Asian Bestiary... I mean Bestiaries

[buzz]

Just wanted to mention that I literally did a double-take (no pun intended) when I saw that Asian Bestiary had been divided into two books.

Wow.

"Hero Games: Page counts that throttle the imagination." :thumbup:

[Vanguard00]

Hrm. Two volumes. This might be the first hiccup in my ultimate devotion to DoJ publishing...

Eh. I'll reserve judgment til the release. But I hope the individual volumes are priced appropriately (and maybe a small bundle discount when purchased together from DoJ directly?)

[Lord Liaden]

Well, do we know yet approximately how many pages each book will have? And would it be appropriate to ask what the price of each is likely to be? (Not legally binding, of course.) ;)

[Edsel]

I actually perfer smaller books. I am a boring enough person that I often read game books, instead of novels, at night. I like my 5ER but that monster is hard to read in bed. (I know that doesn't say much for my sex life).:o

I am really looking forward to these books being the nutty anime fan that I am. I like most of Susano's write-ups that I have seen.:thumbup:

[Jeff T.]

I was happy to see that something has been moved ahead of the essentially useless Everyman (the day I need a book about 'average-stat-guy' is the day I give up gaming) only to be disappointed it was replaced by an Asian Monster book, errr...make that TWO Asian monster books.

:straight:

:straight:

:straight:

...and people want this???? Has the obsessed-by-all-things-Asian-crowd really become that influential? Uggh. :thumbdown

Well, at least Champs Worldwide comes out next week....

[Silverbullet]

Hey, I for one was pretty happy to see this! I love the Asian beastiary concept and was happy to see Hero Games put the effort in… Thanks guys.

To be fair, though, I’m hoping for 2 BIG books. I don’t mind spending the money as long as there’s a lot of information…
:thumbup:

[Fur Face]

I seem to remember Asian Beastiary was supposed to be a E-book download. Does this mean they've made it to hard cover?

I'm really looking forward this, hardcover or otherwise. :-) It would be nice to not need D20 conversions.

[Steve]

I've been looking forward to this, too. I was astonished that it was deemed big enough to split in half.

[rayoman]

I would have preferred Cyber Hero over an Asian Monster book. IF I pick up the Asian Bestiaries then it will be after I have bought The Spacer's Tool Kit, Alien Wars, The Combat Handbook, The Equipment Guide, Valdoran Age, Turakian Age books PLUS any new Champions Book that hits the store shelves.

I am sure the books will be quality books but I don't desire a book of this type. IMO, I would rather see The Ultimate Speedster, The Ultimate Power Armor, The Ultimate Weapon Master, The Ultimate Mentalist and The Ultimate Metamorph come out before any other book. I am a superhero guy though so I am a little biased.

[Teflon Billy]

I'm going to have to pipe in and say that I'd have preferred a pair of generic monster books, over a pair of asian monster books.

I'll buy these books, as I've bought everything else that Hero has produced. But I'm not a big fan of asian {whatever} for the most part. I do not see the appeal of asian culture in general, I find it boring. A large volume of traditional fantasy monsters (emphasis on monsters, things for the players to kill. Not parlay with, not sympathize with their misguided culture, not come to understand, etc...) would have peaked my interest more. This is somewhat of a gripe against MMM and HSB as well, at least half if not more of the MMM are nothing more than anthromorphs of some sort or another not monsters.

I want to see a medium/large sized book of monstrous animals, killer plants, oozes, and other fantasy terrors. If it's capable of meaningful speech with the Characters, it shouldn't be in this wished for monster book.

TB --I am still perfectly happy with DoJ, I love your products and will continue to buy them. Just voicing a preference is all.

[L. Marcus]

Hm . . . Don't really know what to feel about the split. But it doesn't really matter, because I'll buy both, anyway - I promised Susano! :D That will eat up the most of my gaming budget for a good while, since my kendo gear is starting to cost money - I've gotta buy a set of keiko-gi and hakama, not to mention the armor . . . !

[Super Squirrel]

Here is how I'm looking at it.

Susano started out doing a "Monster" book for Ninja Hero. The books is sufficient enough that it has been broken down into regions of the world. The books are not very high on the list of usefulness but don't get me wrong, I think it is a very good book. In theory, Hero Games could later release a European Monster book, an African Monster book, etc.

These books can be used for an assortment of Genres from Fantasy Hero, Ninja Hero, Post Apoc Hero, Horror Hero, and maybe even Pulp Hero.

[L. Marcus]

. . . There's the Celtic Bestiary coming up next year . . .

[Super Squirrel]

. . . There's the Celtic Bestiary coming up next year . . .
I'd really like an African Beastiary at some point personally. There are some nice monsters from my encounters in research.

[L. Marcus]

An example! I demand an example! *picture trenchers avatar here*

[Super Squirrel]

The Nandi Bear
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/siren/552/af_nandi.html

[L. Marcus]

Neat! Thanks!

[HewhoisMatt]

I really think this book is gonna bomb and I don't say that to be mean but I just can not see there being that many gamers that are gonna lay out the cash. I think it would have been better to have made one huge international book then two whole books on nothing but asia.

[buzz]

Wow. I'm really amazed at the amount of griping in this thread. Gamers never cease to amaze me.

[Teflon Billy]

Wow. I'm really amazed at the amount of griping in this thread. Gamers never cease to amaze me.Uh, maybe it's because some of us aren't so anamored with "wonders" of the orient.

Like I said in my post, I plan on purchasing these books, but I'd have preferred two generic monster books.


You haven't been a gamer very long if you find a little griping to be something amazing to behold.

TB

[Andrew Cermak]

Like I said in my post, I plan on purchasing these books, but I'd have preferred two generic monster books.


...to go with the two we've already got?

Besides, I'd wager these monsters port to generic fantasy settings readily enough. If you don't tell the players that the monster they're fighting comes from, say, Burmese legends, how are they to know? It's not like they've got "Asian" stamped on their foreheads.

[Susano]

Uh, maybe it's because some of us aren't so anamored with "wonders" of the orient.

Like I said in my post, I plan on purchasing these books, but I'd have preferred two generic monster books.


Let me say this -- many of the monsters are nasty, angry, soul-eating/blood-drinking/flesh-eating supernatural horrors that will make excellent foes for FantasyHero/Pulp Hero/Ninja Hero games.

[Fitz]

I can't say I'm surprised at the *****ing and complaining about anyone having the gall to put out source books that aren't directly related to some people's favourite genre, but just because it wasn't unexpected doesn't make it any the less pathetic and mean-spirited.

Personally I have very little interest in campaigning in an Asian milieu, but I'm looking forward to seeing these bestiaries; in my view you can never have too many monsters. I'm sure they'll fit right in.

[HewhoisMatt]

Let me say this -- many of the monsters are nasty, angry, soul-eating/blood-drinking/flesh-eating supernatural horrors that will make excellent foes for FantasyHero/Pulp Hero/Ninja Hero games.


Susano even with the little I know about you I am sure the books will be top of the line. I just worry about Hero as a publisher and and am not sure there will be enough over all interest in these books to make it worth while to put them out.

[Teflon Billy]

Let me say this -- many of the monsters are nasty, angry, soul-eating/blood-drinking/flesh-eating supernatural horrors that will make excellent foes for FantasyHero/Pulp Hero/Ninja Hero games.I will say that this statement is heartening to read.

I may be a little biased about the whole subject and hopefully these two books will change my opinion on the matter. My primary frame of reference was the Kara-Tur Monstrous Compendium, which in my mind seemed to be nothing more than an endlessly repeating list of Onis and "spirit" based monsters that came off as nothing more than "ghosts" with some silly emotional conflict (usually on something that is of grave importance to someone from the orient but ends up boiling down to some picayune inanity for someone not intricately versed in the subtleties of the culture. Such as the evil-ghosty witnessed their lover holding their tea cup in the wrong way in front of their house pet and were driven to ritual suicide due to the immense loss of face this would engender.) It ended up being filled with stuff that I just couldn't sink my teeth into.

I await the products with a monicum of antisipation, you have done quality work on your website and through your contributions to this board comunity so I will trust to your abilities to produce and deliver.

TB

[Jeff T.]

I can't say I'm surprised at the *****ing and complaining about anyone having the gall to put out source books that aren't directly related to some people's favourite genre, but just because it wasn't unexpected doesn't make it any the less pathetic and mean-spirited.

This is the only pathetic and mean-spirited thing I've seen in this thread. Nobody was insulting until you. Yeesh. :rolleyes:

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm curious how well the Arcane Adversaries spin off did, compared to larger books that covered the full topic. Hero Games knows how that worked out. I suspect if it bombed, it would have gone the way of the .pdf line after Shades of Black.

I agree that two volumes of asian beasts seems like a strange move. I assume that Hero has thought it through.

My guess? The people who really want Asian monsters are going to buy one big, or two small, volumes. Those who didn't want an Asian monster book anyway won't be buying either, and woulnd'y have bought one large book. At the FLGS, two books may mean more frontage and an extra sale from the impulse buyer, but likely not a lot.

Overall, my guess is that sales will be pretty similar. The question here, at least to me, isn't "Is splitting this into two books wise", but "Is the market for an Asian beastiary wide enough to make publishing that book wise?"

For everyone that says "I don't want two books", there will be someone who would have said "I would have bought a smaller book, but this one is too expensive".

I will buy them, because I use fantasy creatures, and Hero always provides a quality product. I wouod encourage those who don't want a book of Asian monsters to leave this one on the shelf. If it sells as well as every other Hero book, it will doubtless be deemed a success. If it sells poorly, it will be deemed a failure. If it outsells the average release expect Vol 3 and/or the 2 volume "African Beastiary" to follow.

[Nolgroth]

I dunno. I am kinda looking forward to the Asian Bestiaries. I have been fascinated a little by the Far East and yet have remained largely ignorant of its history and past cultures. While I don't think that an RPG supplement will be able to enlighten me whole cloth, HERO has published some darn fine supplements that have pointed me on the road to finding out more about the subject.

And, as pointed out earlier, you can never have too many monsters. :)

My one and only concern is that the critters inside will be "scaled" for Champions level games, leaving the Fantasy and Pulp genres out in the cold.

[Lord Liaden]

I really think this book is gonna bomb and I don't say that to be mean but I just can not see there being that many gamers that are gonna lay out the cash. I think it would have been better to have made one huge international book then two whole books on nothing but asia.

Well, we are talking about Asia here; by far the largest continent on the planet, with some of the oldest and culturally richest civilizations. Even without including the Middle East the thirteen nations/regions covered represent an incredibly diverse spectrum of traditions.

Having followed some of the discussions and requests for assistance that Mike Surbrook has posted to these boards over the past year, I'm convinced that these books will include a ton of critters that most of us have never even heard of before, including some that by Western traditions seem extremely bizarre. IMO it's premature to say that they will hold no interest or use for our particular campaigns or genres. Heck if they seem "alien" enough they could easily become inhabitants of our homebrew fantasy worlds, Lovecraftian horrors in pulp games, or alien races for our scifi campaigns. And a few that I've seen described here certainly sound tough enough to take on superheroes. (On a personal note, I'm hoping for recruits for Dr. Yin Wu's army of monsters.) ;)

As far as dividing the material into two books goes, page count will decide for me whether I think it's the right move. If we would have ended up with 400 pages total - which isn't impossible, considering that every beasty will need some type of illustration, and that the traditions of each country will probably require a bit of textual explanation - that would probably have been too intimidating for many buyers.

[buzz]

Uh, maybe it's because some of us aren't so anamored with "wonders" of the orient.
Does that really necessitate being so hard on DOJ and the product? I have no interest in, say, the Old West, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get all chicken little or publicly down in the dumps when DOJ releases Western HERO. DOJ has such a good track record that I look forward to it, becasue if anyone can get me interested, it's Steve and co.


Like I said in my post, I plan on purchasing these books, but I'd have preferred two generic monster books.
Well, these won't be the last monster books they produce. Soon we'll have a HERO library of monster tomes that you'll be able to look at with awe, knowing it covers everything you could think of.


You haven't been a gamer very long if you find a little griping to be something amazing to behold.
24 years. :)

It's more the constant amazement than this particular instance. Some may consider what Fitz said to be insulting, but it contains a germ of truth. The sentiment being displayed here is "No matter how good the product may be, it's of no direct relevance ot my personal tastes, thus DOJ is doing something wrong." You're absolutely right when you say this is a common thing. It disappoints me nonetheless.

I'm no Orientophile, but as someone who's family is half Punjabi, I'm really glad to see that DOJ realizes there's more to Asia than just Japan. Seeing that these books will cover so many lands is, to me, exciting.

[Jeff T.]

It's more the constant amazement than this particular instance. Some may consider what Fitz said to be insulting, but it contains a germ of truth. The sentiment being displayed here is "No matter how good the product may be, it's of no direct relevance ot my personal tastes, thus DOJ is doing something wrong." You're absolutely right when you say this is a common thing. It disappoints me nonetheless.

DOJ is not WOTC...when they throw pointless (personal opinion) books in the schedule others get pushed back. I've read the sentence you have in quotes over and over and still can't find anything wrong with someone making that statement. Everyone SHOULD say this...it is called feedback. If I am wrong and most people actually want an Asian Monster book ahead of, say, a worthy Champions product then life goes on...but I'm still allowed to respectfully say I don't like it.

...and the assumption that because I say I don't agree something should be made and/or that I've put no other thought into my statements other than to just whine because I'm not 'getting my way', as well describing the naysayer's statementis as *****ing, complaining, pathetic, and mean-spirited IS insulting. Not to mention the hypocrisy involved in the declaration.

Nobody called DOJ or Steve Long stupid, nobody said DOJ only makes idiotic decisions, none of the naysayers 'whined' or insulted. More specifically, my statement was actually questioning that I might be out of touch with what the majority wants and I even ended it with a positive remark about a DOJ product. Teflon Billy, another naysayer, made several positive comments in his initial statement as well.

Honestly, perhaps some folks should deal with their own 'sensitivity issues' before they confuse respectful negative feedback with 'griping' and '*****ing'.

[Robert Harrison]

Having seen the table of contents for this book(s), I believe that Surbrook's Asian Bestiary is going to have cross-system utility, much like a GURPS sourcebook - that is, gamers other than just HERO gamers are going to be purchasing it (them). :thumbup:

And I'm not just saying that because I live in Surbrook Country. :D

[buzz]

I've read the sentence you have in quotes over and over and still can't find anything wrong with someone making that statement.
You can't find something wrong with equating not meeting your personal needs with poor business judgement before having even seen the product in question?


Everyone SHOULD say this...it is called feedback.
Is it useful or constructive feedback, though? Maybe, I dunno.


Honestly, perhaps some folks should deal with their own 'sensitivity issues' before they confuse respectful negative feedback with 'griping' and '*****ing'.
I guess I'm still confused as to how calling an upcoming release "pointless", "gonna bomb", and "Uggh" is all that respectful. As well as how questioning said feedback is insulting.

But, yeah, I guess at the very least they're opinions, and DOJ can make use of them as they will.

[buzz]

Something else to keep in mind is that the Asian Bestiary is actually a pretty unique product in the current marketplace. I can't think of any other companies currently offering a comprehensive bestiary based on authentic Asian mythologies. Sure, there may be some Asian-themed RPGs out there (or, mostly, anime-themed RPGs), products dealing with Asian folklore tiself are pretty few and far between.

Ergo, this product could carve a niche for itself. "Malaysian monsters? You shoudl really check out the Asian Bestiary for HERO."

[Citizen Keen]

If I am wrong and most people actually want an Asian Monster book ahead of, say, a worthy Champions product then life goes on...

Well, I am not "most people," but I will readily choose any Non-Champs product over a Champs product. So, as far as Asian Bestiary goes, GO DOJ!


As far as dividing the material into two books goes, page count will decide for me whether I think it's the right move.

I agree with everyone's statement in these regards - I will be more likely to pay for this product if the combined price merits the combined content. If it's a 300 page book for $55 (two 150 page books at $27 each), I'm going to buy whichever one looks like it has better stuff. If it's a 400 page book at $45, I'll buy both.

[Basil]

...the essentially useless Everyman (the day I need a book about 'average-stat-guy' is the day I give up gaming)...

I guess you never saw Normals Unbound. That book was marvelously useful, full of ideas and plot hooks. After looking through it, I doubt anyone who call such a work "useless," or say they'll give up gaming if it proves useful to them. ;)

Believe me, "normals" books are terrific, and I'm sad DOJ still hasn't gotten any of them out.


I do find myself in agreement with those less than pleased with the latest news. I don't think splitting the AB into two books is wise, nor necesary. I'm sure it could've been trimmed to fit into one book, and as MitchellS had pointed out, customers will be paying for two cover and set-up fees (and other base costs every book has in&of itself). As well, while it could be useful for many, it is still something of a niche product, and I don't know if its potential market has room for two books, particularly coming out at the same time.

[Blue]

I'm just waiting for the hard-backed edition covered in ancient dragon-skin

[Jeff T.]

Is it useful or constructive feedback, though? Maybe, I dunno.

Darn, DOJ is making an Asian Bestiary book.
Yay, DOJ is making an Asian Bestiary book.

What's the difference? One's negative, the other's positive. I guess as long as you feel the positive one isn't useful or constructive either, then I can't really argue with you.


I guess I'm still confused as to how calling an upcoming release "pointless", "gonna bomb", and "Uggh" is all that respectful. As well as how questioning said feedback is insulting.

I don't feel those words equate to insults, DOJ and its staff is not personally attacked or even mentioned...and again, the statements were intermixed with positive remarks. We're apparently not on the same page...questioning negative feedback is not insulting, equating the negative feedback to &#$&$ing and complaining and declaring it pathetic and mean-spirited is insulting.

[Jeff T.]

I guess you never saw Normals Unbound. That book was marvelously useful, full of ideas and plot hooks. After looking through it, I doubt anyone who call such a work "useless," or say they'll give up gaming if it proves useful to them. ;)

I will admit to finding those areas of Normals Unbound to be somewhat useful and it was a decently-written product. However, coming up with stats for Everyman is easily done on my own and paying $20-25 dollars just to get a few pages of plot ideas/hooks centered on normals is just not worth it. That's essentially what I get when looking through the DNPC section of Villainy Amok.

[HewhoisMatt]

Sorry I guess I was not PC enough. Let me try again.

I fear that a book (or books) of this nature will not do well in the RPG market place at this time. This is not ment as a slight or insult against anyone working at or with Hero on this or any other project, nor the people of Asia. I do however hope the book (or books) is a huge success and will be followed by many more.

[CSgeekHero]

I've been looking forward to the Asian Bestiary all year. Now, knowing that it has gotten so stuff full of monsterous goodness that they have to split it into two books, I am totally psyched.

I'm no orientphile. These gems will seem quite alien to most players. As primarily a sci-fi gamer, they will be most useful in this area. I can also imagine uses for games like Pulp Hero and Fantasy Hero. Plus, the unknown factor could be useful for some GM's in springing them on unsuspecting players in a future Horror Hero adventure.

As a side note:
Some people are looking forward to Champions Worldwide.

From the Champions releases page:
Champions Worldwide: Superheroes and supervillains exist around the world, not just in the United States. Champions Worldwide provides details about superhumans and superhuman activity in other parts of the world, such as Europe and Asia. It includes character sheets for lots of new Champions characters, both villains and NPC heroes.

If people are looking forward to a book that includes superheroes from Asia, why wouldn't you want a book or two of local monsters to fight?

[KawangaKid]

Sorry I guess I was not PC enough. Let me try again.

I fear that a book (or books) of this nature will not do well in the RPG market place at this time. This is not ment as a slight or insult against anyone working at or with Hero on this or any other project, nor the people of Asia. I do however hope the book (or books) is a huge success and will be followed by many more.

Hm... as someone from Asia (and therefore qualified to speak on behalf of all Asians -- shyeah right) I'm surprised at the anti-asia mythology reaction.

When I was living in the U.S. I hadda go to hole-in-the wall stores and RPG outlets to get any information on asian critters... or anime & manga for that matter. Now I understand with the Manga invasion this may not be the case.

Is this a backlash against the influx of Asian movies & anime influences? Or an oversaturation of the market? Or has the pendulum really swung the other way and European creature source material is now lacking?

Personally, I'm eager to see the bestiary continue as a series. I think a "monster-hunter" dark champions / pulp hero type campaign ala Hellboy would benefit from it...

... that and the fact that even in the Philippines, source material on our tikbalangs, manananggals and bakunawas are limited indeed. This may be because of the so-called "colonial mentality" my country is quite fond of things American... though there's been an influx of Korean, Taiwanese and HK films in recent years.

Attached below is a rendition of a Tikbalang by local artist Arnold Arre (http://www.arnold-arre.com/).

[buzz]

Sorry I guess I was not PC enough.
Being PC has nothing to do with it. Sheesh.

Disinterest != negativity. I was just questioning the need for the latter, not denying anyone the right to express the former. Playing the PC card is unnecessary.

[buzz]

Or has the pendulum really swung the other way and European creature source material is now lacking?
Nope. Anime is everywhere. Actual info about/based-on Asia, however, is still scarce, particularly anything beyond Japan and China.

[Super Squirrel]

Sorry I guess I was not PC enough. Let me try again.

I fear that a book (or books) of this nature will not do well in the RPG market place at this time. This is not ment as a slight or insult against anyone working at or with Hero on this or any other project, nor the people of Asia. I do however hope the book (or books) is a huge success and will be followed by many more.
I don't see how a generic monster book would do any better. I mean, why wait to buy a generic monster book when I can step into my FLGS and pick up one of six different generic monster books and take the extra five minutes per monster to throw together a quick conversion. Or I could spend twenty minutes if it is a conversion and export for a webpage.

But what I don't see in my FLGS is an Asian Bestiary.

[HewhoisMatt]

I don't see how a generic monster book would do any better. I mean, why wait to buy a generic monster book when I can step into my FLGS and pick up one of six different generic monster books and take the extra five minutes per monster to throw together a quick conversion. Or I could spend twenty minutes if it is a conversion and export for a webpage.

But what I don't see in my FLGS is an Asian Bestiary.

I'll tell you what I see in my FLGS, 50% off sales on all RPG books including Hero cause no one is buying anything. I'm not saying there are not people who want this book or that no one will buy it. I am saying I don't think enough people will buy it for Hero to make back the time and cash they put in to it. My work takes me all over the SouthWest and everywhere I go gaming stores are dropping like flies. Even here in Vegas you can count all the shops on one hand, and the best one is having one of those 50% off sales I mentioned. I just think a big international book would sell more than a book about just Asia. I hope every book Hero puts out sells like hotcakes but the market does just not seem to be there. Blame it on card games, online games, or even Clix games but the fact remains we are a dying breed and we can only buy so much to support the games we love.

[Susano]

Having followed some of the discussions and requests for assistance that Mike Surbrook has posted to these boards over the past year, I'm convinced that these books will include a ton of critters that most of us have never even heard of before, including some that by Western traditions seem extremely bizarre. IMO it's premature to say that they will hold no interest or use for our particular campaigns or genres. Heck if they seem "alien" enough they could easily become inhabitants of our homebrew fantasy worlds, Lovecraftian horrors in pulp games, or alien races for our scifi campaigns. And a few that I've seen described here certainly sound tough enough to take on superheroes. (On a personal note, I'm hoping for recruits for Dr. Yin Wu's army of monsters.) ;)


Right on all counts. I was very pleased to "discover" some very strange creatures, and when discussing them with a friend (as in "ever hear of an "X"? No? Let me describe it."), our common opinion was "that's some messed up stuff right there!" Oh, and Dr. Yin Wu's army will have more recruits than you'll know what to do with.

[Susano]

I may be a little biased about the whole subject and hopefully these two books will change my opinion on the matter. My primary frame of reference was the Kara-Tur Monstrous Compendium, which in my mind seemed to be nothing more than an endlessly repeating list of Onis and "spirit" based monsters that came off as nothing more than "ghosts" with some silly emotional conflict (usually on something that is of grave importance to someone from the orient but ends up boiling down to some picayune inanity for someone not intricately versed in the subtleties of the culture. Such as the evil-ghosty witnessed their lover holding their tea cup in the wrong way in front of their house pet and were driven to ritual suicide due to the immense loss of face this would engender.) It ended up being filled with stuff that I just couldn't sink my teeth into.

Steve's other comment on the project was he wanted to see me out-do anything done before as a gaming supplement. One thing I used as a "reference" was Jade Dragons and Hungry Ghosts which I wasn't impressed with as many of the monsters were... D&Dized. I tried to use the stuff "straight-up" presenting as close to the "folkloric truth" as I could, because I saw no need to artificially "pump-up" creature stats, powers, and motivations, when the core concept was nasty enough as is.

As to your other comment, yes, there are multiple Oni, multiple ghosts, and different forms of ghouls and other undead. But in many cases, I present (or did in the original manuscript) the core character sheet and then a selection of options with packages for creating the options.

Motivations for being a ghost can vary: rape, murder, improper burial, insanity, suicide, and so on. Things gamers can understand and GMs can use to present interesting encounters. I also comment that not all ghosts need to be fought -- contrary to The Ring :D, helping a ghost (by resolving the situation that caused it to become a ghost) is often the way to defeat it. Unless of course, it's a blood-thirsty monster, in which case it's time for sutras, ofuda, and ghost-busting Taoists priests to get into the act! :yes:

[Susano]

My one and only concern is that the critters inside will be "scaled" for Champions level games, leaving the Fantasy and Pulp genres out in the cold.

*carefully hides character sheet for AB critter with a STR of 275....*

[Susano]

Attached below is a rendition of a Tikbalang by local artist Arnold Arre (http://www.arnold-arre.com/).

These are in the book. :D

In fact, due to KawangaKid's information, I was able to find a titled Creatures of Philippines Lower Mythology and loot if for all it was worth. So, I think you'll be happy with the result.

[Susano]

Best reason yet to buy the Asian Bestiary: Name another HERO product that will contain the Special Effect of Enormous Scrotum Multipower!

:D

[L. Marcus]

Oh
My
God?









I just hope that it's not the one with 275 STR . . . :eek:

[Susano]

Oh
My
God?

I kid you not! :D

[L. Marcus]

. . . Urutsukuduju just flashed past my eyes, and I got scarred again . . . :nonp:

[Susano]

. . . Urutsukuduju just flashed past my eyes, and I got scarred again . . . :nonp:

Ewwwww....

[L. Marcus]

Yup.

[BlackSword]

I've been looking forward to the Asian Bestiary all year. Now, knowing that it has gotten so stuff full of monsterous goodness that they have to split it into two books, I am totally psyched.

I'm no orientphile. These gems will seem quite alien to most players. As primarily a sci-fi gamer, they will be most useful in this area. I can also imagine uses for games like Pulp Hero and Fantasy Hero. Plus, the unknown factor could be useful for some GM's in springing them on unsuspecting players in a future Horror Hero adventure.
This is what I am looking forward to, presenting something that is outside the norm that most gamers are not familar with. It will be great for SciFi, Fantasy, and just about every other genre. Also I will never complain about a book full of pre-made adversaries. I am not a collector so I only buy books that I am interested in, this will definitaly be a buy and handy for pre-made enemies (with minor modifications). As previously mentioned, its not like the monster have a stamp on their butt that says, "Made in Taiwan" the only way players will know its an asian monster is if the GM describes it as, "A creepy asian monster."

Also I am impressed with the thorougness that Susano is going through for this book. Most asian themed books in the rpg market have used a shallow understanding so it will be nice to see something different.

[Susano]

Also I am impressed with the thorougness that Susano is going through for this book. Most asian themed books in the rpg market have used a shallow understanding so it will be nice to see something different.

You should see the bibliography. :)

Tobin's Spirit Guide was especially useful!

[Super Squirrel]

I'll tell you what I see in my FLGS, 50% off sales on all RPG books including Hero cause no one is buying anything. I'm not saying there are not people who want this book or that no one will buy it. I am saying I don't think enough people will buy it for Hero to make back the time and cash they put in to it. My work takes me all over the SouthWest and everywhere I go gaming stores are dropping like flies. Even here in Vegas you can count all the shops on one hand, and the best one is having one of those 50% off sales I mentioned. I just think a big international book would sell more than a book about just Asia. I hope every book Hero puts out sells like hotcakes but the market does just not seem to be there. Blame it on card games, online games, or even Clix games but the fact remains we are a dying breed and we can only buy so much to support the games we love.
Ah but I look at that this way. Hero Games survived the roar of the d20. It survived the economy crunch. It survived the crash of d20. It survived the roar of MMorphs.

Hero Games is not a popular product, nor has it ever been. It is, however, durable through the times. People do buy books that aren't in the game system they use. And there are a significant number of people who like all things Asian. I don't think this book is going to hurt the company at all.

[buzz]

I'll tell you what I see in my FLGS, 50% off sales on all RPG books including Hero cause no one is buying anything. I'm not saying there are not people who want this book or that no one will buy it. I am saying I don't think enough people will buy it for Hero to make back the time and cash they put in to it. My work takes me all over the SouthWest and everywhere I go gaming stores are dropping like flies.
This is a larger industry-wide (if not general American economy-wide) issue that will not change regradless of whether DOJ releases a two-volumne Asian bestiary or some hypothetical product that HERO fans would have no reservations about purchasing. It has nothing to do with there being less compellign RPG product out there (it's quite the contrary), but that the role and sustainability of RPG brick-and-mortar stores is changing. Copanies with far bigger fanbases than HERO are feeling the same pinch.

[yamamura]

I for one has been looking forward to this/these book(s) for over a year. I am hoping that Susano can throw some creatures from Japan that I have never heard of before;) From what I know of Susano's other endeavors, I know the material will be well researched and interesting. So no more translating monsters from Sengoku (even though they have nice small collections of monsters) and other books, instead I will probably be using AB to translate into other systems:)

[buzz]

I don't think this book is going to hurt the company at all.
Not to mention, a bestiary in general is going to have cross-genre appeal. Champions, Fantasy HERO, Pulp HERO, Dark Champions, horror, and other campiagn types can mine it for material.

[buzz]

The assumed winter outlook does not look good for many consumers. Home heating prices are going up 50-70% which means the November, and beyond, fuel bills are going to be substantial for many people.
The economy has been in far worse shape in recent years. If DOJ made it through those times, they can make it through these.

I'd be curious to know if DOJ had any demographic data available to show whether the majority of their fanbase would even see this as an issue. It may very well be; I'm just curious. When talking about luxury items, this is often worth considering.


Splitting the books costs DOJ substantially more money to produce them then it would cost to make them a single large volume. Paying $35.00 for one large book is easier for gamers to swallow then paying $60.00 for two niche books as well. The difference between $28.99 and $34.99 is negligible to a gamer compared to the difference between $34.99 and $57.98. By splitting the books you're also just forcing many gamers to choose one book over the other.
I'm not sure how one can cite cost of production as a negative in the same paragraph as citing increased cost for the consumer. I mean, DOJ now gets to receive more money per page of content than if they had released a single book. The odds that those who would have bought the single volume will buy the two-volume is good, IMO.

On top of this, I don't really agree with your assesment of how consumers see prices. I think Joe Gamer is going to balk more readily at a single book, no matter how thick, in the $60 price range than two books in the more common $30 price range. It doesn't matter what they add up to; it matters that each one looks like a reasonably-priced RPG book.

I would also think having the choice to only get the book of most interest to you (say, Indian monsters and not Japanese) is an enticing option, as well as being able to buy each book as one is able to afford it.

I dunno. I see gamers gripe about fat books that are too expensive, and I see gamers gripe about thin books that should have been rolled into a single, fat book. Someone's going to gripe no matter what. the AB fills a niche in the HERO product line, and is worthy of DOJ's effort.

I'm goign to end up buying some N number of HERO books in a given year anyway. One volume or two, all I really care about is quality.

...and given Susano's scrotum comment earlier, I'm pertty much sold on these books. :D

[Jeff T.]

I will agree, after reviewing others comments, that this book could still be introduced in a generic fashion thus increasing its usefulness even though most things with an Asian-flavor generally don't interest me personally.


The economy has been in far worse shape in recent years. If DOJ made it through those times, they can make it through these.

I agree this is not an 'economy' issue.



I'd be curious to know if DOJ had any demographic data available to show whether the majority of their fanbase would even see this as an issue. It may very well be; I'm just curious. When talking about luxury items, this is often worth considering.

I'm curious about this as well. I wonder how feasible/useful it would be for DOJ to put out polls to guage the level of interest in certain items. Some might question their accuracy, but it could be useful if done the right way.


I dunno. I see gamers gripe about fat books that are too expensive, and I see gamers gripe about thin books that should have been rolled into a single, fat book. Someone's going to gripe no matter what.

...and someone's going to praise no matter what as well. These statements appear to be 'weary-generalizing' on your part. Do you tire of (supposedly) thoughtless praising as well? Honestly, sometimes it appears that there are people that will buy a 300 page book on the mating habits of the platypus if DOJ writes it. How 'useful' are the comments of that crowd?

However, if a clear majority is leaning one way or another (even if their specific statements aren't necessarily constructive in and of themselves) there is still something to be learned from this.

Respectful negative opinions must be heard.

[Susano]

...and given Susano's scrotum comment earlier, I'm pertty much sold on these books. :D

I even checked with Steve to make sure it was an acceptable entry.

[Susano]

Oh
My
God?









I just hope that it's not the one with 275 STR . . . :eek:

No. Mr. 275 STR has other, equally nauseating powers.

[L. Marcus]

. . . That thing has more points than a Low-Powered Superhero in Strength alone - and still has other, nauseating powers?

Sweet Baby Jeebus . . . The PCs better start running now . . . ! :eg:

[buzz]

I'm curious about this as well. I wonder how feasible/useful it would be for DOJ to put out polls to guage the level of interest in certain items. Some might question their accuracy, but it could be useful if done the right way.
I'm pretty sure that DOJ already uses the forums here to gauge fan interest in some of their products, hence the "What would you like to see in X?" threads Steve posts. Even so, only so many HERO players frequent the boards, and only so many of them actively comment on threads such as these. I can see it being useful data, though not definitive data.


...and someone's going to praise no matter what as well. These statements appear to be 'weary-generalizing' on your part. Do you tire of (supposedly) thoughtless praising as well? Honestly, sometimes it appears that there are people that will buy a 300 page book on the mating habits of the platypus if DOJ writes it. How 'useful' are the comments of that crowd?
...
Respectful negative opinions must be heard.
Sure, unnecessary praise can be tiresome as well. I nonetheless find it far less disheartening than people who feel the need to post what a bummer it is that a company is putting out a great product in which they simply have no interest.

But, sure, when respectful and constructive, negative commentary is useful, too. Look for threads on DC:tAS and you'll see me doing it, too. :) I waited until I had actually read the book, of course.

[Susano]

. . . That thing has more points than a Low-Powered Superhero in Strength alone - and still has other, nauseating powers?

Sweet Baby Jeebus . . . The PCs better start running now . . . ! :eg:

When you're 700 miles long, you have stats like that, y'know. :D

[Captain Obvious]

Honestly, sometimes it appears that there are people that will buy a 300 page book on the mating habits of the platypus if DOJ writes it.

Well, I was wondering how I was going to use Seduction in my Monotreme Hero game....

[ghost-angel]

I didn't read the whole thread ... but I will say that Monster books (of any nature) have not only cross Genre appeal but cross system appeal. Someone playing another game may be able to use a very extensive Asian Beastiary collection in their BESM game, or even an Ortiental Campaignsi n D20. The one thing I've always been disappointed with are systems that produce Monster Stat Books with maybe a paragraph on what the thing is like. Hopefully the Asian Beastiary books set a new standard.

[Susano]

I didn't read the whole thread ... but I will say that Monster books (of any nature) have not only cross Genre appeal but cross system appeal. Someone playing another game may be able to use a very extensive Asian Beastiary collection in their BESM game, or even an Ortiental Campaignsi n D20. The one thing I've always been disappointed with are systems that produce Monster Stat Books with maybe a paragraph on what the thing is like. Hopefully the Asian Beastiary books set a new standard.

IMO, the book should be useful for people playing BESM (especially any ghost/monster hunter setting -- such as HELLSING), FENG SHUI, LEGEND OF THE FIVE RINGS, ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (or whatever the official D20 supplement is these days), GURPS: HELLBOY, SHADOWRUN, RIFTS, KINDRED OF THE EAST, as well as PULP HERO (several creatures worthy of a Tom Slick expedition are in there), FANTASY HERO, and, of course, NINJA HERO (especially anything dealing with fantasy China or supernatural elements), .

[LeftWingPenguin]

Personally, I'm really looking forward to this. The amount of information available from RPG sources concerning authentic asian monsters/spirits/etc. is extremely low. The fact that some love is being given to asian cultures other than China and Japan is equally nifty. I know I'll probably read them as much for the folklore they contain as for the game stats.

One of the reasons I'm really starting to get into HERO (other than the amazingly flexible gaming system) is the array of amazingly useful sourcebooks, most of which contain information other publishers just don't cover.

[Super Squirrel]

I'll probably be picking up the one that includes Japan first. But as I plan to eventually own every product released, I'll definitely get both at some point in time.

[Darren Watts]

Hrm. Two volumes. This might be the first hiccup in my ultimate devotion to DoJ publishing...

Eh. I'll reserve judgment til the release. But I hope the individual volumes are priced appropriately (and maybe a small bundle discount when purchased together from DoJ directly?)

They'll be $24.99 each, and we'll almost certainly have a Ben's Bundle deal in the store for both (and maybe a Surbrook Madness bundle adding Ninja.) dw

[Mark Taylor]

Too bad I recently wrapped up my Ninja HERO Martial Arts 'n' Magic campaign. This will probably make me want to run another one.

[Susano]

They'll be $24.99 each, and we'll almost certainly have a Ben's Bundle deal in the store for both (and maybe a Surbrook Madness bundle adding Ninja.) dw

Mad? You call me Mad!

That does it!

They dared to call me MAD! I'll show them!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

**Cue flash of lightning and dramatic music.**

[Susano]

Hopefully the Asian Beastiary books set a new standard.

Based on Steve's request to basically blow all other Asian monster books out of the water, I really went to town in some of the textual descriptions. In many cases I describe how something is created (example: improper burial), how it can be delayed (example: scatter seeds for it to count), and how it can be put down/appeased (example: fire). In some cases I give details on how to summon the creature in question (example: not given as many involve things done to corpses) and what use it might be put for (anyone running an Asian sorcerer, especially in a Pulp-era game will have a lot of fun here!). For several creatures I even give uses for the body parts (i.e. medicinal curatives). Hopefully Steve will keep all of this -- and based on the decision to split the book into two parts, it sound like he is.

As to scope, I can honestly tell you I have no idea how many creatures are in the book(s). I lost count. Also, the countries listed only scratch the surface -- in many cases I note how the creature (with only a name change) can be used somewhere else. In addition, many entries come with lists of optional powers as well as numerous "subtract this, add this" packages allowing one to build variants of the core entry. The final creature count I once estimated as merely "hundreds," with a count of something like 600+ named creatures with at least a sentence or two of description.

People, if you don't care for Asia, fine. If you don't like monster books, fine. But if you're looking for a source of non-traditional monster ideas, spell concepts, fantasy races, and what not -- give this book a try, don't dismiss it as yet another attempt to cash in on the anime/manga craze. And don't let "non-traditional" scare you into thinking "so bizarre I won't be able to use it" -- the book has plenty of ogres, giants, dragons, ghosts, ghouls, spirits, divine beings, infernal beings, vampires, and witches, albeit with somewhat different trappings and special effects. I should know, I spent 2+ years researching and writing it. :)

[Mark Taylor]

Even if it ran to FIVE volumes, I'd buy all of them. Hell, I'd probably buy ten.

[Teflon Billy]

Based on Steve's request to basically blow all other Asian monster books out of the water, I really went to town in some of the textual descriptions. In many cases I describe how something is created (example: improper burial), how it can be delayed (example: scatter seeds for it to count), and how it can be put down/appeased (example: fire). In some cases I give details on how to summon the creature in question (example: not given as many involve things done to corpses) and what use it might be put for (anyone running an Asian sorcerer, especially in a Pulp-era game will have a lot of fun here!). For several creatures I even give uses for the body parts (i.e. medicinal curatives). Hopefully Steve will keep all of this -- and based on the decision to split the book into two parts, it sound like he is.

As to scope, I can honestly tell you I have no idea how many creatures are in the book(s). I lost count. Also, the countries listed only scratch the surface -- in many cases I note how the creature (with only a name change) can be used somewhere else. In addition, many entries come with lists of optional powers as well as numerous "subtract this, add this" packages allowing one to build variants of the core entry. The final creature count I once estimated as merely "hundreds," with a count of something like 600+ named creatures with at least a sentence or two of description.

People, if you don't care for Asia, fine. If you don't like monster books, fine. But if you're looking for a source of non-traditional monster ideas, spell concepts, fantasy races, and what not -- give this book a try, don't dismiss it as yet another attempt to cash in on the anime/manga craze. And don't let "non-traditional" scare you into thinking "so bizarre I won't be able to use it" -- the book has plenty of ogres, giants, dragons, ghosts, ghouls, spirits, divine beings, infernal beings, vampires, and witches, albeit with somewhat different trappings and special effects. I should know, I spent 2+ years researching and writing it. :)Please do not take my griping to mean that I do not want these books. I love monster books of all kinds, I am quite proud of my complete collection of AD&D 2nd Ed Monstrous Compendiums. Any monster books is a good enough monster book for me in the long run.

Just form what you have written here I can see that these books will go a long way past the one to two dimensional asian monster books I have read in the past.

I will be one of the first to purchase when they become available.

TB --I would still have preferred a more generic fantasy bestiary. But I will take any monster book done in Hero over anything else.

[buzz]

I would still have preferred a more generic fantasy bestiary. But I will take any monster book done in Hero over anything else.
Well, at least you can look to the HSB, MM&M, and the upcoming Celtic Bestiary. And, who knows? Perhaps the AB will set a precedent for more, incredibly-well-researched bestiares that focus on yet more parts of the world and its mythologies. Africa (sans Egypt) is almost untouched in RPGs, and then there's the Americas and Eurasia. heck, I'd love to see a thorough, accurate (as in not just D&D-style) take on Eurpoe's monsters, too.

Susano! Get back to work!

[Teflon Billy]

Well, at least you can look to the HSB, MM&M, and the upcoming Celtic Bestiary. And, who knows? Perhaps the AB will set a precedent for more, incredibly-well-researched bestiares that focus on yet more parts of the world and its mythologies. Africa (sans Egypt) is almost untouched in RPGs, and then there's the Americas and Eurasia. heck, I'd love to see a thorough, accurate (as in not just D&D-style) take on Eurpoe's monsters, too.

Susano! Get back to work!Except, that's not what I said I was looking for. I said a Fantasy Bestiary. Meaning monsters as they appear in modern Fantasy. Not a Historical/Mythological Bestiary, though I will take those too.

TB

[buzz]

Except, that's not what I said I was looking for. I said a Fantasy Bestiary. Meaning monsters as they appear in modern Fantasy.
Isn't that pretty much what HSB and MM&M are?

[Teflon Billy]

Isn't that pretty much what HSB and MM&M are?HSB was good, but I want more. MMM, like I said earlier, had two many anthropomorphic races instead of monsters to satisfy my craving.

I'd love to see a volume the size of the HSB devoted to trully mundane creatures though. But to include dinosaurs and other megafauna so it has some meat to it as well. Sort of a Pulp Hero Big Game Hunter's Guide if you will.

A modern fantasy monster volume, should just have reams and reams of exactly that: Carnivorous Plants, a dozen different kinds of slimes, molds, jellies (all with different powers and weaknesses), Were-beasts galore (not just those fitting the historic framework though. I think sometimes the monsters hold too closely to the historic roots instead of going beyond them.)

TB

[Susano]

Well, at least you can look to the HSB, MM&M, and the upcoming Celtic Bestiary. And, who knows? Perhaps the AB will set a precedent for more, incredibly-well-researched bestiares that focus on yet more parts of the world and its mythologies. Africa (sans Egypt) is almost untouched in RPGs, and then there's the Americas and Eurasia. heck, I'd love to see a thorough, accurate (as in not just D&D-style) take on Eurpoe's monsters, too.

You mean this: HERE THERE BE DRAGONS: A MEDIEVAL BESTIARY (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/myth/dragons/heredragons.html)?

[Teflon Billy]

You mean this: HERE THERE BE DRAGONS: A MEDIEVAL BESTIARY (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/myth/dragons/heredragons.html)?Yes, but 30x bigger and published (like, on paper) and more than just historic fantasy medieval, but fictional fantasy medieval.

You think that would satisfy my hunger for monsters?! Please. :tonguewav

TB

[Vanguard00]

Based on Steve's request to basically blow all other Asian monster books out of the water, I really went to town in some of the textual descriptions. In many cases I describe how something is created (example: improper burial), how it can be delayed (example: scatter seeds for it to count), and how it can be put down/appeased (example: fire). In some cases I give details on how to summon the creature in question (example: not given as many involve things done to corpses) and what use it might be put for (anyone running an Asian sorcerer, especially in a Pulp-era game will have a lot of fun here!). For several creatures I even give uses for the body parts (i.e. medicinal curatives). Hopefully Steve will keep all of this -- and based on the decision to split the book into two parts, it sound like he is.

See, now this stuff is a definite plus. Sometimes there's an entire plot in that sort of thing, especially for the Dark or Fantasy campaigns.

Hopefully Steve will keep that kinda stuff in the books. I'll be much more likely to buy 'em if it has these extras.

[buzz]

You mean this: HERE THERE BE DRAGONS: A MEDIEVAL BESTIARY (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/myth/dragons/heredragons.html)?
Booyah!!!

I agree with TB, here. Take this and make another phat HERO supplement.

[Steve Long]

Hopefully Steve will keep all of this

Well, all the references to "machine gun" have been changed to "pizza oven."

[Vanguard00]

Well, all the references to "machine gun" have been changed to "pizza oven."
Got one of those standard S-1798s handy, do ya?

[Susano]

Well, all the references to "machine gun" have been changed to "pizza oven."

And all references to "oil" have been changed to "The Black Blood Of The Earth."

Rep to the first person to guess the origin of that line!

[ghost-angel]

And all references to "oil" have been changed to "black blood of the Earth."

Rep to the first person to guess the origin of that line!
Big Trouble in Little China.

And it's not oil, it's "The Black Blood Of The Earth!"

[Susano]

Big Trouble in Little China.

And it's not oil, it's "The Black Blood Of The Earth!"

Your rep, good sir, has been applied.

[Vanguard00]

But no one gets the M*A*S*H reference...

:rolleyes:

Philistines...

[ghost-angel]

But no one gets the M*A*S*H reference...

:rolleyes:

Philistines...
No one offered rep up for that one..... :D

[Basil]

. . . That thing has more points than a Low-Powered Superhero in Strength alone - and still has other, nauseating powers?

Sweet Baby Jeebus . . . The PCs better start running now . . . ! :eg: When you're 700 miles long, you have stats like that, y'know. :D Oh, the Midgard Serpent's baby brother!

Hey, wait, that's European!



/me suspects it's one of the major Chinese dragons.

[L. Marcus]

. . . Mind is still reeling . . . 55d6, Megascale Area Of Effect, Megascale Reach . . .

Think about it: Fifty-five BODY on an average Roll! A friggin' elephant's got thirty BODY!

[Bazza]

Am I the only one interested in the looking at the bibliography? After 2 years of research and I'm sure Michael found quite a lot of obscure books, magazine articles, news reports (?). It's a "textbook with gaming stats"™, added in for good measure, I tell ya!


"Enormous Scrotum Multipower" should be on the back cover with the idea that those people who occassionly look at HERO books (ie GURPs players) will see it, look through the book to find described, and see how good the rest of the book is. They will tell their friends to look at it, and by word of mouth the flexibility of the HERO System is exposed to those [RIFT players] who have little interest in HERO. In other words make sure "Enormous Scrotum Multipower" is on the back cover and make the back cover the front cover. ;) :D

I recall reading that Michael saying that his next book (or genre book can't reall correctly) was going to be a researched and detailed as the new standard of HERO -- PULP HERO. By the sound of this book, Michael has got his wish.

Sounds like an awesome book(s).

[Captain Obvious]

In other words make sure "Enormous Scrotum Multipower" is on the back cover and make the back cover the front cover ;) :D


"Hero System Asian Bestiary, Volume 2: Enormous Scrotum Multipower"

[Susano]

Oh, the Midgard Serpent's baby brother!

Hey, wait, that's European!



/me suspects it's one of the major Chinese dragons.

Nope. Not even the Ryu or the Lung are reputed to be that big. The only hint I will give is that creature in question is not from China and does live in the sea. Oh, and I basically describe is as more of a plot device than anything else.

[Susano]

I recall reading that Michael saying that his next book (or genre book can't reall correctly) was going to be a researched and detailed as the new standard of HERO -- PULP HERO. By the sound of this book, Michael has got his wish. .

Hmm... I think you're mixing up some statements of mine. I did give high praise for the level of research and detail present in PULP HERO and have stated that I wish I could "know then what I know now" about book layout and design when I wrote NINJA HERO, as it would look more like FH or PH in content (especially when dealing with character design, archetypes, packages, and the like).

[L. Marcus]

Nope. Not even the Ryu or the Lung are reputed to be that big. The only hint I will give is that creature in question is not from China and does live in the sea. Oh, and I basically describe is as more of a plot device than anything else.
Great A'Tuins's kid brother.

[Susano]

Great A'Tuins's kid brother.

Hmm... not familiar with "A'Tuins."

[L. Marcus]

Me feverish.. Me no spell good.

[Susano]

Me feverish.. Me no spell good.

Well, based on this statement:


You don't read Discworld? Terry Pratchett is da Man!,

I presume A'Tuins is the turtle the elephants stand on who support Discworld? That taken from.... some Indian mythos IIRC.

And no, I don't read Pratchett -- except for Good Omens and only because Gamian was co-writer.

[L. Marcus]

How so?

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm not a big Asian fan, so my knowledge is limited, but a huge turtle (large enough that they commonly get mistaken for islands, especially when they take a several hundred year nap allowing idrt to collect on their backjs, trees to grow in the dirt, etc.) springs to mind.

[Susano]

I'm not a big Asian fan, so my knowledge is limited, but a huge turtle (large enough that they commonly get mistaken for islands, especially when they take a several hundred year nap allowing idrt to collect on their backjs, trees to grow in the dirt, etc.) springs to mind.

That sounds like Aspidochelone.

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/myth/dragons/fastitocalon.html

[Mark Taylor]

Hmm... not familiar with "A'Tuins."

Great A'Tuin is from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. It (nobody knows its sex) is the world turtle, who carries the entire world on its back. Well, technically it carries four giant elephants on its back, and they carry the world on theirs.

[FenrisUlf]

. . . Urutsukuduju just flashed past my eyes, and I got scarred again . . . :nonp:

What's that?

[FenrisUlf]

... that and the fact that even in the Philippines, source material on our tikbalangs, manananggals and bakunawas are limited indeed. This may be because of the so-called "colonial mentality" my country is quite fond of things American... though there's been an influx of Korean, Taiwanese and HK films in recent years.

Attached below is a rendition of a Tikbalang by local artist Arnold Arre (http://www.arnold-arre.com/).

Just what are those three things? Is one of them the local 'hairy biped'?

And I'll gladly buy both ABs, as I (a) need flunkies for Doctor Yin Wu, and (b) I want to see just how the book covers the various versions of kumiho/kitsune/huli jing found in folklore.

[KawangaKid]

Just what are those three things? Is one of them the local 'hairy biped'?

And I'll gladly buy both ABs, as I (a) need flunkies for Doctor Yin Wu, and (b) I want to see just how the book covers the various versions of kumiho/kitsune/huli jing found in folklore.

Ah - the Tikbalang should be in the Asian Bestiary... it's the biped creature with the horse head. It's an interesting creature given that horses aren't native to the Philippines. The Spaniards brought the horses over along with the Catholic religion if memory serves.

The manananggal is a nasty creature and should be in the book too. By day, its usually a beautiful woman, by night it separates from its lower half... and a flying female torso with bat wings flies about to feast on... well... a victim that I won't cover on these kid-friendly boards.

The bakunawa is a giant sea creature so large that it can allegedly swallow the sun whole. Possibly akin to other giant sea creatures in norse and hebrew mythology.

[Steve Long]

Not to worry -- the Filipino section (which'll be in AB2) is plenty long (fourth longest in the overall manuscript, in fact) and covers plenty of stuff. :hex:

[Susano]

What's that?

Hentai anime dealing with a lot of demons, tentacles, rape, exploding people, and the end of the world.

I have seen the first 5 episodes (out of who knows how many now), and can say it is XXX-rated material unlike anything you've ever seen before. It does have some interesting characters, however (specifically Amano Jako, his sister Megumi, and "Sweetkakaju" (phonetic spelling), the demon prince).

[Susano]

(b) I want to see just how the book covers the various versions of kumiho/kitsune/huli jing found in folklore.

I think you'll be highly satisfied by the treatment given.

[Susano]

Not to worry -- the Filipino section (which'll be in AB2) is plenty long (fourth longest in the overall manuscript, in fact) and covers plenty of stuff. :hex:

See previous quote about finding the book Creatures of Philippines Lower Mythology. :)

[Greg]

Best reason yet to buy the Asian Bestiary: Name another HERO product that will contain the Special Effect of Enormous Scrotum Multipower!

:D


Not sure if the aforementioned creature is a Tanuki, but that's my theory as to why Disney hasn't released Pom Poko yet. Those crazy Japanese.

[FenrisUlf]

I think you'll be highly satisfied by the treatment given.

I'm sure that I will. And pardon me if this has already been addressed, but roughly when is the book due out?

[FenrisUlf]

Ah - the Tikbalang should be in the Asian Bestiary... it's the biped creature with the horse head. It's an interesting creature given that horses aren't native to the Philippines. The Spaniards brought the horses over along with the Catholic religion if memory serves.

The manananggal is a nasty creature and should be in the book too. By day, its usually a beautiful woman, by night it separates from its lower half... and a flying female torso with bat wings flies about to feast on... well... a victim that I won't cover on these kid-friendly boards.

I think I'll have some fun referencing this book for Pulp occult investigators of the Wellman/Lumley variety.

And concerning the manananggal, maybe you could PM me the info that's not 'kid safe'?

[Susano]

I'm sure that I will. And pardon me if this has already been addressed, but roughly when is the book due out?

No idea. Steve will be able to answer that in due time.

[Susano]

I think I'll have some fun referencing this book for Pulp occult investigators of the Wellman/Lumley variety.

And concerning the manananggal, maybe you could PM me the info that's not 'kid safe'?

Hmm.... to be blunt, a lot of things in Asian myth/folklore feed on/attack pregnant women and/or infants.

[Steve Long]

when is the book due out?

Well, right now I'm still doing editing and developing. Hopefully that'll all be done by the end of next week, depending on how long it takes me to finish reviewing the UMM layouts. Then the two books will sit in the layout queue until Andy finishes with MM and other such tasks. Then he'll lay them out in order, 1 and 2, and we'll go through the whole production process. So, it'll be a couple of months yet, minimum, before they're likely to hit game store shelves -- there are too many variables, esp. with the holidays coming up, for me to be more specific than that right now.

[FenrisUlf]

Okay, thanks. Probably be best for me if they hit the stores after the holidays, as then I'll be able to spend the money on them.

[Susano]

If you're ever in Maryland, let me know. I'll sign them. :D

[NestorDRod]

Hello, out there.

As you can see from my post count, I post here once in a blue moon, but I felt it was important to chime in here.

First, I happen to be the friend Mike referred to as being the recipient of some of his detailed descriptions of the creatures that can be found in the Bestiary, so I can say as a first-hand witness, they can truly be the stuff of fevered dreams. I also helped him obtain some of the source material he used, so I can attest to the excellent level of research that went into the book. My Amazon recommendations list will never be the same. :D

Having seen Mike go through the 2-year long process of putting this baby together, I can share with you the following insights about the book, or I should say, books:


This is not just another anime sourcebook. In this case the term "Asian" is most definitely not limited to China and Japan.
The creatures listed in the book are not fanciful write-ups based on just a name or a picture. I saw Mike agonize over adding potential creatures to the book because he didn't feel he had enough data to provide a proper write-up.
The write-ups are extensive, not just a bunch of numbers. As the man himself said, he puts in a lot (you could say a plethora) of background information about each creature, including alternate abilities and creatures that share characteristics. This is where the cross-game appeal of the book really comes to light.


Personally, I believe the AB books stand to become invaluable reference for GMs looking for material not only across the genres, but even across game systems as well. And I'm not saying that just because I happen to game with the author. ;)

[Basil]

I presume A'Tuins is the turtle the elephants stand on who support Discworld? Actually, it's "Great A'Tuin", hence L. Marcus's comment about his spelling.

Great A'Tuin is the "astrochelonian" upon whose back stand Berilia, Tubul, Great T'Phon and Jerakeen, the four elephants who bear the Discworld.


That taken from.... some Indian mythos IIRC. Might be India, I don't know. Pratchett borrowed from all over.


And no, I don't read Pratchett -- except for Good Omens and only because Gamian was co-writer. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
Personally, I think Gaiman is all pose and pretense, and Good Omens the worst thing Pratchett ever was associated with. Still, to each his own, de gustibus, and YMMV. ;)

[Lord Liaden]

Traditional Hindu cosmology presented the world as being flat and supported by four elephants on the back of a giant turtle swimming in an infinite ocean. I'd have to look up the names for this menagerie, but it's a little late tonight. :)

[Susano]

Actually, it's "Great A'Tuin", hence L. Marcus's comment about his spelling.

Yeah, I read that as "Great, A'Tuin...."

[Susano]

First, I happen to be the friend Mike referred to as being the recipient of some of his detailed descriptions of the creatures that can be found in the Bestiary, so I can say as a first-hand witness, they can truly be the stuff of fevered dreams.

Actually, you're one of two. Max and Alex in Australia would often ask what the newest entry was (via ICQ), and I'd usually reply with "Ever hear of an X?" The answer was usually no, so I'd do my best to describe what I'd discovered so far, only to hear "That's pretty weird." Sometimes I'd ask them for ideas on power builds as well (but then, astute observers of these boards may well have picked up on me doing the same thing here).


Having seen Mike go through the 2-year long process of putting this baby together, I can share with you the following insights about the book, or I should say, books:


This is not just another anime sourcebook. In this case the term "Asian" is most definitely not limited to China and Japan.
The creatures listed in the book are not fanciful write-ups based on just a name or a picture. I saw Mike agonize over adding potential creatures to the book because he didn't feel he had enough data to provide a proper write-up.
The write-ups are extensive, not just a bunch of numbers. As the man himself said, he puts in a lot (you could say a plethora) of background information about each creature, including alternate abilities and creatures that share characteristics. This is where the cross-game appeal of the book really comes to light.


Point two is very true. I often found myself annoyed and/or grumbling over not being able to find more about something. Moghir (a supposed Mongolia dragon) is one. I saw it in the old GURPS Fantasy Bestiary and never found another reference. I even wrote the author, only to be told he'd forgotten. So I had to scratch Moghir off the list. And he wasn't the only one.

On the flip side, both the GURPS Fantasy Bestiary and Jade Dragons and Hungry Ghosts did help me get the names of some creatures, which I was then able to add to the final product. Of course, when dealing with Jade Dragons and Hungry Ghosts I also found out exactly how many of the entries were entirely fictional (Bamboo Elves, anyone?), or which ones had been heavily modified to make them into "monsters." The latter part annoyed me, as often powers and/or abilities were added that the creature never had, or seemed to be a suspicious interpretation of the source material.

Anyway, as I said before, the bibliography should provide plenty of sources for people to do further research. In fact, one of the books listed is basically a period Chinese bestiary, and I could have created an entire HERO book based just on what I found in it.

[Admiral C]

I have a question. When can we expect a published Ninja Hero setting? Something that will really mesh well with the asian bestiaries.

[Steve Long]

When can we expect a published Ninja Hero setting?

We don't have any plans at this time to publish an NH setting.

[Enforcer84]

We don't have any plans at this time to publish an NH setting.
Well get on it. :D

[Susano]

Well get on it. :D

Actually.... I have some ideas for some DH articles that will describe some campaign ideas that should make good use of NH and the ABs.

[Lord Liaden]

I figured that Mark Doherty's marvellous Sengoku (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/9529/Gaming_stuff/Sengoku/sengoku_front_page.html) campaign setting, and the "NanJing 1672" outline from Robyn Paterson's great WuXia Hero (http://www.geocities.com/rpatersonca/WuxiaHeroIndex.html) website, would both provide plenty of opportunities to use all of those books. :)

[Susano]

I figured that Mark Doherty's marvellous Sengoku (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/9529/Gaming_stuff/Sengoku/sengoku_front_page.html) campaign setting, and the "NanJing 1672" outline from Robyn Paterson's great WuXia Hero (http://www.geocities.com/rpatersonca/WuxiaHeroIndex.html) website, would both provide plenty of opportunities to use all of those books. :)

I have posted some comments on various manga that make for good NH settings here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=873874&postcount=44

None of them use much (if anything) in the way of Asian monsters, but you can always mix that in! :D My one intended DH article will be on the subject of the "ninja high school" setting, another will be on anime monster hunter settings (such as Hellsing, 3x3 Eyes, Ghost Sweeper Mikami and others).

[Steve]

Well, I plan to mine the new bestiaries for everything I can. I think they will be perfect for the Zen Team Reborn (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38157) campaign I plan to run soon. :D

[Susano]

Well, I plan to mine the new bestiaries for everything I can. I think they will be perfect for the Zen Team Reborn (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38157) campaign I plan to run soon. :D

Wow! That's some cool stuff! You have all that in a .doc file?

Oh, and check out the Fu Schticks post for some possible Zen powers: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=875509&postcount=1

[Steve]

Wow! That's some cool stuff! You have all that in a .doc file?

Oh, and check out the Fu Schticks post for some possible Zen powers: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=875509&postcount=1

Yes, I have it in a .doc file. It was a bear to copy and paste it into the boards and have it format anything close to what I had. I can email it to you when I get home from work. Any comments or suggestions from Susano-senpai will be appreciated. :D

[Duke]

I can't wait to see the stats on the Beasties I drew! Many are pretty damn interesting and I had never heard of in my life before.

[Susano]

For those who have UMM, the kitsune and tanuki were taken from the AB books. So if you liked the detail in those, then you'll almost certainly like the rest of the AB material.

[Steve Long]

For those who have UMM, the kitsune and tanuki were taken from the AB books. So if you liked the detail in those, then you'll almost certainly like the rest of the AB material.

In point of fact, Michael isn't entirely correct. The UMM kitsune for certain, and I believe the UMM tanuki as well, are slimmed down versions of what appears in the ABs -- they have a lot of details and options removed. If you liked what you saw in UMM, get ready for even more fascinating information about these beasties!... and many more like 'em. :hex:

[Susano]

In point of fact, Michael isn't entirely correct. The UMM kitsune for certain, and I believe the UMM tanuki as well, are slimmed down versions of what appears in the ABs -- they have a lot of details and options removed. If you liked what you saw in UMM, get ready for even more fascinating information about these beasties!... and many more like 'em. :hex:

Heh... very true. In fact both entries direct the reader to AB Volume (errr... 2?) for more information.

[Lightray]

In point of fact, Michael isn't entirely correct. The UMM kitsune for certain, and I believe the UMM tanuki as well, are slimmed down versions of what appears in the ABs -- they have a lot of details and options removed. If you liked what you saw in UMM, get ready for even more fascinating information about these beasties!
Good grief. How much more could there be to know about tanuki scrota?

No. Wait. Don't answer that question.

[Steve Long]

No. Wait. Don't answer that question.

Don't worry, I have no such intention. Otherwise this might turn into Brokeback Mt. Fuji, and none of us want that. :eek:

Though in truth I was referring more to the kitsune, about which AB2 has a lot of data, options, variants, etc. that I left out of UMM.

[Susano]

Good grief. How much more could there be to know about tanuki scrota?

No. Wait. Don't answer that question.

*checks tanuki character sheet on hard drive*

The AB should have some optional powers and two alternate forms. Nothing to major to scare you.

BTW -- a friend in Australia said he managed to weird out an entire gaming store by reading the descriptions of the tanuki's powers in UMM. :D

[FenrisUlf]

Though in truth I was referring more to the kitsune, about which AB2 has a lot of data, options, variants, etc. that I left out of UMM.

Cultural variants like the kumiho (Korean), huli jing (China), and such?

The more I hear about the AB, the more I'm looking forward to getting a copy.

[Susano]

Cultural variants like the kumiho (Korean), huli jing (China), and such?

The more I hear about the AB, the more I'm looking forward to getting a copy.

I figure it's okay to say "yes," so, yes, there is templates for the hu-hsien, huli jing, hui mei, kumiho, and goo mi ho. Not to mention the names of about dozen variant kitsune.

The file's 9 pages in Appleworks, using 12 point Time New Roman and 1" margins. Longest file in the Japanese section (the oni was second). Actually, a number of 8-9 page character sheets were submitted to Steve -- in all cases this was due to the amount of regional variants listed with each primary entry. For example, there are roughly 16 regional variants of the Ch'i-Lin (a.k.a. the kirin -- which is nothing like the old AD&D kirin...).

Steve requested the most complete book of its type... I'd like to think I succeeded. :D

[Susano]

BTW -- I'd like to take this moment to thank Steve for doing a wonderful job editing my material. Looking through the original files I've spotted wordings and phrases that are making me cringe, thinking "why did I write that???" (not to mention still more misspellings...). But when I looked into UMM it was all good.

Thanks, Steve!

[FenrisUlf]

I figure it's okay to say "yes," so, yes, there is templates for the hu-hsien, huli jing, hui mei, kumiho, and goo mi ho. Not to mention the names of about dozen variant kitsune.

The file's 9 pages in Appleworks, using 12 point Time New Roman and 1" margins. Longest file in the Japanese section (the oni was second). Actually, a number of 8-9 page character sheets were submitted to Steve -- in all cases this was due to the amount of regional variants listed with each primary entry. For example, there are roughly 16 regional variants of the Ch'i-Lin (a.k.a. the kirin -- which is nothing like the old AD&D kirin...).

Steve requested the most complete book of its type... I'd like to think I succeeded. :D

Sure sounds that way.

[Steve Long]

Thanks, Steve!

All part of a day's editorial work. ;)

And believe you me, FenrisUlf, if it's a fox, and it's Oriental, it's covered somewhere in the ABs. :thumbup:

[Susano]

All part of a day's editorial work. ;)

And believe you me, FenrisUlf, if it's a fox, and it's Oriental, it's covered somewhere in the ABs. :thumbup:

Well... not exactly... Hiromi Oshima isn't in the book. :p

[FenrisUlf]

Well... not exactly... Hiromi Oshima isn't in the book. :p

Who?

Maybe Steve should have said, "If it's a fox, and it's Oriental, and it's covered with fur, you'll find it in the book." :)

[Susano]

Who?

Japanese Playboy Playmate. Uhm... 90% of her pics aren't work safe.

[L. Marcus]

. . . I'm not at work . . .

[Susano]

. . . I'm not at work . . .

Google Image search should get you all you want then.

[L. Marcus]

. . . Okies . . .

Hey, apropos nothing at all, have you read Takehiko Inoue's Vagabond?

[Susano]

. . . Okies . . .

Hey, apropos nothing at all, have you read Takehiko Inoue's Vagabond?

Started to, but gave up when I got behind on the trades and saw it was up to volume 20 or so.

[L. Marcus]

I bought volume eight today . . . Clearly worth it. Almost on par with LW&C in my book.

[Susano]

I bought volume eight today . . . Clearly worth it. Almost on par with LW&C in my book.

LW&C???

[L. Marcus]

. . . Lone Wolf and Cub . . . Sorry. For some strange reason, I've made it a habit of making it an acronym.

[Susano]

. . . Lone Wolf and Cub . . . Sorry. For some strange reason, I've made it a habit of making it an acronym.

Ah... never read much of that either.

[Sketchpad]

BTW -- a friend in Australia said he managed to weird out an entire gaming store by reading the descriptions of the tanuki's powers in UMM. :D

Gotta say that I had a double-take when I read its description in the UMM ... followed immediately by a sharp pain in the lower regions as I tried to wrap my brain around a visual ;) Ow Mike ... Ow ;)

[Susano]

Gotta say that I had a double-take when I read its description in the UMM ... followed immediately by a sharp pain in the lower regions as I tried to wrap my brain around a visual ;) Ow Mike ... Ow ;)

The ABs have even worse stuff (IMO).

[Sketchpad]

The ABs have even worse stuff (IMO).
I'll make sure to get an ice pack when I get the books Mike ;)

[Steve Long]

I'll make sure to get an ice pack when I get the books

Note to self: have Tina add icepacks with a Hero logo to the Cafe Press store....

[Susano]

Note to self: have Tina add icepacks with a Hero logo to the Cafe Press store....

Hmm... considering some of the stuff in the book, maybe an airsickness bag?

:sick:

[Bazza]

Hmm... considering some of the stuff in the book, maybe an airsickness bag?

:sick: I found this on wikipedia, I'm sure you've seen it before


A common schoolyard song in Japan makes rather explicit reference to the tanuki anatomy:

Tan Tan Tanuki no kintama wa
Kaze mo nai no ni
Bura bura bura

Roughly translated, it means "Tanuki's testicles swing back and forth even when there is no wind blowing."

:eek:

[Susano]

I found this on wikipedia, I'm sure you've seen it before



:eek:

Nope, that's new to me.... :nonp:

[Labrat]

Any chance of us getting to see the Table of Contents as a pdf? I'm not sure if I need either of the AB's for what they're meant for, but for alien species, etc. I may pick them up.

What, exactly, is the policy of posting TOC's in the Free Stuff section? Might help promote sales...

[TheQuestionMan]

Any chance of us getting to see the Table of Contents as a pdf? I'm not sure if I need either of the AB's for what they're meant for, but for alien species, etc. I may pick them up.

What, exactly, is the policy of posting TOC's in the Free Stuff section? Might help promote sales...
I second the motion.

REP'd

QM

[AndyM]

In theory, the TOC is part of the free PDF preview we do of all our products. And - when I say "we do", what I mean to say is that "I should be doing" for all our products.

Ben should have a PDF preview of AB1 here later this week - so, watch this (or some other space).

Andy

[Susano]

In theory, the TOC is part of the free PDF preview we do of all our products. And - when I say "we do", what I mean to say is that "I should be doing" for all our products.

Ben should have a PDF preview of AB1 here later this week - so, watch this (or some other space).

Can't wait!

[Duke]

Well I got my copy of Asian Bestiary, Vol. One today and I must say I'm very impressed. I have not been able to read everything yet but I will soon enough!

Great work gang.