How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions?

[Hermit]

I realize this could go in the HERO system forum, but I'm more curious in the Champions sense since it plays with bigger numbers.

Let's say a player decides he thinks it would be neat if his character's DNPC gained some super powers (The better to see her in tight costumes). The DNPC was normal, but viola, 5 points are spent, and now she is "Slightly less Powerful". Assuming the GM agrees, natch.

Well, how powerful do you think "slightly less powerful" is? If the PC hero is about 365 , does that mean she can be 350 since that's still less, only slightly so? Or would 250 be more like what they meant, in your opinion?


Do any of you have a formula for determining 'slightly less' and what it means ("Take 10% off the PC's total, then minus an additional 5 points off since the PC spent some of his points on buying the disad down and that doesn't affect his 'power'" etc) or do you wing it?

[OddHat]

Mostly I wing it, if I write up the NPC. If the player asks for guidelines to write the character himself, I use the "one step down" pattern. 25 is slightly less than 50, 50 than 100, 100 than 250, etc. If I write the NPC, she has as many point as she needs to do what I want her to do, but will still be played as slightly less powerful than the PC.

[Mike W]

I think Oddhat is in the same ballpark as me. The "one step down the chart" thing is a good guideline. But especially in a supers game, I base it more on the DCs and such. Characters have guidelines that almost everyone falls into. CVs and DCs generally have a max magnitude difference of 4. So 4 CVs or 4 DCs is the range for almost everyone. Those, "slightly less powerful" will be consistently at the low end of the range for everything or possibly a step below.

[Enforcer84]

I realize this could go in the HERO system forum, but I'm more curious in the Champions sense since it plays with bigger numbers.

Let's say a player decides he thinks it would be neat if his character's DNPC gained some super powers (The better to see her in tight costumes). The DNPC was normal, but viola, 5 points are spent, and now she is "Slightly less Powerful". Assuming the GM agrees, natch.

Well, how powerful do you think "slightly less powerful" is? If the PC hero is about 365 , does that mean she can be 350 since that's still less, only slightly so? Or would 250 be more like what they meant, in your opinion?


Do any of you have a formula for determining 'slightly less' and what it means ("Take 10% off the PC's total, then minus an additional 5 points off since the PC spent some of his points on buying the disad down and that doesn't affect his 'power'" etc) or do you wing it?
You would be slightly less powerful than me. :D

[Hermit]

You would be slightly less powerful than me. :D

Your Rep envy is showing *loftily* I've read Freud, I know.


;)

[Enforcer84]

Freud was a fraud. Spent our entire class hitting on my mom.

[zornwil]

For 365, I would tend to go with 200-250. But nothing hard and fast, no formula.

[Haerandir]

I'd have to go with: more than 'none' and less than a 'lot'.

I.e: I just ballpark it.

[Jeff T.]

In comparison to myself, I usually assign power levels based on height. :)

[MCMaenza]

I kind of agree with Oddhat too. A step down on the scale would work (like half of that of the PC).

[Dr. Anomaly]

For 'slighty less' I use '75% of the PC's total cost' as a starting guideline to build the DNPC, and adjust cost from that as necessary or appropriate...usually down, as it happens...

[Matt Frisbee]

So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign.

I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then.

Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee

[OddHat]

So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign.

I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then.

Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee

One of my old campaign's most memorable DNPCs was a low powered Superhero, this back in the early 1990s. Good character.

[zornwil]

So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign.

I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then.

Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee

Don't you mean Matt "Trying to steal Keith Curtis' schtick" Frisbee? :D Just kidding!

Brings to mind, from the beginning, for superheroic, I played a straight 250 and any Disads you bought were added on top of that.

[Supreme Serpent]

I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then.

Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee

I mostly blame the skill explosion and the "pay points for everything" concept that has evolved for blossoming point totals. In the old days, there were twelve things listed as "Skills", and only seven of those would really be considered as "Skills" today - Acrobatics, Climbing, Computer Programming, Detective Work, Disguise, Security Systems and Stealth. That's it. (The other five were Find Weakness, Luck, Martial Arts [as one lump package], Skill Levels, and Swinging). (From 2nd Ed book).

Yeah, they were more expensive base, usually 5pts each instead of most skills now being 3. But you were DONE when you bought that skill. 5 pts, BAM, you're a competent detective. Nowadays you'd get laughed out of the HeroCave unless you had Deduction, Forensics, Concealment, Criminology, KS: Criminology, KS: Local Underworld, Streetwise, SC: Forensics, etc etc etc. :drink:

And many more things were handled with just GM judgement or an INT roll, instead of trying to decide what kind of penalty a question about Rainbow Brite would be if the character only has "KS: 1980's pop culture" compared to "KS: Children's Animation" or "KS: 1980's Television". And heaven help you if all you have is "KS: TV". :help: "

"Gee Bob, I don't see 'AK: Home' anywhere on your sheet, guess you'll have to make a Navigation roll to find the bathroom again. What, you don't have Navigation either? Hoo-boy."

Do you know anyone? Don't forget to buy them as contacts!

And we walked uphill both ways to the game store for a 30-page supplement! And we liked it that way, dagnabbit! ;)

[zornwil]

Supreme Serpent, that is a supreme rant! :thumbup: I agree with the theme even if not some of the specific details. I'd rep you if I could, but somehow the rep button is linked weirdly right now. Bookmarked to hit you up later.