Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

[Virtue]

I Never liked superhuman registration act during 5th ed it is part of the law

As GMs do you guys use it

I was just going to have a database of criminals and heros (heros are volitary status the Villians are entered in when they are arested Heros dont give up their secret Ids)

I think im going to use the Champions Presents #1 adventure with Prism cause i really like it

Give me your thoughts players and GMs

[Hermit]

I don't like it. Frankly, in a world of high powered, often high tech villains like Dr. Destroyer, (or even guys like Cybermind who can access closed systems if they get in line of sight), it comes across as asking superheroes to sign their death warrant. I see how it would be realistic that the government would pass one, but realism isn't really the point for me. At least in the CU 5th, "it has no teeth", and I go with that, but over all I think having the setting start up with it already passed didn't suit my style.

[CBikle]

I get the impression that it was modeled after Marvel's Mutant Registration Act and was intended as a looming plot-conflict to give PCs growing concern over its implications.

I suspect that a lot of GMs use it as a quick way of getting the PCs together.

[incrdbil]

As a GM though, it worked nicely into part of my overall plot. In my group, only 1 PC has registered, and regrets it. As for security..after session three, the team had a copy of the database. (Well, the Ultimates stole it, and the team got it back from them, they just happened to make a copy....). I found a legal workaround for the group toio still function locally without registering, though they recieve no federal support at all, and a lot of hostility from Primus for beating the system.

As a player, I'd not play any character stupid enough to register. Gah, what a dumb idea for a hero to subject himself too. Better a vigilante than owned by the government.

[Badger]

I wouldnt play a character who registered either.

But, the thing I wonder is seeing how superpowered obviously implies more powerful than normal. Why wouldnt they band together and go civil warring. Granted maybe not the hero-types. But the villains and the ones who are neutral-ish would want to put up with that. Just something to think about I guess. Just a picture in my head of some policemen/FBI agent whatever coming up to me and saying my newfound superpowers are illegal and I am forbidden to use them. My thinking might be "So, you cant do squat about it if I do".

[Zeropoint]

The way I play it is that when the law was passed, it became quickly and readily apparent that it was COMPLETELY unenforcable, at least without turning the country into a police state with superpowered police. Today, registration is voluntary (at least effectively so). In exchange for registering and providing a general description of his or her powers (so the government knows who to call if a situation requiring certain powers arises), the super gets an electronic ID card which allows them to prove that they are the super in question, the right to testify in costume without revealing their secret identity, and no one else can register with their name (not that this guarantees no one else will use it).

Supers are not required to list their weaknesses or vulnerabilities, but it is known that the government collects publically available information on supers. Publically known weaknesses will become part of the database.

Zeropoint

[TheRavenIs]

Don't use, hate it, have had this same thing tried by GM's in one form or another. Never had a C that has, and will never have one that is.

[Metaphysician]

Um, the Act in default 5e *is* voluntary.

[Powerhouse]

In my fanfiction, I used something I saw in the Avengers where a the ID is given to a computer link and the security check is done automatically. Afterwards, all records are destroyed. In the Avengers, Tony Stark had verified that the system was foolproof. Here, Titan (who's just as smart as Tony) did the same thing after much wrangling (since he's not a US citizen). It was considered a compromise since the security clearance was needed for the Silver Knights to be an effective team but clearance can not go out wily nily.

Ironically, they are done in by their own liason Sentinel. As a team member as well, he's trusted with everyone's ID's since he's a Knight as well... but the SOB turns those names in. There's a reason the rest of the team now hates him. Of course when a betrayal by another team member leaked their ID's to the villains, Sentinel's crap didn't mean quite so much.

[Southern Cross]

It's interesting to wonder HOW such an obviously unenforcable law got passed in the canon Champions Universe.And also how long before it's repealed....

[Lord Mhoram]

I hate it with a passion that knows no bounds.* I think it is an evil measure, and with all of the civils rights stuff that goes on in the real world, completley and totally unrealistic. It being intact is way to bronze/iron agey for me as well.
I have never run a campaign with it involved, unless it is to see the events of it trying to get passed, and the actions of the the heroes stopping it. I generally don't run anti-mutant hysteria as a background plot, and don't use genocide. If I played in a game that had it, the hero would start a publicity campaing against it, showing him in WW2 clothes and a yellow star of David with the tagline "have you registered yet?" or something equelly inflammatory. **


* or my hat know no limit, take your pick.

** Yes oh great and might GM, if you read this, that is something that Terminal Velocity will likely do after the events with Genocide. And Jepeoardy can say "I told you so" :)

[Matt Frisbee]

Superhuman registration, played properly, can be both good and bad for a registered character.

I do not use the CU 5th Ed. version, but I took a cue from The Incredibles and created the Bureau of Metahuman Affairs in my campaign universe. The deal there is that a super who registers gets support in the form of insurance for those acts committed in fighting crime. The government handles the costs of property damage, the super is immune from lawsuits (since he or she is technically a part of the government), and is granted limited federal police powers (mainly authorization to stop a crime in progress and detain those responsible until they can be taken into custody by formal authorities).

It should be noted, however, that only about 4% of the estimated 5,000 metahumans in the United States have registered, and only about half of those are actively fighting crime. (That means only about 100 heroes.) The others have registered their powers for assistance in getting employment (waivers from OSHA, special psychological and physical treatment from BMA specialists, etc.) but are not actively fighting crime. The other 96% are either trying to hide their abilities or are supervillains. (24 villains for each hero -- things stay busy in my universe!)

It's fairly obvious that agencies within the US Government in the CU 5th Ed. Universe have ulterior motives, which could lead to serious plot complications down the road...

Matt "Metagaming-the-possiblities" Frisbee

[Hermit]

In the Civic Guard thread, I thought up this representive for D.C. hero. She's a lot grayer than I liked, but I thought it fit the 'feel' of the city. I may yet use her in my own games if I want to make a fuss over said Registration act.


Monument broke through yet another door while PRIMUS and VIPER agents battled it out outside. She found the Senator bound up and ready for transport. She made a note of the security cameras in the room… good.

“Monument!” He cried out, “Help me!” His eyes were wide and his face was pale.

The agents that were securing him turned and fired powerful concussive blasts that would have broken down a bank vault.

They might as well have been firing water pistols. Monument’s skin might look like Marble, but it was much stronger than that. The Super heroine waded through the rays of energy as if walking into a headwind. Three punches later, it was all over.

She snapped the senator free strap by strap. She had no love of this man, far from it, but at least while the VIPER agents in this room were down, they could talk.

“Senator, I hope you realize just how ironic this is, given your stance on superhumans?”

The man looked disoriented, and confused. The sounds of blasterfire continued. Then he seemed to come to, “Ironic maybe, but I stand by my stance. It’s what the people want. You super heroes think you’re above the law!” Still, he swallowed.

“I think the registration act's secrecy will eventually come undone and a lot of good men and women are going to die because of it.” She tried to stay calm, and freed him from the last bond. She hoped Douglas was on the job. She hated putting him in harms way, but the man was ex secret service, he was used to it.

“As you like Senator,” She fireman carried him through the wreckage despite his protests. Already VIPER was in full retreat, and PRIMUS and the local heroes of DC were victorious.

She sat him down, pretending she didn’t notice the cameras and spoke clearly, “Take good care of the senator… he’s been pretty frightened.” She tried to mix just the right amount of sympathy with pity. Too much of the former, and others would feel the same, too much of the latter, and her contempt would be evident instead of subtle.

The senator sputtered.
“No need to thank me Senator…” Monument inclined her head, “Now, I really must be going. Thank you good folks of PRMUS.” and left.. though naturally under the pretense of leaving she allowed some reporters to wean a few choice comments (Her choosing, not theirs) on the situation as she went.

Much later, in her lair, she glanced over the disc again, “This is good stuff Douglas.”
Douglas smiled, “Good thing for you VIPER likes keeping records. They hadn’t transmitted this yet, that I could tell, but I figure this gives you what you want.”

“True. We edit out, very carefully, the parts that remotely portray the senator in a noble or brave light…”
“Not much to edit there.” Douglas smirked, but Monument continued..
“… emphasize the parts that have him giving up blubbering willing to give up government secrets, and then later pleading for my help. We should manage to portray him as a coward quite easily, and while folks might show sympathy for a coward, they won’t re-elect one.”
“Sending it to his rival, or the internet?” Douglass asked.
“Both I think. Run it through the internet in parts first, make sure it looks like a copy of a copy of a copy… then voila… he disputes it. Claims someone is picking on him. Then we send the original disc anonymously. I pay Donald well… he’ll make sure the alterations are nearly untraceable. In the end, it won’t matter. Seeds of doubt will be planted, and that coupled with the money I’ve funneled into his defeat will finish him. One less anti super politician in congress.
“Donald’s one of the best.” Douglas conceded. “Guess he feels he owes you for getting him out of the Shadow Army.”
Monument remembered the cover up she had done to keep Donald’s record clean, so he could go back to his family and see his daughter without prison bars in the way. Sometimes she felt guilty, but this was Washington, and compromises had to be made.

“I guess he does.. besides, there’s a lot we’ll do for family.” The marble seeming heroine let a note of pain enter her voice.

Douglas asked, “You want to head to Millennium City to… you know, pay respects at the park?”

She shook her head, “No. No more worrying about the past. Just making sure the past doesn’t repeat itself. That damned registration act meant any hero not registered was denied access to important information about Dr Destroyer and his minions. Information that could have saved their lives. That’s not happening again, not if I can help it.” Inwardly, she hoped the rest of the Civic Guard never found out. Some of them would never approve... never understand.

Douglas nodded. He had more respect for her than some of the presidents and Veeps he’d protected in the past. Sure, she sometimes got herself dirty, sure she had an agenda. But it was DC… EVERYONE has an Agenda.

[Powerhouse]

To be fair, it does make sense for some people to want a SHRA. Consider gun control advocates who want guns registered: it really makes no sense since the only people who would consider registering said guns are law abiding citizens YET there is strong support for it.

Now consider extending that to masked beings who:

1. carry a ton more firepower than a 38 special.
2. You can't take those guns away from them.

As a normal, would you want someone to control paranormals? Now admittedly, a logical argument is that most paranormal criminals are already registered (ie they were busted and their ID's are now known) but that's not going to dissaude the people who parade around their family members who were killed or maimed in a superhuman clash. Captain Paragon's powerbolts don't discriminate between good and evil and the bricks that fall when he gets punched through a building don't miss the bystanders. It becomes an emotional issue very quickly.

A more logical argument might be that by registering superhumans, you can hold them responsible (and sue-able) for damages caused. Again a superhuman won't want this but he or she is a very small part of the voting populace. In addition, it can be shaded as reaching out to train young supers who might not have full control of their powers. "Yes we know that Fallout Lad is a good kid but he emitts gamma radiation whenever upset. He MUST be taught control for his good and the good of everyone!"

[Chimpira]

I use it in my game. Currently, only, one character is going to officially register, but he has a public ID. He worked out a deal so that his team can get more info and he was the only one that had to bite the bullet and since his enemies had already shown that they had no qualms about knocking on his front door, it is kind of a good situation for him to be in. As with a lot of things it has its good side and its bad side. In my game when you register you recieve not just info but certain privileges that your counterparts do not. You recieve a code to use when talking to the local police and federal agents which allows you to go from crackpot caller to priorty caller, You can go to court and testify against the criminal that you stopped, you get allowed to approach a crime scene and depending on your background (as demonstrated by a test given to you by the city in criminalogy and forensics, which must be taken every three years) you can help with the investigation at the scene, instead of waiting for the report. There is quite a few other things as well, but you have to also put up with certain amount of Red Tape, with people that do not want you in there way as they conduct investigations (you might be upset because you are the hero but these people have heard stories about more than one well meaning but rookie hero that has destroyed evidence by mistake, gotten himself killed or other people killed by his actions.) You, also, worry about someone finding out your identity and about government types putting pressure on you to not go into that country harboring a known criminal because we are in the middle of some delicate talks right now, thank you very much.

[zornwil]

I never liked the idea of the Marvel mutant thing and related registrations until after watching X-Men and thinking more about it. Then my supers campaign became all about that, but in a way, I hoped, more interesting and less superficial than the Marvel thing. So registration came along with it, not really sure about 5th edition as I don't use CU, but that idea. The act has been around since the 1950s during the mutant menace (red scare like thing) era, and enforced. In fact, the US has a threat system for supers (which I conceived btw before 9/11) which classifies them according to how dangerous they are. The most dangerous can be incarcerated without trial, only medical verification of their abilities is able to get around that abrogation of civil rights, and even that is sometimes successfully thrown out or forestalled. One of the issues of society is this rigid 1984 direction.

Although the campaign world has now changed. With mass mutations having occurred and the PCs' direct involvement in mutant relations (including putting pressure on government officials), the act is near repeal, and the tenor of the campaign itself is changing.

[Springald Jack]

My Supers Universe has voluntary registration under the M.A.S.K. Act, which created M.A.S.K.* which is a semi-governmental agency. M.A.S.K. registered metas can testify in court get sweetheart deals on Property Destruction Insurance, and can be registered in Extranormal Academy (Super-Hero High)

However the Civilian Identity portion of the M.A.S.K. Registry is only accessible via an appropriate Warrant or the unanimous vote of the M.A.S.K. Board of Trustees.


*Metahuman Agency Systematizing Knowledge, not Mobile Armored Strike Kommand for all you cartoon fans.

[KnightOwl]

I'm just starting up a campaign, and I have tentative plans to incorporate a Supers Registration
Act into it. One of the PCs has the 'Patriot' disadvantage, and the others are wildly different
in outlook, moral values, and methods, so it should make for some interesting role-playing.

[OddHat]

All of this is setting specific. In the CU, as written, I don't like it, and don't consider it workable. It wouldn't make sense in the Marvel or DC verses either, but then almost nothing in those worlds makes sense, so there's no problem.

I do use a similar but more limited set of laws in my home campaign, which does not take place in the CU.

In that campaign, there are vanishingly few individual Super-Criminals or Super-Organizations able to break through the security procedures the OSI has developed over the last 60+ years, Those that can will probably be able to learn your character's Secret ID no matter what you do.

If you want government support and law enforcement powers, you must register with and join the OSI. Your personal information and secret identity (if any) will be protected as carefully as possible, to the point where it will generally be more secure than it would be if you were opperating as a vigilante.

If you want to trademark your image and make money as a Super, you need a fictitious name license plus any licenses appropriate to your local area. You are required to give less information, and you get far less support.

If you don't care about money or government support but choose to act as a vigilante anyway, you are treated like any other citizen. The police are unlikely to go out of their way to catch you if you don't appear to be a danger, but evidence is often tainted by your involvement in a case, and you are not well trusted by officials even if you manage to become a media darling.

Most young Supers start out as vigilantes or criminals. As they get older, they tend to register in order to start legally earning a living with their powers; those who have a criminal record can generally bargain for community service rather than jail time, depending on their crimes. By the time they have a family to support, most supers retreat into low profile government service, low profile corporate emloyment, low profile criminal activities, or high profile non-adventuring positions in the media. There are always exceptions.

[OddHat]

I never liked the idea of the Marvel mutant thing and related registrations until after watching X-Men and thinking more about it. Then my supers campaign became all about that, but in a way, I hoped, more interesting and less superficial than the Marvel thing. So registration came along with it, not really sure about 5th edition as I don't use CU, but that idea. The act has been around since the 1950s during the mutant menace (red scare like thing) era, and enforced. In fact, the US has a threat system for supers (which I conceived btw before 9/11) which classifies them according to how dangerous they are. The most dangerous can be incarcerated without trial, only medical verification of their abilities is able to get around that abrogation of civil rights, and even that is sometimes successfully thrown out or forestalled. One of the issues of society is this rigid 1984 direction.

Although the campaign world has now changed. With mass mutations having occurred and the PCs' direct involvement in mutant relations (including putting pressure on government officials), the act is near repeal, and the tenor of the campaign itself is changing.


My own more limited set of laws are partially based on conscription laws, and follow roughly the same history. Those with Extraordinary Abilities in the USA have been subject to conscription on and off since 1812, and formally in peace time since 1940. Supers have not been subject to conscription in the USA since 1973. Other countries still practice universal conscription of Supers with varying success; more powerful and more subtle Supers only serve if they choose to serve.

I also use small business law and what I've been able to find on the regulations for private security firms.

[OddHat]

In the Civic Guard thread, I thought up this representive for D.C. hero. She's a lot grayer than I liked, but I thought it fit the 'feel' of the city. I may yet use her in my own games if I want to make a fuss over said Registration act.


Always liked this, but can't rep you again yet.

[incrdbil]

As GMs do you guys use it

ediited--as the thread necromancy was so good I'd forgotten I'd responded to it already :)

[OddHat]

ediited--as the thread necromancy was so good I'd forgotten I'd responded to it already :)

DOH! I missed the necromantic stink. :)

[Publius]

I agree that those with the "Patriot" advantage should either register or have a very good reason not to (like "flag not Administration" or somesuch) Also similar disadvantages and the like should be registered (like truthfulness). Hey, if nothing else it will count as another disadvantage right? Maybe even two, a Watched by Government and a Social Disadvantage as a Registered Superhuman.

As to the Act itself, I have to say that it is something that the non-powered humans would find very attractive for some of the reasons which Powerhouse mentioned. There has to be a great resevoir of jealousy and frustration (societal inferiority complex) which would make the Act a political bonanza for a deft demogouge (I meant "politician" of course). In periods of crisis some weird legislation gets attention and sometimes even passes, not because it is sensible but because it is popular (and those two things are oiften light years apart from one another). Look at some of the laws we have now, some of the pracitces of government -- and I think this is true whether you agree or not. Without a 9-11 event (and similar attempts were made under the last Administration after Oklahoma City) they would have been improbable if not impossible.

As to the laws feasibility, that really has nothing to do with passage. There are plenty of laws which have been passed which are unfeasible, unworkable or just plain bad ideas. The fact of the matter is that the 5e version of the SHRA takes that into account and as GMs we can choose to work it in or not as needed.

Personally, I'd use it as a plot device. Captured criminals of course go on the list, as do captured heroes who are vigillantes. I think that it can be mined for story ideas, whether to accomdate like Chimpira's example or to threaten. A former vigillante who has done their time and been registered (forcibly) and thus has a more-or-less Public ID would be an interesting character to play.

[OddHat]

I think a distinction also has to be drawn between (A) forcibly registering all superhumans and (B) requiring Supers to obey the same laws everyone else does, while assuming that those laws have evolved over the 60+ years that public Supers have been around in most settings.

Both have story potential, and option A is what most people think of when talking about registration.

Still, I like Option B. A country where gangs of masked men violently and annonymously dispense "justice" has its appeal, but in practice such countries are not happy places.

The two issues tend to be mixed in these discussions, not unlike most real world political debates.

[Publius]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, because the thread title was Registration in the 5th edition specifically, I thought it was taken for granted that the law was (as Champions Universe puts it) "toothless". There are two reasons given in that book: (1) it would be unpopular to go after popular heroes and (2) American interests would be weakened by aggressive enforcement. Often registration is the price of getting government Sanction. (CU, 35). Sounds like Option 'B' in the CU unless I am misreading your options Oddhat.

[OddHat]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, because the thread title was Registration in the 5th edition specifically, I thought it was taken for granted that the law was (as Champions Universe puts it) "toothless". There are two reasons given in that book: (1) it would be unpopular to go after popular heroes and (2) American interests would be weakened by aggressive enforcement. Often registration is the price of getting government Sanction. (CU, 35). Sounds like Option 'B' in the CU unless I am misreading your options Oddhat.

It's definitely closer to Option 'B' than 'A'. I think the essential problem I have with the CU brand is that the wording (iirc) calls for Superhumans to register rather than calling for Superhuman Crime Fighters to register, an important difference in principle even if in practice it's less of an issue. Add to that the fact that the CU has most of the Marvel Mutant-as-Minority thing going as well as the IHA and standard issue government conspiracies and it starts to carry a serious stink.

[Publius]

It's definitely closer to Option 'B' than 'A'. I think the essential problem I have with the CU brand is that the wording (iirc) calls for Superhumans to register rather than calling for Superhuman Crime Fighters to register, an important difference in principle even if in practice it's less of an issue. Add to that the fact that the CU has most of the Marvel Mutant-as-Minority thing going as well as the IHA and standard issue government conspiracies and it starts to carry a serious stink.Actually given the fact that the popularity of the registration act would be in its ability to restrain superhumans in general, I do not see the problem with a general registration. As written the government for example also requires supervillains to register. If it were only crimefighters, villains would not have to register but heroes would (legally speaking, I know that this sounds ignorant, but look at the courts now and the loopholes that are sometimes used).

As written for general registration I think it would make an excellent accompanying charge. Sort of "Yeah, we couldn't get him on the assault rap, but we managed to snag him for a violation of the Registration Act." (said no doubt with a smirk btw) It would also work for non-capes you want to blackmail into performing for you: "Mrs. Johnson, we know about your Psychometry, and the fact that you haven't registered your abilities with the proper authorities. Of course we might be willing to overlook this infraction if you say took hold of this piece of evidence for us..."

The Superhuman as minority thing is pretty standard really, I cannot see it changing because of the population numbers. The IHS and conspiracies just provide plot points, like registration they can be as much or as little as the GM likes and still fit well into the CU. I'm not saying that anyone has to like any or all of them, but as written I think they make useful devices that can be wratcheted up or down as desired for an individual campaign and still be recognizably the CU.

[McCoy]

In my world, it came about from the Reagan assassination attempt. The bullet that actually hit the president had bounced of a metahuman attempting to subdue Hinkley.

If a metahuman is arrested, a "Failure to register" charge can be added to any other charge, can be a pretext for denying bail, and, if convicted, can add a mandatory year to their sentence.

A blind eye is turned toward law-abiding metas who have not registered.

The only ones actually required to register are those working directly for the government, or seaking certain security clearances.

[TheQuestionMan]

Cheers

QM

[OddHat]

Actually given the fact that the popularity of the registration act would be in its ability to restrain superhumans in general, I do not see the problem with a general registration.

I partially disagree, but then my version of Superhuman Registration is based on the conscription model rather than a race law model. The purpose of that set of laws (not just a single act) was originally to guarantee that the government could call upon Supers in war time and (later) to counter Super Criminals at home. After the post-Vietnam gutting of those laws, the appeal was in the promise of a better trained, all volunteer supply of Supers for use at home and abroad.



It would also work for non-capes you want to blackmail into performing for you: "Mrs. Johnson, we know about your Psychometry, and the fact that you haven't registered your abilities with the proper authorities. Of course we might be willing to overlook this infraction if you say took hold of this piece of evidence for us..."

This is how I see the process working pre-Vietnam in my own campaign. Post 1973, Mrs. Johnson would be under no legal obligation to register, and would have access to the support needed to at least put up a legal fight if pressured.


The Superhuman as minority thing is pretty standard really, I cannot see it changing because of the population numbers.

It did not change in my campaign because of population numbers. It never worked as an analogy in the first place, Marvel Standard* or not, because minorities do not face oppression merely because they are "different"; they face oppression because they are vulnerable. Stretching that model to cover Supers can be done, but mainly relies on keeping Supers both numerous and on the average low powered. An angry mob can beat up Mrs. Johnson the psychomotrist, assuming she doesn't have the support of any even moderately powerful fellow Supers. That mob will break and run if Mrs. Johnson can bounce bullets, throw trucks and kill people with her eyes.


The IHS and conspiracies just provide plot points, like registration they can be as much or as little as the GM likes and still fit well into the CU. I'm not saying that anyone has to like any or all of them, but as written I think they make useful devices that can be wratcheted up or down as desired for an individual campaign and still be recognizably the CU.

I don't personally like or use those story elements, but tastes be tastes, and I'm not suggesting that those who like that model or those story elements are somehow "wrong".




*It never showed up in the Golden Age AFAIK, and it was never a big part of DC until the 1980s. However, it was arguably right there in Gladiator in 1930, so I can't say it's a recent addition.

[Publius]

Ah, I think I see. You feel that the Registration Act is akin to race-based prejudice, like the Japanese Internment or Black Codes as was the Marvel Model, an undisguised parallel to race issues. I would agree with you more-or-less if it were but I do not see the CU version of registration in that way at all (I of course could be entirely wrong here).

I see this sort of law totally differently, coming as a prophylactic for some folks who are dangerous* because of their differences not simply because they are different. Akin to "hands as lethal weapons" laws (which I know is a separate issue). First thing to remember here is that we are talking only about the CU (that is the title of the thread) using the printed material from Champions Universe. Of course anyone can use whatever rationale that would like for their own versions of registration, again just the printed one here.

On Page 35 of Champions Universe, the text states that the American response to superhumans was relatively "relaxed" until security issues started to come to the fore in the Cold War era. This is of course going on at the same time as the civil rights struggle, but the stated purpose of this effort is to catalogue superhumans for security purposes: the first DoD Superhuman Survey is in the early 70s and designates the threat level of a superhuman not in terms of their raw power but their potential threat to national security (Page 39).

The American Superhuman and Paranormal Registration Act (ASPRA) is not passed however until after Dr. Destroyer uses several superhumans as pawns in a bid to take over the United States. Dr. Destroyer had apparently manipulated these individuals behind the scenes, prodding them in such as way that their actions served his greater goals (this is supposition). The public response to this particular event provided the stimulus to the ASPRA. There was no hatred of the "muties" involved, but a specific response to a specific event that sowed fear into the hearts of the public. I've heard those laws sometimes pass without much debate. From there, sprinkle in what I have said previously about the feasibility of the act being inconsequential to the popularity of its passage and thus the carrot for our Pavolovian class of politicos. The fact that the text remarks that it is "toothless" allows it to be used or disused as preferred by individual GMs. All-in-all I think ASPRA as written is an elegant solution to both bowing to the trope and making it as inoffensive as possible both in terms of its rationale and its effect.

Like you, I feel there is nothing inherently wrong about using either the Marvel Model of race intolerant laws or laws such as I have outlined above. I just think of ASPRA (i.e. specifically the CU version) to be the latter rather than the former.


*True, it would be hard to say that the Psychometric's abilities are "dangerous", but because of the infinite variety of abilities in a superpowered world, the fact that she has extraordinary powers alone would be sufficient (that way you would not have to create all sorts of distinctions in the law that would be problematic in execution). In fact, the registration itself would be more a prophylactic for her in the legal sense as her abilities would be designated non-lethal, whereas the guy that spouts spikes would be designated as lethal. Mrs. Johnson would never have to worry about being labeled as "dangerous" if she registers...

[CBikle]

One thing about the whole "Supers Registration" type plot element is that, if the GM has it go into effect, odds are that it'll complicate the game if some of the PCs register and some don't.

For awhile, the GM might find himself running two separate games.

[Vorsch]

I feel aregistration act wkile sensible on paper would not work for a game premise, if by the very fact of being a Hero makes you a criminal (hero being defined as a super who battles Vilains whom conventional forces cant contain) then its not realy a champions game, more of a x-man game.

Also depend on the relative power level of heroes and vilains compared to conventional forces, can the law be enforced? if not the first time gravitar shows up she can pretty much do as she likes, with the hero just staying at home going "gee i dont want to break the law, let her destroy the whitehouse."

No ones going to arrest superman or god forbid martian manhunter, they simply cant be fought by any weapons in the human arsenal.

[zornwil]

It did not change in my campaign because of population numbers. It never worked as an analogy in the first place, Marvel Standard* or not, because minorities do not face oppression merely because they are "different"; they face oppression because they are vulnerable. Stretching that model to cover Supers can be done, but mainly relies on keeping Supers both numerous and on the average low powered. An angry mob can beat up Mrs. Johnson the psychomotrist, assuming she doesn't have the support of any even moderately powerful fellow Supers. That mob will break and run if Mrs. Johnson can bounce bullets, throw trucks and kill people with her eyes. (snipped)

In my world it changed a lot due to population. Up until the mass mutating accident in NYC, the number and measurement of existing mutants was somewhat achievable. The law was already broken from the perspective of being already somewhat widely disobeyed and difficult to enforce, but that event pretty much blew away the practicality of the law. Plus the numbers and sudden change called into focus and question the issue of depriving people of civil rights based solely on being a "potential" walking bomb. All that coupled with the multi-year (in real life) game direction per the PCs and as part of what had been a mounting mutant-human relationship flash point has basically been in end result a closing of this chapter, the basic acknowledgement that the genie is out of the bottle, in one respect, and that society ultimately will accept mutants, even if uncomfortably as real-world American society accepts African-Americans. Note if there are debates/issues with a comparison to real world, probably should be taken to NGD rather than debated here.

[zornwil]

One thing about the whole "Supers Registration" type plot element is that, if the GM has it go into effect, odds are that it'll complicate the game if some of the PCs register and some don't.

For awhile, the GM might find himself running two separate games.
We found it rather workable, but it resulted in one of the PCs being registered while others skirted it for a time until they were de facto registered, anyway. However the PC group ultimately was pressed into government service, it should be noted, as well, so that was the primary influence.

[zornwil]

Ah, I think I see. You feel that the Registration Act is akin to race-based prejudice, like the Japanese Internment or Black Codes as was the Marvel Model, an undisguised parallel to race issues. I would agree with you more-or-less if it were but I do not see the CU version of registration in that way at all (I of course could be entirely wrong here).

I see this sort of law totally differently, coming as a prophylactic for some folks who are dangerous* because of their differences not simply because they are different. Akin to "hands as lethal weapons" laws (which I know is a separate issue). First thing to remember here is that we are talking only about the CU (that is the title of the thread) using the printed material from Champions Universe. Of course anyone can use whatever rationale that would like for their own versions of registration, again just the printed one here.

On Page 35 of Champions Universe, the text states that the American response to superhumans was relatively "relaxed" until security issues started to come to the fore in the Cold War era. This is of course going on at the same time as the civil rights struggle, but the stated purpose of this effort is to catalogue superhumans for security purposes: the first DoD Superhuman Survey is in the early 70s and designates the threat level of a superhuman not in terms of their raw power but their potential threat to national security (Page 39).

The American Superhuman and Paranormal Registration Act (ASPRA) is not passed however until after Dr. Destroyer uses several superhumans as pawns in a bid to take over the United States. Dr. Destroyer had apparently manipulated these individuals behind the scenes, prodding them in such as way that their actions served his greater goals (this is supposition). The public response to this particular event provided the stimulus to the ASPRA. There was no hatred of the "muties" involved, but a specific response to a specific event that sowed fear into the hearts of the public. I've heard those laws sometimes pass without much debate. From there, sprinkle in what I have said previously about the feasibility of the act being inconsequential to the popularity of its passage and thus the carrot for our Pavolovian class of politicos. The fact that the text remarks that it is "toothless" allows it to be used or disused as preferred by individual GMs. All-in-all I think ASPRA as written is an elegant solution to both bowing to the trope and making it as inoffensive as possible both in terms of its rationale and its effect.

Like you, I feel there is nothing inherently wrong about using either the Marvel Model of race intolerant laws or laws such as I have outlined above. I just think of ASPRA (i.e. specifically the CU version) to be the latter rather than the former.


*True, it would be hard to say that the Psychometric's abilities are "dangerous", but because of the infinite variety of abilities in a superpowered world, the fact that she has extraordinary powers alone would be sufficient (that way you would not have to create all sorts of distinctions in the law that would be problematic in execution). In fact, the registration itself would be more a prophylactic for her in the legal sense as her abilities would be designated non-lethal, whereas the guy that spouts spikes would be designated as lethal. Mrs. Johnson would never have to worry about being labeled as "dangerous" if she registers...
It was really two issues conflated in my game, the racial and the security. I don't think they can be unentwined, either, as both are real issues that are truly linked. Not to suggest any one outcome or way of approaching it, or even stating that one can't run a world view successfully with only one aspect being under consideration.

[David Johnston]

I feel aregistration act wkile sensible on paper would not work for a game premise, if by the very fact of being a Hero makes you a criminal (hero being defined as a super who battles Vilains whom conventional forces cant contain) .

Why the apparent assumption that one cannot battle villains without keeping one's identity secret from the government?

[Duke Bushido]

I don't use it. I have never used it. It annoyed me in those X-men cartoons.

I try to keep an open mind when it comes to differences of opinion, as other perspectives will find other kinds of good, etc.

But for as long as I can remember, I have found the entire concept just stupid.

Yes, I know. That's not my usual open-minded let's explore this idea further self, but it's how I feel.

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

I put it down to a flash of Marvel envy or something during final edit, then calm myself by pretending it was all just a dream.....


:D

[David Johnston]

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

:D

Is that what Champions Universe billed itself as? I don't see how any specific game universe can. Now, personally I found it a pointless element just because it's a token gesture. So I suppose it is there as one of those things that you can totally ignore or rewrite into a big deal. But I think it's a waste of space even if it's just one line.

[Publius]

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

I put it down to a flash of Marvel envy or something during final edit, then calm myself by pretending it was all just a dream.....First, Re-read Page 5 Champion's Universe where is says something to the effect of 'if you don't like the relation between supers and government just tone that aspect down or throw it out.' All the vitriol in the thread overall seems excessive for something the text points out is optional and even if taken 'as is' is remarked on as being "toothless". Some folks, like myself, who would want to make this an aspect of the game ignore the "toothless" part and beef it up rather than strip it away. Heck, all you have to do to remove it is start one of your sessions off with a bunch of superhumans at a party celebrating "the end of that stupid law" and voila! it is done. No More ASPRA in your CU games.

Second, take a look at the last post I did on the subject, clearly marking how it is different from the Marvel version in both tone and function. The Marvel version is race-based (subspecies based?) the CU version is more like the USA PATRIOT Act than anything: specific incident creates (fearful) response. Dumb laws get passed all the time because politics is run by popularity contests rather than people in our society taking responsibility as citizens. Look at Copyright extensions deigned specifically to keep Mickey Mouse "safe" for Disney, Prohibition, the Eugenics Laws of the late 19th and early 20th century, Laws in seven states which outlaw heterosexual couples from co-habitating without benefit of marriage (ironically homosexual couples are protected by Lawrence v. Texas). That list is far far longer than the legs and arms of a basketball team.

BTW, are we still talking about Registration in the CU Universe in this thread? Most of these posts are about Marvel's version. If you don't want to use the Marvel version that is great, I thought we were discussing the 5th edition CU which is totally different.