Sailing, Sailing...

[Labrat]

Well I am getting an earful from my players for my obscene lack of nautical knowledge so I decided to do some research on the topic of global wind patterns and current effects. Here are some links that helped me. Put your RPGeek glasses on and enjoy the sheer data of it all!

http://kids.earth.nasa.gov/archive/nino/global.html (for kids = basic)
http://calspace.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange1/08_1.shtml
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/seamanship/weather/index.cfm (comprehensive but easy-to-follow primer, excellent detail and in-depth application)
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/learningtosail/index.cfm?articleID=colgat002&coll_cat=Language&Coll_name=Basic%20Sailing%20Language

Pick your level of intensity and flavor to taste...

[keithcurtis]

I believe that is, in part, covered under the Real Weapon limitation all fantasy weapons have.
Not only that, there is a section in FH that admonishes you to ignore unrealistic damage results. No amount of arrows will ever sink a galleon.
But Real Weapon is a very good place to start.

Keith "sank his own ship with an injudicious lightning bolt in FH" Curtis

[gojira]

Those are great links. I really like the SailNet ones. Rep headed your way.

While I haven't tried to actually game this, here are some links I thought were interesting.

Here's an illustration of trimming a Viking ship (http://viking.hgo.se/Books/Naviag.html). SailNet is great, but only for modern Marconi rigged sloops. Medieval ships had square sails and worked a little different.

In this picture, wind is comming from the bottom of the picture in the lower illustration. The Viking ship is sailing upwind (down) at about a 45 deg. angle or a little less. It may also be sailing straight across the page. Note all the ropes on the sail, both top and bottom. Some lead forward and some lead aft. All these ropes were needed to trim the sail properly.

In the upper part of the illustration, wind is behind the viewer, heading toward the boat (into the picture).

I haven't found a great explaination of how to sail a square rigged boat, but I'm still lookin. I found this picture with a google search on "viking navigation". Other search like "viking ships" and "viking longships" seem good too.

Don't forget about other famous boats you can do searches on. Lots of stuff on Columbus's boats, for example, as well as the Mayflower. All were square rigged vessels.

Two Years Before the Mast (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0375757945) has some explainations of how to trim a square rigged ship. Sails (and of course the yards they hang from) rotate around a mast on tall ships just like they do on that viking ship, more than 1000 years later! Rigging I believe is also similar.

You could also check out KISS Guide to Sailing (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0789480522). KISS GtS is one of the better learn on your own books I have seen. It's a modern guide also but give those of you who prefer dead trees something to read. ;)

US Sail (http://www.ussailing.org/) is the govering body for sailing instruction in the states. They have a list of sailing education, but they tend to be pricey. Check out local yatch clubs and city and county recreational groups. You can often get sailing lessons cheap there. Nothing beats actual hands on nautical knowledge! It's fun too. :D

[arcady]

Moved my threadjack here:
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36996

Into the rules forum where it was more appropriate and more polite to the person who started this thread.

[arcady]

As long as this thread is actually going to be able sailing in fantasy... :p

I had a situation in my last game where I got stuck for an answer as to how regular trade would happen in a region when winds blew in a predictable pattern.

The issue was 'once they get over there, how do they get back' and the geography was two penninsulas jutting out of the southern end of a continent just north of the equator.

See this map:
http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/fahla/images/Western_Kingdoms.png

And the question was people going between Lomyr and Veshasi when the wind comes down from the northwest blowing southeast and then moves west along the equator.

I began to wonder if I had logical wind patterns, and if so or if not, how people could move between these two kingdoms by sea quickly.

In the above map, the bottom of the image is the equator.
Global map used at the time: http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/fahla/images/New_Fahla.gif

[Super Squirrel]

I swear it is impossible to hear reference to a viking ship without thinking of viking kitten.

[gojira]

^
+-- Note: rum drinkin' pirate man says: "Yarrr!"

The issue was 'once they get over there, how do they get back' and the geography was two penninsulas jutting out of the southern end of a continent just north of the equator.
...
And the question was people going between Lomyr and Veshasi when the wind comes down from the northwest blowing southeast and then moves west along the equator.


Easy: Tack.

Well, tacking isn't easy on a square rigged boat, but it's do-able.

Much the same thing occurs in Two Years Behind the Mast while moving north off the California coast. Prevailing winds off the Ca. coast run north to south. (Note: those are prevailing winds, not trade winds. Check the SailNet links on weather. They rightly point out that weather is *local*.)

Worse, there's a current north of Santa Barbara that also runs north to south, so any sailing vessel going north will have a rough time with both the wind and the current against them. I think it took their ship a month going from Santa Barbara to San Francisco, and there were many days where they literally made no progress at all.

(If you read the book, you'll also get the idea that Richard Dana is subtly, and sometimes not so subtly, portraying his first captain as incompetent. Their difficulty tacking north may be due more to the captain than anything else.)

So, first, it's your world and winds blow the way you want. Trade winds are not the only winds. Mountains, land mass, cold currents, warm currents, storms, etc. all make the wind blow differently.

Winds can blow very differently at different times of the year. The mistrals in the Mediterranean blow only in the fall.

Second, currents are just about as important as wind, and can make a difference in sail times, especially for slower wind powered vessels. If currents run south east to north west for some reason, that'll help out returning vessels.

Third, a modern sailor would just drop sails and motor. Don't forget about fantasy equivalent to the motor, magic. Wind spells, rowing golems, and the occasional maverick with an internal combustion dohickey will all make a killing in the merchant marine.

Fourth, you can always tack up-wind. A vessel that needs to stay in sight of a shore will need to tack frequently, maybe once every 20 to 40 minutes (I think that's what they were doing in Two Years Before the Mast). This is not exactly exhausting for the crew, but it sure ain't easy. Plus, if you blow a tack, the wind will push you backwards and you could loose all progress before you got the sails straightened out.

A better captain could make two big tacks, one out and one back, if he had good navigation.

In your diagram, a ship should tack due west, or a little less (south-wards), then back due north or a little less (east-wards), to return home. That's assuming a north-west wind. ("From" the north-west.) At a guess, this will take two to three times as long as traveling with the wind. Really exceptional captains might be able to shave it to a bit less than 2x.

[L. Marcus]

I swear it is impossible to hear reference to a viking ship without thinking of viking kitten.
Yer disturbed, Mister. :D

[Super Squirrel]

Yer disturbed, Mister. :D
duh

[John Desmarais]

I swear it is impossible to hear reference to a viking ship without thinking of viking kitten.
For those who have forgotten (or never saw it): http://users.wolfcrews.com/toys/vikings/

On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

[SCUBA Hero]

I just bought the old Judges Guild "Sea Steeds and Wave Riders" (usually available on ebay, as well) which has deck plans and a 32 page booklet on medieval craft. The deck plans are always nice, there are illustrations, and it's a decent introductory reference.

[Captain Obvious]

I had a situation in my last game where I got stuck for an answer as to how regular trade would happen in a region when winds blew in a predictable pattern.

The issue was 'once they get over there, how do they get back' and the geography was two penninsulas jutting out of the southern end of a continent just north of the equator.


One possible effect of this would be that many ships are quickly thrown together, with the intention of dismantling them at the downwind site and selling the lumber. The sailors would then either sign on with a more permanent ship for the more difficult upwind route, or else sign on with an overland caravan.

This, by the way, is pretty much what boatmen did on the Mississippi and its tributaries before steam engines powerful enough to travel upstream. Rafts carrying trade goods were brought down and the whole thing sold off, and the rafters would sign on with a keelboat, which needed more strong backs to pole upstream than for the lazy drift downstream.

[Cancer]

Also, a regular wind pattern can be ... in fact almost always will be ... season-dependent, which can result in a one-round-trip-a-year pattern of marine commerce.