td><td><font size=2>-8</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>6&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>BODY</b></font></td><td><font size=2>-8</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>15&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>INT</b></font></td><td><font size=2>5</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>10&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>EGO</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>15&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>PRE</b></font></td><td><font size=2>5</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>20&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>COM</b></font></td><td><font size=2>5</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2></font></td><td><font size=2>&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2></font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>1&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>PD</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>1&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>ED</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>4&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>SPD</b></font></td><td><font size=2>15</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>2&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>REC</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>12&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>END</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>12&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>STUN</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><td><font size=2></font></td><td><font size=2>&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2></font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>10"&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>RUN</b></font></td><td><font size=2>8</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>2"&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>SWIM</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr><tr><td align="right"><font size=2>3 1/2"&#160;&#160;</font></td><td><font size=2><b>LEAP</b></font></td><td><font size=2>0</font></td></tr></table><b>Characteristics Cost:</b> 33

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost&#160;&#160;</b></td><td><b>Power</b></td><td align="right"><b>END</b></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">12&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Elven Senses: </i></b>+4 PER with all Sense Groups&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Elven Eyes: </i></b>Nightvision&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Elven Mind: </i></b>Mental Defense (22 points total) (20 Active Points); Only Works Against Sleep and Charm Effects (-1)&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">17&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Mage Sight: </i></b>Detect A Single Thing 14- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Range, Sense&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Longevity: LS: 1600 Years; Immunity to Sleep: </i></b>Life Support (Longevity: 1600 Years; Sleeping: Character does not sleep)&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6&#160;&#160;</td><td><b><i>Archer's Strength: </i></b>+12 STR (12 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Only to Draw Bows (to offset STR Min) (-1/2)&#160;</td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr></table><b>Powers Cost:</b> 57


<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost&#160;&#160;</b></td><td><b>Skill</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3&#160;&#160;</td><td>+1 with Bows&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20&#160;&#160;</td><td>+3 with Animal Handler (Aquatic Animals, Birds, Bovines, Camels, Canines, Dragons, Elephants, Equines, Felines, Insects & Anthropods, Raptors, Reptiles & Amphibians, Ursines)&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2&#160;&#160;</td><td>Elven Weapons Group: WF: Blades, Bows&#160;</td></tr></table><b>Skills Cost: </b>25


<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Cost&#160;&#160;</b></td><td><b>Talent</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">24&#160;&#160;</td><td>Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, out of combat, Function as a Sense, Intuitional) 14-&#160;</td></tr></table><b>Talents Cost:</b> 24


<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right"><b>Val&#160;&#160;</b></td><td><b>Disadvantages</b></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20&#160;&#160;</td><td>Normal Characteristic Maxima&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5&#160;&#160;</td><td>Distinctive Features - Elf: (Concealable with Magic), Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses, Not Distinctive In Some Cultures&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15&#160;&#160;</td><td>Susceptibility - Iron and Steel: , 1d6 damage per Minute (Very Common)&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15&#160;&#160;</td><td>Vulnerability - Iron and Steel: 1 1/2 x STUN (Very Common)&#160;</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15&#160;&#160;</td><td>Vulnerability - Iron and Steel: 1 1/2 x BODY (Very Common)&#160;</td></tr></table>
<b>Disadvantage Points:</b> 70
<br>
<b>Base Points:</b> 150
<b>Experience Required:</b> 0
<b>Total Experience Available:</b> 0
<b>Experience Unspent:</b> 0
<b>Total Character Cost:</b> 139
<br>
<table width="100%" valign="top"><tr valign="top"><td colspan=2><b>Background:&nbsp;</b>Verbityk Elves are very rare, appearing only in small pockets in the deep forests of the World of Greyhawk. Thought to be related to the Grugach and perhaps the Snow Elves, Verbityk Elves are more closely connected with their Faerie heritage than most of their cousin Races. They have a dire sensitivity to ferrous metal, which encourages them to avoid proximity to the races of Dwarves and Men, who favor Iron based equipment. Smaller than most other Races of Elves, Verbityk Elves are also superbly graceful and exquisitely beautiful as a rule. They are equally as likely to favor archery or Arcane Magic, with many of their number mastering both.<br><br>NOTE: This Package represents a "powered up", Celtic flavored Elf Race with a Vulnerability to Iron & Steel, but otherwise solidly superior to most other Race Packages.<br><br>GM's Permission is required to play a Verbityk Elf as they may not exist in the Campaign Setting.</td></tr></table>

[Hierax]

Ed, FWIW, there's a slight glitch with the Export Template, it changes the 6 STR into 18 STR -- it must not be excluding the +12 STR for the Elven "Archer's Strength", I had to manually change it for the message boards.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hierax
Ed, FWIW, there's a slight glitch with the Export Template, it changes the 6 STR into 18 STR -- it must not be excluding the +12 STR for the Elven "Archer's Strength", I had to manually change it for the message boards.

When you add STR (or any Characteristic) as a Power, there should be a drop down box at the top of the dialog to the effect of "Add to Primary", "Add to Secondary", and "Do not Add to Totals". You generally want either Add to Secondary or Do Not Add, but it defaults to Add to Primary.

If that doesnt fix it, its the Export Template. The one you are using is older (theres a newer one I did that outputs the sheet pretty much identically to the normal HTML based character sheet, w/ CSS styling, and black print on white bg), and I may have done it b4 the Export tag was available to parse up the characteristics more finely. I know later Export Templates I did have the more correct broken out characteristics.

[Hierax]

Thanks, Ed, that fixed it!

[Killer Shrike]

Doing the same one as Heirax for comparison purposes.

<a name=""></a><table style="width: 165mm; border: solid black 1px;"><tr><td bgcolor="white"><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" colspan=5 valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <b>Combat Information Page</b><br> <b>Character Name: </b><br> Alternate Identities: Verbityk Elf<br> Player Name: <br> </span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" width="34%" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <img src="http://www.herogames.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=101723"> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%> <table> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%> <table border=0 cellspacing=1 > <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="header" width=100%><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> CHARACTERISTICS </span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" height="1" class="header" valign="top" nowrap ><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> CHARACTER IMAGE </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="content" width=100%> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=3 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Val</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Char</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Base</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Points</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Roll</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Notes</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">STR</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6/18</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10- / 13-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">HTH Damage 1d6/3 1/2d6 END [1]</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">DEX</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">OCV 5 DCV 5</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">CON</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-8</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">BODY</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-8</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">INT</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">PER Roll 16-</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">EGO</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">11-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">ECV: 3</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">PRE</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">PRE Attack: 3d6</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">COM</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">13-</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">PD</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1 PD (0 rPD)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">ED</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1 ED (0 rED)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">SPD</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2.5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">REC</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">END</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">STUN</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Running</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">8</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Swimming</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1"/0 1/2""</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Leaping</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1"/3"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>33</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total Characteristics Points</b></span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width="289" valign="top" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" style="border: solid black 2px;" width="100" height="100%" ><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%> <table > <tr> <td bgcolor="white" valign="top" align=left > <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style="width: 58mm"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> EXPERIENCE POINTS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=2 width=100% class="small"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total earned:</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Spent:</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Unspent:</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Base Points:</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">50</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Disad Points:</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">75</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Total Points:</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">145</span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style="width: 58mm"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> MOVEMENT </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=2 width=100% class="small"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Type</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Run (6)</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10" [20" NC]</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Swim (2)</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2" [4" NC]</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">H. Leap (1")</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1"/3 1/2"</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">V. Leap (1")</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0 1/2"/1 1/2"</span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" valign="top" width=100% nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" style="padding: 0px;" colspan="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> APPEARANCE </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Hair Color: </b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width=90%><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> &nbsp;Silver or Gold</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Eye Color: </b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width=90%><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> &nbsp;Violet to Lavender</span></font></td> </tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Height: </b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width=90%><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> &nbsp;6' 0"</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Weight: </b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width=90%><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> &nbsp;100 lbs</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Description: </b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" style="padding-left: 30px" colspan="2"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <div style="white-space: pre;"> Smaller than most other Races of Elves, Verbityk Elves are also superbly graceful and exquisitely beautiful as a rule. They are equally as likely to favor archery or Arcane Magic, with many of their number mastering both. </div> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr></table><br style="page-break-after: always;"><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" valign=top width =55%><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> DEFENSES </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% class="small"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Type</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" width="25%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Amount</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Notes</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Physical Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Current BODY:</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Res. Phys. Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white">&nbsp;</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Energy Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Current END:</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Res. Energy Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white">&nbsp;</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Mental Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">22</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Current STUN:</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width="35%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Power Defense</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white">&nbsp;</span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" valign="top" width="45%" rowspan=8><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> COMBAT INFORMATION </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=2> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>OCV:</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>5</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="right" width=100% nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>DCV:</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>5</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" colspan="4"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">&nbsp; </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" colspan=4><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> Combat Skill Levels: +1 with all Bows </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> COMBAT MANEUVERS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=2 width=100% class="small"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Maneuver</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Phase</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>OCV</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>DCV</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Effect</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Block</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Block, abort</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Brace</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+2 vs. Range Mod.</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Disarm</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Can disarm</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Dodge</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">--</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+3</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Abort, vs. all attacks</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Grab</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Grab two limbs</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Grab By</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-3</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Move and Grab</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Haymaker</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2*</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+4 DC attack damage</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Move By</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">STR/2 + v/5</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Move Through</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-v/5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-3</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">STR + v/3</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Set</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+1</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Ranged Attacks only</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Strike</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">1/2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" nowrap valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">+0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" width=100% valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">STR or weapon</span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100%><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="black"> COMBAT MODIFIERS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=2 width=100% class="small"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Range</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0-4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5-8</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">9-16</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">17-32</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">33-64</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">65-128</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>RMOD</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">0</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-4</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-6</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-8</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" class="small" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">-10</span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr></table><br style="page-break-after: always;"><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" width=100% valign="top"> <table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="black" align="left" class="header" colspan=3 style="padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white"> POWERS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Cost&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" width="100%" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Power</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>END</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">7</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Archers Strength: </i>+12 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (18 Active Points); Only to Offset STR Min of Bows (-1), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">21</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Magesight: </i>Detect Magic 16- (no Sense Group), Discriminatory, Range, Sense</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">12</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Senses: </i>+4 PER with all Sense Groups</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Eyes: </i>Nightvision</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">10</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Mind: </i>MD (22 points total) (20 Active Points); Only vs Sleep/Charm Effects (-1)</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">7</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">LS (Longevity 1600 Years; Sleeping Character does not sleep)</span></font></td><td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"></font></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>62</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2 valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total Powers Cost</b></span></font></td> </tr> </table> <table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 width=100%> <tr> <td bgcolor="black" align="left" colspan=3 style="padding: 0px;" ><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white"> TALENTS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Cost&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2 valign="top" width="100%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Name</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2 valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Animal Friendship</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">25</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2 valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Awareness: </i>Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, out of combat, Function as a Sense, Intuitional) 15-</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>45</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2 valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total Talents Cost</b></span></font></td> </tr> </table> </span></font></td> </tr></table><br style="page-break-after: always;"><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" colspan=2 width=100% valign="top"> <tr> <td bgcolor="black" align="left" colspan=2 style="padding: 0px;" ><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white"> SKILLS </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Cost&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top" width="100%"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Name</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">3</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Archery: </i>+1 with all Bows</span></font></td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">2</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Elven Weapons Group: </i>WF: Blades, Bows, Elven Weapons Group Discount, Spears</span></font></td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>5</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total Skills Cost</b></span></font></td> </tr> </span></font></td> </tr></table><br style="page-break-after: always;"><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" colspan=2 width=100% valign="top"> <tr> <td bgcolor="black" align="left" class="header" colspan=2 style="padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><font color="white"> DISADVANTAGES </span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Cost&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" width="100%" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Disadvantage</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Verbityk Elf Characteristic Maxima</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">5</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">DF: Verbityk Elf (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">20</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Susceptibility: Iron & Steel, 1d6 damage Instant and then per Minute (Very Common)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN Iron & Steel (Very Common)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">15</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" valign="top"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x BODY Iron & Steel (Very Common)</span></font></td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="white" align="center"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>75</b></span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=1><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Total Disadvantages Cost</b></span></font></td> </tr> </span></font></td> </tr></table><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=5 width=100% valign="top" style="width: 164mm; border: solid black 1px;"> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Height:&nbsp;</b>6' 0"</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Hair:&nbsp;</b>Silver or Gold</span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Weight:&nbsp;</b>100 lbs</span></font></td> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" nowrap><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Eyes:&nbsp;</font></b><font color="Black">Violet to Lavender</span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Appearance:&nbsp;</b>Smaller than most other Races of Elves, Verbityk Elves are also superbly graceful and exquisitely beautiful as a rule. They are equally as likely to favor archery or Arcane Magic, with many of their number mastering both.</span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Personality:&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Quote:</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Background:&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Powers/Tactics:&nbsp;</b></span></font></td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white" align="left" colspan=2><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>Campaign Use:&nbsp;</b>Verbityk Elves are very rare, appearing only in small pockets in the deep forests of the World of Greyhawk. Thought to be related to the Grugach and perhaps the Snow Elves, Verbityk Elves are more closely connected with their Faerie heritage than most of their cousin Races. They have a dire sensitivity to ferrous metal, which encourages them to avoid proximity to the races of Dwarves and Men, who favor Iron based equipment. </span></font></td> </tr></table><table><tr><td bgcolor="white"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Character created with <a href="http://www.herogames.com" target="new"><font color="Black"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hero Designer</font></a> (version 2.06)</span></font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

[Killer Shrike]

Ok, noticed a few things that need to be fixed on the Verbityk Elf write up.

Only vs Sleep/Charm for MD was priced correctly, but the lim value is a typo -- it should be -1 not -2.

Archers STR needs No Figured Char applied to it

Now that Im able to change the NCM directly in HD, SPD is no longer bought as a Power in 10 point increments, so I got back 5 points from figureds there. I used the 5 points to make Archers STR 0 END and to bump Mage Sight up to 16-

[Hierax]

Coming along nicely, Ed,

I noticed that you changed the Susceptibility from "Per Minute" to use the "Per Turn" cost and kept the "Per Minute" description but added and instant.

Not to be dense but, I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding the rule, why the modification?

THANKS!

P.S. FWIW, I'll make up a Template for my own version of Elves when the 2.07 update comes out as I'll need to use the new MD method.

[zarglif69]

Jeez, how many times do I have to tell you guys!?!!? if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D!!! you don't have to use HERO to do it.

[Captain Obvious]

Maybe it's "for entertainment purposes only"....:cool:

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zarglif69
Jeez, how many times do I have to tell you guys!?!!? if you want to play D&D, go ahead and PLAY D&D!!! you don't have to use HERO to do it. And how many times do we have to tell you we arent playing D&D? Some people just never get it, I guess.

But thanks for telling me what to do with my own free time. :rolleyes:

[zarglif69]

Alright, sorry bout all that, but why do you keep on insisting on converting Greyhawk and its magic? it's just the same as any other badly-made high fantasy setting, a cobbled-together mishmash of Earth's legends and stuff stolen from Tolkein. Then, there's the magic. It defies all definitions of magic!! Magic is not supposed to be tiered into neatly organized levels and classes and whatnot. The wizards who manipulate it are more like scientists that the wizards they're supposed to be.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zarglif69
Alright, sorry bout all that, but why do you keep on insisting on converting Greyhawk and its magic? it's just the same as any other badly-made high fantasy setting, a cobbled-together mishmash of Earth's legends and stuff stolen from Tolkein. Then, there's the magic. It defies all definitions of magic!! Magic is not supposed to be tiered into neatly organized levels and classes and whatnot. The wizards who manipulate it are more like scientists that the wizards they're supposed to be.

OMG! You are so right! How wrong of me to enjoy playing my hobby as I see fit all these years! Please, oh enlightened one, fill the sudden void of hobby time youve just created by revealing unto me the vast transgressions I have commited in my choice of recreation lo these 2 decades past! Tell me what I should like and how to play, so that I may do it correctly.

You are veritable beacon in the darkness, a brilliant lighthouse shining a burning torch of clarity through the fog of my obviously flawed preferences!


:rolleyes:

Now, for the last time, your opinions have been noted, please stop posting "you are all idiots for doing this" posts. Move along please, nothing to see, just a hedge.

[Southern Cross]

Thanks for all the hard work, Killer Shrike.Did you check out the last issue of DRAGON magazine? It was essentially a series of articles on most of TSR's old campaign settings.One of the articles was for the Al-Quadim sha'ir character class.That's right,they converted the Sha'ir class to D&D.
Interested?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Southern Cross
Thanks for all the hard work, Killer Shrike.Did you check out the last issue of DRAGON magazine? It was essentially a series of articles on most of TSR's old campaign settings.One of the articles was for the Al-Quadim sha'ir character class.That's right,they converted the Sha'ir class to D&D.
Interested? Thanx! As it happens, I did pick it up on a whim -- I havent picked up a copy since I let my subscription lapse (roughly around the time FRED was released ;)) because I saw the Greyhawk blurb on the cover.

I might take a stab on the Shair actually, in a few weeks perhaps. I was just talking to WilyQ, whose working on a desert based culture for the shared world Im building w/ my players for our next FH campaign. A modified version of the Sha'ir might work for one of the cultures we've thumbnailed in.

[zarglif69]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
OMG! You are so right! How wrong of me to enjoy playing my hobby as I see fit all these years! Please, oh enlightened one, fill the sudden void of hobby time youve just created by revealing unto me the vast transgressions I have commited in my choice of recreation lo these 2 decades past! Tell me what I should like and how to play, so that I may do it correctly.

You are veritable beacon in the darkness, a brilliant lighthouse shining a burning torch of clarity through the fog of my obviously flawed preferences!


:rolleyes:

Now, for the last time, your opinions have been noted, please stop posting "you are all idiots for doing this" posts. Move along please, nothing to see, just a hedge.
Well, I'm just suggesting you might try a setting that's a little more original and flavorful...

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zarglif69
Well, I'm just suggesting you might try a setting that's a little more original and flavorful... Sounds great. When youve got your website up and running detailing your idea of an orignal and flavorful setting, you let me know and Ill post a link to it. In the meantime, have a nice life.

[zarglif69]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Sounds great. When youve got your website up and running detailing your idea of an orignal and flavorful setting, you let me know and Ill post a link to it. In the meantime, have a nice life.
Life!?!? Whaddaya mean life?!!? I have no life!!!

[Southern Cross]

Then get one.

[Killer Shrike]

Added a new kind of Magic user to the Web Site.

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