Mental Powers On The KO'd

[JohnTaber]

Hi Gents,

Got a dumb question but it came up in my game...

Can mental powers work on someone who is unconcious?

I would imagine ego attack would be ok in some cases based on the special effect but what about telepathy? In my session the PC wanted to dig for memories and deep secrets on a villain who they just knocked out. I could not find this documented anywhere but maybe I just missed it... ;)

What do folks think?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Well, page 274 lists an ECV of 0 as one of the consequences of being Knocked Out, so I'd assume that means you can use Mental Powers on unconscious targets. No reason to mention their ECV otherwise. :) As a GM, I'd probably rule on Telepathy that an unconscious target has no surface thoughts (or only whatever he's dreaming about), so they'd have to get at least the +10 level to be effective.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Derek: Thanks...that is what I ruled in the session. ;)

[nuada]

Is this fun, though?

As a GM, having the players KO a villain so they can pillage his thoughts and find out his plan seems a little non-heroic to me.

Also, there's so much more fun to be had in an interrogation scene. And, it lets folks break out those skills they should have spent some points on.

Also, remember that this sort of thing can cut both ways. If a player gets captured, and KO'ed, the villains can get all sorts of fun information out of them. Like the location of their base, their secret identity, the name and address of their dependants, a list of petty crimes they participated in as a minor, etc.

just my $2.40 (adjusted for inflation)

[JohnTaber]

Hi Nuada,

Oh I totally agree. From a heroic aspect this is pretty ugly... I'll knock you out then mind rape your memories. Ouch. I won't go into the background of my campaign and this situation but yeah...not heroic.

BE A HERO!

[Dust Raven]

I agree the act woud not be very heroic, but not all heroes are very heroic.

Using EGO Attack is a simple matter. Just remember to double the STUN.

Telepathy gets tricks. No one has real "surface thought's" while unconscious, but anything below that is fair game.

Mental Illusions can be fun, and can even trick a target into thinking he's already gotten up (thereby keeping him down after he's recovered).

Mind Control is pretty useless, unless you can produce a lasting effect that will stick long enough for the character to wake up.

Mind Scan is still straight forward and completely unchanged, although an unconscious target wouldn't remember the scan.

Remember that, even though unconscious, the subconscious mind will notice the invasion and respond, meaning the targets will still get their allotted EGO rolls.

[nuada]

Remember that, even though unconscious, the subconscious mind will notice the invasion and respond, meaning the targets will still get their allotted EGO rolls.

Wait, doesn't this contradict:


page 274 lists an ECV of 0 as one of the consequences of being Knocked Out

?

While I personally prefer the idea that the unconscious are not open books to mentalists, both as a player and as a GM, I think the FREd is pretty clear about the fact that they /are/ open books. Ripe for the pillaging, as it were.

Of course, unconscious people should still get their mental defense, right? Just no ECV.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Those don't seem contradictory to me. ECV and EGO Rolls are different things. :)

The EGO Rolls for breaking out of Mental Powers might be seen, in some ways, as analogous to STR Rolls for breaking out of a Grab or Entangle. If you've been Entangled, your DCV is 0 (just as the ECV of an unconscious foe is 0), but that doesn't mean you can't still use your STR to break out (just as an unconscious target can still make EGO Rolls to escape from Mental Powers). Page 79 of H5E does indeed describe these breakout attempts as "subconscious" and taking no time.

[nuada]

Thanks for the clarification.

So, an unconscious person can make ego rolls to break mental commands, or even boot out a telepath? Are there rules for repeated attempts? If not, what's to stop the unconscious guy from just trying over and over again, since he has nothing better to do?

Sorry, I'm at work and bookless, or I'd just look this up. But now I'm all curious.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by nuada
So, an unconscious person can make ego rolls to break mental commands, or even boot out a telepath?Absent any ruling to the contrary, I don't see why not.

Are there rules for repeated attempts? If not, what's to stop the unconscious guy from just trying over and over again, since he has nothing better to do?There are, on page 79. The victim doesn't "try" to break out; all these attempts are subconscious and automatic... even if the victim is awake. They get an attempt after they're first affected, then they get further attempts at intervals on the Time Chart. You can't hurry this along by deliberately "trying" to break out. :)