Help Needed Completing a character

[weezel]

Hi. I have created my first Hero's character for a game but I need some help finishing it. I won't go into detail as to how I ended up with the character in the state it is in but suffice to say I now have a 200 pt chatacter with 150 pt disads (350 pt character) with Multiform with 350pt forms, instant change, and here is the part that is troubling me 16 forms. I have 4 done, I have a concept, I even have templates but what I don't have is ideas of the 12 more. I had the idea or him being based around 8 "Elements" (Earth, air, fire, water, mind, body, light, and shadow) I also had the concept that he would have fairly useless powers except the Shadow power to transform. Well after having the GM go over it I had spent too much on things and well all the extra points went to the Multiform. Now I have 2 forms for each of the elements, A beast form and a Man form. For the most part a lot of the character stays the same and only about 100 points if that change. I have the Beast and man forms for Fire and Shadow but don't have any others. Could someone please help. I will have the Templates I have made attached to this in Doc form so you can check it over. I really do need some help and I am at a loss. It has been hard enough trying to do it by myself since the GM felt that a superhero with useless powers was a bad character (personally I think it just adds to roleplaying opportunities and the ability to grow the character.) Also if you do post please don't use a lot of shorthand, I am not too familiar with the system so I won't understand. Also on the Beast Form I usually have Density Increase ((1,200 kg mass, +20 STR, +4 PD/ED, -4" KB), Reduced END (0 END, +1 (Both Size and STR)) Visible (-1/4) (40 Active Points)). But I didn't know if it would fit for all forms so it isn't in the template.

[Zed-F]

Without even looking at the sheet, my first suggestion would be that for your first character, a Multiformer is probably not your best option. They tend to get very complicated, as you've seen. Especially if you have 16 forms to manage!

If you want a shapeshifter, I would suggest instead just taking shapeshift, without changing the underlying character's abilities, or with an MP of abilities appropriate for how he can shapeshift. This will let you keep everything on one character sheet.

[odinraven]

Gonna have to agree with that dude ^ Multiformers are the stuff of vetren players and tackleing one with 16 forms is gonna be hell for you and the rest of the group cause of the time you'll have to take to figure things out. And while i agree with you that having SOME useless powers (at least combat useless) make for some interesting RP possibilities, spreading points like that is going to make you pull out your hair. try going with fewer forms, preferably MUCH fewer, and make them worth having. you'll thank me once you start playing.:thumbup:

[weezel]

Those are good ideas, and if I ever make another character I will probably use them but right now I have already played this character and frankly I want to finish it out of spite. The GM has ticked me off, constantly talked down to me for my character concept, basicly made it clear that he didn't think I could do it without his illustrious help. I will spite him and finish it. I don't mind the multiple c-sheets, in fact it actually in a way keeps it simpler for me. I print them all out, staple them and I only need to have the one sheet of powers out at a time. I will have this character. I will rain down on his superiority party. I will be victorious. I will continue to point out when he is wrong about the system. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!! Ok so this is a little for revenge but it is a heck of a revenge. Make the gm have to keep track of tripple the c-sheets he would otherwise have to, 17 times the ammount he should have to for any one character. I will kill him with paperwork!!!!! Muah ha ha ha ah!!!! Maybe I should stop playing a hero, I got the villian laugh down.

[weezel]

Oh BTW we have already started playing, Next game will be our 4th in fact. So far I have done fine dealing with the 5 forms I have done (Base, 2 shadow, 2 fire) pretty much any given game I only use my base and one form so it does keep confusion down. Also since I have elemental concepts it allows me to minimize the options.

[Zed-F]

I will have this character. I will rain down on his superiority party. I will be victorious. I will continue to point out when he is wrong about the system. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!
I hope you're not being serious here.

If you are going into the game with the idea of you vs. the GM, I heartily recommend you just drop the game and save yourself, the GM, and the rest of the players the torture.

Really, if the GM is pissing you off, and talking with him about it hasn't helped, then find another GM and another game. You don't go into a RPG to go to war with the GM. It's the GM's game, he will win, or you'll ruin everyone else's fun, or both. If the other players agree with you that the GM is being an a-hole, then get the group to nominate someone else to be GM.

If things aren't as bad as you've made them out to be, fine... but making a character deliberately unwieldy out of spite is not sound character design. :) Maybe you should try to make a nice clean simple design that fits what you are looking for first, before you complicate the heck out of it. ;)

[Zed-F]

Ok, for the file you attached, you only have Beast Template and Man Template, neither of which looks complete, and neither of which has your multiform cost added in. They also have all the same skills and stats, it appears. So I'm not sure what powers you were planning to include.

I will say that you seem to have no offensive powers on either template, but I guess you would have remedied that in each form (though I don't know how many points you'd have left after paying for the multiform itself, my guess is not many.) Also, your DEX is way too low for a 350 point game; he'll never be able to hit anything. In general you've spent way too many points on figured characteristics and not enough on primary characteristics.

Here's something for you to consider that might be close to what you're looking for, without the hassle of the multiform. If you're bound and determined to use a multiform, it will still give you a more effective base to work from -- just strip out the VPP and the shapeshift, and replace them with the multiform and the powers you've chosen for each form. I'll also note that VPPs themselves can be cumbersome to manage and you might be better off with a MP of your most commonly used abilities. It might even be cheaper, if there aren't a ton of them or if you have a limitation on the multipower that applies to all slots. I didn't spend all the points either in case something needs tweaking, for instance you might want a couple combat skill levels or whatever. And I think I forgot to buy up defenses (did this quick) but you can go ahead and use the spare points to fix that.


Elemental -

VAL CHA Cost Total Roll Notes
25 STR 15 25 14- HTH Damage 5d6 END [2]
23 DEX 39 23 14- OCV 8 DCV 8
23 CON 26 23 14-
15 BODY 10 15 12-
13 INT 3 13 12- PER Roll 12-
18 EGO 16 18 13- ECV: 6
13 PRE 3 13 12- PRE Attack: 2 1/2d6
12 COM 1 12 11-
5 PD 0 5 5 PD (0 rPD)
5 ED 0 5 5 ED (0 rED)
5 SPD 17 5 Phases: 3, 5, 8, 10, 12
10 REC 0 10
46 END 0 46
40 STUN 0 40
6 RUN 0 6" END [1]
2 SWIM 0 2" END [1]
5 LEAP 0 5" 5" forward, 2 1/2" upward

CHA Cost: 130

Cost POWERS
30 Shape Shifting: Shape Shift (Sight, Touch and Hearing Groups, any shape), Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (45 Active Points); Affects Body Only (-1/2) - END=4
4 Buoyancy / Shifted Flight: Usable As Flight (+1/4) for up to 12 Active Points of Running (6" ), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (4 Active Points) - END=0
5 Infrared Perception (Sight Group) - END=0
3 Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) - END=0
1 Mental Defense (5 points total) - END=0
- END=
100 Shifted Powers: Variable Power Pool, 50 base + 50 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (125 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Only Appropriate To Adopted Shape (-1/2) - END=
- END=
- END=
- END=
- END=

POWERS Cost: 143


Cost SKILLS
Everyman
0 1) Acting 8-
0 2) Climbing 8-
0 3) Conversation 8-
0 4) Deduction 8-
0 5) Language: English (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)
0 6) Paramedics 8-
0 7) PS 11-
0 8) TF: Everyman, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles
0 9) WF: Clubs, Fist-Loads, Thrown Rocks, Unarmed Combat

3 Acrobatics 14-
3 Concealment 12-
3 Contortionist 14-
3 Disguise 12-
3 Interrogation 12-
3 Persuasion 12-
3 Security Systems 12-
3 Shadowing 12-
3 Stealth 14-
3 Streetwise 12-
3 Teamwork 14-
3 Tracking 12-

0 Notes [Notes: I kept the same skills except for the Survival, which is IMHO a waste of 18 points that would be better spent on life support if you really want that sort of ability.]

SKILLS Cost: 36

Cost PERKS
3 Anonymity

PERKS Cost: 3

Cost TALENTS
0 Notes [Notes: I dropped Trackless Stride since it can be replaced with a VPP ability, and Lighting Reflexes since I boosted DEX to 23 to begin with.]

TALENTS Cost: 0

Base Pts: 200
Exp Required: 112
Total Exp Available: 0
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 312

[weezel]

Those are templates. the reason they are incomplete is because The powers are added to those. I was going to make a beast form and a man form based on those templates for the "Elements" of Water, Earth, Air, Mind, Body, and Light. Since those are not the base character they don't have multiform (Only the base character buys it). I may see about using your writeup however since some games have been played I doubt I could make such a drastic change. Also in the game that is being played most people are at a 5 speed, only a few are at 6. Honestly on the speed I think it should be taken down for the Templates as it should be the minimum for any shape and the Earth forms should be slow. The base stats are low for a reason, because it is based on the base body which is totally within human capabilities. Without changing his form he is completely unassuming and has no real powers. So if the stats on the forms should be higher then they should be added to. I felt that the fire forms should be faster so they have both more dex and more speed.

Next time we play I will see if I can go and redesign the character to keep with the concept but tweak the powers to put your suggestions into play but for right now I mostly need powers and additions to make this guy playable until all the players decide it is no longer worth it dealing with the GM. Truthfully I am tapped out of ideas for powers expecially ones that fit within the concept and within the point constraints. I don't know the system well enough to use Multipowers effectivly so that is another problem.

BTW no I am not joking and I am not the only one who feels the way I do about the GM. The reason that the game doesn't fall appart is that the players tend to steal the game away from the GM and run the Roleplaying without him (which the RP is our focus). The thing that annoys this GM the most is actually our going off and Roleplaying characters, To him the hight of gaming is rolling dice and keeping stats isn't it? So the very fact that we play and the Players get along and we have bigger plans than the next villan he sends at us is revenge, add on the fact that he can't stand being proven wrong (Though he is so often) and especially can't stand someone younger than him doing it makes me actually trying to push this thru so sweet a revenge. I have spoken to other players and if any of them feel that I am being disruptive I will hear about it. But seeing as in game my character has (and I have no clue how it happened) seems to have become the team leader I would guess that they are not having a problem with what I am doing. If it gets bad some one else will run, though I will have to say if it is me I am a Tri-Stat lover, BESM on up so I wouldn't be running Hero's at all, I just don't know the system as well as I do Tri-stat.

[Zed-F]

If this guy's gaming philosophy is so opposed to the entire group's, then you guys should probably find a new GM that suits what you want to do more. Give him a PC instead of a scenario to run and maybe he'll come around to see the value of the approach the rest of the group takes.

[weezel]

Don't worry about it, we have tried well everything and nothing has helped. But we know how to drive the stories ourselves and we are ready to do some fighting the bad guy we just create the opening and he can come in, present the guy we have to beat up, When we have beat him we are ready for more roleplaying so we take care of the problems that have popped up durring that fight and further along the plot. We know his tricks and we know how to get him to do what we want, to us that is better than dealing with a GM who we don't know how to direct. And as this is a gaming club on the books we don't have as much leway to throw people out and tell them they can't.

[weezel]

Well I made a character based on the suggestions I have gotten so far. I Reduced the Stats that were over 20 down, as he should at this point be within human ability, I upped the VPP to 60 pt pool, I couldn't find Buoyancy so I used Flight 1" Levitation (-1/2), I fugure that will allow him to stay aloft if he needs to change points around mid flight, It also give the visual of the hero stopping mid air and sending whatever off then continuing on. I also did some minor tweaking to the Perks to more accuratly depict where I want my character to be and have started the game with, Anonymity, Deep Cover, and Passport. I am very thankful for your help, a first character you always need some and as I couldn't get any this has been nice. I still do want to finish the Multiformed character just for my own Satisfaction. Also I could use some suggestions of Groups of powers to have with my VPP. Though I think with the freedom this build gives me I probably won't have to have them, but they would be good to have just in case I have a blonde moment

[Zed-F]

Buoyancy is just the name for the power, it's constructed as a naked advantage on running. Your levitation power is fine instead.

If the GM in question is happy with the VPP, you might try just describing what you want to do and let him worry about building the power, since he seems to be a numbers kind of guy. See what he thinks of that approach first.

If you reduced his DEX and CON, then you may want more combat skill levels and defenses to compensate.

[weezel]

I will probalby buy those up combat skills and such with EXP. I also have to see how he acts and works in combat to get an idea of where my shortcomings are. But offense and defense are easy to explain an increase with EXP, And it does give some story to play out too. I did pay the points and keep the SPD at the same and I did increase PD and ED too so that should help out.

[Trencher]

I have not read the whole thread but you could mix the different elements to find more forms. Water plus earth is mud, fire plus earth is lava and so on.

[Badger]

Could dump mind and body parts. 12 forms still is a pretty hefty thing to work with.

So along Trencher's thinking we have

fire-earth= lava
water-earth= mud
air-earth= a sandstorm?

water-fire= steam?
water-air= fog?

fire-air= a bigger fire?

I'm not good at this.:o

[levi]

You should buy Hero Designer. You can make packages that will make this SO much easier. Also you could forego the Multiforms and buy your Powers with Variable SFX, limited to 8 elements or combos thereof. However since you have stated that you are playing this character out of spite for the GM, I doubt you will do this. If you'd like help with the Var SFX version, I would be glad to whip one up for you,

[weezel]

Wouldn't the Var SFX affect a single power, So if I had an energy blast that had a variable SFX it could represent a fireblast, a water, ect...? It would mean that all the powers would be the same for the different "Forms". At least that is how I read it in the limited time I had to. That really doesn't represent my character though. Personally I feel that each "Form" should have seperate powers to define them. It is more of the idea that each element has it's strengths rather than each element does the same thing in a different way (though that may also be true). I think I will try to see if the GM will allow the VPP concept earlier since that will allow the Greatest flexibility in my character building (one of the major advantages I wanted the character to have). I am borrowing a copy of the Hero Designer from a friend who isn't using it (actually I am borrowing his laptop so I don't even have to install anything.) It has helped tremendously with the math and calculating costs. Honestly I just am a fish out of water that somehow fumbled my way to the vicinity of where I have been going. I really appreciate the suggestions though, it gives me ideas for if I need to make another character.

[weezel]

Well he said no to the character with the VPP. He doesn't want to deal with them. Of course he doesn't apperently want to be bothered with running either. All the characters where sitting around waiting over an hour then when I finally say ok why don't you pass out the character sheets? He says Well I don't think anyone is up to playing tonight. So I came home. Now I am printing out a module for a game and I will run because if he isn't willing to I will. I would still like help with the other forms on the multiform though. Now I am more determined than ever. Even some suggestions of powers would be great.

[Zed-F]

How about you look in the USPD for some sample powers? If you don't have the USPD, you can look at the online USPD for an example of what kinds of things it contains. The online USPD contains quite a few sample powers itself and the book has more.

http://www.herogames.com/USPD/thedatabase.htm

[Trencher]

Well he said no to the character with the VPP. He doesn't want to deal with them.
----
Even some suggestions of powers would be great.
build it as a multipower have seperate special effectss for each elemtal attack.

[weezel]

Thank you very much for the link for the USPD. I don't think I will pick up the book but the website was very useful. Once I have time to work on the characters again I will send out the files and ask for more suggestions. Also if you have any suggestions of powers I am still willing to hear them out. The more unique the better. I will probably be using the various power frameworks on Some of the characters but I am not sure how many. You know I really wish that he had allowed the VPP it would have simplified things for everyone. Oh well I guess I will just have to keep working on all the c sheets.