Liefeld's Titans

[hooligan x]

I just picked up my overflowing file at Clockwork Comics and was slapped in the gob by the suckbomb called Tean Titans. Is anyone else upset by this mini-arc of blech?

[Blue]

Liefeld? Oh, I gotta google that. Surely someone will have posted disproportioned pictures of Robin benchpressing a 6 ton firearm with one hand by now.

[Blue]

All the trademarks are there!
http://www.newsarama.com/DC/liefeld/robtitans4.jpg

I'm not sure, but I think they were fighting The Constipater here...
http://www.newsarama.com/DC/liefeld/robtitans5.jpg

[Hermit]

I wish my crotch was as big as wondergirl's.

[Korvar]

Oh.

My.

I had forgotten just how bad he really is!

Somehow it's even more awful, as these are familiar characters to me, not his own.

Apparently the writer on the series is quite good, which in some ways just makes it worse...

[hooligan x]

The story is as bad as the art. I am told it will only last one more issue, which I will skip. I don't know who will take over after that.

[digital_lorax]

Why do people still let that man make waste with pencils?

[Blue]

More Liefeldian Disproportions

http://www.robliefeld.net/teentitans.htm

I never noticed the mouths before. Check out this one. Frame 1, both characters heads turned same direction exactly, mouths in same position; Frame 3, everybody eyes front, same epxression; Frame 4, everbody mouths open.

http://www.robliefeld.net/titans16.htm

[TrevorG]

I just picked up my overflowing file at Clockwork Comics and was slapped in the gob by the suckbomb called Tean Titans. Is anyone else upset by this mini-arc of blech?

Its funny you mention this, there was a huge thread on the DC Boards abou the "art" of the last issue. Liefeld (or someone pretending to be him) actually went on the boards to apologize to those who were upset and assure them it was only one more issue.

Trev

[Lightray]

Huzzah! :celebrate I chose wisely and did not pick up Liefeld's Teen Titans featuring the Wonder Wang!

A winnar is me!

:king:

[casualplayer]

The story is as bad as the art. I am told it will only last one more issue, which I will skip. I don't know who will take over after that.

The story is bad? Dang it, I really like Gail Simone's writing. I was almost tempted to pick it up because of her.

It's kinda cool that Liefeld is doing a Hawk and Dove guest shot because before he got X-Force-funky he cut his teeth on H&D. He wasn't awful then.

[hooligan x]

I dont know how much time passed between issues, but Raven's hair grew a foot at least. And why does Cyborg have an infant's head? AND THE TEETH! They all have the same mad dentist who gave Caine Marko all those extra teeth! Why, sweet Odin, why?


WHO'S IDEA WAS THIS?

[ghost-angel]

I dont know how much time passed between issues, but Raven's hair grew a foot at least. And why does Cyborg have an infant's head? AND THE TEETH! They all have the same mad dentist who gave Caine Marko all those extra teeth! Why, sweet Odin, why?


WHO'S IDEA WAS THIS?
Yeah... uh, sorry about that... see what had happened was me an' Chuck Norris were out behind the local 7-11 with our Maddog, when Liefeld strolled up with an eightball right... we got to talking and stuff... well, slurring after all the booze and coke, and... you know... these things happen.

[Lord Mhoram]

The story is bad? Dang it, I really like Gail Simone's writing. I was almost tempted to pick it up because of her.
.

I personally don't see the story as bad - just reading the dialog and narration boxes are really pretty cool, but the art, and Liefeld's inabilty to create motion or cohesiveness between panels (just glorified poses) really detract from it. I think the story it fine, the art is just so bad that it detracts from the story.

All Hail Gail Simone.

[Badger]

Yeah, I dont think it would have actually been him apologizing. From what I can gather he actually thinks he is good.;)

[death tribble]

From what I can gather he actually thinks he is good.;)
No, he actually thinks he's God.

But he can never be forgiven for creating the ultimate Mary Sue character, Cable.

[John Desmarais]

The story is bad? Dang it, I really like Gail Simone's writing. I was almost tempted to pick it up because of her.

It's kinda cool that Liefeld is doing a Hawk and Dove guest shot because before he got X-Force-funky he cut his teeth on H&D. He wasn't awful then.'

You memory is being clouded by the veil of time. He was that bad then, but Karl Kesel was fixing much of his nastieness in the inking stage.

[BlackSword]

Yes, the opening page of Robin swinging down with about 6000 extra muscles meant that the issue would be a visual treat. I like Simone's writing, and her work on Birds of Prey is well done.

[JmOz]

I kind of disliked the writing too, however I do normaly like the writer, so I blame Liefield for it as well...

I think the writer should have familirised herself with Hawk & Dove a little better (Hawk's powers come FROM Chaos, not 1/2 from, and hawk can take Kestrel with little effort in a strait up fight)

[Blue]

For all the things that people make fun of regarding Liefeld's work, upon reviewing the Titans panels, the thing that bugs me the most is his lack of dynamic flow.

What I mean is... well... There's no impact to anything. When I once deluded myself into thinking I could be a comic artist, I read "How to draw comics the Marvel way". There's a great example where a figure is standing in a doorway and while it's nicely drawn, it's utterly unremarkable; Then next to it they have the same figure from a ground-up view, the door and character receding away in perspective.

Everything Liefeld does is horizontal or vertical. Characters stand straight up or fly straight across. Their heads are at 90 degree angles to the page, even when punched, he just turns their face to that 3/4 view like the blow forced them to turn their head.

In one of the items I referenced above, there's a shot where a girl is kicking Robin in the first panel. I kept thinking "nice coloring job" but the fact is, a colorist would have a full time job trying to make a Liefeld panel look dynamic. He needed to have a bright spot at the point of impact between the girl's foot and robin. But honestly, if the artist had been any good, he wouldnt' have to compensate.

Since the days of "bif" "bam" "pow" are over, as almost no one includes punching or striking sound effects anymore, everyone has stopped drawing impact lines as well. Back when comics were black and white, they HAD to have motion lines. But since any artist can have his colorist carry him with digital effects, they often get lazy.

My honest opinion: This guy needs an art class. Same way that I need an art class. To bush up on fundamentals. Then he needs a few hours with Stan Lee pointing out to him how to use dynamic camera angles. I'd have Jack Kirby do it, but he's long gone; and Stan was a great editor.

[casualplayer]

Awwww, Kestrel's in it too? Gail Simone is like the spiritual heir to Barbara Kesel (probably still recovering from the CrossGen War) and now she's riffing on Barbara's characters. That is almost tempting enough to overcome willingly subjecting myself to eyeball-searing Liefeld pencils.

Was I being too generous by saying Liefeld's pencils "weren't awful?"

[hooligan x]

Teen Titans #27. Grab your copy and read along!

Pg1. Does Tim have rickets? What is up with his legs?! Also, what the christing poo doodie is he doing on this page? Is trying to catch an enormous gummi worm?

pg2. Um, Cassie got implants off-panel in issue 26? Maybe they are swollen from mind-controled Superboy's beating. And Robin's head shrank between pages.

pg3. Cross Christina? Is that seriously the name they are gonna use for two issues? Let's just use CC for our purposes. Note the "Fat, stupid witch' CC is threatening is the same body type as all the other women in this comic.
BONUS: CC uses the word "pig" for the first time. And then the second.

pg4. Grouse? Your supervillian name is Grouse? Be careful lifting that "Fat witch". Lift with your knees, not your back!
Is that Asian dude with the yellow tie a super baddie? Where does he go?
Server Aja? Aaaahhh! Extreme closeup! I didn't know doc Johnson make cyberdolls!

pg5. Ad. Much better.

pg 6. MMMmmmm, Liefeldy. Cassie uses her super strength to haul tha fat cow to safety. Is that a business suit or a police uniform? Why is it made of shiney spandex?

pg7. Hey, Hubba Bubba! I like gum! Is that a Nick Park polar bear? Sweet. i wish this whole book was done by Nick Park. That'd rock out with it's sock out!

pg8. CC uses "Pig" again! Hey, she must have bought her gun from Robbie L's House of Unusually Large Firearms! Cable shops there. Good news: Cassie's breasts are shrinking. What are CC and Tim doing? Neither one of them is touching the ground and Tim's cape is growing.

pg9. That's cold! The Lords of Chaos are talking smack about him and HE IS RIGHT THERE! If that happened on my block, someone woulda got shot.

pg10. "PIG"! I guess "Sweet Christmas" and "Flame on" were taken, but PIG is not a good catchphrase. I am impressed that she managed to kick that teeny tiny head. What kinga OCV penalty is that, anyway?

P11. "Dear Rob,
Do you like me?
circle one:
Yes
No

Love, Gail"

Pg12. Love Robin's Cossack Dance of Doom. Antimatter grenades!

pg13. Everyone is safe and the bad guys are captured. Hey, What happened to Asian Yellow Tie Man? Did he escape? Or was he just Stockholm syndroming on page 4?
Daddy didn't love me!

pg14. Hey, a real comic book!

pg15. Has Liefeld never seen a bowling pin before? Those look like a combination cocktail shaker and sex toy. Hey, Raven bought a wig! That bowling alley must be old because everyone looks like they smell something stinky.

pg16. Robin picks up the ball, looks at it, sees there are no holes, and sits down without bowling. The kid like holes in is bowling ball, what can I say?

pg17-25 If I had Legos I'd build a robot monkey that could draw better than Liefeld.

pg26. Ohhh, blood! I guess this isn't still Bionicle. The stink of female? It must be all them scented candles she buys.

pg27. Hey kids! The Man won't let you buy chewing tobaccy? Practice with this stuff! You'll be 18 someday!

pg28. Is that Yellow Tie man again? How did he get the Fat Witch's glasses? Well, looks like we won't se him again. No wonder they never named him.

pg29. So when Hawk transforms, her hair parts on the other side? That's an odd superpower.

pg30. Oh no! Cassie's swollen breast disease is contagious! I think even Vic has caught it.

pg31. Nightmare Before Christmas 2, Electric Boogaloo!

pg32 & 33. Wristbands? Check! Lasso? Check! Huge man-junk package? Check and Check!

pg34. "Quick Robin! Do that jump-n-squat move you've been practicing!"

pg35. Look! Art school grads! Weird, huh?

pg36. I wish the JLA would mindwipe this comic from my memeory.

pg37. Holy crapsticks! CC knocked Cassie so hard her shoulders are at a 90 degree angle to her torso! That's gotta hurt!

pg38. Look at all the other comics you could have dropped your $2.50 on.

Pg39.The Teeth! The Teeth!

pg40. So, wait. What happened to Raven?

That's the book that out the "ick" in comic! Well, see you in 60, true believers!

[John Desmarais]

Teen Titans #27. Grab your copy and read along!

Repped! Best laugh I've had all day.

[Supreme Serpent]

Ah yes. Glad I cancelled this from my pull list once I heard Liefield was coming aboard. I was already considering it after the (IMO) poorly done Outsiders crossover, this just clinched it. Doubt I will pick it up again afterwards.

[Mutant for Hire]

Looking at the pics is giving me 90's flashbacks. The pain, the pain, make it go away please...

Anyone have any decent artwork to wash this out of my brain?

[TechnoViking]

I wish the JLA would mind wipe Liefeld, and make him forget what a pencil was.

[Enforcer84]

Repped! Best laugh I've had all day.
Agreed.

[Blue]

Awww. I can't read along! (Still funny, but not as fun as it could be.)

[Lethosos]

I wish my crotch was as big as Wondergirl's.

pg32 & 33. Wristbands? Check! Lasso? Check! Huge man-junk package? Check and Check!

Oooo... looks like Wondergirl's going in next to Soul Caliber's Talim under "Women with Suspicious Pants Packages." :ugly:

I'm still giggling over this. :snicker:

[mikesama]

Other issues with the "art" of Liefeld.

What the hell happened to the women's backs, you'd think Bane pulled a back breaker on each and every one of them considering how the spine is bent.

Robin's eyes must be 1/4 of an inch across given the size of the eye openings in his mask.

How many expressions can the man draw, 1 maybe 2?

Wonder Girl isn't the only woman packing something down the front of her tights.

What is the deal with Liefeld and big honking equipment pouches?

[Cancer]

Maybe the gig he's really after is doing the art for the next South Park movie, and he's building up his portfolio.

[Enforcer84]

Like I posted before, He thinks he's good. That he's simply doing it this way for "artistic" and "dynamic" reasons.

[Chimpira]

I have not been an admirer of Liefeld's art since Hawk and Dove. (The inking of Kesel helped immensely) But I will admit that his work does look better than it has previously. This is based off of the few titans pics that I have seen. I do not buy the title. He is not a draw to me but having said that, the man is in the industry and he still finds work. So what is he doing that we are not?

[aylwin13]

So what is he doing that we are not?
Things that are illegal in 49 of the 50 states and most other countries. :rolleyes:

[Red Knight]

In Liefeld's defense <waits for items to stop being thrown> at least you see a couple of the charaters' feet in the books.

Liefeld is awesome at totally destroying and misrepresenting all aspects of human anatomy and THEN, not showing feet. They usually were hidden by terrain and other stuff.

Also... I think he split away, FINALLY, from his standard format team...

* Old grizzled veteran that usually was huge in comparison to other
characters.
* Short, "brick" character
* Mega Huge "kind hearted" character
* Hip and cool, with a touch of edgy long haired character.Usually the
close-combat character.
* Young female with unearthly body who was eye candy for readers
and teammates.

I believe I have covered all the characters in all his teams.

[st barbara]

I haven't seen the comic (and i'm not sure that I WANt to !) but tell me do Liefeld's women have those Image comics breasts that require either adamantium spines or cavorite underwire bras to hold them up ?

[mvoncannon]

Looking at the pics is giving me 90's flashbacks. The pain, the pain, make it go away please...

Anyone have any decent artwork to wash this out of my brain?

Go here:
http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463

[Intrope]

I wish my crotch was as big as wondergirl's.
Word.

When I saw the art, I wondered if this was being marketed as 'When She-males attack!' :eek:

DC is paying him for this? why?

[Haven Walkur]

I LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE IT!

I've never knowingly encountered Rob Liefeld before, but I've loved the Teen Titans since the mid-80s. And personally, I think Mr Liefeld's done a wonderful job with his new images of the team. His Titans look magnificent, powerful, larger than life; they look like demigods!

In an era when too many comicbook artists are making a mockery of the heroes they're drawing -- based either on their attempt to "reinterpret" the characters, or their basic hatred of superhero comicbook characters -- it's good to see Mr Liefeld taking his heroes so seriously.

I don't think Mr Liefeld's illustrations are any more stylized than is usual with comicbook supers. (As if, say, George Perez or Dave Cockrum never drew a stylized illustration of a character!) I also didn't notice the flaws most posters objected to most strenuously; small hands and feet, extra teeth, taut muscles.

And as far as large boobs are concerned, I don't agree that Mr Liefeld has Double-D Disease. As I'm an adult woman and the unfortunate possessor of a rather large frontage, I always look with suspicion at the bust-lines drawn on female superheroes. And Mr Liefeld's ladies didn't bother me. At all.

I think that Mr Liefeld's work is so dynamic, so energetic and full of motion that the characters (particularly Robin and Wonder Girl) leap to life on the page. Mr Liefeld's "larger-than-life" style is well-suited to the Teen Titans, a league of godlike young heroes for whom the sky's the limit, and I'm glad to have him illustrating their adventures.

[Hermit]

I can't tell if she's serious or the local contrary for our tribe.

To each their own, I for one can never forgive the manboobs the man slapped on Cap.

[Haven Walkur]

Yes, I'm for real, Hermie-wermie. I've been here for years, lurking, collecting pics and occasionally interjecting unpopular comments. I'm the one that wrote the anti-Liberal rant on the NGD Board some time back...ringing any bells yet?

And yes, I really do like Liefeld's work on Titans.

[Haven Walkur]

"Man boobs"? On Captain America? Oh my word! Link please, Hermit.

[Vanguard00]

Repped! Best laugh I've had all day.
Ditto that. Funny as all get out, man.

[Vanguard00]

"Man boobs"? On Captain America? Oh my word! Link please, Hermit.
Remember, you asked...

Sorry, all. She asked.

[mvoncannon]

Remember, you asked...

Sorry, all. She asked.

For the love of Humanity someone please break Liefeld's fingers.

[John Desmarais]

Remember, you asked...

Sorry, all. She asked.

Arrrrgggg!!! I had blissfully forgotten that one. It does, however, nicely "illustrate" Liefield's problem as an artist: Like many of his generation in the industry, he's drawing people but has absolutely no idea how the human body is shaped.

Maybe an anatomy class would help...

[Haven Walkur]

Don't mean to be ingenuous, but I don't see it; the "man boobs", I mean. Certainly Mr Liefeld has drawn Captain America with a chest like a barrel, but I'd say that's in keeping with the concept of the character as a muscular super-soldier and physically perfect human being. A bit exaggerated, perhaps, but this is _Captain America_! He should be barrel-chested and slab-sided.

Thanks for the pic in question, Dave.

[Ura-Maru]

It’s a homage to ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics! You remember, with the body facing you, but the arms and head twisted 90’!

Actually, it’s not so much he’s got an enormous rack, as that his head is growing out of his right shoulder. I think the INTENTION was to have him in a heroic, 3/4 view, and then he drew the head in the wrong place, was too lazy to fix it/didn’t notice, and just put the back in based on where the head is.

Or, as likely, he was trying to light-table two different pictures together that didn’t quite fit.

Speaking of Liefield and ‘homages,’ there was a great web page that had various ‘Homage, Rip Off, or Coincidence’ panels from different comics, with the original and the later one next to each other, and you could vote which you thought it was.

Liefeld had more than his share, but they weren’t all his.

Anyway, this sent me looking for it, but I lost the link. Anyone know where the page is?

---
“If you take away cartoonists license to steal, where will they get their ideas?”

[Vanguard00]

Anyway, this sent me looking for it, but I lost the link. Anyone know where the page is?
This (http://julien-gautier.club.fr/rob_copie.jpg)is the only one I know about.

[Hermit]

Yes, I'm for real. I've been here for years, lurking, collecting pics and occasionally interjecting unpopular comments. I'm the one that wrote the anti-Liberal rant on the NGD Board some time back...ringing any bells yet?

And yes, I really do like Liefeld's work on Titans.


Didn't say you weren't real, just wondering if you were serious. :)

And, ugh, as I said, to each their own.

[Ura-Maru]

That's not the one I was thinking of, but it makes it's point well enough. There were a few others, including a painfully obvious Patlabor 'homage.'

Funny, though. I mean, the Cap one is generic enough to pass, and who's going to catch a swipe from an obscure manga or an old issue of G.I. Joe . . . but did he REALLY think no one was going to notice Lee's Helecarrier and Miller's Ronin?

---
Stealing from Eat-Man? That's low, man. Just low.

[hooligan x]

And, ugh, as I said, to each their own.

As long as she's not driving later.

[Dr. Anomaly]

I can't tell if she's serious or the local contrary for our tribe.
Oh, she's serious, alright. Since I know her in "real life", and have spoken with her about this subject over the phone just tonight, I'll verify that she means what she said.

I happen to strongly disagree with her assessment of RL's art, but it's hardly the first thing we've disagreed about, nor is is likely to be the last. ;)

Haven may not post much, but she does lurk, read, and collect pics that please her. :)

[hooligan x]

If we all put in $100 I bet we can commission Storn to re-draw this issue for our collections.

[hooligan x]

The response for the review of issue 27 was so overwhelming I may have to buy issue 28 and do it again. Damn you all!

[Vanguard00]

The response for the review of issue 27 was so overwhelming I may have to buy issue 28 and do it again. Damn you all!
It's your own damn fault.

When I got home last night I got out my book and read along. I'm still chuckling :)

[Blue]

Worse yet, he may be selling copies of it for Liefeld. I wanted to follow along so I looked for a copy at my local comic store. It turns out GOD interfered!

My comic store was burned to the ground when I got there. Seriously! They were in an empty store in the same lot, with a table, a couple of racks, and had no back issues. I take that as a sign. :D

[fbdaury]

Wow, I knew you could get dumber just reading Liefield comics but I didn't know his evil was so great that reading threads about his comic would melt your mind as well...:doi:

[fbdaury]

Arrrrgggg!!! I had blissfully forgotten that one. It does, however, nicely "illustrate" Liefield's problem as an artist: Like many of his generation in the industry, he's drawing people but has absolutely no idea how the human body is shaped.

Maybe an anatomy class would help...

Or cut off both his hands so that he can draw with his teeth, couldn't possibly be any worse than what he does now...:ugly:

[ghost-angel]

Remember, you asked...

Sorry, all. She asked.
forget the man boobs ... what direction is he facing? His torso is facing 3/4 view towards the right, his shoulders are facing perpendicular to the page strait right, his head is facing us, his arms at least follow his shoulders...

my eyes hurt trying to straiten the guy out to see if he really does have man boobs or if his upper torso is just titled away from the rest of him...

[Dawgstar]

Rob's art was, as normal, positively wretched. People's bodies don't work like that, he gets costumes all wrong, and can't remember how people look from panel to panel. While I don't forgive it, I accept it.

No, Gail Simone's the problem here. Raven talks like cartoon Starfire. I'm pretty sure she understands bowling by now. It's okay, though, since Villains United is as awesome as Teen Titans is crappy.

But, grain of salt. I bought it (admittedly, just so I don't break up my run).

[Blue]

I love Liefeld threads. Let's have one of these every month :)

[aylwin13]

I love Liefeld threads. Let's have one of these every month :) Can we have a Liefeld roast, as well. I'll bring the gasoline.






And a match. :eg:

[Dr. Anomaly]

And a match. :eg:
Hey! You can't have all the fun (and take all the credit!) for yourself! :tsk:









;)

[aylwin13]

Hey! You can't have all the fun (and take all the credit!) for yourself! :tsk:









;) You're quite right, Doc. I'll bring enough matches for everyone, and we can strike them all at once. :D

[Red Knight]

The problem is that Liefeld broke into the comic scene at the height of the IMAGE "over the top" reign. When all the characters carried weapons that were WAAAAYYYY to big and size and proportion did not matter. Alas... he still ahsn't gotten past that part.

I find it humorous that his style still gets him work... Although I half-suspect that the name is what gets him work.... not his work alone. After all, he did do a jeans commercial!!

Oh well, to each their own....

[ParagonAlpha]

Ohhh I get to rip on Liefield....

Okay so along time ago back in the late 80's, I was an aspiring comic book writer. Along with a few friends also trying to get int the industry, we made the con tours, part job hunting, part fanboy.

At that time we met another group of aspiring artists and writers who had started their own small press comic, called Megaton Comics.

These guys seemed pretty cool, Rob Liefield, Vic Bridges, Erik Larsen. Yeah now you're saying "Holy Cow. The Image guys." Yep those same people.

Well anyway Rob (or as I like to call him The Bad Man) was all hyped about his team book they were planning for Megaton to release, called Youngblood. He had all these team pose pictures in his portfolio.

Now as a writer with no ability to draw I am always envious of those who could, but after looking at his artwork, I made a comment how much Youngblood (at that time) resembled The Legion of Superheroes. Needless to say The Bad Man got all pissed off.

I didn't even mention the fact that none of his character have ankles or the microcephilic monstrosities. But he was pissed.

This sort of begun a war with his cliche and mine. My friend, an incredible artist (who I like to compare to Art Adams but with more talent) called Vic Bridges on his direct rips from John Byrne. I'm talking tracing. It was aweful.

Erik Larsen was cool, he was the level headed one out of their group.

So fast foward a few years and now The Bad Man is getting a break with DC comics drawing the restart of Hawk and Dove. Talk about the suck. No improvement.

Also we cannot forget or forgive The Bad Man for what he did to 20 years of X-Men continuity. I sometimes wish I would have taken the bet and thrown him down the elavator shaft. Damn my CVK.

Now move ahead a few more years and there it is IMAGE comics, the direct downfall of decent writing combine with solid artwork. Proof that just because you throw money at something doesn't make it better.

To this day, my respect for The Bad Man is just slighty above that of rapists. Someone in the comic idustry needs to be slapped until they forget his name.

Peace

[casualplayer]

Here I am...doo, doo, doo...look at me...doo, doo, doo. Nice sig quote Paragonalpha.

I want all of you Haters to fess up. Who bought X-Force whatever the heck # it was or Youngblood #1? I have both, but they came from the quarter bin because I wanted to see if they were as bad as I remembered. They were worse.

Erik Larsen-cuts his teeth at DC, does Savage Dragon regularly and steadily (not my cup of tea but props to the man.) Liefeld, Infantino, Silvestri, Portacio, etc-cut their teeth at Marvel, can't hit a release schedule to save their life, totally dependent on "look, we swear we aren't actually Mutants" flavor-of-the-month books.
Coincidence, I think not.

[Tim]

I actually liked the story, but had a hard time getting past the art.

[radioKAOS]

I dont know how much time passed between issues, but Raven's hair grew a foot at least. And why does Cyborg have an infant's head? AND THE TEETH! They all have the same mad dentist who gave Caine Marko all those extra teeth! Why, sweet Odin, why?


WHO'S IDEA WAS THIS?

lol, and here I though ole Jugs had gained a new superpower...

Grow Teeth at an Unbelievable Rate: 6pts Shape Shift (Sight Group), Instant Change, Makeover (20 Active Points); Only to grow extra teeth in certain poses when drawn by Liefield [Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (-2)], Affects Body Only (-1/2) END 2

Of course just being in that book gives everyone this:

25pts Drawn by Liefield: Physical Limitation: (All the Time, Fully Impairing)

and

1pt Drawn by Liefield: Stretching 1", Only to stay 'out of proportion' Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness (+0) (5 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4) END 1

not to mention

3 Drawn by Liefield: +10 STR (10 Active Points); Only to hold weapons in ridiculous poses [Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (-1 1/2)], No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) END 1

and of course

8 Drawn by Liefield: +10 DEX (30 Active Points); Only to hold ridiculous poses [Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (-2)], No Figured Characteristics (-1/2)

this is too much fun...

[radioKAOS]

Erik Larsen-cuts his teeth at DC, does Savage Dragon regularly and steadily (not my cup of tea but props to the man.) Liefeld, Infantino, Silvestri, Portacio, etc-cut their teeth at Marvel, can't hit a release schedule to save their life, totally dependent on "look, we swear we aren't actually Mutants" flavor-of-the-month books.
Coincidence, I think not.

Are you trying to imply that Larsen's start at DC was resposible for him being able to turn out a comic on time, and that people who start at Marvel can't 'hit a release schedule to save their life'?

That's just silly.

McFarlane got his start at Marvel and is one of, if not THE hardest working comic artist ever.

[Red Knight]

I have to say that Liefeld is not the only artist to drastically change the appearance of a character....

Anybody remember the appearance of the "new" Psylocke??


Oh... wait a minute... that was two different artists.... OK nevermind...


Liefeld DOES suck!!!!

[John Desmarais]

McFarlane got his start at Marvel and is one of, if not THE hardest working comic artist ever.

Actually, I believe his Infinity, Inc. work at DC predates any of his Marvel work.

[John Desmarais]

Erik Larsen-cuts his teeth at DC, does Savage Dragon regularly and steadily (not my cup of tea but props to the man.) Liefeld, Infantino, Silvestri, Portacio, etc-cut their teeth at Marvel, can't hit a release schedule to save their life, totally dependent on "look, we swear we aren't actually Mutants" flavor-of-the-month books.
Coincidence, I think not.

Infantino? The only Infantino I know of in the biz is Carmine Infantino, who was a well respected comic artist from the 1940s until his retirement in the 80s.

[radioKAOS]

Actually, I believe his Infinity, Inc. work at DC predates any of his Marvel work.

Yeah, but you'd be wrong on that one...

From his own site...

His break finally came when Todd accepted an offer from Marvel/Epic Comics in March 1984, pencilling "Scorpio Rose," an 11-page backup story in the comic book Coyote.

Infinity Inc wasn't until 1985 I believe...

[ParagonAlpha]

Oh don't even get me started on Mr Pompus *** McFarlane.

McFarlane got his start doing covers for Batman: Year Two. Then got a gig on Infinty Inc. just prior to the Crisis-saga

Some really good work. But Toddy got all full of himself when he got the gig on the Incredible Hulk, working with Peter David. The writing on that book was incredible and McFarlane started taking ALL of the success.

When he got to do the new Spiderman series I though hmmmm maybe it will be okay. But it was craptastic. And the fanboys ate it up.

When McFarlane defaulted on his Marvel Contract to move to Image I wasn't surprised.

I had a friend who got a job working for McFarlane's studio. Basically to do inking and some filler art. Well Todd got behind on an issue of Spawn (go figure) and sent the breakdowns to my friend to "finish pencilling and inking".

My friend had less than 2 weeks to get the entire book done. He busted his ***, got the work done and it was incredible. So good that it won an award that year for best issue in a series. Everyone bought one, everyone heard about it...you know the Spawn gets mistaken for Santa Claus.

Inside art credit? Todd McFarlane.

Studis artists are great thing don't get me wrong. But credit where credit is due.

Man I could on for days about the Rise and Fall of all that was comic goodness, brought to you by Mr Pompus and The Bad Man.

[Blue]

Here I am...doo, doo, doo...look at me...doo, doo, doo. Nice sig quote Paragonalpha.

I want all of you Haters to fess up. Who bought X-Force whatever the heck # it was or Youngblood #1?Not I.


Erik Larsen-cuts his teeth at DC, does Savage Dragon regularly and steadily (not my cup of tea but props to the man.) Liefeld, Infantino, Silvestri, Portacio, etc-cut their teeth at Marvel, can't hit a release schedule to save their life, totally dependent on "look, we swear we aren't actually Mutants" flavor-of-the-month books.
Coincidence, I think not.
Coincidence. Plenty of great writers and artists come from Marvel. Plenty of great writers and artists come from DC.

[radioKAOS]

Oh don't even get me started on Mr Pompus *** McFarlane.

McFarlane got his start doing covers for Batman: Year Two. Then got a gig on Infinty Inc. just prior to the Crisis-saga

I don't remember exactly what year Batman Year Two came out in, but every source I can find says 1990. I can understand you have issues with McFarlane, but that point still stands that in 1984 his 'big break' came from Marvel. Regardless, he's known as a Marvel artist moreso than a DC artist.


Some really good work. But Toddy got all full of himself when he got the gig on the Incredible Hulk, working with Peter David. The writing on that book was incredible and McFarlane started taking ALL of the success.

When he got to do the new Spiderman series I though hmmmm maybe it will be okay. But it was craptastic. And the fanboys ate it up.

When McFarlane defaulted on his Marvel Contract to move to Image I wasn't surprised.

It's ok, I'm jealous of Todd too.

I'm by no means saying the guy can do no wrong, just saying that he's a very hard working artist. And he could get a book out on time. And he's 'from Marvel' as opposed to being from DC.


I had a friend who got a job working for McFarlane's studio. Basically to do inking and some filler art. Well Todd got behind on an issue of Spawn (go figure) and sent the breakdowns to my friend to "finish pencilling and inking".

My friend had less than 2 weeks to get the entire book done. He busted his ***, got the work done and it was incredible. So good that it won an award that year for best issue in a series. Everyone bought one, everyone heard about it...you know the Spawn gets mistaken for Santa Claus.

Inside art credit? Todd McFarlane.

Studis artists are great thing don't get me wrong. But credit where credit is due.

Man I could on for days about the Rise and Fall of all that was comic goodness, brought to you by Mr Pompus and The Bad Man.

Well there's no doubt people do things like that, and none of us are angels. I know I've pushed work onto underlings when the deadlines got tough. I think the majority of us would do the same. Does that make it right that your friend didn't get proper credit? No, of course it doesn't.

[Blue]

His break finally came when Todd accepted an offer from Marvel/Epic Comics in March 1984, pencilling "Scorpio Rose," an 11-page backup story in the comic book Coyote.I have Scoprio Rose Issues 1 & 2 somewhere. I barely even remembered the character until you said the name.

[radioKAOS]

Coincidence. Plenty of great writers and artists come from Marvel. Plenty of great writers and artists come from DC.

Actually, this is a much better way to put the point I am trying to make.

[ParagonAlpha]

Hey everythings good.. as long as we don't lose sight of the fact that Rob Liefield SUCKS.

[radioKAOS]

Hey everythings good.. as long as we don't lose sight of the fact that Rob Liefield SUCKS.

Yeah, I think I'd have to actually lose my sight in order to lose sight of that fact.

Even then I may be haunted by Juggy's teeth.

[Enforcer84]

Here I am...doo, doo, doo...look at me...doo, doo, doo. Nice sig quote Paragonalpha.

I want all of you Haters to fess up. Who bought X-Force whatever the heck # it was or Youngblood #1? I have both, but they came from the quarter bin because I wanted to see if they were as bad as I remembered. They were worse.

Erik Larsen-cuts his teeth at DC, does Savage Dragon regularly and steadily (not my cup of tea but props to the man.) Liefeld, Infantino, Silvestri, Portacio, etc-cut their teeth at Marvel, can't hit a release schedule to save their life, totally dependent on "look, we swear we aren't actually Mutants" flavor-of-the-month books.
Coincidence, I think not.
Did you see the horror that was Larson's run on Spiderman? I think not.

[Enforcer84]

I don't remember exactly what year Batman Year Two came out in, but every source I can find says 1990. I can understand you have issues with McFarlane, but that point still stands that in 1984 his 'big break' came from Marvel. Regardless, he's known as a Marvel artist moreso than a DC artist.



It's ok, I'm jealous of Todd too.

I'm by no means saying the guy can do no wrong, just saying that he's a very hard working artist. And he could get a book out on time. And he's 'from Marvel' as opposed to being from DC.



Well there's no doubt people do things like that, and none of us are angels. I know I've pushed work onto underlings when the deadlines got tough. I think the majority of us would do the same. Does that make it right that your friend didn't get proper credit? No, of course it doesn't.
And Todd, suck on a stick too. And he's a prick from all I've heard. But that's just hearsay and my opinion.

[hooligan x]

While we are talking about sucktacular art, let me tell you about Ron Frenz. Man that dude's run on Thor was like a year long dental appointment, I was working at a comic shop and two guys asked me what I thought about Frenz's art. I said it was crappy and derivtive. One of them started laughing and the other said "Don't you think it's an homage to Kirby?"
I said "Homage is French for rip-off."
This guy's buddy was cracking up. Mr. Homage went to the counter to buy his stuff and paid with a credit card.

Issued to a Mr. Rn Frenz.

Ooops.

I also tailed Michael Golden for an hour because I thought he was a shoplifter. He was a very cool guy and he signed my Micronauts annual.

Mike Zeck was the best celeb customer you could ever want. He would pick up his file and bullshoot for an hour or so. Once, I asked him when he was gonna get a 501 jeans commercial and he roled his eyes and said "If you can't say something nice..."
I wish I still had that Captain America poster he did. It got torn in a move at some point. Dag.

[Blue]

I also tailed Michael Golden for an hour because I thought he was a shoplifter. He was a very cool guy and he signed my Micronauts annual.
Met Michael Golden at a con probably 20 years ago. He did a panel and, frankly, seemed pretty darn full of himself.

But I do like the guy's art.

[GestaltBennie]

If we ignore Liefeld, maybe he'll go away.

[hooligan x]

I DID ignore Liefeld. And he ended up screwing up my favorite comic book! He did it to the New Mtants and he's looking to do it to Teen Titans, which will be cancelled in a few issues and rebooted as T-Force!

[Enforcer84]

I DID ignore Liefeld. And he ended up screwing up my favorite comic book! He did it to the New Mtants and he's looking to do it to Teen Titans, which will be cancelled in a few issues and rebooted as T-Force!
You'd best be joking.

[Marketeer]

You'd best be joking.

Well, there was a shot-lived comic in the 80s called the "T-Force" I believe...


...given Liefeld's reputation for ripping stuff off, that makes Hooligan X's joke prediction about 1000% more likely...


:rolleyes:

[Blue]

Rob Liefeld, Go! (To the Tune of Teen Titans, Go!)

When you want bad art you know who to call, Rob Liefeld
Heads turned backards, which way do they go? Rob Liefeld
Grimacing like they've got hemmeroids
Breasts like pumpkins, even on boys
Teeth in the thousands, these guys really bite!

Rob Liefeld, Go!

(Anyone care to take verse 2?)

[mikesama]

So this weekend when I was enptying out my comic box at the local comic book store I talked to the owner and mentioned Teen Titans and Liefeld and we had a few good laughs at Liefelds drawing ability. He told me about the one time he met Liefeld back in the early 90s when the guy basically picked up $600 in merchandice and told the guy "I'll give you 60 for it all" and proceded to try to get the guys banned when they wouldn't hand over the merchandice for 90% off.

[casualplayer]

Did you see the horror that was Larson's run on Spiderman? I think not.
I have had a long-standing love affair with The Doom Patrol. I still have mental scars from when Larson took over from Lightle on the Karma/Lodestone reboot. Then Grant Morrison and Richard Case arrived, and my patience was rewarded.

No I avoided that Spidertravesty like the plague. Not my cup of tea.

[Blue]

I think this is interesting, and it not only inlcudes Liefeld's history, accusations, etc., but also an artistic criticism: http://www.answers.com/topic/rob-liefeld

My apology to Hermit; It *does* include that horrible Cap picture.

[wanderer68]

It's for only 2 issues, It's for only 2 issues, It's for only 2 issues, It's for only 2 issues, thats tolerate Liefield mantra

[Log-Man]

I think this is interesting, and it not only inlcudes Liefeld's history, accusations, etc., but also an artistic criticism: http://www.answers.com/topic/rob-liefeld

My apology to Hermit; It *does* include that horrible Cap picture.
"Trivia
...Liefeld marketed the action figure of Youngblood's archer character, Shaft, as "Rob Liefeld's Shaft: 7 Inches, fully poseable," an unintentional double entendre."

Simply marvelous... :lol:

[Blue]

That was my highlight too :)

[Mutant for Hire]

I'm really trying to figure out how someone who is as crappy an artist as Liefeld is could get in the door of Marvel or DC in the first place. I'm sure there were dozens of artists far more talented submitting their work.

[Log-Man]

I'm really trying to figure out how someone who is as crappy an artist as Liefeld is could get in the door of Marvel or DC in the first place. I'm sure there were dozens of artists far more talented submitting their work.
I think it's because when you first glance at it or see it out of the corner of your eye your brain flashes "...Art Adams?" It is only after you look at it square on and see the twisted masses of flesh that he has actually drawn that your brain says "Nope. Just some ******* who thinks he's Art Adams."

[Enforcer84]

Back in the Megaton days, I enjoyed Larson's work, I liked his alien and that's where Dragon got his start. Then he followed Todd MacFarlane on Spiderman and seemingly wanted to parody MacFarlane and has been doing it ever since. I kind of like his stories and savage dragon is pretty cool as long as he doesn't draw it.

[Mutant for Hire]

I think it's because when you first glance at it or see it out of the corner of your eye your brain flashes "...Art Adams?" It is only after you look at it square on and see the twisted masses of flesh that he has actually drawn that your brain says "Nope. Just some ******* who thinks he's Art Adams."
All I can think of is that he has some interesting photographs of one of the editor and some farm animals myself.

[aylwin13]

All I can think of is that he has some interesting photographs of one of the editor and some farm animals myself.
It's the kneepads, man, the kneepads. :D

[ghost-angel]

I think this is interesting, and it not only inlcudes Liefeld's history, accusations, etc., but also an artistic criticism: http://www.answers.com/topic/rob-liefeld

My apology to Hermit; It *does* include that horrible Cap picture.
The best part was the overhead of the Capt. America image ... wow, that had me in stitches.

[ParagonAlpha]

I'm really trying to figure out how someone who is as crappy an artist as Liefeld is could get in the door of Marvel or DC in the first place. I'm sure there were dozens of artists far more talented submitting their work.

DC???
I can totally see the Art Adams tie-in. Longshot had just gone ballistic at Marvel and DC needed a hit. Barbara and Karl Kessel talked DC bigwigs into doing a Hawk and Dove series. If my memory is right Liefield di the pencils and Karl inked them and it looked alot like Art Adams work. I do remember Hawk having thighs as big as Volkswagons though. And Doves head was really oddly shaped. But I bought it because of Hawk and Dove.

Marvel???
Two words for you. Jim Shooter.

Ol JS left Marvel in such a crappy mess that his replacement, Tom DeFalco would have sold dead babies if it would have meant Marvel sales.


I may seem bitter about all of this but I believe I have a right to be. I've been reading comics for nearly 30 years now, having to defend myself against misanthropic school bullies, vapid teeny boopers girls, pot smoking thugs and ignorant people in general, for my fandom.

I feel that I read classic comics, comics with great stories and art. Visual Novels so to speak.

I remember the first comic I ever bought with my own money. Avengers #: The Collector had just captured abunch of Avengers and they managed to free themselves. Just before they could question the Collector as to why a bolt of energy blew him away, leading the Avengers to battle Korvac.
(Hehehe funny: Jim Shooter wrote the most dynamic comics of my childhood.)

The Avengers had a member called the Beast. I thought he was the coolest at 6 years old. When I found out he was an X-Man and they had their own comic, I was once again hooked.

I want my childhood back. :)

[Roth]

I collected comics from about 80 to about hmmm 1999-2000 or so... then I got married and had kids and could either afford the family or the comics... so it goes. I had the entire run of the New Mutants, and when this new (to me) artist started on what would be their last few issues I thought "Hmmm not bad" and then Thunderbird grew, all the medium sized men started to look the same in body type, all the women as well I thought "Who the hell is editing this book?"

I bought the first few Issues of X-Force because I like the characters and I hoped it would be good. Then of course it sucked.

Flash forward to a few years later. I had stopped buying the X titles because of the horrid things that they were doing to the characters and the team and the world in general (Operation Zero Tolerance any one.... or worse... the horror that is Onslaught) And then they killed the Avengers and the FF and Cap. And then rebooted them in the Heroes Reborn Uni. I collected the entire HR run of the FF and Cap, and as I remember Leifeld drew most of the Cap run (if not all) I liked it... I liked the writing and the art... and I thought "Wow... give Liefeld a good editor and he is a good artist..." Or maybe he was just sick or something....

[Captain Pants]

I realize I'm a dissenting voice here, but what is so wrong with his art? I've read enough to understand everyone's main gripes, such as everyone gaining 50 lbs of muscle, a scowl, and a wider mouth. But every artist has his own way of doing things.

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.

Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.

-- Cappy

[Hermit]

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

-- Cappy

Actually, I've disliked his artistic creations for a long time, long before it was 'popular' to do so.

[death tribble]

Here I have to disagree with you. In part because it applied to another artist. When Jae Lee did the WildCATS trilogy he superannuated the torso of the Grifter character so that it looked completely ridiculous. And had him bare chested under the trademark coat for no readily apparnat reason. He also made Zealot look weak instead of the strong character she had been portrayed as.
Now as I feel about Jae, other people feel about Rob.
If you take a character and portray them in a way that makes no sense then why shouldn't you be slated ?

Mind you in Liefeld's case there is no forgiveness for creating Cable. None at all. Especially when you keep trying to export the character to other companies or bring it back again.
That and making the female characters dress in g strings and little else when fighting an enemy.

[death tribble]

Actually, I've disliked his artistic creations for a long time, long before it was 'popular' to do so.
You have more reason than anyone here to hate him. He violated Captain America. And he has yet to be indicted for that offence.

[Captain Pants]

I recognize that some, like Hermit, may just dislike his art. Looking further into his background, I can see he's made some serious mistakes from the business side of things that has alienated readers, such as the infamous Captain America picture or his plagiarism. But looking strictly at the Teen Titans artwork given above, I didn't see a problem other than a few artistic liberties in complete line with his known style... which is popular to hate now, I realize.

To each his own.

- Cappy

[Mutant for Hire]

All right, Captain Pants, let me give you a counter-example: Byrne.

Byrne gets flamed a lot on the boards for the things he's done to a lot of characters he's gotten his hands on. However there are comparitively few flames about his artwork because most people consider him a professional artist. Perhaps nothing brilliant to write home about, but his artwork doesn't get in the way of the comic.

Liefeld is another story. He's a bad artist. And yes, I'm a worse artist, I admit it. On the other hand I'm not trying to pass myself off as a professional artist. Nor are most of the people on these boards, with the exception of the artists who've done work for HERO games (and there's a bit of difference between illustration for RPG books and doing full comic book illustrations, which I think most of the artists here would conceed). However one does not need to be a professional writer to critique writing, nor does one need to be a professional artist to critique art.

Liefeld has a very poor sense of anatomy. His bodies are all distorted. The proportions are all wrong and they're typically contorted. You can call it stylistic, except for the fact that I've never seen him do a body that wasn't physically distorted, even in single panel 'still' shots. I have yet to see a piece of art from him that wouldn't get a 'D' in a regular art class, which I think he needs to enroll in.

There are artists who've done stylistic artwork, like Bill Sienkiewicz, but he's also shown himself capable of doing straight illustration. And his stylizations show that he has some sense of how to do it. Liefeld just looks like he does bad traces of existing artwork (and there are plenty of examples of cases where he has ripped off scenes from other artists). Or the effect that he's going for is completely off for what the scene is all supposed to be about.

Then there's his writing, the less is said of which, the better, but needless to say most of my criticisms of Byrne pale in contrast to Liefeld.

[hooligan x]

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.
My upstairs neighbor may be a better surgeon than I am, but I don't want him taking out my appendix. Liefeld's art is professional only because he is paid to produce it. His "style" is ameturish. It is in no way high quality.


It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.
I hated his work when I fist saw it, at the height of his popularity. I have evaluated his art and found no merit.


I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.
Clean, as in no jelly stains or coffee rings, I agree. The body proportions are not remotely representitive of human anatomy. Even worse than the proportions is the poses he draws. Most would be fatal to a human being.


Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.
I wouldn't like the regular Titans book to go Go! but it doesn't mean they need to keep this hack employed. I would prefer to see the art quality of the previous 26 issues continue and to leave the '90s behind us

[ParagonAlpha]

My dislike goes beyond a dislike of his art. I knew him before populartity.

As for him being a better artist than me. I realized my artistic limitations and instead of continuing the "plagarism"/theft of others panels and line copying of artwork, I devoted myself to other persuits.

The Bad Man simply continues to lift artwork from others. And poorly.

[Captain Pants]

Again, I fail to see the unrealistic body proportion in the TT scans provided earlier. Certainly Liefield has published over the top artwork with unrealistic proportions in the past, but in this case I think he's on the mark, and a good sight better than some other professional artists I've seen.

Perhaps the popularity to hate him isn't really the issue... it may just be that emotion is interfering with fair judgment. What I keep hearing is, "I've hated him before, so I hate him now."

All I'm saying is that his recent TT artwork doesn't seem that bad, and that maybe, just maybe, this one time, we could cut him a break.

- Cappy

[hooligan x]

Since this isn't the NGD, we can agree to disagree. If you like the art, feel free to purchase the comic. I still haven't decided if I will purchase it. I know it's gonna suck, but I got so much freaking rep from the last read-along...

[Enforcer84]

I realize I'm a dissenting voice here, but what is so wrong with his art? I've read enough to understand everyone's main gripes, such as everyone gaining 50 lbs of muscle, a scowl, and a wider mouth. But every artist has his own way of doing things.

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.

Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.

-- Cappy
If he could keep costumes consistant page to page and panel to panel, I'd be a lot happier. And it would be nice if women didn't have the perma arch to their backs.

[Nucleon]

I just picked up my overflowing file at Clockwork Comics and was slapped in the gob by the suckbomb called Tean Titans. Is anyone else upset by this mini-arc of blech?

Booooaaaaaaoooooofff, that's not so baaaadd.

Nucleon remembers much more horific stuff, especially in the "Heroes Reborn" debacle. He would even venture that Liefield has somehow learned to draw since then.

This guy is almost single-handedly responsible for the Iron Age, for the Immortals' sake! Give him a chance... and a crappy comic to draw. Why not "New Avengers" for that matter? He would be complementary with Bendis "nothing is ever happening" style, for what Nucleon thinks.

He guess one god's meat is another one's poison...

:saturn:

[Blue]

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread.
Certailny better than I am. But then I'm not trashing beloved and popular works; I'm merely defiling my own characters.

[Enforcer84]

Certailny better than I am. But then I'm not trashing beloved and popular works; I'm merely defiling my own characters.
And I'd have to disagree the the Captain of Pants.
I'd rather look at any of the art here

[Nucleon]

Remember, you asked...

Sorry, all. She asked.

Brrhhmm. That's what Nucleon was writing about.

Well, Still trying to do the Devil's advocate, maybe "cap" was, at the time, stuck in the sixth dimension (which Nucleon occasionnaly visits), where people appeared both sideways and front-facing... anyone?



(Ho well... Why does Nucleon even tries anyway...)

[bblackmoor]

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've hated Liefield's art on its own merits for many years. I have seen worse, of course, but rarely have those artists become popular enough for their names to be known.

[bblackmoor]

I never noticed the mouths before. Check out this one. Frame 1, both characters heads turned same direction exactly, mouths in same position; Frame 3, everybody eyes front, same epxression; Frame 4, everbody mouths open.

Here's another good example of that "technique":

http://www.robliefeld.net/titans17.htm

[ChaosDrgn]

Personally I like Byrne. To me he has a nice golden/silver age feel still, when comics were ment to be taken for fun.

[bblackmoor]

Personally I like Byrne.

I do, too. I think he has a good grasp of motion and anatomy, and he manages to draw figures which are sexy yet realistic.

[Mutant for Hire]

I do, too. I think he has a good grasp of motion and anatomy, and he manages to draw figures which are sexy yet realistic.
As an artist, I think he's good. He's not jaw dropping great, but he's good. As a writer I have strong reservations about him.

Even there, Liefeld makes Byrne look good by sheer horrific contrast.

[ParagonAlpha]

A rule of thumb...

Rarely do good artists make good writers.
Rarely do good writers make good artists.

In general the two should not meet.

[ChaosDrgn]

As an artist, I think he's good. He's not jaw dropping great, but he's good. As a writer I have strong reservations about him.

Even there, Liefeld makes Byrne look good by sheer horrific contrast.

And the funny thing is, Byrne wrote/co-wrote the X-Men series that Jim lee did the artwork for. Sometimes I think he's the "Donny Osmond" of the comic book set.

[Blue]

A rule of thumb...

Rarely do good artists make good writers.
Rarely do good writers make good artists.

In general the two should not meet.
They can't all be Frank Miller ;)

[Rob Liefeld]

You guys are making me cry. I'm just trying to make a living here!
I'm going to drown my sorrows in work. I'm doing all titles for Marvel and DC next year. I have a secret method that will allow me to cop-- draw 43 titles a month!
:p

[bblackmoor]

They can't all be Frank Miller ;)

Even Frank Miller isn't Frank Miller a lot of the time.

[keithcurtis]

As per RL's style: eh. It's not as bad as many I've seen. It wouldn't ruin a comic for me.
The plagiarism is absolutely unforgivable, though.

Keith "pretty forgiving on style" Curtis

[ChaosDrgn]

You guys are making me cry. I'm just trying to make a living here!
I'm going to drown my sorrows in work. I'm doing all titles for Marvel and DC next year. I have a secret method that will allow me to cop-- draw 43 titles a month!
:p

Farm it out to art students, call it a studio and bill yourself in the title.

[Enforcer84]

They can't all be Frank Miller ;)
Not to burst your balloon, but I personally think Miller, sucks at both art and writing. :D

[Mutant for Hire]

Not to burst your balloon, but I personally think Miller, sucks at both art and writing. :D
Miller to me is very hit or miss. When he hits, he hits hard, when he misses, he misses badly. There's a bunch of his work I really like, and there's a bunch of it that just misses badly for me.

[Blue]

Not to burst your balloon, but I personally think Miller, sucks at both art and writing. :D
Didn't burst anything. Yer just wrong :D

[Enforcer84]

Didn't burst anything. Yer just wrong :D
You wish.







But when I rule the Universe I won't smite you for your incorrect beliefs.

[keithcurtis]

Ooh. Let me smite them for you, Master!

Keith "born toady" Curtis

[Tim]

You guys are making me cry.

Your title says it all.

[Enforcer84]

Ooh. Let me smite them for you, Master!

Keith "born toady" Curtis
You got it. I love a go getter.

[Mutant for Hire]

But when I rule the Universe I won't smite you for your incorrect beliefs. When I ascend to godlike powers over all of creation, I'll smite whoever I feel like it, though in Liefeld's case, I'm probably not going to simply smite him but instead stick him someplace unpleasant until he learns to:

1. Draw human anatomy in proportion in natural poses
2. Learn to draw a range of body types
3. Learn to compose scenes without copying them from other people.

[gojira]

You guys are making me cry. I'm just trying to make a living here!
I'm going to drown my sorrows in work. I'm doing all titles for Marvel and DC next year. I have a secret method that will allow me to cop^H^H draw 43 titles a month!
:p

LMAO!!! :)

(Fixed the backspaces for ya!)

[Rob Liefeld]

Thanks!
Hey everyone, I've decided to announce my new project here. I'm doing a 3 part adaptation of the Lord of the Rings. I'll have to compress a lot to fit the story in, especially since I've decided to do it all in splash panels.
I think everyone will finally see the classic the way it was meant to be seen. Man-boobs on Aragorn! Wangs on Eowyn! It'll be great!
Well, naturally. It's mine.

[bblackmoor]

I'm doing a 3 part adaptation of the Lord of the Rings.

I'm looking forward to Farmer Maggot's enormous feet and sausage-shaped headgear.

[casualplayer]

All the hobbits will look like Troll, and you will never see their feet. Legolas will look like Shatterstar. Aragorn will have a cybernetic arm. Gandalf will look like he can bench press a balrog. It'll be great!

Honestly, Liefeld's stuff is no more stylized than some of Kirby's stuff. The important difference is that Kirby could do anatomically correct work and Liefeld can only draw "comic-style." All he can draw is limited perspective fights and poses. It's definitely sour grapes wondering how the heck he managed to break into comics when the rest of us labor in obscurity, but what can you do? My liking of a comic is usually the kiss of death; I've only rarely been able to recognize "popular."

Try to imagine the circumstances that led to Liefeld getting the Titans gig. Was the editor clueless as to ol' Robby's rep? Did he think it would increase sales? Methinks someone showed up looking for work and the Teen Titans drew short straw. Could have been worse. Imagine his Batman!

[KA.]

When I ascend to godlike powers over all of creation, I'll smite whoever I feel like it, though in Liefeld's case, I'm probably not going to simply smite him but instead stick him someplace unpleasant until he learns to:

1. Draw human anatomy in proportion in natural poses
2. Learn to draw a range of body types
3. Learn to compose scenes without copying them from other people.

When I ascend to godlike power, I will put Liefeld into the Inflato-Mangler.
A machine that will force his body into the shape of one of his drawings, then hold it there so that he can feel what he has been doing to characters all these years.

KA.

[Zeropoint]

The main thing I noticed when looking at the Teen Titans pages was that each panel seems completely unrelated to the others--there is no sense of events flowing from one panel to the next. I couldn't tell at all what was supposed to be happening. I've read plenty of good comics, and that seems like a major problem by comparison.

Oh, and regarding someone being a good writer and a good artist at the same time, I would refer you to Japanese comics. Most of them are written and drawn by the same person, and most of them are pretty good. Well, the ones that get imported are, anyway.

Zeropoint

[Mutant for Hire]

Oh, and regarding someone being a good writer and a good artist at the same time, I would refer you to Japanese comics. Most of them are written and drawn by the same person, and most of them are pretty good. Well, the ones that get imported are, anyway.
There are good writer/artists around. It's rare to find them at DC or Marvel because both of them tend to favor the assembly line version of producing a comic book for practical reasons. If you go to the independents, it's a lot more common to find someone who both writes the comic book and draws it, and there are some good comics there.

If you count webcomics as comics, then the number goes up.

[bblackmoor]

If you go to the independents, it's a lot more common to find someone who both writes the comic book and draws it, and there are some good comics there. If you count webcomics as comics, then the number goes up.

Scott McCloud (http://www.scottmccloud.com/comics/zot/) is a good example of both.

[Nucleon]

Thanks!
Hey everyone, I've decided to announce my new project here. I'm doing a 3 part adaptation of the Lord of the Rings. I'll have to compress a lot to fit the story in, especially since I've decided to do it all in splash panels.
I think everyone will finally see the classic the way it was meant to be seen. Man-boobs on Aragorn! Wangs on Eowyn! It'll be great!
Well, naturally. It's mine.

As long as Nucleon, or everybody else, is not forced to buy any, He has no problem with that. He might even take a look at it for curiosity.

Oh. And if Nucleon had any rep points left, he would give one to you, for sheer grace under adversity.

:ugly:

[Mutant for Hire]

When I ascend to godlike power, I will put Liefeld into the Inflato-Mangler.
A machine that will force his body into the shape of one of his drawings, then hold it there so that he can feel what he has been doing to characters all these years.

Hmm. Actually, that's probably a good idea for a punishment until he learns to draw his characters properly.

[Badger]

KA, you stole my idea on what should be done to Liefeld. But I will let it go. In fact if I achieve god-like power before you do, I'll even let you throw the switch, Ok?;)

And I admit my artistic ability sucks too. But then I dont get paid for it. Course I had a friend in high school, who liked to draw. And well it was better than Liefeld's stuff. :(

[gojira]

Aragorn will have a cybernetic arm.

Damn it, now I want to buy it.

[Badger]

But the orcs will have like 100 perfect teeth. Just doesnt seem right.

[Tim]

Thanks!
Hey everyone, I've decided to announce my new project here. I'm doing a 3 part adaptation of the Lord of the Rings. I'll have to compress a lot to fit the story in, especially since I've decided to do it all in splash panels.
I think everyone will finally see the classic the way it was meant to be seen. Man-boobs on Aragorn! Wangs on Eowyn! It'll be great!
Well, naturally. It's mine.


I'll repeat;
Your title "Incompetent Normal" says it all.

[Susano]

Scott McCloud (http://www.scottmccloud.com/comics/zot/) is a good example of both.

Mike Mignola ("Hellboy") is another.

[robbneu]

Okay, I finally picked up my small comics collection and eagerly read the new Teen Titans comic... since it's become one of my favorite series, and... ugh. I don't mind Liefeld as much as some of the other posters here, but I have to echo Zeropoint's statement about how none of the pages in the issue seemed related to anything else in the comic. On more than one occasion, I actually turned back to check that I didn't accidentally miss a page or two. Not sure who is to blame here, Liefeld or Simone, but the entire issue was choppy to the point of being almost incomprehesible.

Also, aside from Liefeld's stylistic touches (huge thighs, tiny mouths and eyes, enormous amounts of hair), I felt some of the characters were protrayed very poorly. Tim Drake, at least when I've seen him, has been fairly small and even thin, nothing like the muscle-bound hulk he looks like in TT27. Liefeld really made an effort to make Raven look like her old self, especially in her "secret ID," but Cyborg was a complete miss. Not only did he look like he was dressed as Cable for Halloween, but his dialog was all off:

"Kid, no one wants to hurt you. But you threaten us again and we'll find a new place to put those grenades of yours."

That doesn't sound like the Cyborg I know. And:

"That skinny girl's in love with gutterballs, I swear. It hurts to look..."

Huh? I can't see Cyborg refering to any of his teammates as "that skinny girl," least of all someone he has fought alongside for years.

Maybe I'm just getting too old for this "kinetic" storytelling, but I was disappointed in Teen Titans #27 for a lot of reasons, Liefield's artwork only being a part of it.

Robb

[BlackSword]

Good news everyone

The second part of the story came out. Why is this good news? Because now Liefeld's run on the Titans is done. I was disappointed by Simone's story, I like her writing in Birds of Prey, but the Titans story seems like it was thrown together to fill two issues. It was something I might do if I had zero other ideas and had to throw a game together for an evening. Hopefully the return to the regular writers/artist has the Titans wake up from a badly drawn dream.

[hooligan x]

Well, it is indeed out. On my page by page readalong for #27, I said "See ya in 60". This was supposed to imply that I would skip #28. Of course, #28 was so packed full of Leifeldy goodness that is was more than a month late, f-ing up the fall crossover continuity.

My comic shop has a metric f-ton of issue 27 left and I asked if he had ordered heavier because of RL and gotten burned. He said he ordered his usual amount and most file customers put it back on the shelf. I believe late books are returnable, so he may luck out on 28.

[ChaosDrgn]

Good news everyone

The second part of the story came out. Why is this good news? Because now Liefeld's run on the Titans is done. I was disappointed by Simone's story, I like her writing in Birds of Prey, but the Titans story seems like it was thrown together to fill two issues.

IMHO I liked the second half more then the first. I did dislike the way Liefield drew Raven though. Most of the issues have shown her to still be a "baby faced" girl and he was apeing her straight from Perez's run, long thin face and all. I like the Titans (still wish it was YJ but oh well) but can only give it 2 1/2 starts

[hooligan x]

Whoo hoo kiddies! Time again to READ ALONG WITH GAIL AND ROBBIE!

Grab your copy of issue 28 and let’s go!

Pg1. Robin stands and ponders why his forearms are so short.

Hey, is the team standing on a giant baked potato? Chaos is wacky!


Pg2. Another thing Rob has never seen: a woman’s lips.

Pg3. Things can’t be too bad if Tim has time to change his belt buckle.

Hawk: “Urrrg! My pointy fingers are useless for wiping!”

Vic: “My lips and nostrils can’t decide who is tinier so they keep switching sizes! And something smells stinky again!”

Pg4. Hey, the Chaos realm is a cheap Van Gogh print! Let’s get that one-eared f***er!

The Titans Tower looks good. Robbie must have found his ruler.

Pg5. Finally, an ad! Man, I gotta go see that Wallace and Grommet flick. And buy some gum. Wow, what an efficient advertisement!

Pg6. Man, Chaos makes your hips weird! But Kestrel likes it! That’s one many-teethed happy smiling dude!

Pg7. DICE DNA Integrated Cybernetic Enterprises? Can you anagram an anagram? This game looks dumber than rolling a ball around Tokyo to make stars.

Pg8. Them wacky Chaos mirrors make your ears invisible!

Look kids! Backgrounds!

Pg9. Next week, on the Y Files…

Pg10.Pirates and Pith helmets? I am sold!

Pg11. Vic’s thighs keep poking through the cyber legs. That’s gotta be cold.

Vic: “Let me switch to cyber-thermos! Who wants coffee?”

The only page where everyone doesn’t look like they smell something stinky and Gail has to put in a line about how it’s stinky!

Pg12. Soooooo Gar’s biggest fear is being a tall, poorly drawn, fat guy?
Mmmmmm Misery juice. Let’s all stop and let that sink in.
















MISERY JUICE? ARE YOU ****ING JOKING? Why not call it “Cruel-Aid”?
Heeeeeyyy, Cruel-Aid! Ohhh YEAH!


Pg13. Big League Chew. Brought to you by the makers of CrackRockies and Ciggaradicals!



Pg14. KILIWOG!!! Sorry, no Gnort.


Pg15.Henceforth, ”FORLORDKESTRELI’LLBURSTTHEMLIKE MELONS!” will be my battlecry.

WTF happened to Vic’s arm?!! No, seriously. It’s like a glowing silver Baskin-Robins taster spoon!

Pg16. Hey, if Cassie can have man-junk, Bart can have girl’s glowing globes.

For a Chaos Realm, they sure do gots some regularly shaped rocks. There like Vicks Menthol cough drops carved out of poo.

Ahhh, run, it’s a green Wampa!

Pg17. Pull my finger NOW, toughguy!

Pg18. It’s a final showdown! Big teeth vs tiny teeth!

Hey, it’s a guy who looks absolutely nothing like Mr Drake!

Pg19. Oh, no. My bad. Tim and his dad have the same nose. ..









(wait for it…)












As every other character Leifeld has ever drawn.


They MUST be related.


Pg20. Once again, witness the Cossack Dance of Doom!

Hey, our cheap Van Gogh print is now a cheap Surrat print!

Pg21. Does Yu-Gi-Oh! Really need the exclamation point? Does anyone reall pronounce it with that much vigor?


Pg22. “Lopsided boobies, attack!”


Pg.23. Yu-Gi-Oh.
See, just as good with out the exclamation point.

Pg24. Kestrel: “Now I will crush one of your many belt buckles under my heel!”

Dude, your Cruel-Aid is jumping around like Jurassic Park…

Did Tim just say “posse”? Maybe if a more punctual penciler drew this book, “posse” would still be current slang. Wait, no it wouldn’t.


Pg25. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! “You bet Jurassic”! You kill me, Gadzookie.

OK, do these chaos birds have four ribbons or six? Or is that part of the chaos?

Pg26.Daft eejit? Just where is this broad from? Is it London, Manchester, Dublin, or Guam?

Ow, Cassie got Gene Colaned!

Pg27. I’m waiting for the 7 Magnificent cartoon.

Pg28. More pirates! This game is rated…….














(Wait for it……)















T for Teen.

Gotcha!


Pg29. Wait, wow did he catch Bart? It looks like Bart just put his neck in Kestrel’s hand like he was Private Pyle and Kestrel was R Lee Ermey

Pow! Take that. Nerve cluster!
Good thing Kestrel never saw Serenity!


Pg30. Kestrel: “You were like a daughter to me! A daughter I’ve only known for three hours and have spent much of that time threatening to kill! Why?”


Pg31. All: “So the battle’s done
And we kinda won
So we sound our victory cheer….”


Pg32&33. Can you have a Marvel ad in a DC book? My brain hurts now.


Pg34. Cory wasn’t even in this fight and she still got her ribcage messed up!

Pg35. Raven’s hair is longer…shorter…longer…longer…

Well, that was worth waiting two and a half months for, huh kiddies? If DC hires Leifeld to draw more books, I hope they give him enough time to do it. Or maybe they can just publish the crap I doodled on the back of my 7th grade geography notebook, It’s ready to go now.

[Blue]

Haven't seen it, but I feel like I have :thumbup:

But then if I've seen one Rob Liefeld book, mayb I have seen it.

Quick: The rest of ya do something funny so I can rep hooligan again.

[Haerandir]

Pg21. Does Yu-Gi-Oh! Really need the exclamation point? Does anyone reall pronounce it with that much vigor?


Just the guy who does the vocals for the Yu-Gi-Oh! theme song.

Have you ever watched that show, BTW? It's a trip. For a bunch of people who've dedicated their lives to playing a card game, they're sure surprised whenever someone actually, you know, reads his cards and builds a deck based on what they do.

[austenandrews]

Have you ever watched that show, BTW? It's a trip. For a bunch of people who've dedicated their lives to playing a card game, they're sure surprised whenever someone actually, you know, reads his cards and builds a deck based on what they do.
I'm just astounded they made a hit show that's basically characters standing around talking game mechanics. Apparently kids don't care about action, as long as there's dramatic music and dramatic camera angles and dramatic slow pans and dramatically whizzing backgrounds. Weird.

[bblackmoor]

I'm just astounded they made a hit show that's basically characters standing around talking game mechanics. Apparently kids don't care about action, as long as there's dramatic music and dramatic camera angles and dramatic slow pans and dramatically whizzing backgrounds. Weird.

There's another one where the characters are all basically playing Everquest. It makes about as much sense.

[Lord Mhoram]

Wednesday, at the comic shop I work at a young man (just turned 12 I believe) had started reading the teen titans about 5 issues ago, because he like the TV show, and likes the comic better (good taste there). It's his first comic book.

So I've got the comics spread out on the counter getting ready to file the special orders, and he comes in and exclaims "hey the Titans, it's been too long" picks up the issue, looks at the cover and says "Hey, when are they gonna get rid of this crappy artist, I haven't even read the last issue it was so bad". When I told him this was last issue he cheered.

This youngster will grow up to a man with good taste and discernment - his first comic, and he already thinks Liefeld is Crap.

[aylwin13]

Wednesday, at the comic shop I work at a young man (just turned 12 I believe) had started reading the teen titans about 5 issues ago, because he like the TV show, and likes the comic better (good taste there). It's his first comic book.

So I've got the comics spread out on the counter getting ready to file the special orders, and he comes in and exclaims "hey the Titans, it's been too long" picks up the issue, looks at the cover and says "Hey, when are they gonna get rid of this crappy artist, I haven't even read the last issue it was so bad". When I told him this was last issue he cheered.

This youngster will grow up to a man with good taste and discernment - his first comic, and he already thinks Liefeld is Crap. I hope you made sure to have him tell all his friends. :D

[Tim]

My first thought when seeing Kestrel and followers for the first time this ish... "When did Void move from the WildCATs to DC comics?"

[Bluefire]

OK, I know that people get kinda obsessed with their opinion of artist for comic books. I can deal with that. Just like I can deal with various artists styles.

Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy. Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?

Not ragging on anyone or trying to be a fanboy, but give the man credit where its due. He makes a living drawing comics, someone thinks he is good.

-Bluefire
"I'm getting to old for this...."

[Susano]

OK, I know that people get kinda obsessed with their opinion of artist for comic books. I can deal with that. Just like I can deal with various artists styles.

Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy. Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?

Not ragging on anyone or trying to be a fanboy, but give the man credit where its due. He makes a living drawing comics, someone thinks he is good.

Why? The quote from Galaxy Quest sums it up: "It doesn't take a good actor to recognize a bad one." And as the consumer, the person who will ultimately buy the end product, we, as a whole, have the right to express our opinion. Be it of an artist, writer, director, actor, or what have you. Because if we feel the material we are supposed to spend our money on isn't worth it, then we have the right to say so. As for Liefeld, he has repeatedly shown a lack of talent to go along with his over-inflated sense of self worth. The man simply is not as good as he thinks he is, or as the comics companies think we think he is. The end result is he turns more people off than he attracts (or so I hope).

[bblackmoor]

As for Liefeld, he has repeatedly shown a lack of of talent to go along with his over-inflated sense of self worth. The man simply is not as good as he thinks he is, or as the comics companies think we think he is. The end result is he turns more people off than he attracts (or so I hope).

I have no idea what he thinks of himself. I assume that he actually does try to draw well, or at least that he tries to be true to his own style, whatever he thinks that is. So on the subject of "how good he thinks he is", I have no opinion.

I also don't know if he turns people off more than he turns people on. Art is such a personal thing. One person's Brom is another's Nagle.

Me, I think Liefeld's art is atrocious. But I hope that he enjoys his works and that he values the opportunities he's been given.

[Susano]

I have no idea what he thinks of himself. I assume that he actually does try to draw well, or at least that he tries to be true to his own style, whatever he thinks that is. So on the subject of "how good he thinks he is", I have no opinion.

IIRC, correctly, he has bragged about never attending any sort of art school/college.


I also don't know if he turns people off more than he turns people on. Art is such a personal thing. One person's Brom is another's Nagle.

Based on this thread and a few others like it (as well as comments on the net), he is no longer thought to be all that great of an artist.



Me, I think Liefeld's art is atrocious. But I hope that he enjoys his works and that he values the opportunities he's been given.

As do I. As to enjoyment? I certainly can believe he enjoys his job and his projects, but as an artist, he holds no interest to me.

[Lord Mhoram]

IIRC, correctly, he has bragged about never attending any sort of art school/college.

I'd heard that, and one time when watching the special edition of The Crow DVD there is an interview with O'Barr. And when he talks about studying anatomy and realism so that when he does comics that are exaggerated, he knows what the real thing should look like. Then he commented about artists that have never studied art or anatomy, and all they know was comic books, and when they exaggerate an already exaggerated body style you get something that is just bad art.
I always felt that was a dig at Liefeld. :)

[hooligan x]

Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy.


I bought that right. For two dollars and fifty cents an issue.


Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?

I don't need to draw better than Liefeld to expect a quality product for my money. I don't need to be a better mechanic than the guy who works on my car to expect my brakes to work.

I am probably a better bouncer than Liefeld, but if he saw me let a seventeen year old into my bar, he has the right to criticize my work.


Not ragging on anyone or trying to be a fanboy, but give the man credit where its due. He makes a living drawing comics, someone thinks he is good.

It puzzles me how he does make a living. Besides his crappy anatomy and obvious plagerism, he can't turn in his work on time. He couldn't make deadline on two consecutive fill-in issues! The fill-ins were so late that the regular creative team's work is bottlenecked in publication. Issue 29 should have been out by now and #30 out in a week or so.

That the big two publishers keep giving him a chance is baffling.



IIRC, correctly, he has bragged about never attending any sort of art school/college.
YDRC, Susano. Rob bragged about not attending art school in Spike Lee's Levis 501 jeans ad.

[aylwin13]

OK, I know that people get kinda obsessed with their opinion of artist for comic books. I can deal with that. Just like I can deal with various artists styles.
I like a number of different artists' styles. I can also decide what I think is good art, of a different style, and what is crap. Liefeld's art is crap, not stylistic.


Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy. Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?
I'm pretty sure that if I took my time, I could draw 10 times better; but that's beside the point. I'm not an actor, but I can tell when I'm seeing a lousy performance. Same with Liefeld's art. I'm not a professional artist, but I know it when I'm seeing lousy artwork.


Not ragging on anyone or trying to be a fanboy, but give the man credit where its due. He makes a living drawing comics, someone thinks he is good.
Yeah, but there are lot's of people getting paid for things they're lousy at. Look at "The Simple Life". Two people starring on a TV show when they have absolutely no talent, whatsoever.

[Hugh Neilson]

It puzzles me how he does make a living. Besides his crappy anatomy and obvious plagerism, he can't turn in his work on time. He couldn't make deadline on two consecutive fill-in issues! The fill-ins were so late that the regular creative team's work is bottlenecked in publication. Issue 29 should have been out by now and #30 out in a week or so.

That the big two publishers keep giving him a chance is baffling.

The Big Two always seem to have a few books horrendously behind schedule, for the past several years. Maybe "get the whole mini in the can before you even SOLICIT it when certain creators are involved" would be a good rule for them to adopt.

But the bottom line is that someone out there is buying Liefeld's work - otherwise it wouldn't sell, and the publishers are pretty quick to ditch any product that doesn't sell.

[Lord Mhoram]

The Big Two always seem to have a few books horrendously behind schedule, for the past several years. Maybe "get the whole mini in the can before you even SOLICIT it when certain creators are involved" would be a good rule for them to adopt.


Yeah. Kurt Busiek, who knows he has delays due to his health problems has started to not even solicity any Astro City until at least 2 issues are in the can, and the script for the 4th is mostly done.

But in his case, the wait is worth it.

[Lord Mhoram]

I like a number of different artists' styles. I can also decide what I think is good art, of a different style, and what is crap. Liefeld's art is crap, not stylistic.

And if Lielfeld stuff were just anatomical impossibilities, I might think stylistic choice, but when his characters' costumes are not consistent across two panels on the same Freaking Page that proves that it is just crap.

[robbneu]

Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy. Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?

I'm not sure that being able to match another person's skill at something is the requirement for providing a critique of his/her work. If that were the case, we shouldn't be able discuss the merits of movies, since we're not as accomplished as the actors, directors, producers, craft services crew, etc. The same is true for music, art, literature, fine dining, sports, architecture, the list goes on and on.

My complaint was that, as a long time fan of the Teen Titans, I found his protrayal of some of the characters to be off. Maybe even wrong. I've got a whole pile of comic books that say "Teen Titans" on the cover and as a longtime fan, I think I can voice an opinion when Robin suddenly becomes a brick, Cyborg becomes a wall, and Raven ages twenty years from the previous issue. I think I have every right to speak up when I see something that doesn't fit the characters that I've been following for almost twenty years.

Robb

[Enforcer84]

OK, I know that people get kinda obsessed with their opinion of artist for comic books. I can deal with that. Just like I can deal with various artists styles.

Regardless if you love/hate a guys style, really doesn't give you the right to trash the guy. Honestly how many of you trashing Rob, can say you draw better?

Not ragging on anyone or trying to be a fanboy, but give the man credit where its due. He makes a living drawing comics, someone thinks he is good.

-Bluefire
"I'm getting to old for this...."
are you kidding? They hire him BECAUSE we hate him. They know we'll buy it so we can point to the art and go "Look at that! It's Crap!" and forget we paid 4$ a pop for it. :D

[KA.]

are you kidding? They hire him BECAUSE we hate him. They know we'll buy it so we can point to the art and go "Look at that! It's Crap!" and forget we paid 4$ a pop for it. :D

You are wise indeed.

I think they are counting on the "Howard Stern Effect".
You know, where people who hate him listen twice as much as people who like him.

Liefeld can probably claim, correctly, to be the "most talked about artist in comics".

If we just ignore him, he will go away.

KA.