how to break a man of displaced fantasy chars

[Rage]

Ok so anyway, we finished up our dnd campaign, and I have been asked to do a super hero campain, so I am doing it and as the characters are new to FRed I sat them down and asked them what their char concept was. One wanted to be a Doomesque armoured scientist with a Spider man persona- thats cool. the other wanted to be a Bull themed move through specialist. but the third. the one who wanted me to run it said he would be playing a displaced fantasy character. I put my foot down, as he always ends up playing a FREAKING ELF NAMED TEL PRYDAIN. He said ok, and then came back with a displaced Jedi. I wanted to slap him, and keep slapping him. (This is kinda bad for a pacifist to think those thoughts.)

So any help with dealing with a problem like this?
NOTE: Dropping him is not an option or somthing I would do.

[Celt]

Well, my first suggestion would be to drop Mr. Lame, but you've queered that sage bit of advice from the get go. I still say that's the best go, or at least do nothing to cater to him. Maybe he'll get bored and go elsewhere.

Tell him for your campaign everyone must come from planet Earth, from the present time. Then make no exceptions, neither for him nor anyone else.

Suggest he take his displaced Jedi, change his lightsaber into a Psychic Sword, come from the Mid-West.

Nerd slap him into a quivering bowl of Jell-O.

Whatever you do, don't cater to him. You've got two other players who are being more cooperative than him. Which behavior do you wish to reward?

[Mark Taylor]

You probably did this anyway, but always make sure that players have a fairly complete character concept that you have approved before they start working on stats. It's a lot harder to tell a player "no" once they have put a whole lot of work into defining their character in game terms.

[TheTemplar]

As a player who just wrapped up a character who was a displaced fantasy character (a vampire hunter knight to be specific..)I can honestly tell you that the best way to curb that would be to simply explain to the player that he's not going to ever feel like his character has a place in the world, or that he fits in at all. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy my character at all...he was okay.. but I really didn't have a solid understanding of what my GM was wanting to run in the campaign. I would have had SO much more fun playing a more 4-color Supe.

Does the player understand the superhero genre, or is he being converted from a more DnD background? Honestly, he sounds alot like I did before I really got into the swing of Champions. I came from RPG=d20 and that's that. And, not being an avid comic book fan, I was pretty much lost on the style quirks of the genre. After learning more about the Superhero RP genre, I think the character concepts I'm coming up with now are a much better match to what would fit into a Supers campaign...as opposed to a guy from the mid 1300's in magical armor (basically, he was a powersuit..a REALLY bad powersuit, but a powersuit nonetheless.)

Anyway, if you approach the player from the angle that he'll have more fun and feel more a part of the campaign if he conforms his characters to the standards you have set for the campaign tone, then I think he should be more than willing to comply. If not, well... not to get all power trippy or anything, but you ARE the GM... if you say No to that character, then that's it. It sounds like this guy is a friend of yours, so I TOTALLY understand your reluctance to play the "I'm the GM" card on him... but taking the first explanation route should also correct the problem if he's a good friend...the GM card is always a last resort.

-T

[Pattern Ghost]

Give him a big pile of comics and let him absorb them, then come back with a character that would fit into one of those comics. Heck, even a clone of a comic character would be OK to start with.

You can also point him at Champions 5E if you have it. Very decent explanation of the genre, and a random hero generator that can be used as a basic template, as well as some sample characters.

If, after one or both of these, he doesn't get it, I'd ask him if he wants to get it. He may not be that fired up about the genre. (Which makes reading material selection important. Gotta hook 'em.)

[Evil Steve]

Mayhaps some redirection might be the way to go. As Celt suggested, pass along the idea of a psychic, granted a lightsabre by semi-pacifistic aliens and he adopts the Jedi code as his moral centre, as he's young and somewhat geeky.

One of my players came up with this one so I can't take the credit.

[JohnTaber]

If the player likes to use stuff from other source that might be ok but try to help him make them more creative. One of the tricks I recommend to players like this is to combine ideas. How about a guy with a laser sword from an alien race of elvish looking galactic police officers? Get the idea? combine several ideas then it can sometimes make things more unique...just a thought... ;)

[KA.]

Originally posted by Rage
Ok so anyway, we finished up our dnd campaign, and I have been asked to do a super hero campain, so I am doing it and as the characters are new to FRed I sat them down and asked them what their char concept was. One wanted to be a Doomesque armoured scientist with a Spider man persona- thats cool. the other wanted to be a Bull themed move through specialist. but the third. the one who wanted me to run it said he would be playing a displaced fantasy character. I put my foot down, as he always ends up playing a FREAKING ELF NAMED TEL PRYDAIN. He said ok, and then came back with a displaced Jedi. I wanted to slap him, and keep slapping him. (This is kinda bad for a pacifist to think those thoughts.)

So any help with dealing with a problem like this?
NOTE: Dropping him is not an option or somthing I would do.

Hey Rage,
Glad to see you again from the old boards.
I don't think I have replied to one of your posts since we got the new boards, so let me begin by saying "Hi!".

Anyway, on to your question.

There is one thing in your post that gives me pause.
It sounds like everyone is willing to create a character within the "superhero" genre, except for the guy who asked for it in the first place!
If this is true, you need to talk to the player. Without being too hard on him, you need to ask him what the heck he is doing.
If he wanted to play "supers", then why doesn't he want to play a SuperHero?

Does he only feel comfortable playing the same basic character?

Does he want to enjoy the "cool factor" of being the "outsider"?

Does he actually want to expand his horizons, and in reality wants you to "force" him to create a different kind of character than he usually plays?

Or, is he just being a jerk? :) (just kidding, without further evidence I would not hurl that accusation at anyone)

You may want to try telling him flat out that you expect him to design an actual, four-color, superhero character, and see how he responds.

Or, apply the Figure Four Leg Lock until he creates a proper character. :D (That always works for me!)

KA

[Killer Shrike]

Let him play the displaced fantasy character.

Oops....he seems to have attracted the attention of Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krim.....

Huh, I didnt realize Elves had livers that look almost exactly like ours.....

Who knew those Crown guys had a hate on for displaced elves? Oh well. I bet I can guess what his next character ISNT going to be. ;)


Just kidding; dont do this if you can avoid it; its wrong on so many layers I loose count.

In all seriousness, you definitely need to sit this guy down for a WTF? As KA points out its sounds like classic doubletalk. Does he want to play supers or not. Maybe his definition of supers differs from that of the rest of the world. Who knows? You need to find out b4 making any major decisions for the game.

[JmOz]

Your right down with displaced characters, they are so NOT In genera...

I mean could you IMAGINE someone wanting to play a guy with Magic Armor, a Magic Sword, and a Pegasus in a Golden Age Champions game, he even wants to say he is from Camelot and his magic items (and the horses wings for that matter) are because Merlin cast a spell on him, and worst of all the name he came up with "The Shinning Knight" come on how about some character thought

And what about this guy who wants to play a western Hero that traveled through time with the group, all he is is a fast shooter, Two-Gun Kid, come on, originality people

If you have not been able to guess this post is an attempt at Sarcasim, I say let him do it, have fun with it, just make sure the story is explained (Perhaps he is from another dimension that Lucas dreams about...)

[Pattern Ghost]

I agree that magic-based type characters are in genre, but I got the gist that the player just wanted to more or less translate his DnD character into a supers environment. Despite the window dressing, each genre has very different tropes, especially when you're talking about the DnD sub-genre of heroic fantasy.

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by JmOz
Your right down with displaced characters, they are so NOT In genera...

I mean could you IMAGINE someone wanting to play a guy with Magic Armor, a Magic Sword, and a Pegasus in a Golden Age Champions game, he even wants to say he is from Camelot and his magic items (and the horses wings for that matter) are because Merlin cast a spell on him, and worst of all the name he came up with "The Shinning Knight" come on how about some character thought

And what about this guy who wants to play a western Hero that traveled through time with the group, all he is is a fast shooter, Two-Gun Kid, come on, originality people

If you have not been able to guess this post is an attempt at Sarcasim, I say let him do it, have fun with it, just make sure the story is explained (Perhaps he is from another dimension that Lucas dreams about...)

Add to that, in an early Enimies book there was a displaced dwarf character with the whole DnD schtic (Girdle, Guantlets, and Magic Axe combo)

[Rage]

But the point is he asked me to write a super hero campaign, he wanted somthing new. He then comes back with the same character he plays all the time. (An elf ranger.) This isn't just the same archtype its almost exactly the same character. I send him away reminding him of the genre. He comes back with a Jedi, a Jedi who is very similar to the before mentioned ranger- Name, personality, power set...

I gave him a pile of my comics and I think he may go with a Nova clone. I'm cool with that.

Now for my own sanity when I GM no one is allowed to be called Tel Prydain or anything too similar in my eyes. Lest they find what having Mechanon and Telios as hunteds 14- is.

Or worse, Fox Bat will become the chars side kick/love interest.

[Rage]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
I agree that magic-based type characters are in genre, but I got the gist that the player just wanted to more or less translate his DnD character into a supers environment. Despite the window dressing, each genre has very different tropes, especially when you're talking about the DnD sub-genre of heroic fantasy.

Magics definitly in genre, however being a forgotten realms elf named Tel WILL NEVER BE in genre.

[CrosshairCollie]

Originally posted by JmOz
I mean could you IMAGINE someone wanting to play a guy with Magic Armor, a Magic Sword, and a Pegasus in a Golden Age Champions game, he even wants to say he is from Camelot and his magic items (and the horses wings for that matter) are because Merlin cast a spell on him, and worst of all the name he came up with "The Shinning Knight" come on how about some character thought

I hate to dump on that line of thought, but in fact, there are similarities here with Marvel's Black Night, who, last revision I knew, wielded a magic sword, had a magic shield, elvish chain mail armor, and had a flying horse, all granted to him by The Lady Of The Lake, who was seeking a 'new Pendragon'. While this doesn't say anything about originality, it gives something of a precedence.

The real problem would come in if he expects the game world to conform to his character's old one. Sometimes, a player likes to play an 'outsider' (these are the folks who take 20+ points of Distinctive Features). I mean, The Thing is an outsider in a lot of ways. And it could potentially be a powerful RPable aspect of the character, trying to find people with whom he can feel he belongs (aka the supers). As far as being 'in genre', well, if you subscribe to the common comic book convention of alternate universes, he could run afoul of a Plane Shift. Another RPable hook: wanting to go home.

[TheTemplar]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
I hate to dump on that line of thought, but in fact, there are similarities here with Marvel's Black Night, who, last revision I knew, wielded a magic sword, had a magic shield, elvish chain mail armor, and had a flying horse, all granted to him by The Lady Of The Lake, who was seeking a 'new Pendragon'. While this doesn't say anything about originality, it gives something of a precedence.

The real problem would come in if he expects the game world to conform to his character's old one. Sometimes, a player likes to play an 'outsider' (these are the folks who take 20+ points of Distinctive Features). I mean, The Thing is an outsider in a lot of ways. And it could potentially be a powerful RPable aspect of the character, trying to find people with whom he can feel he belongs (aka the supers). As far as being 'in genre', well, if you subscribe to the common comic book convention of alternate universes, he could run afoul of a Plane Shift. Another RPable hook: wanting to go home.

If I'm reading JmOZ's post correctly here, and I believe I am..please correct me if I'm not, he is using some heavy sarcasm to make the same point you are CC. He's saying that there IS a place for displaced fantasy characters in the comic book genre, and I do agree that there is. Having played one, however, I can tell you..it really wasn't all that much fun. (Attacking cars because their eyes glowed like fiery demons..and don't even get me started on the evils of the telephone.) I mean, it was okay...but once my character became adjusted to life in the modern world, he kinda got boring. (So, I asked the GM to kill him off and have him come back with wings......long story.)
In this case, however, if Rage, as the GM, feels that this concept of a displaced fantasy character isn't going to be in genre for what his specific campaign, then the player should respect that and change his character, which it sounds like he is doing by making a Nova clone.

-T

[JmOz]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
I hate to dump on that line of thought, but in fact, there are similarities here with Marvel's Black Night, who, last revision I knew, wielded a magic sword, had a magic shield, elvish chain mail armor, and had a flying horse, all granted to him by The Lady Of The Lake, who was seeking a 'new Pendragon'. While this doesn't say anything about originality, it gives something of a precedence.

The real problem would come in if he expects the game world to conform to his character's old one. Sometimes, a player likes to play an 'outsider' (these are the folks who take 20+ points of Distinctive Features). I mean, The Thing is an outsider in a lot of ways. And it could potentially be a powerful RPable aspect of the character, trying to find people with whom he can feel he belongs (aka the supers). As far as being 'in genre', well, if you subscribe to the common comic book convention of alternate universes, he could run afoul of a Plane Shift. Another RPable hook: wanting to go home.

As has been pointed out I was being sarcastic, The Shining Knight was a Golden Age Character DC has the rights to right now (Not sure if they created him, or if he was aquired later), he was also a main character in DC's All Star Squadron, The Two Gun Kid is a Marvel character who worked with the Avengers for a while

[Talon]

One of my all-time favorite characters was a misplaced fantasy superhero...but there's a big difference between doing that because it's a good superhero concept and doing that because you really want to be playing a fantasy game. Some people are more into the concept than the campaign, to the point where it hurts the game as a whole. It sounded like that was the case here.

[TheTemplar]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
One of my all-time favorite characters was a misplaced fantasy superhero...but there's a big difference between doing that because it's a good superhero concept and doing that because you really want to be playing a fantasy game. Some people are more into the concept than the campaign, to the point where it hurts the game as a whole. It sounded like that was the case here.

Yeah, I think that's what hurt my misplaced character. I didn't quite understand what the campaign tone would be like, coming from a solely DnD background. Concept is key, but that concept needs to be able to mesh with the concepts of all other players involved.

-T

[tiger]

I've played a displaced Dwarf fighter before. Had a neat hammer and such. I walked into a cave and ame out of a tunnel in the city.

First thing I did was save a women who was being attacked by a metal monster. She was quite upset when I trashed her VW.
That's how you fix him. Cars would mean nothing to an elf. Planes would be strange flying creatures, etc.

So he'd attack a car be thrown in jail.....time for new hero

[Stormraven]

Originally posted by tiger
I've played a displaced Dwarf fighter before. Had a neat hammer and such. I walked into a cave and ame out of a tunnel in the city.

First thing I did was save a women who was being attacked by a metal monster. She was quite upset when I trashed her VW.
That's how you fix him. Cars would mean nothing to an elf. Planes would be strange flying creatures, etc.

So he'd attack a car be thrown in jail.....time for new hero

Okay - pet peeve time here. What is it with this assumption that displaced fantasy or historical characters will attack cars?

With a few exceptions, folks, a car looks close enough to a cart, coach or wagon that any being familiar with those would know it's not a 'dragon', 'demon', or other magical beastie.

"Hey, a magical coach! What a great idea. How does it run? Sprites, pixies, elementals?"

There's more than enough humour available - especially with a historical character - from valid culture shock that I don't see the need to enter into the realm of slapstick.

[JmOz]

I agree, and if the character is a mage, can you imagine him going to Ford BEGGING to be taught the spells?

[Captain Obvious]

He'd probably lose interest in those particular rituals once he saw the factory and all the apprentices it takes to create those coaches....

[Blue]

How many scruples do you have? I ask because I honestly am not cruel enough to pull this off (well, maybe in my younger days, but not now)... You could let him make the character and then kill it off.

Problem you risk of course is alienating your player. So now I'll try to be more constructive:

If none of the suggestions made by others above are suitable then try this...

Let him use elements of each of the characters until the whole is something new. If he's addicted to bows, do that, but give him new twists to think about (explosive tipped arrows); if he's into the whole jedi-mindtrick thing build a mind-control power with him. By the time you've sewn together this Franken-character he may be mostly unrecognizable to you, and yet have all the cool things your player liked.

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by Rage
Magics definitly in genre, however being a forgotten realms elf named Tel WILL NEVER BE in genre.

Rage you need to quit keeping these emotions in, you really need to let this out. Vent once and awhile. :D

Glad to see that he found a different character.

[starblaze]

You know what you could do is go ahead and have him make his Fantasy Hero character as a beginning character for Fantasy Hero. Meaning that when everyone else is playing 350 pt Supers he can start the game as 75+75 elf hero.

See how long that will last.

[Mr Mole]

I dunno... I see some GMing possibilities here...

I'd let him play the elf ranger for awhile... Then he'd find out after a few sessions that he a psychic manifestation summoned from the subconscious mind of a geeky school kid. His entire existence is nothing but a dream.

Maybe the kid is stuck in a coma, his life-force ebbing away, and the only way to bring him out of it is to give him back the psychic energy, thus allowing for a heroic sacrifice worthy of an elf ranger.

One big radiation accident is what it becomes. Gives the Player a chance to see if that's the type of character he really WANTS to play, gives you a chance to see if it works, and it allows for some sufficently heroic roleplaying... All without having to be stuck with a @#$% D&D character if you decide he simply has to go.

Might be a lot more fun to see what powers the kid could manifest after waking up...

[KA.]

Okay Rage, how about a little more feedback?
How are things going?

Personally, I don't care what kind of character someone plays, as long as they play with the group.
I just have a problem with people who want to play with themselves while the group watches.

Urr . . . Sorry.:eek:

KA

[Rage]

I too have a problem with public manipulation KA.
Ummmmmm

played first actual game session.

The other two caught on immidiatly. Or atleast roleplayed well (which was funny as one of the players isn't "very good" at being a char usually) and were fighting the agents well, However "Solaris" had problems. He played it like a fantasy game, butchering the bad guys and looting.
It made me sad, so sad infact I triggured his 2d6 unluck and he was arrested.

Boo hoo.
See right now I am feeling quite discouraged. I tried hard, and I ran this campaign and in the end... well.

[LadyChaos]

Personally, I think displaced historical characters can be fun. However, a PC lifted from a fantasy campaign with the serial numbers filed off isn't.

Is the player strongly attached to this PC? Maybe he doesn't realize he can become equally attached to another PC. Sometimes playing the complete opposite of what you have been playing is a challenge, and fun.

Anyway, if he insists on doing this, go ahead and allow faerie in your world. Mystics could know about them, but the general public wouldn't. However, they follow folkloric rules--things like taking body from iron, maybe make him be pixie sized. Think what a horrible disad it'd be to lose body anytime iron touches you. You could be really cruel and include iron alloys or make the character lose CON or STUN simply from being too near the stuff. How will he ever be able to ride in a car?

Just a thought.

[Supreme]

My advice for any situation where a player is being a problem is to speak plainly. Tell them exactly why they are being a problem. Don't say, "well, there aren't supposed to be any elves," or "no magical armor," or any other rule or reason which you think will eliminate that PC from the game. Tell this person that you don't want out-of-genre characters, and you're a bit ticked that this is the bloke who asked you to run Champs in the first place.

I had a player in a campaign who ignored hints, ignored written campaign docs specifying what was and was not appropriate, and even ignored when I sat him down and spoke to him plainly about why his characters and style of playing were not working for the group. Finally I just told him to leave. Unless they're a relative, or saved your life once, you don't owe them anything.

[Rage]

Originally posted by LadyChaos
Personally, I think displaced historical characters can be fun. However, a PC lifted from a fantasy campaign with the serial numbers filed off isn't.

Is the player strongly attached to this PC? Maybe he doesn't realize he can become equally attached to another PC. Sometimes playing the complete opposite of what you have been playing is a challenge, and fun.

Anyway, if he insists on doing this, go ahead and allow faerie in your world. Mystics could know about them, but the general public wouldn't. However, they follow folkloric rules--things like taking body from iron, maybe make him be pixie sized. Think what a horrible disad it'd be to lose body anytime iron touches you. You could be really cruel and include iron alloys or make the character lose CON or STUN simply from being too near the stuff. How will he ever be able to ride in a car?

Just a thought.

Nahh I already have the sidhe in my world.
His character was a forgotten realms Elf which was exactly the same as he always plays. I was pretty amased that he managed to do a 3e conversion that well.

[Rage]

Originally posted by Supreme
Unless they're a relative, or saved your life once, you don't owe them anything.

If he was my relative I would just tell him to sodd off.

[Maccabe]

(There was a player type called "Copier"- one who always seemed to want to play copies of characters from movies etc)

** Think of maintaining balance and accuracy.

Displaced Jedi weaknesses-
Gets tempted to be evil (Return of the Jedi)
Gets hand cut off (Empire Strikes back)
No money usable in your world (like he carries $10 bills???)
Where does he go to recharge his lightsaber (Radio Shack?)
Who trains him? (Yoda, Earth to find try)

Displaced Fantasy Type weaknesses--
Illiterate(most were, langauge has changed alot too)
Bad personal Hygiene (deoderant?? toothpaste??)
Ignorant ( Is that a train or an Iron Golem???)
Spell material components (where do you find a unicorn??)

Get the idea?

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally posted by Rage
Ok so anyway, we finished up our dnd campaign, and I have been asked to do a super hero campain, so I am doing it and as the characters are new to FRed I sat them down and asked them what their char concept was. One wanted to be a Doomesque armoured scientist with a Spider man persona- thats cool. the other wanted to be a Bull themed move through specialist. but the third. the one who wanted me to run it said he would be playing a displaced fantasy character. I put my foot down, as he always ends up playing a FREAKING ELF NAMED TEL PRYDAIN. He said ok, and then came back with a displaced Jedi. I wanted to slap him, and keep slapping him. (This is kinda bad for a pacifist to think those thoughts.)


I'd have gone with the slapping, myself.

Failing that, just "forget" to invite him to further sessions. Let the other players know that he's not welcome.

[LadyChaos]

I somehow missed your earlier comments about your game session--thought you hadn't played yet.

I'd have to agree with Supreme. Come right out and tell the player that the type of character(s) he's brought in don't fit into your game world. Could you stand a comic book clone? If so, maybe he'd be interested in playing one of those. At least we're talking supers here. Maybe he's a Bruce Lee nut and could be talked into playing a martial artist.

Just say no. If that doesn't work, witch slap him a few times.:D

If he's not willing to work with you, I'd have to ask him why he asked for the game in the first place. He doesn't sound too cooperative to me. Is he just yanking your chain?

Have you played any more sessions/talked/what have you? If so, how'd it go?

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Rage

The other two caught on immidiatly. Or atleast roleplayed well (which was funny as one of the players isn't "very good" at being a char usually) and were fighting the agents well, However "Solaris" had problems. He played it like a fantasy game, butchering the bad guys and looting.
It made me sad, so sad infact I triggured his 2d6 unluck and he was arrested.

OK I've been reading this thread and came up to this post. I know what the guy's problem is. He wants to play Fantasy Hero but wants to be able to have more points to play with. He figured the easiest way to get the points was to jump into a Champions campaign.

Having the character arrested was a good call.