HERO System Newbie (sorta) Needs Help

[JeffB]

Hello,

I've lurked here for a couple of years now. Posted once or twice on the old boards,and I'm in need of some advice, please

Back when Hero game first started I ran Espionage (my intro the company & system), Champions, & Justice Inc. I was a teenager then, and in 1984 quit RPGs for 15 years or so. In the past few years I've got back into RPG's, and I've been wanting to run ag ame of Champs and/or use the Hero system for Fantasy as I always loved the flexibility of the Character Creation process. I bought FRED a year ago or so, and I'm just totally overwhelmed with it. Every month I pick it up start at the beginning and can barely get through the Skills chapter without my head spinning. I don't remember Espionage and Champs being so complex...although we were kids and I'm sure I skipped alot of rules 20 years ago. My Rolemaster books don't scare me nearly as much as FRED. So we end up playing D&D, Exalted, LA, and other stuff..which is fine, but I want to try something new/fresh.. I also bought GURPS hoping for a universal system...but It just seems a a bit, I don't know..clunky (?)

My question is: Would I be better off searching out an older version of the Rulesbook/s? I'm sure FRED has more balanced or less "broken" rules, but if the 4th Edition (for example) would be easier for me to use, teach, and run, I can deal with those rules probs as they come up. Or should I just find a copy of Champions 3rd or Espionage or something?

Or can someone tell me what to ignore in the FRED book? Stuff that's not absolutely critical that I learn & use?

I bought the Fuzion version of Champions and I find that much simpler to understand (though its riddled w/ errors), but I prefer the straight HERO system (and my group prefers Fantasy and I think it would be easier to get them to play Fantasy Hero)..is there something akin to the Fuzion version?

HELP!
:confused:

Thanx in advance.
JeffB

[JmOz]

My advice is skip chapter 1, come back to it later, read the rest first, then sit down and make a character, the problem with chap 1 is that it describes all the powers/skills, something you need but you don't have any refrence to use with it yet

[Monolith]

First off, take two deep breaths and relax. It's going to be ok. :)

The HERO System can be daunting, but it is no where near as complicated as the rules make it out to be. :)

The first thing I would say to you is to download the Genre-By-Genre document from the Free Stuff section. The pdf has sample characters for many of the different genres that HERO can be played in. Take a look at those example characters to get some basic understanding of what a balanced character should look like.

Character creation is the hardest part of the HERO System, so once you cross that hurdle it's all down hill. There is no way to get around reading the book though. For example, If you do not know what the basic skills are you will not know what to choose when you want to make a character. You need to give yourself a brief overview of all the skills, talents, perks, and powers within the game so that you can decide what you want to choose when making the character. That does not mean you need to be an expert, but it is helpful to know the difference between Damage Resistance and Energy Blast. :)

The easiest way to learn this game is to look at example characters. If you only have FREd then you are at a slight disadvantage because there are no example characters to give you an idea of how they should look. This is why I suggest downloading the Genre-By-Genre document. Once you see some characters in print it makes more sense.

You talk about buying an earlier version, but what I would suggest you do is buy the Champions Genre book for 5th Edition instead. That book has example characters (heroes and villains), talks about Archetypes, and even has a random character generator that can give you ideas on how to make characters. The big advantage to the Champions book is that it gives you the Champions hero team. You can use that team and the villains within the book to run a few games with your players. That way everyone gets the feel of the game before having to worry about making characters. Once you have played a couple of times you will see the difference between the various powers, skills, and other aspects of the game.

It is far easier to begin playing Champions by just learning to play. If you try and start with character creation you are just bogging yourself down into detail that you are not really ready to deal with if you are not comfortable just learning from a book. Download the Genre-By-Genre document, think about purchasing Champions, but either way just spend some time playing around with the sample characters to give you an idea.

[Al_Beddow]

Jeff, I had the same problem You are experiancing.

What I did was:
- Skip the definitions and just look them up as you need. It was about 2 weeks before I cared that "OIAF" meant "Obvious InAccessible Focus".

- Take your time. I read the stuff on how to buy skills, then on how to buy powers, then went to the combat section for some reading. This kept the game mechans simple enought for the first couple of passes through the book

- Once you've achived a basic familiarity with what's going on, go back to the skills section and read the skills and examples.

- Then go and read the powers. Be careful to include how to apply Adders, Advantages, and Limitations. It threw me for a few days but I got it. Working out the examples always helps.

- Create a few sample characters, get a feel for it.

- Now try frameworks. First the EC, then the Multipower. I personally am still saving VPP's for later.

Hope this helps.

[Pattern Ghost]

Also, check the online FAQ when you find something unclear. Sometimes it's easier than trying to find the reference in the main book. Even though 5th has a thorough index -- probably the best in an RPG IME -- it's still a huge book and things can slip by. For one thing, it's text-dense, and that alone makes small pieces of info hard to dig out.

[Insaniac99]

Originally posted by Al_Beddow
- Now try frameworks. First the EC, then the Multipower. I personally am still saving VPP's for later.

huh, maybe i shoulda done that, i went Multipower to a small EC to a VPP.. in character creation..

[Blue]

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest you find one of the easier earlier games, like Justic Inc or an earlier edition of Champions, and then anytime you have a rule that you can't figure out due to lack of clarity or you can't figure out how to do something because it's not in the book, Look it up in 5e. In no time you'll be using all kinds of 5e rules.

After all, one of the strengths of 5th edition is the index.

Only problem you'll have with this procedure is rounding up old supplements to run. But even those can be ordered online in various spots.

[JohnTaber]

Hi JeffB,

Not to scare you but in my mind running the fantasy genre using Hero (aka Fantasy Hero) might be the toughest genre to run in Hero. I said it was tough...I did NOT say I thoughr it should not be used for fantasy. In fact I think Hero works REALLY great for fantasy. I have run many campaigns in the past. :) I just think you may want to take it slow like others suggest. The problem is that FH spells need a magic system which the GM must provide and often balancing the magic with the fighting can be tough for first timers. ;)

I think I recommend starting something like Blue says. Pick a genre without spells and try a couple of games with your players. Maybe make up a 1 shot spy game where the PC are provided. Once everyone feels a bit more comfortable start branching out.

You could then move to a simple Champs game too to get a feel for the rules and how powers work. If you want pickup DH#9. There is a sample adventure with all the players and villains provided. Try with that...

Just thinkin' out loud...as the others said...stick with it. Once you start using Hero you can't imagine why anyone would use another system...at least I can't... :D

[zornwil]

The only thing I would add that was implied but maybe not stated (though I only hastily looked through the other responses) is to not spend time reading through each skill and power. Anything that looks like it's pivotal (for example, many people are really into martial arts) are worth a look but otherwise aren't worth spending time until/unless they come up or someone wants them ("Computer Programming" or "Security Systems" in any fantasy setting). This is especially true of powers. Also, you might get a lot of bang for the buck out of just buying Hero Designer (depending on your finances) and designing characters via the software, looking up in the book as you see things that don't make sense/wonder what they are.

[Killer Shrike]

I must admit Im sitting here thinking "whats so complicated about it?", but in the interests of being helpful heres some input:


If you can play D&D 3e, you can play the HERO System. A suprising amout of the 'new' additions to 3e are lifted right out of the HERO System -- or at least sure seem that way to me.

Character Development is the most time consuming part of the HERO System, and breaks down as follows:

Skill: in the d20 System you roll a d20 and add your skill ranks and some modifiers to hit a target number. In the HERO System most skills are rated as a #-, and are usually based on Some Stat divided by 5 + 9. Thus, a starting stat of 10 yields an 11- for a roll based on that stat. You can gain +1 with a skill for 2 character points. To succeed with a skill, roll 3d6. If you roll under your skill (ie, for an 11- a roll of 3-11) then you succeed. The amount you made it by indicates degree of success if the player or GM wants to split hairs for dramatic description, but success is success. Difficult or easy tasks are represented by positive and negative modifiers. Thus a particularly easy task gains a bonus to the skill (say +2), and a particularly difficult task takes a penalty to the skill. This is different to d20 where the modifier applies to the roll. Because you are rolling under a difficulty, not aggregating to a higher number like in d20, success is relative. Thus a character with a small chance of success in the HERO System (8-) can still theoretically succeed, whereas in d20 some target numbers are so high as to make the task impossible for all but the most skilled.

The HERO System also lets you do something cool that I havent seen in any other system. It will let you buy generalized skill levels that apply to a group of skills rather than have to buy each skill up seperately. Thus, you might buy +1 with all INT based skills, which would let you add 1 to any single INT based skill you have per action, rather than buying +1 for each individual skill at 2 points each.


There are some skills that dont fit this general model. There are some flat abilities such as Defensive Manuever and Two Weapon Fighting which represent a more general competency that isnt rated in chance of success; you either know how to do it or you dont. This includes Martial Arts which are a cool little subsystem of the rules.

There are also some skills which are flat and also incremented. This includes Languages, Weapon and Transport Familiarities, things like that. Basically they represent minor or specific abilities which you can buy on the cheap in groups. Thus, not being an Amish farmer you may be Familiar with Small Ground Vehicles (Cars, Trucks, etc), but not Horse & Buggys. Similarly you may be fluent in French, but have a horrible accent when you speak Italian.

Finally there are Skill Enhancers. Skill Enhancers let you get a bunch of the same sort of skill at a discount, so if you want to play a guy thats traveled all over the place and has a bunch of Area Knowledges to represent his globetrotting knowledge, then you could take the Traveler Skill Enhancer and save a point on each Area Knowledge. Enhancers are only efficient if you are buying 4 or more appropriate skills, so it prevents abuse and encourages interesting background flavor.



Perks are things which are good to have, but arent Skill based. Perks include any special privledges like Memeber of Low Nobility or Passport, but also include social advantages, such as contacts, vehicles, bases, that sort of thing.


Talents are like mini-powers (they are built using the Powers rules) that are acceptible in a non-superheroic setting (and superheroic too). They represent unusual but possible abilities like ambidexterity and people that can do sums in thier head rapidly. For the most part they are interesting flavor abilities, but generally dont make much of an impact on the game as a whole. One exception is Combat Luck, which is a good way of handling the heroic 'just missed me' effect. Not all talents are appropriate for all genres, and also you as the GM can define your own talents if there is some set ability you want to exist in your campaign, like Mystic Sensitivity, that you dont want players resorting to the Powers rules to build. This allows you to inject some cool facets into a Heroic-level game where abilities built using the Powers rules are rare or dont exist. Some D&D "Feats" might fall into this category.


Powers are the core of the HERO System. They are the most complex, the most confusing, and also the most satisfying part of the system. Powers is a general term; it does not correspond or translate to "COMIC BOOK SUPER POWERS", which a strangely large number of starting HERO players seem to think. The powers rules are used to build any game effect you can think of regardless of how its defined or conceptualized. Gun, sword, magic spell, mutant eye beams, whatever. You build it with Powers. Powers are general, they represent a game mechanic. Some of the Power names unfortunately still show thier roots in Champions and have names like Energy Blast (EB for short), which is IMO the most confusingly named Power in the book (if it had been renamed "Normal Attack, Ranged" and Hand Attack had been renamed "Normal Attack, Hand" in 5th I think it would have made much more sense, but whatever), but for the most part thier names are pretty descriptive of what they are.

Thus if you want to do damage at range, you probably want either an Energy Blast or Killing Attack, Ranged depending on whether your intent is lethal or not.


When you buy a Power you are buying a game mechanic for your character. You have the ability to do X because you bought the ability in character points.

Powers are bought by buying the base effect. The sum of the cost associated with the effect is called the BASE COST (BC).

Now, to differentiate your generic Power from every other you can (but dont have to) add MODIFIERS to that Power. Modifiers come in 2 varieties; things which make the Power better, and things which make the Power worse. For some abstruse reason predating my HERO's experience, positive modifiers are called ADVANTAGES while negative modifiers are called nonintuitively LIMITATIONS; "Disadvantages" is a term used to describe a different game concept.

THis step is where most people get confused, because math becomes involved. Whip out a calculator, and press forward; its not that big of a deal.

Advantages are expressed as fractional multipliers and Limitations as fractional divisors. Every modifier is in an increment of +/-1/4, or 25%.

You add up all Advantages, so that two +1/2 Advantages = a +1 Advantage (+100%). Take the BASE COST (BC) of the Power and multiply it times 1 + the total of all Advantages. This yields the ACTIVE POINTs (AP) of the Power; a high AP indicates a Power that is assumed to be potent; its got a lot going on in it. The ENDURANCE cost of a power is by defaulted to ACTIVE POINTS/10, but one of the Advantages available can halve that or reduce it to 0 for a +1/4 or +1/2 respectively.

Finally, you add up all Limitations in exactly the same way as Advantages; a -1/4 + -1/4 = -1/2. Take the ACTIVE POINTS of the Power and divide it by 1 + the total of the Limitations. Thus if you had a total of -1, you would dived the ACTIVE POINTS by 2. This yields the REAL COST (RC). The REAL COST is what you pay in character points for the ability.


You also define a Special Effect (SFX) that goes along with the Power. Some power will have compound SFX; for example, a Lightning Bolt spell would have the SFX: Magic and the SFX: Electricity. This is very similar to how D&D 3e classifies spells; an Cone of Cold made in the HERO System would have SFX: Magic, SFX: Conjuration, and SFX: Cold. The SFX of a power act as grooves for other powers to hook into; for example, I might buy a Force Field and define it as being Only vs Magic, or Only vs Cold; this interacts with the SFX of other powers such as your Cone of Cold or you Lightning Bolt.

The SFX of a Power will often indicate/dictate the appropriate Modifiers. So if you wanted to design a Fireball spell, you would almost certainly apply either Area of Effect: Radius (perhaps Conforming) OR Explosion (perhaps Conforming). If you wanted a Power that you could only use once per day, then the Limitation Charges: 1/Day is the way to go for a nice fat -2 Limitation (the Power is roughly 200% less useful than the same Power without the Charge limitation).


OK, thats it. The "HARD PART" TM is over. Now all thats left is picking some Disadvantages to define a character. Disadvantages are mostly just story hooks and character definition. Players new to HERO or GURPS tend to get put off by this feature of the game, but they really do add a lot of strength to the system. The key is for players to make the Disadvantages work for them, not against them. By giving you as the GM solid story hooks and interesting character flaws to work into the game, they are enabling you to tell a better story and more fully involve thier characters into the game world. Its an immature player that resists/resents this sort of involvement. However, if a player does not want to take any Disadvantages, thats fine too. They dont have to take them, but they will start off with far fewer character points than thier fellow PCs because characters start out with X Base points and Y Max points from Disadvantages. A character with no Disadvantages has only thier Base points to work with. Such is the price of 'perfection'. :)



The combat system works almost exactly the same as D&D 3e (which I strongly suspect was lifted almost wholesale from the HERO System).

The difference are:

Combat is broken down into 12 Second Turns, each second is a SEGMENT, each SEGMENT your character goes in is a PHASE for that character. A PHASE starts on that characters DEX and lasts until thier action is complete. D&D Action = HERO Phase. Your characters SPEED, not thier level, determines how many Phases they get each Turn and those Phases are as evenly spaced across the 12 seconds as possible; thus a 4 SPEED character gets 4 Phases each Turn (3,6,9,12) whereas a 6 SPEED character gets 6 Phases (2,4,6,8,10,12). This is why SPEED is so expensive as a statistic.

The 1/2 Phase Action bit is almost exactly the same between the 2 systems, except you cant Attack and then Move, only Move then Attack. An Attack always ends your action immediately.

You roll 3d6 rather than a D20 to hit. To determine if you hit, add your Offensive Combat Value (OCV) to 11 and subtract your 3d6 roll. This tells you what Defensive Combat Value you hit.

No attacks of Opportunity

No 5 Foot Steps

Thats about all that comes to mind. All the basic manuevers that I can think of have a fairly obvious parallel between the 2 systems.


Damage is handled differently between the 2 systems. HERO has BODY and STUN. BODY represents serious injury, STUN represents pain, minor injuries that dont really slow you down, and just general abuse. Loss of STUN will knock you out, loss of BODY can kill you. All attacks generally do both types of damage unless certain modifiers are being applied, but Killing Damage obviously does more BODY in an effort to kill something, whereas Normal Damage _can_ kill in large quantity (like bashing someone over the head with a chair will generally knock them out, but can kill them on accident or repeated applications) but primarily just hurts a lot and thus does more STUN to model that.

Most damage in D&D can be considered to be Killing Damage in HEROs; Subdual damage would equal normal damage.


Thats the important stuff in a nutshell, hope it helps, and good luck!